Could a 4 cap beat Lydia Ko?

[stingerfade]

On 4/9/2021 at 10:05 AM, driveandputtmachine said:

There's rounds with your friends, then there's rounds in a MGA event, then there's club championship, then there's interclub play, then there are city tourneys, then state, then regional am, then college, then US am, then small tour, then mini tour, then KFT, then Top level events, then WGC, then majors, then Ryder cup.  President's cup is in there probably above WGC and below majors I imagine.

 

This is in order of how nervous and difficult tournaments get.  I played in all up to top level (Nike was the KFT back then and only played in two).  In each level your handicap goes up by 1 roughly for most players.  Having known and knowing a few players that had played events above me I will stand by my rankings and what they do to a golfer.

 

If you don't understand this then you have never played in these events and yes this is a real thing.

 

Cue the folks who don't get nervous in tournaments bashing me, but Tiger Woods said he gets nervous in events, if you don't then you are either a liar or a liar.

 

I know @cardoustie made the thread as a joke, but the number of people that responded that think a 4 even stands a chance against a LPGA player is crazy.  I caddied in a Symetra event here in Atlanta a few years back, and no 4 handicap is beating any of those ladies I saw either. 

MGA events should be higher on the list 🙂

Edited April 21, 2021 by stingerfade

[stingerfade]

52 minutes ago, stingerfade said:

MGA events should be higher on the list 🙂

Seriously the Ike or the Hebron on Bethpage black is a little tougher than your club championship!

[MUNIGRIT]

I dont think there is anyone on the forum that could beat her. However there are plenty that think they know what she should do with her game/swing and have wrote her off.

Edited April 21, 2021 by MUNIGRIT

[SPIF]

2 hours ago, MUNIGRIT said:

I dont think there is anyone on the forum that could beat her. However there are plenty that think they know what she should do with her game/swing and have wrote her off.

 

I get your point, but there are far more accomplished golfers on here than you probably are aware of.  The ones who are would not need to anonymously post about how they're better than Lydia Ko, though!

[heavy_hitter]

2 hours ago, MUNIGRIT said:

I dont think there is anyone on the forum that could beat her. However there are plenty that think they know what she should do with her game/swing and have wrote her off.

 

I guarantee you there is more than one male on the forums that can beat her.  In fact, I would say there are hundreds, plural, that are on these forums that can beat her.  They may not post, but they lurk.  There are D1, D2, D3, JUCO, NAIA players that read these forums, and they will beat her.  In fact, there are Junior Males on these forums that will beat her.

 

 

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

I guarantee you there is more than one male on the forums that can beat her.  In fact, I would say there are hundreds, plural, that are on these forums that can beat her.  They may not post, but they lurk.  There are D1, D2, D3, JUCO, NAIA players that read these forums, and they will beat her.  In fact, there are Junior Males on these forums that will beat her.

 

 

Kudos to them then.....if there are hundreds that can do better than -28 for four rounds at 6400 yards.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Shilgy

[Obee]

A buddy just had a nice money match with a current LPGAer with over $5 million in career earnings. Two +2 ams versus a veteran pro-turned reinstated am and the LPGAer. 6900, 72.8/130.

 

These kinds matches happen all the time. We don't need to guess.

 

Scores were 69, 70, 71, 72.

[Obee]

5 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Kudos to them then.....if there are hundreds that can do better than -28 for four rounds at 6400 yards.

That's DEEEEEEP!!!

[Shilgy]

15 minutes ago, Obee said:

A buddy just had a nice money match with a current LPGAer with over $5 million in career earnings. Two +2 ams versus a veteran pro-turned reinstated am and the LPGAer. 6900, 72.8/130.

 

These kinds matches happen all the time. We don't need to guess.

 

Scores were 69, 70, 71, 72.

Those were hers?

[Obee]

Just now, Shilgy said:

Those were hers?

One round. She was the 72. 

[Shilgy]

11 minutes ago, Obee said:

One round. She was the 72. 

Gotcha.

 

This thread, like most, morphs so often it’s hard to keep track. The title was “could a 4 handicap beat Lydia”. Which was a sarcasm meter posted by @cardoustieand many failed lol.

 

The 4 never had a chance even when Ko was playing her worst.  Now we have guys saying there are hundreds of guys beating her and like I said earlier kudos to them if they can. Even that I take issue with because there are not many “d3 juco and naia” players that are going -28 for four rounds at 6400.  So that becomes another “how often” thread like the break 85 thread.  Can they beat her? Sure. But I really doubt there are hundreds that would have the last few weeks with the -28 following the 62 in the final round of the ANA.

 I wonder how many of those “hundreds” could go 100 holes in tournament conditions with one freakin’ bogey? 🙄 
 

Edited to add...

All that said she is + 4 after 7 so what was the consensus with the 4 handicap? 😆

Edited April 21, 2021 by Shilgy

[Obee]

On 4/21/2021 at 3:07 PM, Shilgy said:

Gotcha.

 

This thread, like most, morphs so often it’s hard to keep track. The title was “could a 4 handicap beat Lydia”. Which was a sarcasm meter posted by @cardoustieand many failed lol.

 

The 4 never had a chance even when Ko was playing her worst.  Now we have guys saying there are hundreds of guys beating her and like I said earlier kudos to them if they can. Even that I take issue with because there are not many “d3 juco and naia” players that are going -28 for four rounds at 6400.  So that becomes another “how often” thread like the break 85 thread.  Can they beat her? Sure. But I really doubt there are hundreds that would have the last few weeks with the -28 following the 62 in the final round of the ANA.

 I wonder how many of those “hundreds” could go 100 holes in tournament conditions with one freakin’ bogey? 🙄 

 

Oh totally. 

 

I just don't like when people make crazy claims (not that you are, of course) about nobody being able to beat an LPGA pro. It happens all the time with players who don't play golf for a living. Anyone who can shoot in the 60's on a legit course of over, say, 6700 yards in a tournament, and has done so more than once, can, on any given day, beat literally any LPGA player.

 

Now, over 4 days? Very, very few can except serious college players (D1, of course, but also the best of JuCo, NAIA, Div 2, Div 3); serious high school players and juniors, and serious mid-ams/seniors. And even then, only sometimes, obviously.

 

Also, if we're talking head-to-head, for $$$, it becomes even tougher for the non-pro because ... they're not a pro. LOL. 🙂

 

There's one legendary story here in SoCal of a guy who's just a good scratch(ish) golfer -- maybe at his very best a +1.0 -- challenging a SoCal LPGA player to a money match. Things got going pretty heavily and next thing you know they are playing for a bunch of cash, with people backing her, etc. She crushed him. Of the four rounds, I think two were pretty close, but the other two she killed him. Ended up beating him by 10 shots over the four rounds, or thereabouts.

Edited April 26, 2021 by Obee
Edited to add actual difference in score, 10 shots.

[MUNIGRIT]

2 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

I guarantee you there is more than one male on the forums that can beat her.  In fact, I would say there are hundreds, plural, that are on these forums that can beat her.  They may not post, but they lurk.  There are D1, D2, D3, JUCO, NAIA players that read these forums, and they will beat her.  In fact, there are Junior Males on these forums that will beat her.

 

 

Hundreds lol. When they go 100 holes in tournament golf and only have 1 bogey with about 39 birdies plus all the eagles let me know.

[cardoustie]

That -28 was on a wide open track with 60 yards of roll, it played about 5800, let’s be honest

 

Still a lot of birdies though

 

I have a few pals that would have a great match with her .. but these are +3 travelling tourney caps that win state and provincial events

 

[Argonne69]

Oy. Lydia is +6 after 11 holes. 4 cappers, now's your big chance. 

 

[Obee]

1 hour ago, Obee said:

 

Oh totally. 

 

I just don't like when people make crazy claims (not that you are, of course) about nobody being able to beat an LPGA pro. It happens all the time with players who don't play golf for a living. Anyone who can shoot in the 60's on a legit course of over, say, 6700 yards in a tournament, and has done so more than once, can, on any given day, beat literally any LPGA player.

 

Now, over 4 days? Very, very few can except serious college players (D1, of course, but also the best of JuCo, NAIA, Div 2, Div 3); serious high school players and juniors, and serious mid-ams/seniors. And even then, only sometimes, obviously.

 

Also, if we're talking head-to-head, for $$$, it becomes even tougher for the non-pro because ... they're not a pro. LOL. 🙂

 

There's one legendary story here in SoCal of a guy who's just a good scratch(ish) golfer -- maybe at his very best a +1.0 -- challenging a SoCal LPGA player to a money match. Things got going pretty heavily and next thing you know they are playing for a bunch of cash, with people backing her, etc. She crushed him. Of the four rounds, I think two were pretty close, but the other two she killed him. Ended up beating him by 16 shots over the four rounds, or something like that. Trying to get the details.

 

Got the deets on the bet. It was 10 strokes over four days she beat him by. He was a legit 0 to +2. Just looked him up. Currently +0.9. LI for the last 12 months is +1.6.

[Aviador Naval]

4 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

Oy. Lydia is +6 after 11 holes. 4 cappers, now's your big chance. 

 

 

Rumor has it that she got her @$$ handed to her in the Pro-Am by a 70 yr old GolfWrx 4 hdcp and lost her mojo.  Foley out - Rotella in.

Edited April 22, 2021 by Aviador Naval

[heavy_hitter]

14 hours ago, MUNIGRIT said:

Hundreds lol. When they go 100 holes in tournament golf and only have 1 bogey with about 39 birdies plus all the eagles let me know.

 

I don't think you or many others understand.

Lydia Ko was the number 1 player female player in the world when she was 17. Collin Morikawa, Victor Hovland, Matt Wolff, Will Zalatoris were the same age or younger. Do you really think she was better than them?   To believe she was better than them in the same time frame is nonsense.  Furthermore, over that same time there were 100's of male junior golfers that would beat her then and 13-18 year olds that would beat her now.  They play a 6400 yard course and it is already a par 68 for them.  Play back at 7000 and she is done.

Same reasons why a 15U boy's soccer team beat the USA National Women's Soccer Team.

Over 300 HS boy's run better times than female US Olympic Track Athletes.

A HS boy's basketball team at the top end will beat WNBA Basketball teams.  All D1 men's college teams will beat a WNBA team.

Yet, you think that the college players and the juniors that are at the top of their game won't beat the LPGA women? That is nonsense.

 

Edited April 22, 2021 by heavy_hitter

[Bad9]

Just now, heavy_hitter said:

Yet, you think that the college players and the juniors that are at the top of their game won't beat the LPGA women? That is nonsense.

 

 

Yet most of these guys aren't 4hc's either.

[heavy_hitter]

2 minutes ago, Bad9 said:

 

Yet most of these guys aren't 4hc's either.

That wasn't from this poster's statement.  He said "I dont think there is anyone on the forum that could beat her. However there are plenty that think they know what she should do with her game/swing and have wrote her off."

 

I agree there are no 4 HC's that can't beat her.  However, there are hundreds of males (Collegiate, Mini Tour, Junior Males) that frequent this site that will beat her.

[mosesgolf]

13 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

That wasn't from this poster's statement.  He said "I dont think there is anyone on the forum that could beat her. However there are plenty that think they know what she should do with her game/swing and have wrote her off."

 

I agree there are no 4 HC's that can't beat her.  However, there are hundreds of males (Collegiate, Mini Tour, Junior Males) that frequent this site that will beat her.

If my aunt had a mustache then....................

[Shilgy]

39 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

That wasn't from this poster's statement.  He said "I dont think there is anyone on the forum that could beat her. However there are plenty that think they know what she should do with her game/swing and have wrote her off."

 

I agree there are no 4 HC's that can't beat her.  However, there are hundreds of males (Collegiate, Mini Tour, Junior Males) that frequent this site that will beat her.

I would agree with your statement if the last sentence was “could beat her”. 

[farmer]

We have almost reached the point of "Can a PGA Tour player beat Lydia?".  Far, far away from the 4 hdcp premise.  No, he cannot, unless she's drunk or injured.

[DON SVO]

Going back to the original premise, which was beaten like a dead horse in previous threads, this whole discussion is ludicrous. 

 

I'll say this just once, because I think it holds so much merit: how many 4 caps do you know that can just rain down birdies and limit bogeys? Seriously. They can't. That's why they have a -4 cap and they'll continue to have a -4 cap and course length won't matter: they throw a few shots into the woods every round, they don't hit it close, their short games leave a lot to be desired... it's why they're a -4 and not a 0 or a plus. I feel like I am taking crazy pills when these threads come back up and people keep perpetuating the insanity of the discussion. 

 

That all being said, continue the discussion. I love train wrecks, red herrings, and spurious correlations!

[heavy_hitter]

1 hour ago, Shilgy said:

I would agree with your statement if the last sentence was “could beat her”. 

 

1 hour ago, Shilgy said:

I would agree with your statement if the last sentence was “could beat her”. 

I can dig that.

[SPIF]

22 hours ago, MUNIGRIT said:

Hundreds lol. When they go 100 holes in tournament golf and only have 1 bogey with about 39 birdies plus all the eagles let me know.

You need to play with better golfers, and understand that the courses they play at are never 6400, wide open, with extremely firm fairways.

 

Lydia is a phenomenal golfer, and anyone who disagrees is disagreeing with quantifiable data.  That does not maker her better than world-class or near world-class male golfers.

Edited April 22, 2021 by SPIF

[mosesgolf]

14 hours ago, SPIF said:

You need to play with better golfers, and understand that the courses they play at are never 6400, wide open, with extremely firm fairways.

 

Lydia is a phenomenal golfer, and anyone who disagrees is disagreeing with quantifiable data.  That does not maker her better than world-class or near world-class male golfers.

I think she is. Define world class?  World class amateur?  How many of those +2 to +4 is going to shoot -28 under from 6400 yards over 4 rounds?  Don't forget Lydia shot 62 at Mission Hills on the final round prior to Hawaii.  Even playing from the same tees how many are shooting those scores?

[heavy_hitter]

1 hour ago, mosesgolf said:

I think she is. Define world class?  World class amateur?  How many of those +2 to +4 is going to shoot -28 under from 6400 yards over 4 rounds?  Don't forget Lydia shot 62 at Mission Hills on the final round prior to Hawaii.  Even playing from the same tees how many are shooting those scores?

Seriously, you need to get around better golfers.   Junior males at the top of their game are playing at a +5 and lower.  College males are playing even lower than that.   I am talking 13 year old kids driving it 300 and shooting low rounds from 7000 yards. You put that same kid on a 6400 yd course and they are going to beat her.  Just this weekend in Florida a 16 year old went -9 over two days from 6900 yards on a course where he wasn't reaching the par 5's in two.  Put him at 6400 and he is reaching them all.  Not only is he reaching all the Par 5's, he is driving or at least chipping and putting on Par 4's.  There are hundreds of Junior males alone that would beat Lydia.  Take the kids from an AJGA invitational, Sage Invitational, Gator Invitational and it wouldn't even be close.

[SPIF]

5 hours ago, mosesgolf said:

I think she is. Define world class?  World class amateur?  How many of those +2 to +4 is going to shoot -28 under from 6400 yards over 4 rounds?  Don't forget Lydia shot 62 at Mission Hills on the final round prior to Hawaii.  Even playing from the same tees how many are shooting those scores?

You keep on doubling/tripling down on anecdotes.  That's no different than me saying "how many times has Lydia shot 59 on a 7100 yard course, because junior golfer xxxxxxxx did it last week".

 

World class amateurs are better than she is.  I would bet hundreds on this site, maybe thousands, would routinely beat her in straight up competition.  That's not a knock on her exceptional abilities.  It's just an objective observation.  

 

Seriously, try to get a game with a high level male golfer sometime.  It will be eye-opening, and you'll realize you play a completely different game then they do.  

[SPIF]

5 hours ago, mosesgolf said:

I think she is. Define world class?  World class amateur?  How many of those +2 to +4 is going to shoot -28 under from 6400 yards over 4 rounds?  Don't forget Lydia shot 62 at Mission Hills on the final round prior to Hawaii.  Even playing from the same tees how many are shooting those scores?

 

On any given day?  Way more than you seem to think.