Project "add 10 yards to my 4 iron"

[Deuce78]

I need to add some length and height to my for iron!

So I've had a little gap in my 3/4 iron slot in the bag and have noticed on some par 5s that my 4 iron needs another 10 yards. My next clubs up are either a 17 or 18 degree hybrid, or a 19 degree driving iron. And they go too far.  So I have been looking at replacements for my current 4 iron, which is the p7tw, which I love and hit well.  It just needs some extra horsepower.  My current 4 iron is 24 degrees.  My first thought and attempt was find a slightly stronger 4 iron so I looked at the titleist T100S [22deg] and the mizuno mp20 MMC [22deg].  So I picked up one of each and went out to the course.  And...I was disappointed. 

The MMC felt nice, looked nice, but it actually launched a little low and dispersion was worse by double of my gamer.  It was longer but not as accurate.

The T100s also looked nice felt good in the middle but felt not so great if slightly off.  And also this was just slightly longer with double the dispersion of my gamer.  So pretty similar results on these irons so they were let go...

On to other ideas...I want some that launches high and goes further.  Looking at some iron reviews the p770 caught my attention.  The 4 iron is 22.5 degrees.  Its hollow with tungsten low in the head.  A perfect recipe.  So I picked one up....and again was disappointed.  The offset was too much.  The feel was not good at all.  Did it have the distance?  Yes but it had the lefts big time.  So I had to let it go.  And the search continues.

The club has to look right, feel great, and perform, and be accurate!  (P7tw haha).  I hate offset so my solution was to find some stronger lofted irons and bend them weak to about 23 degrees to kill the offset and do some more testing.  So I did some digging and made some selections.....the condentors....pics for your pleasure!

Nike Vapor fly pro [email protected]*
Titleist TMB [email protected]*
Callaway x forged UT [email protected]*

I put them at 22.5 degrees because that should give me about 5 yards. The extra half inch maybe 2 yards.  And the weight low in the head for added peak height and carry maybe another 3 yards.  So I'm hoping it adds up.  Also if there is a winner here I had another head I wanted to try.  The ping i500.  I had to order one so it will be 5 weeks 😡.  But will get a pass to the final.

I will ad an update once I have have a chance to hit them. If anyone has done something similar please let me know.  Or If I am missing any good contenders please let me know!  Thanks.

[BirdieBob]

When had the P7TW, I had the 3 - PW and bent them weak....BINGO!

 

[Chadwickog]

Have you considered reshafting with graphite and adding between half-1 inch to length?

[golfjam]

Just get a Mizuno Hot Metal Pro. It will probably add 20yds+ flying higher.

[monkeyboy]

Just go to a fitting - get on a launch monitor and try a bazillion different shafts/heads until you get the numbers you seek...easy.

[Deuce78]

51 minutes ago, BirdieBob said:

When had the P7TW, I had the 3 - PW and bent them weak....BINGO!

 

Could but that would give me 15 clubs! Sobid have to drop one somewhere.  Thanks for the suggestion!

30 minutes ago, Chadwickog said:

Have you considered reshafting with graphite and adding between half-1 inch to length?

this might work. I dont know if just that would get me the full 10...

28 minutes ago, golfjam said:

Just get a Mizuno Hot Metal Pro. It will probably add 20yds+ flying higher.

I will look at it.  The offset is likely a deal breaker. 

14 minutes ago, monkeyboy said:

Just go to a fitting - get on a launch monitor and try a bazillion different shafts/heads until you get the numbers you seek...easy.

Gotta see results outside on grass.  I'm like a 20 handicap indoor....

[Golfingfanatic]

I'd check out the Titleist U500 4 iron. Less offset than the T-MB and a good bit quicker off the face.

[BirdieBob]

47 minutes ago, Deuce78 said:

Could but that would give me 15 clubs! Sobid have to drop one somewhere.  Thanks for the suggestion!

this might work. I dont know if just that would get me the full 10...

I will look at it.  The offset is likely a deal breaker. 

Gotta see results outside on grass.  I'm like a 20 handicap indoor....

Drop the gap wedge and add two more wedges..like 54 & 60, since the pw is 49*.

[joostin]

How about just bending the P7TW 3 iron a little weak and skip the 4i?

 

As a bargain older club kind of guy I would personally try to find these in good condition and bend as needed.  These could fit your bill for me 🙂.  All should have relatively low VCOGs, not too much offset, thinnish soles, decent blade lengths:

 

MP-29 3i to go vintage Tiger 

Adams MB2 3i (new on bay)

Mizuno MP-54 3i

Corbra S3 Pro 3i (new on bay)

Bridgestone J40 DPC 3i

Maxfli Revolution Black Dot 3i

Nike VR Pro Combo 3i (new on bay)

 

However.... as mentioned in another thread, my unicorn 4 iron has become a compact 23° hybrid 🦄.  Enjoy the search!

[getitdaily]

Mp20 hmb 4i...22*

[spring70]

2 hours ago, golfjam said:

Just get a Mizuno Hot Metal Pro. It will probably add 20yds+ flying higher.

this

[Pepperturbo]

I'll skip the details.  I decided to go all-in with much lighter weight ascending graphite shafts as opposed to my 120g PX 6.0.  When I decided that I put 90g in my 2i as well.  Boy am I pleased with that decision. 

 

My 620 series irons have more traditional lofts, and specs.  My 4i has 94g shaft at 24' and worth 180+, 3i has 92g shaft at 21' it's 190-200+, hit it 210 the other day.  Then there's my 2i = 215-240, depends on how hard I hit it and conditions.  Not bad for an ole guy, and they are straight.  Dispersion is close to zippo, unless I go after one and lift my right shoulder, boom, it goes left, but that's my fault, not the shafts.  All that was needed was swing weight adjustment. 

 

That maybe all you need to consider, reshafting your 4i with high-end lightweight graphite.

 

 

Edited April 13, 2021 by Pepperturbo

[MrShield]

You’re missing the obvious how to add 10 yards to your 4 iron - use a Titleist AVX. I promise you that your 4 iron will go 10 yards further than your current ball. 
 

For me AVX added 13 yards on my 4 iron and 15 yards on my 3 iron. 

[BombinJim]

On 4/13/2021 at 10:45 AM, Deuce78 said:

My next clubs up are either a 17 or 18 degree hybrid

I would remove one of these hybrids from the bag and get a matching 3i in the P7TW set. Surely the similar lofted hybrids go very similar distances no?

[Deuce78]

22 hours ago, getitdaily said:

Mp20 hmb 4i...22*

Unfortunately I found the MMC to be a better club for me than the hmb when I hit them in a store a while back.  But good thought thanks.

21 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

I'll skip the details.  I decided to go all-in with much lighter weight ascending graphite shafts as opposed to my 120g PX 6.0.  When I decided that I put 90g in my 2i as well.  Boy am I pleased with that decision. 

 

My 620 series irons have more traditional lofts, and specs.  My 4i has 94g shaft at 24' and worth 180+, 3i has 92g shaft at 21' it's 190-200+, hit it 210 the other day.  Then there's my 2i = 215-240, depends on how hard I hit it and conditions.  Not bad for an ole guy, and they are straight.  Dispersion is close to zippo, unless I go after one and lift my right shoulder, boom, it goes left, but that's my fault, not the shafts.  All that was needed was swing weight adjustment. 

 

That maybe all you need to consider, reshafting your 4i with high-end lightweight graphite.

 

 

I get that could work but my attempts at lighter have not gone well.  Thx.

20 hours ago, MrShield said:

You’re missing the obvious how to add 10 yards to your 4 iron - use a Titleist AVX. I promise you that your 4 iron will go 10 yards further than your current ball. 
 

For me AVX added 13 yards on my 4 iron and 15 yards on my 3 iron. 

I prefer firmer golf balls like prov1x, left dash, and tp5x and would like to stick with them.  Honestly mainly for putting.  I hate soft balls for putting...haha.  thx though.

4 minutes ago, BombinJim said:

I would remove one of these hybrids from the bag and get a matching 3i in the P7TW set. Surely the similar lofted hybrids go very similar distances no?

I do only choose one of them to bag depending on the course.  I'd like a for forgiving club in this 3/4 spot that I can fill the gap with that flies high and carrys far.  Mainly for attacking par 5s and long par 3s.

[Deuce78]

A couple thoughts and updates.  I looked at the hot metal pro iron specs.  Dont think that an option because the 5 iron is 22 deg and I want the club length to be 3 iron length so that puts me in a bind up front with it.

 

So I hit the nike, callaway, and TMB irons I built up and based on that I am dropping the callaway UT.  It's a fine club and will hit the BST!  Just for me I think the sole is too big a jump from the blade.  Feel was okay, and distance was good, but not for me.

 

Vapor fly pro.  These are great long irons.  I was impressed with the feel and distance.  Looks great behind the ball.  Seems to be working.  Still a contender.

 

718tmb was noticeably launching in a higher window,  felt great, had the best average distance, con is I dont love the look.  I may snag a u500 to see if I get the same but like the look better.  Ticking almost all the boxes.  So far the front runner for what I want...

 

Surprised that the TMB came out on top after initial testing.  If anyone wants a new yesterday Callaway UT shoot me a pm.  

 

Or if you have hit the u500 compared to the TMB let me know your thoughts. 

[BombinJim]

49 minutes ago, Deuce78 said:

I do only choose one of them to bag depending on the course.  I'd like a for forgiving club in this 3/4 spot that I can fill the gap with that flies high and carrys far.  Mainly for attacking par 5s and long par 3s.

Roger that - didn’t know you swapped depending on course. I see you’re trying out the i500 head soon. I had an i500 3i power spec in my gamer set as a driving iron and I liked the distance/ball flight and thin top line/sole. I hope it works out for you.

[Pepperturbo]

1 hour ago, Deuce78 said:

I get that could work but my attempts at lighter have not gone well.  Thx.

Did you set up the club with proper swing weight?  Most of the time people don't bother with SW.

 

When I first tested lightweight graphite shafts they were just too light.  Not till my irons were properly swing weighted D1/D2 did I suddenly feel good where the head was in my swing and about impact.   They fell similar to how my PX 6.0 120g shafts fell at D2. 

 

After some higher and lower SW testing, my 2i finished D1 at 39.5" with GPCP2 Pro grip +3.  Similar result could be realized with your 4i.  Bend profile of most graphite shafts are mid, while mine are high bend; that makes a huge difference in feel, as well.  Good luck.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Pepperturbo

[Deuce78]

1 hour ago, BombinJim said:

Roger that - didn’t know you swapped depending on course. I see you’re trying out the i500 head soon. I had an i500 3i power spec in my gamer set as a driving iron and I liked the distance/ball flight and thin top line/sole. I hope it works out for you.

I have one on the way.  I do like them.  A little long heel to toe but like them alot.  Will se once it gets here in 5 weeks... ⏰⏰⏰

 

48 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Did you set up the club with proper swing weight?  Most of the time people don't bother with SW.

 

When I first tested lightweight graphite shafts they were just too light.  Not till my irons were properly swing weighted D1/D2 did I suddenly feel good where the head was in my swing and about impact.   They fell similar to how my PX 6.0 120g shafts fell at D2. 

 

After some higher and lower SW testing, my 2i finished D1 at 39.5" with GPCP2 Pro grip +3.  Similar result could be realized with your 4i.  Bend profile of most graphite shafts are mid, while mine are high bend; that makes a huge difference in feel, as well.  Good luck.

Yeah I am very swingweight aware and measure all my stuff I like d4 in the irons generally.  For shaft weight it's a combo of balance point and overall weight.  Too light on either and I dont have enough feel in the handle...

[Deuce78]

So the Tmb had a project x pxi shaft in it.  And dispersion wasnt the best. It was too easy to turn over or pull and felt really light in the handle. I am going to put in a soft stepped X7 or maybe an S400 tour issue shaft to help stabilize it better and add some weight and feel to the club.  I'm Still looking for a u500 3 iron....👀

[Deuce78]

So I decided to go with the soft stepped x7 in the TMB.  During the build I was really surprised to see that at the same length, I was going to need to add headweight to get up to swingweight.  I noticed there was about a 6 gram hosel weight in the shaft of the pxi when I pulled it out.  Given the club was going a little left I decided not to put the weight back in the hosel but in the toe.  The beauty of these tmb's is they are hollow.  So I added 5 grams of hotmelt to the head, neutral and toe, to get things to work out.  Also I was again surprised to see that titleist hot melts the tmb stock.  There was already a little melt in the head.  Probably why it felt really good while also feeling explosive off the face... I'm hoping I still get the great launch angle and height while controlling the dispersion a little better with this set up.  Stay tuned...will put this in the bag for my match this week for some eagle hunting!

If I get a u500 I'd like to try a hardstepped dg105x100 in it...

[Valtiel]

11 hours ago, Deuce78 said:

So I decided to go with the soft stepped x7 in the TMB.  During the build I was really surprised to see that at the same length, I was going to need to add headweight to get up to swingweight.  I noticed there was about a 6 gram hosel weight in the shaft of the pxi when I pulled it out.  Given the club was going a little left I decided not to put the weight back in the hosel but in the toe.  The beauty of these tmb's is they are hollow.  So I added 5 grams of hotmelt to the head, neutral and toe, to get things to work out.  Also I was again surprised to see that titleist hot melts the tmb stock.  There was already a little melt in the head.  Probably why it felt really good while also feeling explosive off the face... I'm hoping I still get the great launch angle and height while controlling the dispersion a little better with this set up.  Stay tuned...will put this in the bag for my match this week for some eagle hunting!

If I get a u500 I'd like to try a hardstepped dg105x100 in it...

I was going to suggest hotmelt as well but it seems you found that way yourself. To me that is the key with hollow driving irons as it really makes them sound and feel so much better. More "thwack" and less "clank". 

I would think weight is the key with dispersion in your case, and I would also be surprised if the i500 ends up working well based on your posts so far. It has a VERY high CG and has definitely not fared well in the feel/sound category. 

Edited April 16, 2021 by Valtiel

[Deuce78]

5 hours ago, Valtiel said:

I was going to suggest hotmelt as well but it seems you found that way yourself. To me that is the key with hollow driving irons as it really makes them sound and feel so much better. More "thwack" and less "clank". 

I would think weight is the key with dispersion in your case, and I would also be surprised if the i500 ends up working well based on your posts so far. It has a VERY high CG and is definitely not fared well in the feel/sound category. 

 

I haven't really delved into vcog but that is interesting about the i500 and it being a ping iron.  Youd think they would be low.  I do have an i500 3 iron.  But the lofts are so jacked its actually a 2 iron.  I was very dissatisfied with the feel and it was on the chopping block, but I figured what the hell and decided to hot melt the face.  Wow it's a new club and feels great.  It may earn a spot in the bag....

 

We actually share quite a few common shafts and heads in the bag....  MG gap wedge, K grind lob, tensei pw hybrid. T1100. I even played the DPC irons years ago...probably still a great option!

 

I'm curious if you know the vcog of the i500, vapor fly pro, tmb 718, and u500?

[mgoblue83]

If you are looking for a cheaper option check out the Maltby TS-1 3iron bent weak.

 

I play minimal offset blades (4-pw) and like the way the Maltby 3iron looks and the feel and performance are fantastic. 

 

I have X100s in my 4-pw and an AMT X100 in the 3 iron to save a little weight. 

[Drivingrangehero]

On 4/13/2021 at 10:45 AM, Deuce78 said:

Nike Vapor fly pro [email protected]*
Titleist TMB [email protected]*
Callaway x forged UT [email protected]*

Since you seem to be going with the more aesthetically appealing clubs in the 4 iron slot, why not look at the Mizuno HMB, TM P770,  TM P790, Titleist U500 or a PXG offerings. 
 

If you are ok with some that are less traditional in looks, the Tour Edge Exotics (TEE) EXS Utility ti, TEE CBX Ironwood, TM DHY,  Adams DHY, Sub70 699 pro..... etc! 

 

[Valtiel]

On 4/16/2021 at 4:51 AM, Deuce78 said:

 

I haven't really delved into vcog but that is interesting about the i500 and it being a ping iron.  Youd think they would be low.  I do have an i500 3 iron.  But the lofts are so jacked its actually a 2 iron.  I was very dissatisfied with the feel and it was on the chopping block, but I figured what the hell and decided to hot melt the face.  Wow it's a new club and feels great.  It may earn a spot in the bag....

 

We actually share quite a few common shafts and heads in the bag....  MG gap wedge, K grind lob, tensei pw hybrid. T1100. I even played the DPC irons years ago...probably still a great option!

 

I'm curious if you know the vcog of the i500, vapor fly pro, tmb 718, and u500?

PING irons have actually been quite high for awhile now. The running theory is that it is being used to increase spin to counteract the stronger lofts. Cool to know that hotmelt saved the club though! I was considering doing the same thing with something like the G410 Crossover since that club is a beast but suffers from the same harsh feel. 

Love my DPCs! The K-grind lob wedge is an absolute staple as well, i'll never be without one or something similar. 

All the Vcog numbers we have access to are here: https://www.golfworks.com/iron-head-mpf-ratings/a/870/

Utility clubs don't often get measured since Maltby baselines everything with a 6-iron and utilities don't often go down that far. 

i500 - 0.940
Vapor Fly Pro - 0.893
718 TMB - 0.793

The TMB then would be considered the much more versatile club given that a 0.793 VCOG does not require the higher strike and subsequent shaft lean to nail the sweet spot off the turf. The i500 would likely be a terrible match for a sweeper as a result, but good for someone that is steeper with lots of lean. I still want a TMB long iron to cram full of hotmelt to see how it stacks up to my UDI, but it will be hard to unseat that one. 

[ChipNRun]

On 4/13/2021 at 10:15 AM, Chadwickog said:

Have you considered reshafting with graphite and adding between half-1 inch to length?

 

That's what I did to the long end of my irons. Refit my 21* 4i from a KBS Tour 90 (steel) to a SteelFiber 780 HLS hybrid shaft (about 15 grams lighter). Club came out pretty versatile. Works great as driving iron on tight holes where driver flies too long... and good for approach shots - especially into the wind - if I'm swinging OK.

 

On tee, I can tee it up low and hit a hot fairly low draw, or I can tee it up 1/4" and swing it like a driver for a soft, floaty shot.

===================

 

In golf clubs, the primary determinant of ball flight is the clubhead loft and design. The shaft provides important fine-tuning, but is secondary.

 

Granted, my CB Pro Tungsten has a parallel 0.370 tip. For you, with taper tip, go for a somewhat lighter but not too light graphite shaft.

 

Any chance you could get a set 3i, weaken the loft and trim the shaft 1/4" short for control?  Or, strengthen the loft and add length to 4i shaft? Would either work?