Old vs New

[LeoLeo99]

Wasn't sure where to post this topic but I think this is the best place.  Went to the range today to work on my lost swing and hit some old blades I picked up over the winter.  Put my Ping G400 PW up against a Lynx Predator 8i and Wilson Staff (non FG17 but look very similar) 8i.  The long irons in both the Lynx and Wilson set look next to impossible to hit so I didn't even try them today.  Funny how I used to hit an old blade 8i 150 yds and now it's going ~100 yds.  Sheesh.  I'm old.  Also funny how the G400 PW goes the same distance as the old school 8 irons.  What I didn't expect is the old blades go higher for me.  Also didn't expect them to be so easy to hit. Of course, couldn't really tell if my distances were consistent with the blades as the range isn't set up for great depth perception but all the strikes felt center.  G400 PW is 45°, Wilson staff 8i is 42° and I don't have any specs on the Lynx but assume similar to the Staff.  I can see why my golf game wasn't that good years ago even though I hit the ball very well.  Hitting old-school balls with the old blades and all that spin isn't a good combination for me.  

 

For you guys playing old blades, how do you control the spin?

[BIG STU]

For me I base my game with the spin. I generate a lot of spin anyhow since my home made anti hook swing goes from outside in with the face open at contact about 2*. On shots I do not want a bunch of spin on I hood the face down and use more club and take a shorter swing with shorter follow through in other words a punch chop. But my whole method of madness relies mostly feel and instinct and I can not really teach it since most stuff I do is natural to me. 

[scomac2002]

1 hour ago, BIG STU said:

For me I base my game with the spin. I generate a lot of spin anyhow since my home made anti hook swing goes from outside in with the face open at contact about 2*. On shots I do not want a bunch of spin on I hood the face down and use more club and take a shorter swing with shorter follow through in other words a punch chop. But my whole method of madness relies mostly feel and instinct and I can not really teach it since most stuff I do is natural to me. 

 

I know exactly what you're talking about @BIG STU.  That outside-in hold-off shot is exactly what I do myself when I've gotten into a bout of the smother hooks.  Sort of the opposite of trying to hit a big looping draw if trying to counteract a case of the wipe-cut/slice from a bit too much of the outside ins.

 

Which reminds me, I need to actually start to play for the big draw with my hybrid as I have been hooking it a good 30 yards pretty much from the outset!

[deejaid]

This is one of the big reasons I love playing vintage blades, I can spin the ball.   I just account for the spin and select club accordingly like Stu mentioned.

 

I went to my clubs Cobra demo day last summer and hitting the Cobra Forged Tec irons which are a players distance iron I noticed ai was getting no spin, I mean none.  The low spin distance craze has reached its zenith when you hit a 7-iron and it literally looks like a knuckleball flying away from you.  It seemed all the KBS shafts offers have me this penetrating low spin flight that might be en vogue these days but didn’t do it for me.  I just wouldn’t feel confident I’d hold greens with these low spin clubs.

 

Now give me a good old fashion Dynamic Golf X100 or S300 and I’m happy.  I like a ball flight that goes high and comes down steep.  It’s the only way I know to play. Nothing like seeing a ball land and dance.   Again, I account for spin and plan my shot accordingly.

[BIG STU]

3 hours ago, scomac2002 said:

 

I know exactly what you're talking about @BIG STU.  That outside-in hold-off shot is exactly what I do myself when I've gotten into a bout of the smother hooks.  Sort of the opposite of trying to hit a big looping draw if trying to counteract a case of the wipe-cut/slice from a bit too much of the outside ins.

 

Which reminds me, I need to actually start to play for the big draw with my hybrid as I have been hooking it a good 30 yards pretty much from the outset!

I pulled my hybrids out because the started becoming a hook machine for me again. And plus for some reason twice in the same round one day I laid the sod over the ball with them--- Lost my confidence with them--- Now days if it is too much for the 4 wood I take the 4 iron and go from there

 

[scomac2002]

1 hour ago, deejaid said:

I went to my clubs Cobra demo day last summer and hitting the Cobra Forged Tec irons which are a players distance iron I noticed ai was getting no spin, I mean none.  The low spin distance craze has reached its zenith when you hit a 7-iron and it literally looks like a knuckleball flying away from you.

 

Interesting.  I never really thought about that.  I bought a set of used irons last summer with graphite shafts when my back was acting up.  Even though they were distance irons the ball went no where compared to the shovels I'm currently using which are now about 13 years old.  I found the newer set to be much lower launching.

 

I've always been a low spin player, so I need spin to get carry.  They keep lowering loft, but it's not actually getting me further down the fairway.  The only other option for a lower swing speed player is ultralite and I find those almost impossible to keep slotted correctly because they're too light.

 

It's no wonder that so many of us that are older play older modernist clubs or straight out vintage as the newest designs don't really seem to work all that well.

[Bigarch]

12 hours ago, deejaid said:

This is one of the big reasons I love playing vintage blades, I can spin the ball.   I just account for the spin and select club accordingly like Stu mentioned.

 

I went to my clubs Cobra demo day last summer and hitting the Cobra Forged Tec irons which are a players distance iron I noticed ai was getting no spin, I mean none.  The low spin distance craze has reached its zenith when you hit a 7-iron and it literally looks like a knuckleball flying away from you.  It seemed all the KBS shafts offers have me this penetrating low spin flight that might be en vogue these days but didn’t do it for me.  I just wouldn’t feel confident I’d hold greens with these low spin clubs.

 

Now give me a good old fashion Dynamic Golf X100 or S300 and I’m happy.  I like a ball flight that goes high and comes down steep.  It’s the only way I know to play. Nothing like seeing a ball land and dance.   Again, I account for spin and plan my shot accordingly.

I'll echo this.  I picked up a "modern" set of Callaway Epics a couple years ago.  Hit nothing but drop-kick knuckleballs with those bastards.  Hated em.  Tried to reshaft them this winter and give them another shot with a higher launching shaft...same doggone thing.  Now they are drop-kick knuckleballs that go straight up in the air.

 

Absolutely can NOT get the ball on the center of the face because of all the bounce.  And it's not like I am a huge digger.  I've always taken shallow divots my whole life.  I only bought the Callaways because my newest iron set (Cleveland TA7 Tours) was 20 years old and I decided to give all this new technology a whirl.  I think if you are a person who has always switched to the newest clubs every year or two it's an easier adjustment.  But 20 years between iron changes is just too long.  I've been to a few demo days and I can't hit a solid shot with any of the new stuff...just can't.  Can't get the ball on the middle of the face.  And if you can't do that, you can't play golf!

 

I ended up figuring out that my older Ping Eye 2's were made in 1984 so they are good to go for as long as I ever want to play golf and they are back in the back permanent.  And my shots are back in the middle of the face because while they have a wide sole, the Eye 2's are very low bounce irons.  But more importantly, they feel and look like golf shots again.  The distance loss has been about 3/4ths of a club.  I can live with it.

[TheDeanAbides]

I want clubs that spin a lot because I know the course is going to do everything it can to take it from me. controlling spin is as simple as hitting less club with P3 swings or delofting and still spinning it, but with a lower more boring trajectory. God I love hitting clubs that have this kind of feedback. 

[BIG STU]

On 4/9/2021 at 10:55 PM, Bigarch said:

I'll echo this.  I picked up a "modern" set of Callaway Epics a couple years ago.  Hit nothing but drop-kick knuckleballs with those bastards.  Hated em.  Tried to reshaft them this winter and give them another shot with a higher launching shaft...same doggone thing.  Now they are drop-kick knuckleballs that go straight up in the air.

 

Absolutely can NOT get the ball on the center of the face because of all the bounce.  And it's not like I am a huge digger.  I've always taken shallow divots my whole life.  I only bought the Callaways because my newest iron set (Cleveland TA7 Tours) was 20 years old and I decided to give all this new technology a whirl.  I think if you are a person who has always switched to the newest clubs every year or two it's an easier adjustment.  But 20 years between iron changes is just too long.  I've been to a few demo days and I can't hit a solid shot with any of the new stuff...just can't.  Can't get the ball on the middle of the face.  And if you can't do that, you can't play golf!

 

I ended up figuring out that my older Ping Eye 2's were made in 1984 so they are good to go for as long as I ever want to play golf and they are back in the back permanent.  And my shots are back in the middle of the face because while they have a wide sole, the Eye 2's are very low bounce irons.  But more importantly, they feel and look like golf shots again.  The distance loss has been about 3/4ths of a club.  I can live with it.

I know exactly what you mean--- It did not bother me one bit that I hit a 5 iron yesterday from 145 on a Par 3 with a high 10 yard Bubba cut that stopped 1 foot from the hole.  Repeated the same shot on another par 3 which was a little out 3 feet from the hole. Yep had the MacHogans in the bag.  

Edited April 11, 2021 by BIG STU

[TheDeanAbides]

On 4/10/2021 at 3:55 AM, Bigarch said:

I'll echo this.  I picked up a "modern" set of Callaway Epics a couple years ago.  Hit nothing but drop-kick knuckleballs with those bastards.  Hated em.  Tried to reshaft them this winter and give them another shot with a higher launching shaft...same doggone thing.  Now they are drop-kick knuckleballs that go straight up in the air.

 

Absolutely can NOT get the ball on the center of the face because of all the bounce.  And it's not like I am a huge digger.  I've always taken shallow divots my whole life.  I only bought the Callaways because my newest iron set (Cleveland TA7 Tours) was 20 years old and I decided to give all this new technology a whirl.  I think if you are a person who has always switched to the newest clubs every year or two it's an easier adjustment.  But 20 years between iron changes is just too long.  I've been to a few demo days and I can't hit a solid shot with any of the new stuff...just can't.  Can't get the ball on the middle of the face.  And if you can't do that, you can't play golf!

 

I ended up figuring out that my older Ping Eye 2's were made in 1984 so they are good to go for as long as I ever want to play golf and they are back in the back permanent.  And my shots are back in the middle of the face because while they have a wide sole, the Eye 2's are very low bounce irons.  But more importantly, they feel and look like golf shots again.  The distance loss has been about 3/4ths of a club.  I can live with it.

I had a set of those TA7 Tours. Loved them. That's one I regret getting rid of. 

[BIG STU]

I will add something else I did pull the 3 iron and 2 iron out. Between Wednesday and Friday's Practice rounds I realized I can not get the SS yet to elevate them off the deck . I did practice the old Adams Boxer 3 hybrid some ( 19*) and did ok with it. I hit it one time yesterday hit a safety lay up on a par 5 and hit it ok. I may try the old Eye2 one iron again it has a fairly soft shaft. The M-6 was meeeh? Hit it ok really did not try that much because one of my scramble partners was killing it off the same tees as me and the other one was 72 years old and was hitting it off the super senior tees good. No need for me to hit driver much and strain myself. Like one of my partners said save me for the short iron shots and putting. We did a 3 man team and did the alternate shot thing. Did ok shot -9 with one bogey which I do not want to talk about---- We tied with 3 other teams for 4th--- The team that won had a Ace on a par 3 and shot - 12.  Ha ha still beat my old team. We are supposed to have the addition of Wrxer golfboy123 this week. My old team after all we went through and all the wins kinda shuttered me after I got hurt. One of the guys called me last night and asked if I wanted back on. I said no I liked beating them better with a pick up team. But after yesterday by chance we found out this may be a good team and will be better with golfboy added.

[Bigarch]

1 hour ago, TheDeanAbides said:

I had a set of those TA7 Tours. Loved them. That's one I regret getting rid of. 

I still have mine.  Played them for 20 years.  3-4 years ago I softened up the shafts and continued to hit them well.  I've basically just wore them out...wore the grooves out on the short irons.

 

But a couple years ago, I started looking for something newer. Found out my old TA7's didn't meet the new groove rules and that kinda bugged me a little bit.  So I started looking for something newer.  Figured there had to be something to all of these newfangled high launch, low spin clubs I kept hearing were so great.  For me they just aren't that great.  I hit them all drop-kick fat or catch em on the bottom groove thin.  You just can't hit golf shots doing that.  And I'll also add, that the manufacturers spend a lot of money developing clubs like that for the masses...but the tour players aren't playing that stuff unless it's in a driving iron or something like that.

 

And actually back to the OP's original question:  "How do you control spin?"... I think spin is my friend...just like bounce on a wedge.  The modern ball already has less spin than what I grew up playing.  For me, that's low spin enough.  I need irons that still impart some spin on the ball.  I have several sets of old blades that I like to tinker around with and play a couple rounds a year with each of them.  I don't have any trouble hitting them and controlling them.

[Bigarch]

1 hour ago, BIG STU said:

I will add something else I did pull the 3 iron and 2 iron out. Between Wednesday and Friday's Practice rounds I realized I can not get the SS yet to elevate them off the deck . I did practice the old Adams Boxer 3 hybrid some ( 19*) and did ok with it. I hit it one time yesterday hit a safety lay up on a par 5 and hit it ok. I may try the old Eye2 one iron again it has a fairly soft shaft. The M-6 was meeeh? Hit it ok really did not try that much because one of my scramble partners was killing it off the same tees as me and the other one was 72 years old and was hitting it off the super senior tees good. No need for me to hit driver much and strain myself. Like one of my partners said save me for the short iron shots and putting. We did a 3 man team and did the alternate shot thing. Did ok shot -9 with one bogey which I do not want to talk about---- We tied with 3 other teams for 4th--- The team that won had a Ace on a par 3 and shot - 12.  Ha ha still beat my old team. We are supposed to have the addition of Wrxer golfboy123 this week. My old team after all we went through and all the wins kinda shuttered me after I got hurt. One of the guys called me last night and asked if I wanted back on. I said no I liked beating them better with a pick up team. But after yesterday by chance we found out this may be a good team and will be better with golfboy added.

There's nothing better feeling than a pured 3 iron but it's getting harder and harder for me to do.  I finally put a 3 hybrid in the bag and have learned to like it.  4 iron is now the longest iron in my bag.

[scomac2002]

2 hours ago, Bigarch said:

There's nothing better feeling than a pured 3 iron but it's getting harder and harder for me to do.  I finally put a 3 hybrid in the bag and have learned to like it.  4 iron is now the longest iron in my bag.

 

🤫 Shhhh...  I have hybrids available all the way out to a 7.  I'm carrying a 6, but have yet to hit it this season.  No call for it so far.  Those newish distance irons I mentioned above have 23° 5 iron, so that's part of the reason for trying hybrids out to a 7, especially considering that I find I can't launch them consistently.  When I used to play vintage clubs fairly regular I had little trouble hitting a 4 iron and that was 24° loft.  🤔

Edited April 11, 2021 by scomac2002

[BIG STU]

4 hours ago, Bigarch said:

There's nothing better feeling than a pured 3 iron but it's getting harder and harder for me to do.  I finally put a 3 hybrid in the bag and have learned to like it.  4 iron is now the longest iron in my bag.

Yeah I am afraid after my accident anything longer than a 4 iron is out for me.

On the conforming thing I ran into that deal on conforming grooves with the Macs=== Now I could have submitted the one set that was pristine and Bladehunter and myself felt they would conform. Then I ran into the issue of my old 588 wedges. The main issue was for me to play in CGA events I had to get my AM status back and had to pay $250 for the USGA to consider it since it would be my second time getting it back. I finally decided it was too much hassle and forgot the whole thing. Glad I did because I am having the most golfing fun of my life playing what I want to when I want to. Of course if I wanted to play "legal" my MP-68s and Mizuno TP wedges are in the front closet

[Pepperturbo]

I am 70yrs old and playing more traditional lofted 620 series MBs & CBs, and use spin to my advantage.  Having said that I still hit the ball hard with more of sweeper attack, so get a bit more spin than other people.  If I want to affect trajectory or spin, punch shot, etc., I soften my strike and or change club, even AoA, even how I finish my swing. 

 

Yesterday, shorty Par 3 - 128yds to pin in front portion, middle right and green has false front.  Bunkers along left side and front.  Benign conditions, a 9i was the club except spin back would mean the ball would come off the front or into the front right bunk.  I pull 8i and hit a nice, firm but not hard shot to middle back part of green, 138yds, it hit and stuck like Velcro and I putted back to pin, tap in par.  It's about choosing the right club for the shot, not so much yardage.

 

Yesterday, even played the ProV1x which supposedly spins a bit more and higher trajectory.  Must be my mechanics cause trajectory wasn't much higher than ProV1. 

 

During yesterday's round I used 3i on a 210 par 3 green that was uphill from tee.  I came up short on the front apron, hooded PW to 3' tap in.  Later a 276yd driveable Par 4, I hit 2i 225yds down middle right, LW to 8' missed the birdie but got par.  Damn, I love this game.

Edited April 12, 2021 by Pepperturbo

[BIG STU]

20 hours ago, scomac2002 said:

 

🤫 Shhhh...  I have hybrids available all the way out to a 7.  I'm carrying a 6, but have yet to hit it this season.  No call for it so far.  Those newish distance irons I mentioned above have 23° 5 iron, so that's part of the reason for trying hybrids out to a 7, especially considering that I find I can't launch them consistently.  When I used to play vintage clubs fairly regular I had little trouble hitting a 4 iron and that was 24° loft.  🤔

Nothing at all wrong with that--- One of our esteemed members Obee is a legend in Southern California amateur circles and is a scratch or better and plays all hybrids. Had a guy at my old club in his mid 70s that played all hybrids with just his driver Trusty Rusty 56 and putter. Now he darn near played everyday weather permitting and constantly shot his age or better from the super senior tees. Believe it or not I used to play practice rounds against him when I was playing the minis down here. In those days he played the senior tees and shot par or under most rounds from there then. Back then I was playing the back tees and had to work real hard to tie or beat him. Now then and now he only carried about 5 hybrids but man could he utitilize them. I tried to take him for a partner in matches but he would not gamble not even for a Pepsi. Since our course closed he moved to another course further south on the beach and I heard the other day he was still killing the old farts there LOL. But yeah my philosophy is get it done how ever you can get it done

[BIG STU]

18 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

I am 70yrs old and playing more traditional lofted 620 series MBs & CBs, and use spin to my advantage.  Having said that I still hit the ball hard with more of sweeper attack, so get a bit more spin than other people.  If I want to affect trajectory or spin, punch shot, etc., I soften my strike and or change club, even AoA, even how I finish my swing. 

 

Yesterday, shorty Par 3 - 128yds to pin in front portion, middle right and green has false front.  Bunkers along left side and front.  Benign conditions, a 9i was the club except spin back would mean the ball would come off the front or into the front right bunk.  I pull 8i and hit a nice, firm but not hard shot to middle back part of green, 138yds, it hit and stuck like Velcro and I putted back to pin, tap in par.  It's about choosing the right club for the shot, not so much yardage.

 

Yesterday, even played the ProV1x which supposedly spins a bit more and higher trajectory.  Must be my mechanics cause trajectory wasn't much higher than ProV1. 

 

During yesterday's round I used 3i on a 210 par 3 green that way uphill.  I came up short on the front apron, hooded PW to 3' tap in.  Later a 276yd driveable Par 4, I hit 2i 225yds down middle right, LW to 8' missed the birdie but got par.  Damn, I love this game.

Man I would take you for a partner any day!!! Yep you play exactly like I do. You visualize what you want to do and do it no matter the number on the bottom of the club. You know as well as I do it is called knowing how to golf your ball. Like I told fellow WRXer golfboy 123 the other day when I met him Stu golf can be ugly and non conventional but it serves me well and besides it is more fun doing it my way right or wrong.

[BIG STU]

Was watching TV last night and one of my favorite movies came on--- Clint Eastwood The Good The bad and the ugly------ One of my buds called and in the course of the conversation asked what I was watching? I told him and he quipped " when did they make a movie of you playing golf?"

On another note I played a practice round yesterday trying to dial the M-6 in. Really learned something. I lofted it up some and kinda like the flight but love the accuracy and distance. My course is a golf community so a lot of the guys get out and ride around in the evenings on their personal golf carts. One of the guys was over on 14 when I was messing around and we were making comments. He made the comment " You know they make a weight kit for that M-6 don't you ?" I said yep as I pulled the roll of lead tape out of the basket. I told him that was a universal weight kit. Works on any brand of any era

Edited April 13, 2021 by BIG STU