The “knock down” bag

[cardoustie]

14 hours ago, extrastiff said:

So you have not really tried knockdowns with sgi is what I’m getting from that. 
 

I just switched to them, and have decided I love them. About to try some knockdown practice stuff on gcquad tomorrow, see if it is difficult

 

No i have done knockdowns with SGI clubs like Raptures - i just prefer smaller heads for firm conditions

[ChipNRun]

Golf Digest had a dynamite article a couple of years back on advice from club designers.

 

As far as knockdowns, one designer said average golfer was better off taking one or two extra clubs into wind than trying knockdowns.

 

One variation: take an extra club or two, and a hit a 3/4 swing (you have to practice this a little). The 3/4 will compress the ball less, which means ball spins less and suffers less head-wind effect.

 

If you have a job and a family and don't play high-level competitions, probably better use of prep time to learn the one iron set.

 

One exception: on windy days, some players will sub out a 4-hybrid for a lower-launching longer iron as driving iron.

[Caesar's shank]

Sooo for last 3 months I have essentially lost my full swing and have transitioned to playing a lot of knockdown shots while working through it. Have ZX5 5-7 and ZX7 8-P, was having some problems with the larger irons through the turf and hitting some squirty ones out to the right. Put my z965 blades in on a whim and it wasn't close how much better knockdowns became, especially in the longer irons. Better through the turf and feel is much more controlled, nothing to back this up apart from better scoring though

[cardoustie]

21 hours ago, Caesar's shank said:

Sooo for last 3 months I have essentially lost my full swing and have transitioned to playing a lot of knockdown shots while working through it. Have ZX5 5-7 and ZX7 8-P, was having some problems with the larger irons through the turf and hitting some squirty ones out to the right. Put my z965 blades in on a whim and it wasn't close how much better knockdowns became, especially in the longer irons. Better through the turf and feel is much more controlled, nothing to back this up apart from better scoring though

 

YES SIR !!!

[extrastiff]

I am taking many different builds to test tomo.

 

I am able to knock down the sgi, but here is the issue.. to get it as low as other clubs( it launches a couple degrees higher) I take speed off. When I do that, it takes spin off. Which would be fine with these clubs as designed, cause the descent angle is high....unless you are knocking it down. So now I don’t think I can hold nice greens with these in the wind, in theory. 
 

Gonna go test all that tomorrow, as well as some high launch, high spin shafted sgi to try out some perfect day” setups. 

 

knock down bag, in theory: 

one length forged, 5-pw. X7 shafts. 
 

perfect day bag: radspeed 5-gw, some version of a 100-120 gram stiff shaft. 
 

 

 

[Valtiel]

My "knockdown" bag is the same as my normal bag, just with a lot more whiskey in it. 😆

[The Mad Bomber]

27 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

My "knockdown" bag is the same as my normal bag, just with a lot more whiskey in it. 😆

I'm backing this bag setup lol

[Valtiel]

3 minutes ago, The Mad Bomber said:

I'm backing this bag setup lol

Everything becomes a knockdown when you stand over the ball and see two of them. 😄

[The Mad Bomber]

Question for the group - do you guys not play flighted wedges into greens all the time? I'm guessing I play about, maybe 80-90% of my wedges from 150 and in with more club, less height and a good amount of spin. And the difference between that shot, and flighting an 8-iron into the wind is absolutely zero. Same shot.

 

The problem with trying this with a GI or even SGI iron is really simple, it's just centre of gravity. There's a reason that wedges are almost all blades and CoG is a primary design function.

 

I think it's been well established that workability left/right with a blade over a cavity back is a myth, right? And we can agree that at a certain skill level, the supposed forgiveness of a cavity back over a blade has no real effect on your scoring if you prefer one over the other? 

 

That only really leaves one thing in the physics department, and that's centre of gravity and trajectory control. You just can't hit spinny bullets with SGI's like you can with a blade. Well, maybe somebody can, but it's not me. And apparently it's not Phil either 🙂

[nitram]

Here's a pretty good thread about it:

 

 

[nostatic]

On 4/8/2021 at 3:48 PM, Caesar's shank said:

Sooo for last 3 months I have essentially lost my full swing and have transitioned to playing a lot of knockdown shots while working through it. Have ZX5 5-7 and ZX7 8-P, was having some problems with the larger irons through the turf and hitting some squirty ones out to the right. Put my z965 blades in on a whim and it wasn't close how much better knockdowns became, especially in the longer irons. Better through the turf and feel is much more controlled, nothing to back this up apart from better scoring though

I was off for over a year trying to shake elbow tendonitis. Decided to change irons when coming back, and after some fiddling picked up a ZX5 7i to hit. Being ever curious, I ordered a ZX7 8i, figuring if I couldn’t hit it not much lost and if I did hit it then I could blend the set. Found I hit the ZX7 8i more consistently and actually the same distance as the 7i when struck properly. Did get a ZX5 6i and hit that well (better than my hybrid) so seems my current break point if at 7i (have the zx5; ordered a zx7). Now I’m curious about a 5i. At some point my speed/contact starts to make hybrid a better choice. But seems that in short/mid iron smaller is better. Maybe it’s a concentration thing. Or confirmation bias. Or aliens...

[bladehunter]

Phil’s not using 2 swings.  He’s changing clubs to achieve two flights.   This isn’t hard. At all. 

[bladehunter]

11 hours ago, The Mad Bomber said:

Question for the group - do you guys not play flighted wedges into greens all the time? I'm guessing I play about, maybe 80-90% of my wedges from 150 and in with more club, less height and a good amount of spin. And the difference between that shot, and flighting an 8-iron into the wind is absolutely zero. Same shot.

 

The problem with trying this with a GI or even SGI iron is really simple, it's just centre of gravity. There's a reason that wedges are almost all blades and CoG is a primary design function.

 

I think it's been well established that workability left/right with a blade over a cavity back is a myth, right? And we can agree that at a certain skill level, the supposed forgiveness of a cavity back over a blade has no real effect on your scoring if you prefer one over the other? 

 

That only really leaves one thing in the physics department, and that's centre of gravity and trajectory control. You just can't hit spinny bullets with SGI's like you can with a blade. Well, maybe somebody can, but it's not me. And apparently it's not Phil either 🙂

Of course.  Any decent player isn’t hitting wedges hard.    Thinking back to yesterday’s round.   I hit 2 wedges hard.  Or “ full “.    You cannot control spin taking full swipes at more loft than about 44 degrees.  

Edited April 11, 2021 by bladehunter

[me05501]

I think Phil does a very good job of maximizing Callaway's return on investment w/r/t the endorsement dollars they pay him. 

 

Every time he takes us down one of these rabbit holes it shines a little attention on a line of Callaway clubs that might not show up on Tour very often. The subtle implication is that a Tour pro *could* bag Mavrik irons...and maybe he will! Who knows? But don't sleep on those Mavrik irons, buying public!!