Could a 4 cap beat Lydia Ko?

[Frankensteins Monster]

1 minute ago, Obee said:

 

Most? Hell, do you know ANY 4-cappers who have won their club championship??? LOL

I do.

[mosesgolf]

24 minutes ago, Frankensteins Monster said:

I do.

And I know a lot of guys who can squat 400lbs  😉

[Frankensteins Monster]

37 minutes ago, mosesgolf said:

And I know a lot of guys who can squat 400lbs  😉

But seriously, I know a lot as well, in addition to a 4 handicap winning their club championship. Remember, most club championships are match play.

[TiScape]

47 minutes ago, mosesgolf said:

And I know a lot of guys who can squat 400lbs  😉

That’s all?! 😂

Edited April 7, 2021 by TiScape

[Long Shot]

1 hour ago, Frankensteins Monster said:

I do.

A Flight? 

[Frankensteins Monster]

8 minutes ago, Long Shot said:

A Flight? 

Championship flight.

[callawayjay]

You put a 4Hc at the 200 yard marker on every hole and Lydia plays the course from her tees and she still wins. 

[tsecor]

no

 

a 4 cap is just an 8 who had a good day.....lol

[cardoustie]

7 hours ago, cardia10 said:

I’d say a 4 person male team of scratch to 5 handicaps would do well to shoot 72 as best ball under tournament conditions. 

that is wrong, sorry

 

I can come with three buds that are 0 to 4 and get around in -14 ... at worst

 

The whole gist of my thread is sarcastic for those that are unaware of the history of golfwrx and 4 handicap threads

[cardoustie]

5 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

 

Just so both of you guys understand, this was a joke thread that Cardoustie started he is not legitimately asking if a 4 could beat Lydia Ko. There is a famous thread from 5-6 years ago that talked about 4 indexes versus LPGA players that ended up going like 100 pages long LOL...We still make jokes and reference it a lot

 

But to your comment above , if 4 players with indexes of 0-5 can't shoot a team best ball 72 at an LPGA course in tournament conditions they are lying about their handicaps! I do this every year in a 2 person best ball on a course that is 6700yds with a 74.5/140 rating in a qualifier

 

Just for reference my buddy and I (both 3 caps) won our 2 man scramble at 73.8/138/6900 last Fall at -11 .. and we were 10 under thru 12

 

Thanks for backing me up Jeff

[MtlJeff]

2 hours ago, Long Shot said:

A Flight? 

 

There are a LOT of country clubs in the Americas. I have seen 3 and 4 indexes win club championship A flights in both match play and stroke play. I was a member once of a club about 30 minutes north of Montreal, and after me the next lowest index was 3.0 or so. I switched clubs late in the year so did not play in the CC, the guy who won it was a 4.5 or so

 

My club now no one higher than scratch has won it in the past 10 years

 

Not every place is Florida or Arizona, bursting at the seems with talent. there's a lot of places a 3-4 can win

[MtlJeff]

3 minutes ago, cardoustie said:

 

Just for reference my buddy and I (both 3 caps) won our 2 man scramble at 73.8/138/6900 last Fall at -11 .. and we were 10 under thru 12

 

Thanks for backing me up Jeff

 

I'm here to help!

 

Just FYI i think he said "best ball" and not scramble. Which is a lot different

 

a 4-person scramble , if 4 guys with indexes of 0-5 shoot 72 they should actually be fed to Lions just on general principle. 

[cardoustie]

NOTE:  I am well aware no 4 cap could compete with Ko

 

I know a couple of high level tourney +3's that could ... but not many Am's

 

Background:  As a former college player and a guy with a lot of provincial and national am's and mid-am's under my belt (and having played with a lot of tour players) I am well aware of how Am's games stack up vs pro's .. both men's and ladies

 

I don't feel like explaining myself but this thread sort of derailed / went sideways, so there you go

[cardoustie]

3 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

 

There are a LOT of country clubs in the Americas. I have seen 3 and 4 indexes win club championship A flights in both match play and stroke play. I was a member once of a club about 30 minutes north of Montreal, and after me the next lowest index was 3.0 or so. I switched clubs late in the year so did not play in the CC, the guy who won it was a 4.5 or so

 

My club now no one higher than scratch has won it in the past 10 years

 

Not every place is Florida or Arizona, bursting at the seems with talent. there's a lot of places a 3-4 can win

 

I'm with Jeff again.  Must be the new lockdown announced 1 hour ago, all fired up!

 

We've had 3 caps win our club C's.  I was 4th last year as a 3 cap, and have been runner up 4 or 5 times in 17 years.

 

Last year, two triples and a double in round 2, lost to 2 college players and an Outlaw tour / mini tour guy.  8 shots back over 3 rounds

[cardoustie]

5 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

 

I'm here to help!

 

Just FYI i think he said "best ball" and not scramble. Which is a lot different

 

a 4-person scramble , if 4 guys with indexes of 0-5 shoot 72 they should actually be fed to Lions just on general principle. 

 

Whoopsy daisy.  yes 2 man best ball, -4 to -6 is very solid.  -8 wins provincials every year it seems

[Pinky5]

Wouldnt even get close even if played from the same tees. Same goes for any girl on tour I would imagine.

[dlygrisse]

I'm convinced you could beat her at being a club-Ho.  🙂

[TiScape]

28 minutes ago, cardoustie said:

NOTE:  I am well aware no 4 cap could compete with Ko

 

I know a couple of high level tourney +3's that could ... but not many Am's

 

Background:  As a former college player and a guy with a lot of provincial and national am's and mid-am's under my belt (and having played with a lot of tour players) I am well aware of how Am's games stack up vs pro's .. both men's and ladies

 

I don't feel like explaining myself but this thread sort of derailed / went sideways, so there you go

I know it’s some sort of on going joke that started before I came back. Makes me laugh a little after every new response knowing you were being ‘tongue n cheek’. Haha 🤷🏼‍♂️

[cardia10]

Yes, I'm talking best ball, not a scramble. Our club has a former D1 golfer, currently +4.4 with a low handicap of +5.7. The 125 LPGA pro plays their money game every week with an older former D1 golfer, currently a +4.9 and it is pretty evenly matched. She gives up a ton of distance at our course but at Valhalla which was firm and fast, her average drive probably rolled out to 275. She only missed one fairway there.  I bet $10,000 any day of the week Ko isn't losing to a 3 or a scratch playing by the rules of golf, not these country club roll it around and gimmies. I'd put my lady up against any scratch at a LPGA length and conditioned course and she plays around 4 LPGA tournaments a year now. Rating and Slope of our home course is 74.4, 134 playing 7,055 yards or 72.3, 131 at 6,602. 

Edited April 8, 2021 by cardia10

[Shilgy]

7 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Be careful.  That +6.5 was most likely a woman's handicap index (in fact almost impossible not to be).  Mixing the index basis brings confusion to the discussion.  Most of the time in these idiotic threads we try and stick to the men's index basis to keep it easy for all you guys. 😉

Gee I don’t know TP. +6.5 women’s cap would be scratch men’s at most courses.  So she is certainly better than that. Post another 62 and she could get to +6.5 men’s. In her prime she may have been as low as +6.5 men’s cap for a stretch.

[ThinkingPlus]

19 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Gee I don’t know TP. +6.5 women’s cap would be scratch men’s at most courses.  So she is certainly better than that. Post another 62 and she could get to +6.5 men’s. In her prime she may have been as low as +6.5 men’s cap for a stretch.

I agree that +6.5 women's would be the worst she could be most of the time.  However, +6.5 men's is a tough ask.  Most men's ratings at LPGA venues hover between 71 and 73.  That implies her best 8/20 would need to average 65 once you include slope.  She's good, but that would be an historic stretch.  Not impossible, but certainly unlikely.

[Shilgy]

42 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

I agree that +6.5 women's would be the worst she could be most of the time.  However, +6.5 men's is a tough ask.  Most men's ratings at LPGA venues hover between 71 and 73.  That implies her best 8/20 would need to average 65 once you include slope.  She's good, but that would be an historic stretch.  Not impossible, but certainly unlikely.

That was pretty much what I was trying to convey. I’m not sure she ever got as bad as +6.5 ladies and +6.5 men’s would have been after a real hot streak or not at all.

[Strategery]

Ignoring an extreme hot man + cold Lydia combo, 4 cap man is not beating Lydia from any tee. I think scratch man on a long course starts to get interesting but does not get us quite there, but +2 man would be nearly equal. No idea what happens from women's tees, but a 120mph swing speed man would be near the green on par 4's.

 

Don't think +2 man cap is something exotic. There are tons of juniors at that level, then add a handful from every home course, then add in virtually all college players, etc, etc.

[chasethebirdie]

No chance. Even if playing from the same tees the LPGA players are technically much better and are so precise.

[mosesgolf]

9 hours ago, cardoustie said:

that is wrong, sorry

 

I can come with three buds that are 0 to 4 and get around in -14 ... at worst

 

The whole gist of my thread is sarcastic for those that are unaware of the history of golfwrx and 4 handicap threads

Perhaps you are confusing scramble vs best score from each hole?

Big difference.  Scramble yes not best ball score where each person is playing their own ball and you're taking best score from one of the 4. 

[cardoustie]

20 hours ago, dlygrisse said:

I'm convinced you could beat her at being a club-Ho.  🙂

 

she'd have no chance. I'd crush her

 

5 clubs at my fitter right now.  The day after I got off my 14 day quarantine

 

With some irons sets getting graphite in the hopper

Edited April 8, 2021 by cardoustie

[cardoustie]

10 hours ago, mosesgolf said:

Perhaps you are confusing scramble vs best score from each hole?

Big difference.  Scramble yes not best ball score where each person is playing their own ball and you're taking best score from one of the 4. 

YES I am aware of the differences, I misread it, and corrected it above

[cardoustie]

4 man best ball .. circling back

Me and two other 3 hcaps and a plus 2.

Guaranteed we are -7 at worst and as low as -14 

[Obee]

31 minutes ago, cardoustie said:

4 man best ball .. circling back

Me and two other 3 hcaps and a plus 2.

Guaranteed we are -7 at worst and as low as -14 

 

So here's how I figured it:

 

At an LPGA venue like Wilshire Country Club for the upcoming (April 21) Hugel LA Open, 4 true scratch (~+1 to 1) are going to each average 2 - 4 birdies per round on an LPGA course, so as a group, they will make 8 to 16 birdies. They will likely have not a single bogey on the card because ... there are four of them.

 

Depending on how the birdies line up and how many times they "top" each other, I would expect to see scores of, at worst, 69, and at best 60 to 62. Most days I would expect between -5 and -8 on a LPGA set-up.

 

But if we switch that to four 4-cappers, I would expect maybe a bogey or two or three on the card and fewer birdies, obviously, so I would put the scoring at: 72 at worst, and 65 or 66 at best. A bit lower if there were almost no birdies that topped each other, of course.

[Torontogolfaddict]

Watch this video, you will know how good they are! There is English subtitle.

Danielle Kang 6 under in 9 hole.

Edited April 13, 2021 by Torontogolfaddict