Very mind bending putter lesson

[FullOfBrushMan]

23 hours ago, philsRHman said:

where I’m stumped is his guidance to lengthen my backstroke and shorten my follow through. I was always under the believe of equal length but longer forward to encourage acceleration. He said my acceleration and exaggerated follow through makes it too hard to control the face. And to think more of decelerating. I joked about how much I shout at Daniel Berger’s decel stroke and he said the guy has made a lot of money thst way. Basically he made it sound like this is the new school of thought, figured I’d see what others know.

 

Been in this boat.  Trust your coach.   He is right on the face angle control.  For me I would have open shoulders which would cause me to have an exacerbated open face due to a 60* toe hang putter.  On longer puts you can't really stop the follow through that much but the idea is still there.

 

The being said putting is very personal and a good coach would create a setup that is best for YOU and YOU alone.  Your eye line is what is best for you ... agree on the over the ball BS.

[philsRHman]

1 hour ago, FullOfBrushMan said:

Your eye line is what is best for you ... agree on the over the ball BS

 

I should note, he wasn’t getting my fixated on over the ball. We did an exercise to figure out where the ball was when my aim was the best. And we marked thst spot and he gave me a way to test that over time by marking a putter mirror. It was my rear eye a couple inches behind and inside the ball.
 

But I had gotten so far from the ball I couldn’t even see my eyes in the mirror at all. Then I’d overcompensate and be past the ball. It’s hard to believe I could be this broken a putter and still shoot in the mid 70s. He said we make up for a lot of flaws with hand-eye coordination and putter head manipulation. 

[philsRHman]

Took this out out onto a real putting green today and wow, what a difference in pace control and on putts 10’ and longer. But I found inside 5’ I need to work and get comfortable. 

[Golfah]

There is a video with Brad Faxon doing a clinic, and it's a long video, but at one point around 5 minutes he says:

 

Paraphrased: 

 

"Ben Crenshaw said whenever he is struggling with putting, he says he makes his stroke longer, make his follow through shorter and allows his head and knees move" .  

 

He discusses how weird this sounded to him and speaks through the reasoning.  Sounds pretty much what the OP is articulating.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsphF590gYc

[ej002]

Try doing the short follow through using a metronome.  It will come together after some practice.  You need to groove your tempo.

[philsRHman]

Got in 9 holes today. Dropped a 15’ Birdie on 2. Two more 6-8’ birdies on the par 5s. Only hiccup was a tricky 4’ par miss. From both distance and inside 10’ I felt great. Can’t remember the last time I was under par for 9 holes. Gives me the motivation to really keep working on it. 

[95124hacker]

In the Masters post game today, they showed Matsuyama on the putting green & the GC analyst mentioned how you still need to accelerate the putter head at contact even on fast greens like ANGC. Whatever works for you but I made some really long putts today by accelerating through the ball.

[MikeSierra]

Tried this yesterday on the practice green and am encouraged by the results. I've never had major putting woes but speed control was better by taking a longer than normal backswing followed by a smooth downswing and shorter follow through [shorter than backswing]. Didn't focus on decelerating through the ball but I've always had a longer follow through so I believe having to concentrate on shortening the follow through probably caused a minor decel.

[KMeloney]

The main thing from this thread that really helped me this past weekend was the idea of applying the same force on the forward swing that used to take the putter back. It made me concentrate on exactly what that means and feels like, and the result seems to be a more purposeful-but-"constant" stroke on the ball. 

 

 

[SNIPERBBB]

On 4/10/2021 at 10:51 PM, 95124hacker said:

In the Masters post game today, they showed Matsuyama on the putting green & the GC analyst mentioned how you still need to accelerate the putter head at contact even on fast greens like ANGC. Whatever works for you but I made some really long putts today by accelerating through the ball.

Those kind of greens, you cant get scared of the putt, leave the putter face open and watch as the ball goes away from the hole and keeps going and going and going...

[philsRHman]

5 hours ago, KMeloney said:

The main thing from this thread that really helped me this past weekend was the idea of applying the same force on the forward swing that used to take the putter back. It made me concentrate on exactly what that means and feels like, and the result seems to be a more purposeful-but-"constant" stroke on the ball. 

 

 

Agreed, this is still such a foreign concept it’s clearly going to take time. I followed my great putting nine with a ho hum 18 where my lag putting was OK but my 3-7’ putts were way off, everything missing on the pull side. Could have been anything—ball position, grip, alignment. I have a long way to get where I can self diagnose on the fly. Also, worth noting the greens I putted poorly were significantly slower. 

[iteachgolf]

On 4/10/2021 at 10:51 PM, 95124hacker said:

In the Masters post game today, they showed Matsuyama on the putting green & the GC analyst mentioned how you still need to accelerate the putter head at contact even on fast greens like ANGC. Whatever works for you but I made some really long putts today by accelerating through the ball.

The analyst is clueless.  Zero great putters are actually accelerating the putter head at contact.  Literally zero

[cardoustie]

All really bad putters I have seen have too short a back stroke and/or a stabby quick accelerated move at the ball .. and sometimes some dramatic overextension down the line as an added bonus

 

Eyes inside the ball

putter moves inside to inside 

Long and smooth backstroke

 

Some crazy parallels to full swing issues ... 

 

 

[dodger]

I have putted this way ever since watching Crenshaw in a playoff with David Graham in the 1979 PGA. I can see no reason why feeling the clubhead accelerate after impact would be helpful. Short backswings get yippy. When I putt poorly, longer backswing and shorter follow thru always works.

[philsRHman]

Happy update here. A few months later, I just finished as top seed (by 3 shots) in a county amateur 36 hole stroke play. My putting was fantastic in the 6-40’ range. Inside 6’ still struggling with pace/confidence so while it wasn’t a disaster, there were several makeable putts I couldn’t marry the speed and line. I made several from 15-20’ and my lag putting was excellent, tons of 3-6” tap ins. 
 

At this point, with some hindsight, I think the best part of the lesson was improving my posture, I’m much less hunched. And I’ve taken to heart the 50-50 backstroke to forward stroke. 
 

I still need to crack to code on those 3- 6’ where I feel I should be making 85+ Percent (maybe my expectations are too high) but I probably missed half a dozen at that distance. I still shot 77-74, but I struck the ball so well and hit so many greens it could have been at least a couple shots better if I can button up those short ones. 

[indianagolf2]

Why are you freaking out ?? You should communicate back and forth with instructor, rather then Just listening. How much was he an hour ?? 

[tatertot]

There is more than 1 effective way to putt ... although some golf pros only teach 1 way and will shoehorn everyone into that way.

 

There are 2 paths for improving your putting ...

 

1. Find a pro who is willing to work with what you've got to make it the best it can be

 

2. Learn and technique and follow in 100% without looking back

 

Typically, a mix of the 2 is a recipe for disaster.

[philsRHman]

12 minutes ago, indianagolf2 said:

Why are you freaking out ?? You should communicate back and forth with instructor, rather then Just listening. How much was he an hour ?? 

Not freaking, sorry if I gave that impression, I’m happy but still focusing on where I need to improve. Lesson was $200 so I haven’t been racing to get back especially since I’ve been so slammed with life. I’ll probably set up a video check in soon (much less expensive but no SAM obviously).

[indianagolf2]

Why don't u take a aimpoint express clinic lesson...Google for locations. Will help green reading 

[bladehunter]

Op.  Try this thought.  Put a dot on the ball. Or pick out a dimple on the back of the ball.  Try to think “ hit “ that dimple or dot.  Sounds to me like you’re in the “ make a stroke and let the ball get in the way “ camp.  To me that doesn’t work.  I only think strike the ball.  And second thought is keep the putter head low through and after impact. As I Tend to come up on it.  This to me shoikd stop the long follow through. If you get used to hitting it , you’re going to not feel the need to flow 8 inches past the ball.  

[naval2006]

On 4/15/2021 at 1:39 PM, dodger said:

I have putted this way ever since watching Crenshaw in a playoff with David Graham in the 1979 PGA. I can see no reason why feeling the clubhead accelerate after impact would be helpful. Short backswings get yippy. When I putt poorly, longer backswing and shorter follow thru always works.

Crenshaw has been my role model for putting most of my amateur years.  If you go back longer than average the club will naturally slow down a bit through the ball and the fininsh will always be shorter than the backwswing.  It happens naturally, but it's a feel move, And the arch back and through, but especially back, also happens naturally.  It's a "soft" swing and you don't think too much before you do it, you just go smooth back and through.  And on lag putts your legs follow the club, you never attempt any countermovement, just flow back and forth.  I don't see that putting style on tv anymore I think.  

[MelloYello]

13 hours ago, philsRHman said:

Happy update here. A few months later, I just finished as top seed (by 3 shots) in a county amateur 36 hole stroke play. My putting was fantastic in the 6-40’ range. Inside 6’ still struggling with pace/confidence so while it wasn’t a disaster, there were several makeable putts I couldn’t marry the speed and line. I made several from 15-20’ and my lag putting was excellent, tons of 3-6” tap ins. 
 

At this point, with some hindsight, I think the best part of the lesson was improving my posture, I’m much less hunched. And I’ve taken to heart the 50-50 backstroke to forward stroke. 
 

I still need to crack to code on those 3- 6’ where I feel I should be making 85+ Percent (maybe my expectations are too high) but I probably missed half a dozen at that distance. I still shot 77-74, but I struck the ball so well and hit so many greens it could have been at least a couple shots better if I can button up those short ones. 

 

Glad to hear things are working out for you! 

 

I'm definitely an awkward putter myself. I've played for about 12 years but I've spent virtually all my time working on ball-striking so my putting is certainly not a strength. I rarely make anything and routinely struggle with bad speed. It's not uncommon to find myself totally guessing at times. 

 

I sometimes struggle falling into the habit of making that short, stabby stroke that's been brought up. Still, that works well at short range where we hit the majority of our putts. So as sins go, over-accelerating is still a lot better than decelerating! It seems that decelerating is a high-handicap problem where as accelerating is more a low-handicap problem where the ideal is to try and eliminate acceleration on anything outside of a tap-in.  

 

I think the tendency to accelerate the putter partly comes from having such a "hit" impulse instilled from the full swing. I don't think it's any surprise that many of the better ball-strikers struggle with putting: Lee Westwood, Rory McIlroy, Michelle Wie, Lexi Thompson, etc. I think even Ben Hogan was a pretty sketchy putter towards the end. 

 

It feels inevitable that I'll have to develop a smoother, more symmetric stroke. The more time I spend with a putter in hand, the more that naturally seems to happen. So I'm not sure it's such a big revelation if it's something that just develops naturally. My bad putting is more a sign that I over-practice the long game and don't focus enough on rolling the rock. 

 

What's more, for symmetry to exist in the stroke, one must be able to accurately anticipate how far to bring the putter back. It's like a good stroke requires you to "know the answer" before you begin. 

 

So again, I think this all just requires practice such that the necessary knowledge and experience can be gathered in one's mind and the physical aspects of putting more or less just occur as a by-product. 

Edited June 7, 2021 by MelloYello