Brooks Koepka's multiple injuries - due to intense physical training?

[ConcernedBoutCOVID]

should we take it as a warning sign of what can happen if there's an overemphasis on weight training for junior golfers?

 

seems like this could really shorten his career?

[heavy_hitter]

No.  Injuries happen in every sport.  Who is to say weigh training is the cause?  All the young guns on tour are lifting.

[Abh159]

If Koepka was 17 or 18 years old you could maybe make an argument for that, but he's not. He's a 30 year old man...

 

Regarding how he hurt his knee this time, he said he had "an accident while he was with his family the weekend prior." The time he hurt his knee in 2019 it was due to slipping on wet concrete. 

 

It doesn't seem like weight training would be to blame for either injury.

[heavy_hitter]

34 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

If Koepka was 17 or 18 years old you could maybe make an argument for that, but he's not. He's a 30 year old man...

 

Regarding how he hurt his knee this time, he said he had "an accident while he was with his family the weekend prior." The time he hurt his knee in 2019 it was due to slipping on wet concrete. 

 

It doesn't seem like weight training would be to blame for either injury.

 

Rumor is he had his legs on a coffee table and his fiance' fell on his knee injuring him.  Again just rumor.

[ConcernedBoutCOVID]

34 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

If Koepka was 17 or 18 years old you could maybe make an argument for that, but he's not. He's a 30 year old man...

 

Regarding how he hurt his knee this time, he said he had "an accident while he was with his family the weekend prior." The time he hurt his knee in 2019 it was due to slipping on wet concrete. 

 

It doesn't seem like weight training would be to blame for either injury.

he has also injured his wrist, knee and hip - to go along with both knee injuries you mentioned; all in the last 3-4 years, and all causing him to miss multiple tournaments

 

this is not normal for a 60 year old man, let alone someone who's 30

[ConcernedBoutCOVID]

other golfers who bulked up and either kept getting injured or were never the same:

David Duval

Tiger Woods

Jason Day

Rory McIlroy

 

I'm not saying weight training is bad for golfers - but overemphasizing it could be

Edited April 8, 2021 by ConcernedBoutCOVID

[heavy_hitter]

2 minutes ago, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

he has also injured his wrist, knee and hip - to go along with both knee injuries you mentioned; all in the last 3-4 years, and all causing him to miss multiple tournaments

 

this is not normal for a 60 year old man, let alone someone who's 30

 

My son has had in the past two years a broken index finger, broken thumb, broken hand, Sever's Disease, and a pulled muscle in his back.  Guys get hurt.

[tiger1873]

3 minutes ago, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

he has also injured his wrist, knee and hip - to go along with both knee injuries you mentioned; all in the last 3-4 years, and all causing him to miss multiple tournaments

 

this is not normal for a 60 year old man, let alone someone who's 30

 

Stuff can happen to anyone.  Heck you could slip fall almost anywhere. That sort just life.  He also probaly hit what amounts to millions of balls in his lifetime.  My hands hurt just thinking about.

[heavy_hitter]

1 minute ago, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

other golfers who bulked up and either kept getting injured or were never the same:

David Duval

Tiger Woods

Jason Day

Rory McIlroy

 

I'm not saying weight training is bad for golfers - but overemphasizing it could be

 

Smoking is bad for you too.  How many golfers in the 80's walked down the fairway with a cigarette and whiskey flask in the bag?

 

Duval was a change of clubs.

 

Tiger was injuries.

 

Jason Day and Rory are just fit.

[ncalgolf]

you could also say his weight training was the cause for him to crush the ball, win major tournaments and make millions of dollars - life happens - do you

[ConcernedBoutCOVID]

1 minute ago, ncalgolf said:

you could also say his weight training was the cause for him to crush the ball, win major tournaments and make millions of dollars - life happens - do you

that's an excellent point which is sort of what I was alluding to

 

if a junior golfer who probably won't be making a living playing golf is overdoing it in the weight room trying to copy Bryson/Brooks, there is very little upside vs downside of a lifetime of injuries

[pinhigh27]

11 minutes ago, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

other golfers who bulked up and either kept getting injured or were never the same:

David Duval

Tiger Woods

Jason Day

Rory McIlroy

 

I'm not saying weight training is bad for golfers - but overemphasizing it could be

lol Duval went from chunky to skinny, won his first major and played well for multiple years and then got injuries.

 

Tiger mildly bulked up and would be on thinner side for basically all other major sports besides golf.

 

Rory has never bulked up. 

 

When did Jason Day bulk up? How exactly do people get vertigo from weight training? He has had injuries but that may be due to his anatomy and how he swings. 

 

I agree juniors shouldn't be focused on the weight room for their golf games, but it certainly doesn't hurt them like you're implying and it makes them healthier. The world would be a better place if more people got off their couches and were in the gym. 

[pinhigh27]

Information travels different now, IE something happens and its halfway around the world in 5 seconds. The stakes are also way higher in golf so injuries are identified sooner, people also practice more and younger. There are a ton of reasons why golfers could be getting injured more or we could perceive them to be imaged more, outside of anything they do in the gym. 

 

 

[ncalgolf]

22 minutes ago, pinhigh27 said:

lol Duval went from chunky to skinny, won his first major and played well for multiple years and then got injuries.

 

Tiger mildly bulked up and would be on thinner side for basically all other major sports besides golf.

 

Rory has never bulked up. 

 

When did Jason Day bulk up? How exactly do people get vertigo from weight training? He has had injuries but that may be due to his anatomy and how he swings. 

 

I agree juniors shouldn't be focused on the weight room for their golf games, but it certainly doesn't hurt them like you're implying and it makes them healthier. The world would be a better place if more people got off their couches and were in the gym. 

Very true - probably at appropriate age juniors should get in the gym - even if not make a career in golf or any sport they are probably going to live a healthier life than someone who doesn't do any gym.  And let me tell you it takes a great deal of dedication to over do it in the gym.  99.9% of the world isn't going to over do it in the gym.

[Abh159]

37 minutes ago, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

I'm not saying weight training is bad for golfers - but overemphasizing it could be

 

Gary Player has been doing intense physical training his hole life (even now into his 80s) and it seems to be working out pretty well for him. 

 

Then you have a guy like Fred Couples. Seems to stay in okay shape but he is by no means a workout freak. Yet he's struggled with back issues his whole career.

 

Injuries are going to happen for any professional athlete, and hitting a golf ball is surprisingly tough on the body, joints, and muscles. Physical training has been scientifically proven to help prevent injuries so if you're concerned about career and just general life longevity you're way better off spending time in the gym. 

[dlygrisse]

41 minutes ago, ncalgolf said:

you could also say his weight training was the cause for him to crush the ball, win major tournaments and make millions of dollars - life happens - do you

It's a valid point.  Which would you rather have?

1.  5 majors, 20 wins and be done at 35

2.  2 majors, 10 wins and play till you were 50?  

[DFS PFD]

Fallacy number one here is that Brooks' training is intense relative to actual athletes. What Brooks does is not pushing the limits whatsoever. Hence the muffin top and gut that he's carrying around. 

[ConcernedBoutCOVID]

14 minutes ago, dlygrisse said:

It's a valid point.  Which would you rather have?

1.  5 majors, 20 wins and be done at 35

2.  2 majors, 10 wins and play till you were 50?  

how about this:

 

12 PGA Tour wins (and 4 majors) in 5 years, 98 straight weeks World #1, expected to become the next great one

 

start intense weight training, gaining over 20lbs of muscle and criticized/questioned over workout regimen

 

win 0 majors and 5 PGA Tour wins in the next 5 years and counting, 2 weeks World #1

[dlygrisse]

26 minutes ago, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

how about this:

 

12 PGA Tour wins (and 4 majors) in 5 years, 98 straight weeks World #1, expected to become the next great one

 

start intense weight training, gaining over 20lbs of muscle and criticized/questioned over workout regimen

 

win 0 majors and 5 PGA Tour wins in the next 5 years and counting, 2 weeks World #1

If he never wins again he has had a great career.  The only real debate is what would it have looked like if he did less intense physical training?  At what point in time does intense weight training start to do more harm than good?  What if he just stuck to Pilates and yoga, with some light cardio and a good diet?  

I guess my point is Jack, Snead, Arnie, Watson all had long career with relatively few injuries, I think/know they all did a bit a conditioning behind the scenes, in fact I know Watson does as I know a person who saw the same trainer as he does....but none of these people bulked up like BK.  

[Abh159]

41 minutes ago, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

how about this:

 

12 PGA Tour wins (and 4 majors) in 5 years, 98 straight weeks World #1, expected to become the next great one

 

start intense weight training, gaining over 20lbs of muscle and criticized/questioned over workout regimen

 

win 0 majors and 5 PGA Tour wins in the next 5 years and counting, 2 weeks World #1

 

The main issue with this argument is that your sample size is so small. Here you're literally just talking about one person, Rory, and neither he nor anyone who is actually close to him has ever attributed his recent poor play to putting on some muscle. Also, all of Rory's injuries have come while he was playing golf (or pickup soccer with his buddies in the case of his ankle) not from gym or a training related activity. 

 

I mean my grandfather smoked every day of his life for 65+ years. He never developed any serious health issues and passed away from a spontaneous brain aneurism at the age of 89. However, I don't look at him as a sign that smoking will help me stay healthy and live until I'm 90. Because he's the exception not the rule. 

 

Just because muscle gain might (might being the key word) have had an affect on the 4 players you mentioned earlier doesn't mean that it hasn't resulted in positive changes for dozens and dozens of other players.

 

 

[ConcernedBoutCOVID]

https://golf.com/instruction/fitness/brooks-koepka-pga-championship-lifting-workout/

 

Koepka fired a four-under 66 on Saturday in the sweltering Missouri heat to wrest control of the 2018 PGA Championship. That’s after he rode a stationary bike and completed a lifting session — “back and tri’s for about an hour” — with his trainers in the morning.

 

Koepka says he works out before every round and that he “push[es] it like every other day.” Sunday morning, before trying to win his second major of the year, Koepka is guessing his trainers will have him do a “full body day.”

 

“Like Sunday at the U.S. Open I did 225, 14 times. I know that’s not that impressive. But I can get 315. So, it’s all right. I don’t know. I guess. Yeah. Compared to some guys, you watch, if you go into these public gyms, and you see these guys, I mean, they have thrown up 350, no problem. And you’re just like, all right.”

 

Then:

 

 

Now: 

 

[ConcernedBoutCOVID]

13 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

 

The main issue with this argument is that your sample size is so small. Here you're literally just talking about one person, Rory, and neither he nor anyone who is actually close to him has ever attributed his recent poor play to putting on some muscle. Also, all of Rory's injuries have come while he was playing golf (or pickup soccer with his buddies in the case of his ankle) not from gym or a training related activity. 

 

I mean my grandfather smoked every day of his life for 65+ years. He never developed any serious health issues and passed away from a spontaneous brain aneurism at the age of 89. However, I don't look at him as a sign that smoking will help me stay healthy and live until I'm 90. Because he's the exception not the rule. 

 

Just because muscle gain might (might being the key word) have had an affect on the 4 players you mentioned earlier doesn't mean that it hasn't resulted in positive changes for dozens and dozens of other players.

 

 

Well that's why the subject of this thread has a question mark at the end - it's obviously not a proven fact.

 

But I think it is worth asking whether working out with heavy weights for hours right before a tournament and adding 40+ lbs like Brooks and Bryson have done makes sense for longevity, if that is even important to people.

[heavy_hitter]

41 minutes ago, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

Well that's why the subject of this thread has a question mark at the end - it's obviously not a proven fact.

 

But I think it is worth asking whether working out with heavy weights for hours right before a tournament and adding 40+ lbs like Brooks and Bryson have done makes sense for longevity, if that is even important to people.

 

Who is to say that if Brooks didn't lift,  that he would have even made the tour?  Who is to say if Bryson didn't he would have won the US Open?  

 

Brooks has played 7 years on the PGA with 8 wins, 4 of them being majors.  Life guarantees no one anything.  I will take Brooks career at this point over longevity.  Even if healthy, he isn't guaranteed success tomorrow let alone 10 years from now.

Edited April 8, 2021 by heavy_hitter

[MattM97]

To be fair what most golfers do in the weight room is very basic, simple compound movements. The technique for these lifts are really not hard to learn.

 

I think the biggest factor is golf is a huge on reps, so much so an imbalance can develop by doing the same motion over and over again without doing it on the other side. The amount of reps a golfer takes can also lead to overuse injuries. Have an issue with your swing that puts extra stress or strain on say a knee, back or elbow that spot is going to get hurt especially if you've had issues in the past. 

 

Finally lifting is good for you, you get stronger even without "bulking up", your flexibility improves, your stamina improves, you can recover from practices better. You don't have to train at the intensity that Bryson does but even a basic program over a year you'll become a better golfer. 

 

 

[ConcernedBoutCOVID]

7 minutes ago, MattM97 said:

To be fair what most golfers do in the weight room is very basic, simple compound movements. The technique for these lifts are really not hard to learn.

 

I think the biggest factor is golf is a huge on reps, so much so an imbalance can develop by doing the same motion over and over again without doing it on the other side. The amount of reps a golfer takes can also lead to overuse injuries. Have an issue with your swing that puts extra stress or strain on say a knee, back or elbow that spot is going to get hurt especially if you've had issues in the past. 

 

Finally lifting is good for you, you get stronger even without "bulking up", your flexibility improves, your stamina improves, you can recover from practices better. You don't have to train at the intensity that Bryson does but even a basic program over a year you'll become a better golfer. 

 

 

I agree 100% with this post

 

Brooks' workout seems a bit over the top: he's doing really heavy lifting, and even right before a major tournament, so I just question whether that might be why he is now plagued with injuries

[ChipNRun]

6 hours ago, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

should we take it (Koepka's injury) as a warning sign of what can happen if there's an overemphasis on weight training for junior golfers?

 

seems like this could really shorten his career?

 

I take issue with both nature of Koepka's injuries as related to weight training, and with trying to tie in junior golfers. Koepka is an adult, junior golfers are children. Thus, great difference in bone and muscle structure.

 

Children can be introduced to age appropriate resistance training. Adolescents still have a good amount of epiphyseal cartilage at the end of their bones. This cartilage allows for the bones to grow as the child matures. At puberty, testosterone and estrogen helps transform this cartilage into hard, finished adult bones. Children engaging in improper weight training activity, often unsupervised by adults, can sustain injuries of the back and limbs from excess strain on not fully matured skeletal structures. 

 

Koepka and injuries

 

At age 30, Koepka is a fully grown adult. Proper weight training strengthens both bones and muscles. The nature of Koepka injuries, however, does not appear tied to weight training.

• 2017-2018 - Tendon injury to left wrist
• 2019 - Knee injury leads to aggravated injury of hip labrum, brought on by improper weight shifts; injured right knee at end of season.
• 2020 - Hip and knee issues
• 2021 - Knee, then neck issues

I would suggest that Koepka's injuries may be aggravated by his use of the modern X-Factor Golf Swing, which has been linked to a number of pro golf injuries. With the arrival of neck issues, the X-Factor may be the culprit.

 

The X-Factor during the backswing: "The bigger the separation between shoulder turn and hip turn creates more potential power/distance" (see Ultimate). Unfortunately, the pursuit of X-Factor pursuit, plus stronger golfer bodies from weight-lifting, combines for greater pressure on the lower back. This pressure is has been linked to increased back injuries, such as those sustained by Tiger Wood.

 

For details on mechanics, see MyTPI / X-Factor.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Weight lifting and adolescents

 

Prior to 1990, the health professions discouraged weight training for adolescents. The training was seen as risking injury to children with flexible and developing skeletal systems. Bur modern research shows that weight training, when the program is geared to children, is both safe and beneficial. Here are some specifics from Dr. Avery Faigenbaum, who specializes in youth exercise studies at the College of New Jersey.

 

  

[MattM97]

Just now, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

I agree 100% with this post

 

Brooks' workout seems a bit over the top: he's doing really heavy lifting, and even right before a major tournament, so I just question whether that might be why he is now plagued with injuries

 

To be fair what Brooks is doing isn't really heavy. What he's doing is heavy for golfers but compare what he's doing to other athletes in a university team weight room and he's lower middle of the pack. There is nothing to worry about training before a competition especially if he's been doing it for a while. If you suddenly decide to lift before a major competition and you have hardly lifted before yeah you'll be sore and tired. But someone who trains constantly and properly a lift before a competition isn't a bad thing. 

[pinhigh27]

6 hours ago, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

how about this:

 

12 PGA Tour wins (and 4 majors) in 5 years, 98 straight weeks World #1, expected to become the next great one

 

start intense weight training, gaining over 20lbs of muscle and criticized/questioned over workout regimen

 

win 0 majors and 5 PGA Tour wins in the next 5 years and counting, 2 weeks World #1

Brooks was definitely lifting when he won the majors. Your timeline is wrong. 
 

or if this is about Rory then he has never gained 20 lbs of muscle. No way. Intense is also relative. 
 

I just don’t get the workout hate. Your kid will not be harmed by working out too much for golf. It may not be the most productive use of their time but they’re not going to injure themselves if they train similar to Rory or Brooks. 

Edited April 8, 2021 by pinhigh27

[ConcernedBoutCOVID]

10 hours ago, pinhigh27 said:

Brooks was definitely lifting when he won the majors. Your timeline is wrong. 
 

or if this is about Rory then he has never gained 20 lbs of muscle. No way. Intense is also relative. 
 

I just don’t get the workout hate. Your kid will not be harmed by working out too much for golf. It may not be the most productive use of their time but they’re not going to injure themselves if they train similar to Rory or Brooks. 

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/rory-mcilroy-put-20-pounds-164500085.html

 

"Rory McIlroy has put on 20 pounds of muscle since he won his first PGA tournament, and he looks completely different"

[jj9000]

48 minutes ago, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/rory-mcilroy-put-20-pounds-164500085.html

 

"Rory McIlroy has put on 20 pounds of muscle since he won his first PGA tournament, and he looks completely different"

Now go do the same thing for Brooks.

 

Keep in mind that Brooks played on the Euro Tour while he was a toothpick.

 

What changed in his routine and body when he got to the big stage?

 

He has 4 Majors since then?