Very mind bending putter lesson

[philsRHman]

I had the first putter lesson of my life this week, with a highly acclaimed coach. I still can’t wrap my head around two key points. For context, I am a 3 handicap and have always been very much a feel putter. I’ve long struggled to get my eyes over the ball, and I think I’ve gotten (and the lesson proved it) too far away. Alignment has always been a struggle for me, and for a very long time I putted with an 8802 until a fitter got me into a fang shape a few years ago, saying I’m SBST (although I feel I SBST’d the arc out of my stroke trying to compensate for the 8802 misses). 
 

I get the points my pro made about my posture (too slumped, not tilted at the waist) and getting closer over the ball. 
 

where I’m stumped is his guidance to lengthen my backstroke and shorten my follow through. I was always under the believe of equal length but longer forward to encourage acceleration. He said my acceleration and exaggerated follow through makes it too hard to control the face. And to think more of decelerating. I joked about how much I shout at Daniel Berger’s decel stroke and he said the guy has made a lot of money thst way. Basically he made it sound like this is the new school of thought, figured I’d see what others know.
 

I’ve been so twisted and tangled thst I haven’t hit a decent putt in 3-4 rounds especially inside 10 feet. But I think that’s just thinking of too much at once. Any thoughts on this accelerate idea? It’s just freaking me out to think one of my pure truths of golf might be wrongs. It’s like learning the laws of gravity were wrong all along!

[Hawkeye77]

8 minutes ago, philsRHman said:

I had the first putter lesson of my life this week, with a highly acclaimed coach. I still can’t wrap my head around two key points. For context, I am a 3 handicap and have always been very much a feel putter. I’ve long struggled to get my eyes over the ball, and I think I’ve gotten (and the lesson proved it) too far away. Alignment has always been a struggle for me, and for a very long time I putted with an 8802 until a fitter got me into a fang shape a few years ago, saying I’m SBST (although I feel I SBST’d the arc out of my stroke trying to compensate for the 8802 misses). 
 

I get the points my pro made about my posture (too slumped, not tilted at the waist) and getting closer over the ball. 
 

where I’m stumped is his guidance to lengthen my backstroke and shorten my follow through. I was always under the believe of equal length but longer forward to encourage acceleration. He said my acceleration and exaggerated follow through makes it too hard to control the face. And to think more of decelerating. I joked about how much I shout at Daniel Berger’s decel stroke and he said the guy has made a lot of money thst way. Basically he made it sound like this is the new school of thought, figured I’d see what others know.
 

I’ve been so twisted and tangled thst I haven’t hit a decent putt in 3-4 rounds especially inside 10 feet. But I think that’s just thinking of too much at once. Any thoughts on this accelerate idea? It’s just freaking me out to think one of my pure truths of golf might be wrongs. It’s like learning the laws of gravity were wrong all along!

I'm going to say reach back out to the coach, I'd imagine if you took a lesson he'd be open to feedback/questions and I think you'd get more out of it if you ask him.

 

I'm not up on all the mechanics of things but (someone will correct me if I'm wrong) I don't think people really do accelerate through the ball with the putter and trying to do that can cause problems.  I thought in good putters it was decelerating just before or at impact, and maybe best not to think about it, lol.

 

But I'd sure reach out to the coach.

[skraly]

I think the “accelerate the putting stroke” comes from two things.  One many amateurs do decelerate by taking too long a back swing and then quitting on impact.  So the mantra to accelerate more applies to that situation.  Secondly, todays greens are, for the most part, much faster than 20-30 years ago.  Today I would say that most good pros I see have an even speed through the putt.  Neither decelerating or accelerating.  I think he wants you to think “decelerate”  as a way to keep from accelerating.  I personally don’t like that thought.  But then I’m not a noted putting instructor.  If you don’t have a metronome app for your phone you might get one.  Experiment with different tempos to see which one best fits your personal rhythm.   The rhythm should be constant for all lengths of putts.  Keeping time with the metronome should even out your stroke nicely.

[tthomasgolfer605]

What's the length/lie on your putter? @philsRHman

[Hawkeye77]

2 minutes ago, NotThatGuyorAmI? said:

Take the advice of your teacher.  No need to reach out.  Just do what he says.

LOL, if he’s puzzled or wants to have a better understanding of what was meant of course he should talk to his coach.  “Just do it whether you understand it or not” —- probably not on any list of ways to improve. 

[SNIPERBBB]

If you're used to really slow greens, that kind of stroke might serve you well. But on fast greens or down severe slopes, id imagine makes for some interesting putts for you. 

 

Focusing on accel/decel probably isn't the best, I prefer to think of smooth. Just let the pendulum swing happen.

[philsRHman]

27 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

If you're used to really slow greens, that kind of stroke might serve you well. But on fast greens or down severe slopes, id imagine makes for some interesting putts for you. 

 

Focusing on accel/decel probably isn't the best, I prefer to think of smooth. Just let the pendulum swing happen.

This is a great point, I play mainly pretty slow public course greens. And when the rare instance comes up to play fast greens I struggle. I think the the exaggerated follow through is a product of trying to keep the putter moving toward the target, mainly on greens I really have to bang it. 
 

Appreciate all the feedback. I do think in this case it is a way of saying decel to stop so much accel.
 

On the specs question, I’m 33” and 2 flat. 
 

I did reach out and even the clarification didn’t help all that much. Going to schedule another session but at $200 a pop, I want to get the most of the time and don’t feel I’ve really worked on anything from last time. 

[GoTime]

Takes lesson from highly acclaimed coach, questions his methods and seeks opinions of random internet strangers

[GolfTurkey]

Your teacher is correct, accelerating the putter through impact is the putting equivalent of keeping your head down on the full swing i.e. the greatest myth.

 

The best putters have been shown on Puttlab etc. to have a zero acceleration or very slight decel through impact. Think about it, zero acceleration = max speed through impact = constant speed through impact. Accelerating = changing speed through impact, which one will be easier to judge distance?

Edited April 6, 2021 by GolfTurkey

[glk]

 

[philsRHman]

1 hour ago, GoTime said:

Takes lesson from highly acclaimed coach, questions his methods and seeks opinions of random internet strangers

Lol this is why I’m so stumped. One of those things you believe to be so true. And as I try to incorporate, I just feel so loosey goosey wiping at the ball. It’s such a foreign feeling. I trust the members here to give me exactly this kind of different way of thinking about it. It’s also a little easier to sit here thinking. In the heat of the moment, it’s a lot to think about during the lesson, I felt my mind racing trying to understand it all. 
 

 

[Shilgy]

As regards the bit of a pop and stop idea at contact.....

 

If you put a tee in ground just barely ahead of where contact with the ball would be....

would you feel the best way to be square at impact would be to have the intent of the putter to be continuing for another 5-6” down the line OR to tap that tee and stop at impact?

 

 

 

I urge you to try it. You will be surprised. More follow through may help speed control on long putts but not mid range and shorter putts.

[2bGood]

Really just posting as I want to see how this turns out.

 

As a 'feel' putter with a similar cap, I went down the rabbit hole of working on the technical parts of my stroke. I went from oscillating from Okay when I was cold to Amazing when hot, to being terrible when cold and good when hot. 

 

I had to clear out my head and go back to feeling the putt. 

 

[philsRHman]

1 hour ago, glk said:

 

Wow thank for this video. My god is this helpful, I feel like they recorded this just for my problem and understanding. It’s like my lesson identified my problem (the doc gives the diagnosis) and now this video gives me the visualization I need (the medicine, the therapy, whatever analogy).

[philsRHman]

Just broke out the putting mat just to feel this idea and holy crap was my follow through long! It took 15 practice strokes just to make it reasonably equal. The first few with a ball I like snedeker popping the ball, almost stopping at impact. But after another 10-15 it felt prettt natural. And oddly, I stopped feeling like I was twisting myself in a knot with grip, posture, etc. I can see where I might struggle with the “force” part because I can see a 6” back and hard force can roll much longer than 10” back and soft force. I need to think more about what that video says about feeling the forward energy. That’ll probably be easier on a green more than my 9’ mat. But I will fiddle and see here. 
 

thanks everyone. This really really clicked for me tonight. I suddenly feel better about getting that $200 diagnosis, and feel better working toward something before going back to get rechecked. 

[Asics10]

Maybe a different way of thinking about it might help. When you transition from backswing to downswing in a full swing, that acceleration causes the club face to open, and the shaft twist and droop. Would you want those same things happening to your putter (to a much lesser extent)? That accelerated change of direction causes the once square face at address to no longer be square because of the force placed on it.  

Edited April 6, 2021 by Asics10

[KMeloney]

The defending club champion at my club is a young guy (mid-late 20s?) who appears to take a long backstroke and decelerating forward stroke (that also seems a little "down" on the ball, too). He putts lights-out. Personally, I need to work on what the OP's instructor has told him. My thoughts of accelerating through the ball has led my backstroke to be short and quick, and I'm convinced I need to adopt this new approach.

[Soloman1]

How does the length of the stroke-post impact affect the ball? Is there some sort of steering mechanism in the putter head?

 

I heard years ago from a national teacher of the year that there is evidence a constant speed, or decelerating putting stroke through impact imparts a more accurate roll than an accelerating stroke. I didn't see the data, I just heard from him about it. 

 

Edited: meant to say "constant" or decelerating...

Edited April 6, 2021 by Soloman1

[SNIPERBBB]

I used to be a big chase the ball with the club head guy years ago. Worked fairly well with the putter I had at the time, center shafted taylormade...think it was a monte carlo, but had speed control issues at times.

[golfing_penguin]

So what they mean is the concept of putter-head acceleration/slight lag. Picture a boat going from reverse to forward. There's a slight continuation of backward motion before going forward engages (and the same to stop the boat). When the 'short follow-through' happens it lets the shaft swing freely through the ball so proper loft and a pendulum-based face angle are delivered at impact. Shoving the hands through with sharp acceleration could easily leave the face open or snapped closed as a manipulation

[dlygrisse]

Your instructor is technically correct.  Keep working at it, if it feels wrong it's probably correct.  You need "reps"  

[me05501]

46 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

How does the length of the stroke-post impact affect the ball? Is there some sort of steering mechanism in the putter head?

 

I heard years ago from a national teacher of the year that there is evidence a decelerating putting stroke through impact imparts a more accurate roll than an accelerating stroke. I didn't see the data, I just heard from him about it. 

 

It could certainly impact launch conditions, right? Promoting or preventing skidding off the face, for instance. 

[nitram]

Agree with Dylgrisse. Right now it's supposed to feel weird but in time will be your normal. Keep working on it.

[LeftDaddy]

I’ve learned that I have the same issue as the OP. For years I thought you were supposed to accelerate a bit through the ball. I’ve done some tempo training recently, and gotten some putting feedback. And the gist of it has been that I need a longer backswing and a shorter throughswing in order to not accelerate. It feels very weird and I haven’t been able to apply it on the course yet. I have too much built-in memory the other way, but I have been trying it as I practice. 
 

To the OP, I think it is supposed to help in 2 ways. The first and most obvious is speed control, especially on quick greens. The 2nd is to avoid delofting (and probably opening) the putter face due to shoving the handle forward with too much acceleration. 
 

Now they will tell me I’m supposed to decelerate my wedge shots too, lol. 

[SNIPERBBB]

46 minutes ago, LeftDaddy said:

 

 

Now they will tell me I’m supposed to decelerate my wedge shots too, lol. 

But it worked for John Daly

[philsRHman]

Great conversation, thanks everyone. What an a-ha moment I'm having. It's literally just one of those things I was so certain of, I never had any reason to question. But once I cracked that door open a bit, and started to think about it, it's totally 100% right. Now that I've gotten some reps indoors, I can absolutely see how and why it works so much better. A little odd that I couldn't wrap my head around it in person, but I guess the mix of the SAM Puttlab, being in a new setting, etc, and like literally hearing something I believed in my core was wrong. But now I think I'm on a path forward to break the old habit, like you guys said above.

 

Also, I will say there's a little bit of a "learn how to learn" curve. Almost all my "lessons" came reading the Little Red Book 30+ years ago, plus figuring it out as I went. I should have been more explicit that I needed one thing to think about and worry about. In hindsight, trying to fix the all at once, over every putt, that's a tough thing to do. But I can also see he wanted me to get my money's worth, which I appreciate.

[sethdavidsdad]

18 hours ago, philsRHman said:

I had the first putter lesson of my life this week, with a highly acclaimed coach. I still can’t wrap my head around two key points. For context, I am a 3 handicap and have always been very much a feel putter. I’ve long struggled to get my eyes over the ball, and I think I’ve gotten (and the lesson proved it) too far away. Alignment has always been a struggle for me, and for a very long time I putted with an 8802 until a fitter got me into a fang shape a few years ago, saying I’m SBST (although I feel I SBST’d the arc out of my stroke trying to compensate for the 8802 misses). 
 

I get the points my pro made about my posture (too slumped, not tilted at the waist) and getting closer over the ball. 
 

where I’m stumped is his guidance to lengthen my backstroke and shorten my follow through. I was always under the believe of equal length but longer forward to encourage acceleration. He said my acceleration and exaggerated follow through makes it too hard to control the face. And to think more of decelerating. I joked about how much I shout at Daniel Berger’s decel stroke and he said the guy has made a lot of money thst way. Basically he made it sound like this is the new school of thought, figured I’d see what others know.
 

I’ve been so twisted and tangled thst I haven’t hit a decent putt in 3-4 rounds especially inside 10 feet. But I think that’s just thinking of too much at once. Any thoughts on this accelerate idea? It’s just freaking me out to think one of my pure truths of golf might be wrongs. It’s like learning the laws of gravity were wrong all along!

I would bet he meant that you don't accelerator thru the ball. Think a lot of the old teaching was to accelerate the stroke on the way down. I was told to have the speed constant back and thru. Don't try to increase the speed on the way thru the hit. 

[darom86]

Who is the putting coach?  Check out the Putting Prescription book - all the answers are in it imho.

[Soloman1]

7 hours ago, me05501 said:

 

It could certainly impact launch conditions, right? Promoting or preventing skidding off the face, for instance. 

 

No.

 

It was a rhetorical question.

[Barfolomew]

It's a myth...... Never understood the idea that you need your eyes directly over the ball.  I use a 41" putter but not broomstick style just traditional style (very low lie about 60*) so the ball is far away from me and never had alignment issues..... I just point the alignment line on the putter wherever I need it to go and all good and play par golf, in fact one of my strengths is my targeting system as I call it.

 

Sometimes I'll cover up the alignment line with tape so I can practice using the perpendicular edge of the front of putter and no probs there not being directly over the ball, its a myth probably started by bad putters who have alignment issues whether they're directly over the ball or not lol

 

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by Barfolomew