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I don't think I'm smart enough to read them, anyway.

Did you see Bryson try to putt at Augusta without one..?   

Although a little cumbersome to carry, I go a step further and use the original design plans.    The group behind gets mad but I don't care.       

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On 4/13/2021 at 1:58 PM, Ferguson said:

Topic has been covered.  

I actually did do a search, albeit a limited one...and didn't see anything. Maybe I did it wrong?

 

I was interested not just because of Bryson but because when this was brought up a few years ago Phil said he was completely opposed to banning them because he relied on the heavily.

 

Made me wonder...that's all.

 

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Putting averages have not really changed over the past 20 years. In 2020 Ian Poulter averaged 27.88 for the season. In 2010 Snedeker averaged 27.97. Faxon averaged 28.05 in 2000. Seems like the best putters are all in the 27.5 to 28.0 range. There's been a drop of roughly one stroke since the 80's, but I'd contribute that more to better green conditions.

 

If the books are useful, it's sure not showing up in the data.

 

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39 minutes ago, BNGL said:

Wow where do you put a cup on that green? Other than back left I am not sure there's many spots 


The four corners is basically it. The purple ridge through the middle is about two feet of upslope. It’s split into two tiers. Each tier is sloped, but it’s all relative. 

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33 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

Putting averages have not really changed over the past 20 years. In 2020 Ian Poulter averaged 27.88 for the season. In 2010 Snedeker averaged 27.97. Faxon averaged 28.05 in 2000. Seems like the best putters are all in the 27.5 to 28.0 range. There's been a drop of roughly one stroke since the 80's, but I'd contribute that more to better green conditions.

 

If the books are useful, it's sure not showing up in the data.

 


I think a better metric would be looking at the entire tour average, not just the top putter, which isn’t a readily available stat. I also agree that the course conditions probably have more of a positive influence than the books. 

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4 minutes ago, MPAndreassi said:


I think a better metric would be looking at the entire tour average, not just the top putter, which isn’t a readily available stat. I also agree that the course conditions probably have more of a positive influence than the books. 

 

The tour average is actually listed on the 'Putts per Round' page. In 2020 the tour average was 29.3. In 2010 it was 29.4. In 2000 it was 29.19. In 1990 it was 29.49.

 

So, while the trend is generally down it's less than 0.2 strokes over 30 years. Again, I'd say conditions are a bigger factor than green reading books.

 

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4 minutes ago, cxx said:

Banning the books would favor the older players and slow down play on the greens.

 

The LPGA is playing in Hawaii this week, and a few weeks ago they announced that a new course would be used this year. With such short notice the players were not able to get green reading books.

 

The pace of play has been as fast as I've seen it in ages. Now, the scores are fairly low, so some of the speedup is very likely due to the reduced number of shots taken, but when you drop from 5+ hour threesomes to 4:15, and 4:20 twosomes to 3:45, it's not just the number of strokes.

 

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Ping G410 5h 26 (0 Flat) - Alta CB 70 Stiff
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7 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

 

The LPGA is playing in Hawaii this week, and a few weeks ago they announced that a new course would be used this year. With such short notice the players were not able to get green reading books.

 

The pace of play has been as fast as I've seen it in ages. Now, the scores are fairly low, so some of the speedup is very likely due to the reduced number of shots taken, but when you drop from 5+ hour threesomes to 4:15, and 4:20 twosomes to 3:45, it's not just the number of strokes.

 

 

Where did the times come from?

 

I just took a look via google. Looks like the flattest land in Hawaii.

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6 minutes ago, cxx said:

 

Where did the times come from?

 

I just took a look via google. Looks like the flattest land in Hawaii.

 

The TV crew has been talking about the improved pace all week. I've watched pretty much every LPGA round for over ten years, and I can easily tell that the pace is quicker this week.

 

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I think that they benefit poor green readers more than someone that is a naturally good green reader. Greens books artificially increase one players skill, while doing little to nothing for another's.

 

I don't understand why everyone wants the game to be easy. The fact that golf is difficult and  challenging is part of the reason that I love the game.

 

While many would love the idea of manufacturers making a driver that would automatically go 300 yards and straight, no matter how you swing it, I would find that nauseating.

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The pros already have access to essentially all of this information from their caddie anyway (or they should if their caddie has done his homework), so I see little issue making the same information available to the average golfer. One interesting thing to note though is that I'm not even sure that these books are entirely accurate. I own books from three of the major green book publishers (GolfLogix, PullView, and Strackaline) and I can say that either their information is not exactly the same (or they just choose to show it in different ways) as the books are not identical, even for the same course (yes, I own the same green book from multiple publishers, I have a problem 😀). Of the top manufacturers, I think only Strackline actually physically maps each course with their measuring tool.

 

I've used my green books quite a bit and while I do find them useful, I'd be hard pressed to identify two many circumstances where I felt like it definitely saved me shots. I think as some else said, it's most useful for confirming what you already feel, or maybe getting information on longer putts where it's relatively flat and not entirely obvious which way the ball will move over such a long distance.

 

I doubt the PGA tour guys need these books during play, but I don't know if it really makes any difference since they're going to have all of this information regardless, even if they can't take it out on the course with them in green reading book form (they'll still be able to put most of the information in their traditional yardage book.

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7 hours ago, mkuether said:

 

Just curious, which yardage book cover are you using for the Puttview books? Looks well-constructed and a good fit. I own several books and I'm still looking for a perfect cover.


That one is a custom through Coobs Golf. They work together, I think. Based on their website information. Great quality, really sturdy. Not flimsy feeling like some I’ve had and it fits perfectly. I think Coobs made some of The Buck Club yardage covers also.

 

 https://www.coobsgolf.com/collections/yardage-books/products/yardage-book

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6 hours ago, TheDominator273 said:

I've got a couple Puttview books on the way and am also curious about this.

 Just saw this. Mine is a custom from Coobs golf, they work with PuttView per their website. 
 

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13 hours ago, MPAndreassi said:


The four corners is basically it. The purple ridge through the middle is about two feet of upslope. It’s split into two tiers. Each tier is sloped, but it’s all relative. 

F me I wouldn’t even bother with the other corners haha. 
 

just curious when was that course built? 

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Just now, BNGL said:

F me I wouldn’t even bother with the other corners haha. 
 

just curious when was that course built? 

 

1927. I live in the northeast. Most of them are pushing 100 now. 

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Just now, MPAndreassi said:

 

1927. I live in the northeast. Most of them are pushing 100 now. 

Gotcha. You can tell it’s an old school designed green for me anyways those slopes are dead giveaways. Those can’t be built nowadays, whether that’s good or bad isn’t for me to say but nice looking book either way!

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If you've never looked a green Topo book - you should.  They can be purchased online but not inexpensive. 

 

Using one, most golfers wouldn't understand what they are looking at.  Maps are designed similarly to US Geological Topo maps; which I used when in the mountains and in-country. 

 

One thing is pretty clear,  even with all the technological equipment improvements of today, average Joe golfer hasn't improved his index.  That means even with huge, perfectly balanced putters, his putting judgment is still lousy.  A green reading book isn't going to change squat, except slow him down and the field behind him, even more.

 

On a related note, if anyone of the three dumbass slow pokes yesterday, in front of us, had a green reading book, I would have gone off book and shown someone's melon the error in their slow azz reading ways.  They didn't have the common sense to take clubs with them to their balls, and couldn't even get close to greens, playing the blue tees. 

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