Hybrid loft versus iron(s) to be replaced.

[BigTerp1524]

I’m having a set of Maltby DBM’s built and am considering replacing the 3i and 4i with Malby's STh2 hybrids. The 4h would be to replace the 4i and 3h would be more of a fairway wood/3i replacement. Should I be matching the hybrid lofts to the respective irons they are replacing? Or should I be replacing the irons with the hybrids that are listed as 4h and 3h? My confusion is that the DBM’s have lofts of 21 degrees for the 3i and 23 degrees for the 4i. The STh2 3h has a loft of 18 degrees and the 4h is 21 degrees. FWIW I’m going to have both built with steel shafts and at iron lengths. 

[Pepperturbo]

I am not aware of any rule.  It depends on associated gaps and how far you hit each club.  Hybrid replacement clubs have lofts similar to the iron they replace, but slightly longer playing lengths, reason people hit them further.  That 18' is like a 2i and 21' is comparable to my 3i.

 

Most people go to those type clubs because they have problems hitting long irons with those lofts and stock iron length and steel.  What is your reason for changing to those clubs?

[Drivingrangehero]

25 minutes ago, BigTerp1524 said:

I’m having a set of Maltby DBM’s built and am considering replacing the 3i and 4i with Malby's STh2 hybrids. The 4h would be to replace the 4i and 3h would be more of a fairway wood/3i replacement. Should I be matching the hybrid lofts to the respective irons they are replacing? Or should I be replacing the irons with the hybrids that are listed as 4h and 3h? My confusion is that the DBM’s have lofts of 21 degrees for the 3i and 23 degrees for the 4i. The STh2 3h has a loft of 18 degrees and the 4h is 21 degrees. FWIW I’m going to have both built with steel shafts and at iron lengths. 

I can’t speak to Maltby hybrids. I find many hybrids differ so much in flight and have hot faces 

 

I play a set of Mizuno HMB’s with Modus 105 stiff hs/x1 at 1/2 over in my irons. 

i play my hybrids with the same shaft Modus 105 s hs/x1 at 1/2 over length of the iron it replaces in the set. 
 

So the progression within the set maintains its 1/2 inch increments. 
 

The hybrids I play in the 3 and 4 slot are 1* weaker than the corresponding iron, and the gapping is spot on. 
 

with that being said, I play the Adams Super 9031 Proto hybrids because they are NOT hot faced ball speed monsters, and they are NOT high launch. They are the lowest launching most iron like hybrid I’ve ever played. 
 

it’s not comparing apples to Apples, but I would suggest you get the hybrids that are closest to the same loft, and if anything, weaker lofted than the iron it will replace. 
 

Personally, I would go with the 21* lofted hybrid(4) to replace the 21* lofted iron (3) ..... who cares what the number on the bottom is, loft numbers are the only measurement that matters, 2-3-4 numbers on the bottom of a club are arbitrary. 

[BigTerp1524]

4 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

I am not aware of any rule.  It depends on associated gaps and how far you hit each club.  Hybrid replacement clubs have lofts similar to the iron they replace, but slightly longer playing lengths, reason people hit them further.  That 18' is like a 2i and 21' is comparable to my 3i.

 

Most people go to those type clubs because they have problems hitting long irons with those lofts and stock iron length and steel.  What is your reason for changing to those clubs?

Thanks. I was leaning towards matching them based on loft, just wasn't quite sure.

 

I'm a high handicapper and am building a whole new bag. Currently I hit my 5W better off the deck than I do my 4i in general. Figured I'd be better off with a 4h than a 4i. The 3h I'm thinking as a more versatile club to be used off the tee on short par 4's as well as off the deck when I need the distance versus a 5W which I feel takes a better lie to hit than a hybrid. In general I've never gotten along with woods off the tee, but hit them OK off the deck. Figured an 18 degree or so hybrid would be a good versatile replacement for a 5w/3i.      

 

 

[Alan Pllu]

I always find I hit hybrids further than the equivalent lofted iron. 

 

I play mp18 combo set of mmc and blades. I wanted to swap out 4 and 5 iron with hybrids so got ts2 in 21 and 23 degrees. Even lofted up fully to 25 degrees the one stamped 23 goes massively too far to full my 5i slot so I have done the same thing as drivingrangehero and used an iron shaft in it cut to a 5 iron length and lofted to 25 to fill the gap better. 25 degrees is exactly the loft my mmc 5i is but it went about 15 yards too far with the normal full length graphite shaft in the hybrid. I also bought a heavier weight for it to keep the feeling of swingweight the same. 

 

Still goes about 5 yards further than I would like Ideally but how accurate can you really expect to be at that end of the bag? My 21 is lofted down fully and playing the standard graphite shaft and works well for spacing out the gaps. 

[BigTerp1524]

28 minutes ago, Drivingrangehero said:

I can’t speak to Maltby hybrids. I find many hybrids differ so much in flight and have hot faces 

 

I play a set of Mizuno HMB’s with Modus 105 stiff hs/x1 at 1/2 over in my irons. 

i play my hybrids with the same shaft Modus 105 s hs/x1 at 1/2 over length of the iron it replaces in the set. 
 

So the progression within the set maintains its 1/2 inch increments. 
 

The hybrids I play in the 3 and 4 slot are 1* weaker than the corresponding iron, and the gapping is spot on. 
 

with that being said, I play the Adams Super 9031 Proto hybrids because they are NOT hot faced ball speed monsters, and they are NOT high launch. They are the lowest launching most iron like hybrid I’ve ever played. 
 

it’s not comparing apples to Apples, but I would suggest you get the hybrids that are closest to the same loft, and if anything, weaker lofted than the iron it will replace. 
 

Personally, I would go with the 21* lofted hybrid(4) to replace the 21* lofted iron (3) ..... who cares what the number on the bottom is, loft numbers are the only measurement that matters, 2-3-4 numbers on the bottom of a club are arbitrary. 

Thanks.

 

I'm actually looking at the specs of the hybrids I'm considering. The lofts are 24, 21 and 18. I'm thinking 24 to replace my 4i (23 loft), 21 to replace my 3i (21 loft) and the 18 to serve as my wood off the tee or when I really need the distance off the deck. I've never gotten along with woods off the tee, so I'm considering the 18 degree hybrid to by my 5W, basically.

 

FWIW,  my irons will be built 1-1/2" over standard in the 7i and progressing in 1/4 increments between clubs both ways. I'm 6'8" and this gives me the length I need in the short irons without getting the longer irons too long. This would give me a 4h at 39.25" a 3h at 39.5" and an 18 degree hybrid at 39.75" (may bump this up to 40"). All will be shafted with the same shaft as my irons. The combination of the shorter lengths and steel shafts I'm thinking will make these much more manageable then their iron counterparts or graphite shafted 5W. And as @Alan Pllu said above, keep them more distance appropriate.

Edited April 12, 2021 by BigTerp1524

[Aviador Naval]

Unless your driver swingspeed is comfortably north of 105 or so, you are very unlikely to hit any hybrid club with less than 22 degrees high enough and/or with enough spin to make it a useful approach club.  The physics simply isn’t there for the same reasons you - and thousands of other golfers - are unable to hit long irons well.

 

You mention hitting 5w well.  You might consider adding a 21 deg fairway wood to the mix.

 

Above aside, there is no rule that says every club has to be a fully functional approach club that will hold greens.  Lots of folks have a lower lofted club that hits bullets when flushed for use as an alternate tee club, advancing the ball on par 5s, punching out of trouble, etc.

[TwistedSister]

10 minutes ago, Aviador Naval said:

Unless your driver swingspeed is comfortably north of 105 or so, you are very unlikely to hit any hybrid club with less than 22 degrees high enough and/or with enough spin to make it a useful approach club.  The physics simply isn’t there for the same reasons you - and thousands of other golfers - are unable to hit long irons well.

 

You mention hitting 5w well.  You might consider adding a 21 deg fairway wood to the mix.

 

Above aside, there is no rule that says every club has to be a fully functional approach club that will hold greens.  Lotsof folks have a lower lofted club that hits bullets when flushed for use as an alternate tee club, advancing the ball on par 5s, punching out of trouble, etc.

I have a driver speed of 93 MPH and have a 20* apex 2016 hybrid and have no issues getting height and spin.  A blank statement like yours is not accurate as we all have different swings. 

[Aviador Naval]

^^^. Fair enough - but I’d be willing to bet you are in a substantial minority and you are a low single digit while the OP stated he is not quite there with his game.

Edited April 12, 2021 by Aviador Naval

[BigTerp1524]

2 hours ago, Aviador Naval said:

Unless your driver swingspeed is comfortably north of 105 or so, you are very unlikely to hit any hybrid club with less than 22 degrees high enough and/or with enough spin to make it a useful approach club.  The physics simply isn’t there for the same reasons you - and thousands of other golfers - are unable to hit long irons well.

 

You mention hitting 5w well.  You might consider adding a 21 deg fairway wood to the mix.

 

Above aside, there is no rule that says every club has to be a fully functional approach club that will hold greens.  Lots of folks have a lower lofted club that hits bullets when flushed for use as an alternate tee club, advancing the ball on par 5s, punching out of trouble, etc.

Thanks.

 

I've never had my swing speed measured, but based on ball speed it's consistently over 100 mph. My swing is improving. I've been rebuilding it since January. I previously had a very fast tempo and violent transition. I've since moderated my tempo and transition (amongst many other things) producing a way more efficient, but still inconsistent, swing. Still lots of work there to do, but it's getting there.

 

Either way, I'm looking to replace the 3i and 4i with hybrids mainly because of how much better I hit my woods off the deck versus my current 4i ( I don't currently have a 3i). At my current skill level I'm wanting these for ease of hitting and forgiveness on long approach shots. My accuracy, or lack thereof, has me less concerned here about spin or height to stick greens. The 18 degree or so hybrid would be for an alternate club off the tee and a laser hitter for long 2nd shots on par 5's. 

 

With all that said, the only hybrid I've ever hit was an Adams Tight Lies that I built YEARS ago with my old set. I did hit it well though. But I'm basing this decision on my experience with long irons and woods. Lots to think about. I appreciate the feedback.

 

[BigTerp1524]

2 hours ago, dhacker56 said:

I have a driver speed of 93 MPH and have a 20* apex 2016 hybrid and have no issues getting height and spin.  A blank statement like yours is not accurate as we all have different swings. 

I currently hit the ball plenty high, probably too high. But I'm also playing regular flex shafts and standard lengths. I was fitted for X-stiff shafts on my irons. This is what I'm going with in my new set and should help bring the ball down a bit.

[596]

You really need to hit them and see what gaps you get.  My 3, 4 5 6 hybrids replace my 4, 5 6 and 7 irons.  Different lofts and different shaft lengths cause different distances thus different gaps.  My hybrids are older lofted then my more recent mizuno irons.

[TwistedSister]

3 hours ago, Aviador Naval said:

^^^. Fair enough - but I’d be willing to bet you are in a substantial minority and you are a low single digit while the OP stated he is not quite there with his game.

I was only referring to blanket statement that unless one has swing speed over 105 MPH they could not play hybrids with a loft of under 22*.  I was not commenting on anything about our relative handicaps(which are irrelevant to this conversation.  My speed is low, my age is 65 and I have a lower Cap because I rarely use more than 28 putts per round of golf.

[BigTerp1524]

43 minutes ago, 596 said:

You really need to hit them and see what gaps you get.  My 3, 4 5 6 hybrids replace my 4, 5 6 and 7 irons.  Different lofts and different shaft lengths cause different distances thus different gaps.  My hybrids are older lofted then my more recent mizuno irons.

Good point. I may start off with just one lofted in the middle of the range and see where I end up.

[BigTerp1524]

34 minutes ago, dhacker56 said:

My speed is low, my age is 65 and I have a lower Cap because I rarely use more than 28 putts per round of golf.

That's impressive. I had 41 putts yesterday playing 18. Lots of room for improvement in my game. I've just started this year taking it more seriously with practice, etc. So in my case the room for improvement is encouraging.

[596]

I'm 66, single digit cap, and use down to a 20* 3 hybrid.  This replaced my 5/7 woods. Not as long as the 5 but slightly longer then my 7 wood,  which is the same as my 4 iron.  This whole question is pretty darn individual and also based on what clubs you are using.  

[BigTerp1524]

29 minutes ago, 596 said:

I'm 66, single digit cap, and use down to a 20* 3 hybrid.  This replaced my 5/7 woods. Not as long as the 5 but slightly longer then my 7 wood,  which is the same as my 4 iron.  This whole question is pretty darn individual and also based on what clubs you are using.  

Thanks. I'm looking at a 5h with 24* of loft as my 4i, a 4h with 21* of loft as my 3i and a 3h with 18* of loft as my 5/7 wood. the 24* and 21* are identical lofts to the 3i and 4i I'm replacing. And since I plan to use the same shaft as my irons and keep them at the comparable iron lengths, I think they might just be the ticket. Obviously will never know without hitting them. Just trying to make the best decision based on the info. I've got. The 18* I also plan to shaft with the same steel as my irons, but may go a bit longer. 

[PandazYa]

To give you an idea my 4 hybrid is 22° of loft and my next iron is 23°. Gapping between those 2 is perfect at 11/12 yards.
Difference in lenght with the 2 shafts is 2 inch (39.75-37.75 / graphite 88gr for hybrid vs steel 115gr for iron)

[BigTerp1524]

13 hours ago, PandazYa said:

To give you an idea my 4 hybrid is 22° of loft and my next iron is 23°. Gapping between those 2 is perfect at 11/12 yards.
Difference in lenght with the 2 shafts is 2 inch (39.75-37.75 / graphite 88gr for hybrid vs steel 115gr for iron)

Thanks. I'm actually surprised that the gapping is that good with your hybrid having a lighter and longer graphite shaft. My next iron (5i) has a loft of 26*. Figured the 24* hybrid would fit in nicely. But I'm also shafting them with the same steel shafts as my irons and keeping them at the corresponding iron lengths. So don't expect them to be as long as if I went graphite and at more typical hybrid lengths. What I might ultimately do is start off in the middle with the 21* and see what I get. If I have too large of a gap between that and my 5i, I'll know I need the 24*. 

[mogc60]

1 hour ago, BigTerp1524 said:

Thanks. I'm actually surprised that the gapping is that good with your hybrid having a lighter and longer graphite shaft. My next iron (5i) has a loft of 26*. Figured the 24* hybrid would fit in nicely. But I'm also shafting them with the same steel shafts as my irons and keeping them at the corresponding iron lengths. So don't expect them to be as long as if I went graphite and at more typical hybrid lengths. What I might ultimately do is start off in the middle with the 21* and see what I get. If I have too large of a gap between that and my 5i, I'll know I need the 24*. 

This is the right approach to take. Until you know how far they go, you have no idea of what gaps your filling. For me I hit my 5 iron about dead on 200 yards. I hit my 22* hybrid 220 and my 16* hybrid 240. I use shorter shaft lengths in my hybrids and yardage is very consistent. I can easily dial them back to take a few yards off or hit them 5 yards further. I’ve always preferred larger gaps in that distance range and tighter gaps in my irons and wedges. Every hybrid is different and once you know the actual distance the 21* goes you can fill in as needed to cover your yardage gaps. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by mogc60

[BigTerp1524]

2 minutes ago, mogc60 said:

This is the right approach to take. Until you know how far they go, you have no idea of what gaps your filling. For me I hit my 5 iron about dead on 200 yards. I hit my 22* hybrid 220 and my 16* hybrid 240. I use shorter shaft lengths in my hybrids and yardage is very consistent. I can easily dial them back to take a few yards off or hit them 5 yards further. I’ve always preferred larger gaps in that distance range and tighter gaps in my irons and wedges. Every hybrid is different and once you know the actual distance the 21* goes you can fill in as needed to cover your yardage gaps. 

Yeah, this approach definitely makes sense. I have a general sense of how long I hit with my current set, but just started keeping accurate stats to really dial that in. But I'm also replacing my entire bag, minus driver, with appropriately fitted clubs so who knows what I'll end up needing gapping wise at that end of the bag. I do have a 3W and 5W I'll keep in the new bag to help with those gaps as I figure things out. 

[mxskier]

I actually go opposite for yardage and hybrid gapping.

 

A well struck 5i (25*) for me is about 134mph ball speed with carry of 215 off the deck and will have some roll.

 

A well struck 4H (22*) for me is up between 137-140mph ball speed and 225-230 carry and faster stopping power.

 

My approach is that, at this distance, I want just somewhat even spacing between my hybrid and my next longest club, not perfect 12-15 yard gaps between irons/hybrids. Keep the close gapping in the scoring range, and be sure to have your gaps generally covered as evenly and smoothly as possible in the top of the bag, as high degrees of accuracy with distance is less important up here.

[BigTerp1524]

7 minutes ago, mxskier said:

I actually go opposite for yardage and hybrid gapping.

 

A well struck 5i (25*) for me is about 134mph ball speed with carry of 215 off the deck and will have some roll.

 

A well struck 4H (22*) for me is up between 137-140mph ball speed and 225-230 carry and faster stopping power.

 

My approach is that, at this distance, I want just somewhat even spacing between my hybrid and my next longest club, not perfect 12-15 yard gaps between irons/hybrids. Keep the close gapping in the scoring range, and be sure to have your gaps generally covered as evenly and smoothly as possible in the top of the bag, as high degrees of accuracy with distance is less important up here.

Thanks. And I agree with all of this. Not really worried about tight gaps at the top. Way more concerned about getting something I can hit consistently. My new 5i will have a 26* loft. So I think I'll be safe testing this out with the 21* hybrid without worry of yardage overlap. This will also give me a chance to see exactly what I need/don't need. Would hate to get something that I find out I didn't really need to begin with due to yardage overlap, difficulty hitting, etc. Appreciate the response!!

[mxskier]

3 hours ago, BigTerp1524 said:

Thanks. And I agree with all of this. Not really worried about tight gaps at the top. Way more concerned about getting something I can hit consistently. My new 5i will have a 26* loft. So I think I'll be safe testing this out with the 21* hybrid without worry of yardage overlap. This will also give me a chance to see exactly what I need/don't need. Would hate to get something that I find out I didn't really need to begin with due to yardage overlap, difficulty hitting, etc. Appreciate the response!!

 

Yea honestly just go by lofts, its probably easiest. I don't know what's at the top of your bag with regard to 3W/5W lofts, etc, but if your new 5i is 26*, and guessing 6* is 29-30, then I would say find a 4H that's around 22-23. 21 might give you a few extra yards and might gap too closely to your I'm assuming 18-19. 

[Drivingrangehero]

20 minutes ago, mxskier said:

 

Yea honestly just go by lofts, its probably easiest. I don't know what's at the top of your bag with regard to 3W/5W lofts, etc, but if your new 5i is 26*, and guessing 6* is 29-30, then I would say find a 4H that's around 22-23. 21 might give you a few extra yards and might gap too closely to your I'm assuming 18-19. 

 

like MXSkier points to....Mind the Gap! 
 

it’s definitely something to consider. 
 

Big Terp. will you be gapping to a 5-4-3Wood or Driver up top? It’s always something to consider. 
 

it looks like you are dropping a 5wood? If so, what is your next club up, a 4 Wood, 3wood, or  Driver? 
 

For reference I play the top down 

Driver

4 wood (16.5*) or 1Hybrid (16*)

20* hybrid

23* hybrid

25* 5 iron - PW-G-S-L

 

So Big Terp, Whats at the top of the bag you’d be gapping off of? 
 

.

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Drivingrangehero
.

[BigTerp1524]

2 minutes ago, mxskier said:

 

Yea honestly just go by lofts, its probably easiest. I don't know what's at the top of your bag with regard to 3W/5W lofts, etc, but if your new 5i is 26*, and guessing 6* is 29-30, then I would say find a 4H that's around 22-23. 21 might give you a few extra yards and might gap too closely to your I'm assuming 18-19. 

15.5* 3W and 18* 5W is what I currently have. But I plan to replace both with 1 hybrid. New 6i is 30* and 4i (which I plan to replace with a hybrid) is 23*.  Was just thinking of giving the 21* a go first to see how I hit it. If I hit it farther then expected, then I'll know I need the 24* to fit the 4i gap. If I don't hit as far and it fits well below my 5i I'll know I won't need the 24* and the 18* will fill the 3i gap. Then I'll have to consider something else to fill the 3W/5W hole. Clear as mud, right? HA!!

 

Maybe I'm thinking WAY to much into this. But my thought is starting with the 21* runs the least risk of getting something that gaps too close to my 5i and a wasted purchase. But also gives me more information than an 18* in regards to that 4i to 5i gap.    

[BigTerp1524]

3 minutes ago, Drivingrangehero said:

 

like MXSkier points to....Mind the Gap! 
 

it’s definitely something to consider. 
 

Big Terp. will you be gapping to a 5-4-3Wood or Driver up top? It’s always something to consider. 
 

it looks like you are dropping a 5wood? If so, what is your next club up, a 4 Wood, 3wood, or  Driver? 
 

For reference I play the top down 

Driver

4 wood (16.5*) or 1Hybrid (16*)

20* hybrid

23* hybrid

25* 5 iron - PW-G-S-L

 

So Big Terp, Whats at the top of the bag you’d be gapping off of? 
 

.

 

I'll be gapping off my driver. I plan to replace my 3W/5W with 1 hybrid. That's why I'm thinking to start off with the 21*. If I hit it farther than expected then it's no big deal. I'll know I need the 24* to gap off my 5i. But if I start with the 24* and it's too close to my 5i, then I'm kind of shooting myself in the foot. 

[mxskier]

keep the 3W at 16.5.

 

if you intend to keep the 5W at 18 in play, and drop the 4i entirely, get a 22-23* hybrid.

 

if you intend to drop the 5W and keep the 4i in play at 23*, get a 19-20* hybrid.

 

or be like me and own a 5W at 19, 3H at 19, 4H at 22, and 4i at 22.5 and be super indecisive

[Drivingrangehero]

2 hours ago, BigTerp1524 said:

I'll be gapping off my driver. I plan to replace my 3W/5W with 1 hybrid. That's why I'm thinking to start off with the 21*. If I hit it farther than expected then it's no big deal. I'll know I need the 24* to gap off my 5i. But if I start with the 24* and it's too close to my 5i, then I'm kind of shooting myself in the foot. 

Ok, I would look into some options at the top.  
 

If you’re  going 16* hybrid after Driver, then the 21* will gap nice, but I’m willing to bet it will be miles longer than your 26* 5 iron. You’ll probably end up with the 24* hybrid in the bag eventually as well. 
 

In carry distance, i have a about a 35+ yard gap from Driver to 16* hybrid and about 19 yard gap from 16* to 20* hybrid, then a 13 yard gap from 20* to 23* hybrid, then a 14 yard gap from 23* hybrid to my 25* 5 iron. 
 

so from my 20* hybrid to 25* 5 iron I have a 27 yard gap. That is the same loft progression as yours, only 1* stronger, but my 20* (and 23*) hybrid is NOT a hot faced, high ball speed bomber. They are very iron like, whereas my 16* hybrid is a higher launching, hot faced Bomber

 

its not going to be apples to apples due to your shaft length progression being that you are 6’8”, but it’s something to consider. 
 

 

 

[BigTerp1524]

44 minutes ago, mxskier said:

keep the 3W at 16.5.

 

if you intend to keep the 5W at 18 in play, and drop the 4i entirely, get a 22-23* hybrid.

 

if you intend to drop the 5W and keep the 4i in play at 23*, get a 19-20* hybrid.

 

or be like me and own a 5W at 19, 3H at 19, 4H at 22, and 4i at 22.5 and be super indecisive

That's my problem. I don't know what I need/want. I'm building a new set of irons at plus 1-1/2" in the 7i and progressing 1/4" each way from there. I'm 6'8" and that gives me the length I need in the short irons without getting too long in the longer irons. I was also fitted for X-stiff shafts on my irons. My 3W and 5W are R-flex. So one way or the other, they are being replaced. Just need to figure out what to replace them with. That's why I'm thinking starting with a 21* hybrid will help be figure out what I need both ways. Whether it's a weaker lofted hybrid to fill the gap to the 5i or a stronger lofted one for the gap towards the driver. Or maybe I find I don't get along with the hybrid and go more traditional with a 4i and woods. 

 

The problem is I'm going component build through Maltby. So I don't have a chance to hit anything before buying. I do have them building me a 7i to my specs as a test club. But things are on backorder until the end of the month.