Help Me Plan My Scotland II Trip For 2023

[njlam]

All this Scotland 2023 talk is getting me excited about my trip next year (July).

 

Originally scheduled for 2021, we had to reschedule for 2023 because the British Opens were on the courses we wanted to play in 2022.

 

We will start at Turnberry, then to Prestwick and Troon. Then to North Berwick and Muirfield, After that, we will stay at the Old Course Hotel and play TOC, and then finish at Carnousie.

 

While there are other great courses in Scotland, we narrowed our universe to course that were a least over 100 years old.

 

Leaving for Ireland in exactly 30 days....Ballybunion/Waterville/Lahinch/County Sligo/Port Stewart/Royal Portrush/RCD...

 

Have been scanning these boards for suggestions/recommendations. Thanks to all. 

The only thing that can go wrong now is flight cancellation....

[hammergolf]

17 hours ago, njlam said:

All this Scotland 2023 talk is getting me excited about my trip next year (July).

 

Originally scheduled for 2021, we had to reschedule for 2023 because the British Opens were on the courses we wanted to play in 2022.

 

We will start at Turnberry, then to Prestwick and Troon. Then to North Berwick and Muirfield, After that, we will stay at the Old Course Hotel and play TOC, and then finish at Carnousie.

 

While there are other great courses in Scotland, we narrowed our universe to course that were a least over 100 years old.

 

Leaving for Ireland in exactly 30 days....Ballybunion/Waterville/Lahinch/County Sligo/Port Stewart/Royal Portrush/RCD...

 

Have been scanning these boards for suggestions/recommendations. Thanks to all. 

The only thing that can go wrong now is flight cancellation....

Man, great lineup for Scotland next year! You’ll really enjoy Bally, WV, and Lahinch. I’m 91 days I’m out return trip back to Ireland! We have Concra Wood, Carne, Enniscrone, Strandhill, County Sligo, Donegal, and finish up with Narin & Portnoo. 

[EmperorPenguin]

For this year, it was necessary to book well in advance and at to book on the first day of booking availability.  We had to take into account that for bookings we were competing with those who had to reschedule due to lockdowns, and boy, was it necessary.  On the first possible day to book our starting time at The Honourable Company, we got our starting time (36-hole package, with morning fourballs, lunch then afternoon foursomes), and the rest of the starting times were booked for the day we wanted.

 

For those who played Muirfield, they say that dining requires a coat and tie.  Are they strict on the tie?  We will bring our sport coats, dress shoes, dress shirts and ties.

 

We just received word from Robin at The Experience that we were successful in booking our starting times at The Old Course and The New Course.  Last time we had The Old Course and Jubilee Course, the latter of which we had no choice.  That was simply how the allotments fell.  We wanted to play the New, but we were happy with Jubilee.  We will be playing the New Course on a Sunday morning, and later the next morning for the Old Course.  I will propose to the group that after playing New course we will maybe have a quick lunch and go play putt-putt with the wives at the Himalayas.  Does anyone know how much it is to play there, and if it will be crowded on Sundays?

[hammergolf]

31 minutes ago, EmperorPenguin said:

For this year, it was necessary to book well in advance and at to book on the first day of booking availability.  We had to take into account that for bookings we were competing with those who had to reschedule due to lockdowns, and boy, was it necessary.  On the first possible day to book our starting time at The Honourable Company, we got our starting time (36-hole package, with morning fourballs, lunch then afternoon foursomes), and the rest of the starting times were booked for the day we wanted.

 

For those who played Muirfield, they say that dining requires a coat and tie.  Are they strict on the tie?  We will bring our sport coats, dress shoes, dress shirts and ties.

 

We just received word from Robin at The Experience that we were successful in booking our starting times at The Old Course and The New Course.  Last time we had The Old Course and Jubilee Course, the latter of which we had no choice.  That was simply how the allotments fell.  We wanted to play the New, but we were happy with Jubilee.  We will be playing the New Course on a Sunday morning, and later the next morning for the Old Course.  I will propose to the group that after playing New course we will maybe have a quick lunch and go play putt-putt with the wives at the Himalayas.  Does anyone know how much it is to play there, and if it will be crowded on Sundays?

Yes, they are VERY strict will all of their rules at Muirfield.. If you want to eat in the dining room you must wear coat and tie. Funny story, when Muirfield was going to host The Open in 1992, Payne Stewart was staying in the hotel right behind it. He arrived on the Sunday before the course opened for the tournament. He walked down with his clubs and asked the Secretary if he could go practice. She told him sorry, but we don’t allow visitors on Sunday. Payne wasn’t too happy and asked her if she knew who he was. And the lady told him, yes Mr. Stewart I know who you are, but we don’t allow visitors on Sunday. As far as the Himalayas go, check the days and times they are open. I think it’s about £3 to play, but you should definitely book ahead because it has limited hours and does fill up very quickly.

 

https://www.standrewsputtingclub.com/himalayas-putting-book-online/opening-times/

[ND2005]

7 hours ago, hammergolf said:

Yes, they are VERY strict will all of their rules at Muirfield.. If you want to eat in the dining room you must wear coat and tie. Funny story, when Muirfield was going to host The Open in 1992, Payne Stewart was staying in the hotel right behind it. He arrived on the Sunday before the course opened for the tournament. He walked down with his clubs and asked the Secretary if he could go practice. She told him sorry, but we don’t allow visitors on Sunday. Payne wasn’t too happy and asked her if she knew who he was. And the lady told him, yes Mr. Stewart I know who you are, but we don’t allow visitors on Sunday. As far as the Himalayas go, check the days and times they are open. I think it’s about £3 to play, but you should definitely book ahead because it has limited hours and does fill up very quickly.

 

https://www.standrewsputtingclub.com/himalayas-putting-book-online/opening-times/

If you forget your tie, they will loan you one.

 

source: forgot my tie 

[tad950]

I think I remember the OP saying that he was worried about the members at Muirfield being snooty. Not to worry, most of the people playing on visitor days are American. So just snooty Americans 😄. Aside from the coat and tie rule, and gentle reminders to remove your hat upon entering the clubhouse, I felt no sense of stuffiness. Remember, visitors are a cash cow for the club. And Muirfield has the guest experience down pat. The lunch buffet is very good.

 

if for some reason you get switched to The Castle Course and request caddies. Double check with the caddy master to make sure someone shows up. Caddies don’t like working The Castle Course. A tough walk, and the greens are hard to read.

[njlam]

I am also told for the lunch at Muirfield, in addition to the coat and tie. Proper shoes and pants are required. No black golf shoes or golf pants allowed in the dining room…true?

[hammergolf]

3 hours ago, njlam said:

I am also told for the lunch at Muirfield, in addition to the coat and tie. Proper shoes and pants are required. No black golf shoes or golf pants allowed in the dining room…true?

I think golf pants are ok, just not rain pants. Their rules state no golf shoes, but it may be referring to spiked shoes. As always I would email the Secretary to confirm.

 

https://www.muirfield.org.uk/visitors-notes-guidance/

[ND2005]

4 hours ago, njlam said:

I am also told for the lunch at Muirfield, in addition to the coat and tie. Proper shoes and pants are required. No black golf shoes or golf pants allowed in the dining room…true?

Yes you should plan to fully change out of your golf outfit

[sabram]

I wear prescription glasses that get dark in the sun. It takes about 15  -20 minutes for them to get clear once they are out of the sun.  I changed my shoes and put on my jacket and tie and headed to the Muirfield dining room. I was stopped at the door and told sunglasses are not allowed. I explained that these were my regular glasses and the only ones I had. I was told to either put them in my pocket or wait in the hallway until they become clear.

[EmperorPenguin]

I will inform my guests that they will certainly need to wear their ties.  Black or white socks was quite surprising.  For me, whenever I play golf in Scotland I wear my black trousers, which can easily double as dress pants, and I always wear black socks and black golf shoes.  I will just need to bring a pair of dress shoes and my sport coat and tie, and that should indeed be sufficient.  Maybe I should bring my black alligator dress shoes and black alligator belt?  I can look really sharp if I want.

 

I received confirmed bookings from Robin at The Experience for the New Course on Sunday morning early, and the following morning we will play the Old Course in the mid morning Monday.  I cannot see how we would be switched to the Castle Course or any other course.  We have the Old and New.

 

If we are required to change out our clothes, I suppose The Honourable Company would let us use their locker room to change, am I right? I highly doubt we must change in the parking lot.

[njlam]

I am thinking a 2nd set of golf clothes…morning round, then coat and tie for lunch, not sure I want to put sweaty golf clothes back on for the afternoon rounds…

[hammergolf]

4 hours ago, EmperorPenguin said:

I will inform my guests that they will certainly need to wear their ties.  Black or white socks was quite surprising.  For me, whenever I play golf in Scotland I wear my black trousers, which can easily double as dress pants, and I always wear black socks and black golf shoes.  I will just need to bring a pair of dress shoes and my sport coat and tie, and that should indeed be sufficient.  Maybe I should bring my black alligator dress shoes and black alligator belt?  I can look really sharp if I want.

 

I received confirmed bookings from Robin at The Experience for the New Course on Sunday morning early, and the following morning we will play the Old Course in the mid morning Monday.  I cannot see how we would be switched to the Castle Course or any other course.  We have the Old and New.

 

If we are required to change out our clothes, I suppose The Honourable Company would let us use their locker room to change, am I right? I highly doubt we must change in the parking lot.

Yes, as a guest you have locker room privileges. Just make sure to take off hats as you enter. Big no no over there.

[sabram]

20 hours ago, EmperorPenguin said:

If we are required to change out our clothes, I suppose The Honourable Company would let us use their locker room to change, am I right?

Yes, they have locker room facilities for visitors

[philsRHman]

The locker room is an experience to itself, as is the clubhouse. It’s basically a museum. I spent more time taking in the history as I did lunch (which was outstanding, maybe my best meal in Scotland) and having read so much about the history of golf, it was incredible to see these trophies and course layouts and photographs.
 

As for attire, bring dress shoes, dress shirt, tie and sports coat. Keep in mind, everyone will have stuffed these garments into their luggage, the pressure is following the rules, not that you need to be perfectly pressed like a wedding. The day I was there, tons of Scandinavians, and lots of sporty style  sports coats, not American style Jos A Bank or Brooks Brothers. Think more stylish, less formal. And it’s a bunch of guys who just played 18 holes and likely going for 18 more. Golf pants were fine. I had no trouble packing into a small knapsack style bag thst also worked for a change of clothes and shoes when I played 36 elsewhere. It was significantly less hassle than I feared. 
 

Enjoy Muirfield. I found the ceremony around lunch a top, memorable experience. I had low expectations for the golf for some reason. But the golf course was remarkable in its stateliness and stood apart among everything m I played. Hard to describe but hole after hole added up to a heck of an 18. Lacking the oohs and ahhs of some others, but it was simply exquisite. 

[EmperorPenguin]

1 hour ago, philsRHman said:

Enjoy Muirfield. I found the ceremony around lunch a top, memorable experience. I had low expectations for the golf for some reason. But the golf course was remarkable in its stateliness and stood apart among everything m I played. Hard to describe but hole after hole added up to a heck of an 18. Lacking the oohs and ahhs of some others, but it was simply exquisite. 

Ceremony around lunch?  Please elaborate further.  This is very interesting.

[hammergolf]

35 minutes ago, EmperorPenguin said:

Ceremony around lunch?  Please elaborate further.  This is very interesting.

https://www.linksmagazine.com/been_here_lunch_at_muirfield/

[philsRHman]

7 hours ago, EmperorPenguin said:

Ceremony around lunch?  Please elaborate further.  This is very interesting.

Sorry I just mean the fanfare, changing into a jacket and tie, all the memorabilia on the walls, the long stately tables in the dining room. It’s unlike any “hot dog and a beer at the turn” I’ve ever experienced. 

[buckI]

No hats on in the clubhouse, tucked in shirts, no outerwear jackets to be worn in the clubhouses.    Nothing wrong with any of these requests.   The clubs all have locker rooms to use for changing, storing clothes, etc.

[EmperorPenguin]

Here is the latest, guys.  I had issues with the rogue guest.  He definitely wants to come as my guest, but his wife will not let him go if she will not come along with their daughter, her mother, and her aunt.  He asked me if they can come, and I answered that they are free to come, but not at my expense.  He later on told me he was planning to organize a follow group to go in tandem with us, but he told me that the expense (about $12,000) is too much for him and his family.  Wait a minute, you are not willing to save $12,000 in one year?  We have a year to go and neither him nor his wife are willing to save money for this follow group?  This, to me, is preposterous because now he put me in a position that for me to host him I would have to either support or subsidize his follow group, and this will well exceed budget.  I stood firm in my position and ultimately his wife he folded.  He and I are close friends, and he is considerate enough to bow out early enough to make plans with a replacement for him, and replace him I did.

 

I had dinner with the replacement guest a couple days ago.  With us was one of my other three guests and his wife, both of whom are coming.  We were having a good time at dinner when I told the invitee, "You will remember this dinner and subsequent conversation for the rest of your life.  Will you come to Scotland as my guest for nine magnificent days of golf?  I will cover the flights, hotel, golf, transportation and caddies.  All you pay for are dinners with whom you rotate with the other guys, and incidentals."  I told him everything that was planned, and he did not know that his friend and wife, sitting next to us at the table, were coming.  (All of my guests are to keep these plans secret until after we return home, because I do not want people hearing about this trip and coming out of the woodwork to ask me why I did not invite them.)  I explained to him the situation of the rogue guest with the stubborn wife, that he was out and I invited our new guest to replace him.  I will never forget the look of surprise on his face and how much wider his eyes were when I told him of the upcoming plans.  He accepted, and is now officially an esteemed guest of the Emperor.  I instructed him specifically to be wary of the rogue guest, whose wife who may change her his mind and he will want his spot back; it will be ultimately the new invitee's discretion to give it back, but he answered that he will not let it go for anything.

 

So the rogue guest is out, and the new guest is in.  This does pose a problem, and here is where I need your help.  We have already booked our starting times at The Old Course and with The Honourable Company of Edinburgh Golfers.  The starting times have been booked for the original four golfers in the first Scotland trip, and this includes the rogue guest.  We do not play until June, which is eleven months from now, so I am wondering if it will be a problem to change one player's name in the bookings?  I wonder if this will create issues with the Links Trust and The Honourable Company, because for the latter, I remember reading that no player changes are allowed, and I just prepaid our starting time there.  There is always the adage, "It is easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission."  The new guest already has his passport, and he also is a member of our club and has a GHIN number and carries a single-digit handicap.  I'm just worried that the bookings are committed and locked in, and no substitutions will be allowed, or are they?  Has anyone done substitutions for The Old Course and Muirfield?

[hammergolf]

Well, first off it sounds like you dodged a big problem with the rogue guest/wife/mother in law/kids. Literally the definition of give someone an inch, (which paying for a 9 day golf trip to Scotland is hardly an inch…) and they ask for a mile. I didn’t want to mention it before because frankly it’s none of my business. However I’ve done many group trips overseas for golf and the last thing you want is drama. I’m fortunate that those in my group who have went are all low maintenance guys so there is zero drama. IMHO the facts that the rogue guest even mentioned that his travel party should be paid for by you is just wrong. You are going way above and beyond by sponsoring people for the trip.
      As far as names for your tee times, you should be ok to change them this far in advance. I would think the company you used can handle that. Honestly if there is an issue with that, you don’t have to show ID when you check in. Since your rounds are already prepaid just have the new guest check in as the rogue guest. Last time we played Muirfield we just checked in for our two tee times and we were on our way. The Old Course was the only place that asked for a hdcp certificate. So as long as he has that you’re good to go.

Edited July 1, 2022 by hammergolf

[buckI]

I made changes to both courses with issue.   I did not book through a tour company through.

[ND2005]

For the third leg of the trip I would not stay in Edinburgh. It's about a 50 min drive from city center to North Berwick and there is traffic esp on weekday mornings. 

 

I'd consider Greywalls (very luxurious, adjacent to Muirfield - but somewhat isolated) or Marine North Berwick (recently renovated, easy walk into center of NB town)

[EmperorPenguin]

12 hours ago, ND2005 said:

For the third leg of the trip I would not stay in Edinburgh. It's about a 50 min drive from city center to North Berwick and there is traffic esp on weekday mornings. 

 

I'd consider Greywalls (very luxurious, adjacent to Muirfield - but somewhat isolated) or Marine North Berwick (recently renovated, easy walk into center of NB town)

None of us have ever been to Edinburgh before, and we are all curious to see the capital of Scotland.  I think the Balmoral is in downtown Ediburgh, so there is much to see and do after our rounds in that leg.  I want us to have activities to do after playing golf.

[El Gringo]

7 hours ago, EmperorPenguin said:

None of us have ever been to Edinburgh before, and we are all curious to see the capital of Scotland.  I think the Balmoral is in downtown Ediburgh, so there is much to see and do after our rounds in that leg.  I want us to have activities to do after playing golf.

While I agree with Empire, staying in NB is a convenient option and the town is very handsome. Nether Abbey is much closer to town than the Marine and a vibrant local boozer as well. Although, I almost always stay at the cheaper, but still nice 6a, a short walk from Nethers. Golfers Lodge is also good. 

 

I would set aside a day or two for Edinburgh with no golf or perhaps a game close to town such as Braid's or Musselburgh Old. If you are set on staying in Edinburgh take the train to NB. Its less hassle than driving. 

 

When walking around Edinburgh stop by Bruntsfield Short Course. You can rent a few sticks at the pub across the street. It's fun to spend an hour on this pitch n putt course on ancient golfing ground. 

Edited July 2, 2022 by El Gringo

[EmperorPenguin]

Here is the latest.  Robin from The Experience told me that even though the Honourable Company's website states very clearly that no substitutions are allowed, in practice one player change is allowed.  I speculate that this would be due to the death rule, that a player in the foursome may possibly die before playing.  The rogue guest will be officially replaced.

 

The Marine North Berwick?  Is this a sister property to The Marine Troon?  I heard that Marine Troon is also going through a renovation.

 

For my first trip to Edinburgh we will stay in downtown despite the traffic.  For subsequent trips to East Lothian I will certainly consider Marine North Berwick.  Are there any courses there comparable to Muirfield and North Berwick?  I suppose my best future prospects are Gullane #1 and The Renaissance.

[ND2005]

45 minutes ago, EmperorPenguin said:

Here is the latest.  Robin from The Experience told me that even though the Honourable Company's website states very clearly that no substitutions are allowed, in practice one player change is allowed.  I speculate that this would be due to the death rule, that a player in the foursome may possibly die before playing.  The rogue guest will be officially replaced.

 

The Marine North Berwick?  Is this a sister property to The Marine Troon?  I heard that Marine Troon is also going through a renovation.

 

For my first trip to Edinburgh we will stay in downtown despite the traffic.  For subsequent trips to East Lothian I will certainly consider Marine North Berwick.  Are there any courses there comparable to Muirfield and North Berwick?  I suppose my best future prospects are Gullane #1 and The Renaissance.

yes Marine Troon and Marine NB are owned by the same company - they also own the Russacks hotel in St Andrew’s. 
 

Renovations at both Marine hotels were completed this spring 

[EmperorPenguin]

This is a luggage question.  Because coat and tie are required at The Honourable Company when we will have lunch, I am advising my guests to bring a garment bag which will contain our sport coats, dress shirts, ties and dress shoes.  When going to Muirfield, we will bring our golf bags and our garment bags.  My plan will be to wear black trousers that day, so I will not need to bring dress slacks.  I am thinking of advising my guests to bring a garment bag along with our luggage, and the garment bag must fit in the main suitcase, because we are only allowed two pieces of luggage, and our golf bags will count as one.  I remember that the last time I went in 2019 I had a lot of room in my suitcase, so I think a garment bag will fit within it.  The garment bag I have now will certainly not fit in my suitcase, as it has wheels and retractable handle.  I just bought another one which may fit in my suitcase, but I have not yet tried it with my dress clothes in it.  There is always the chance that a stuffed garment bag may cause my main suitcase to exceed the 23kg weight limit.  For those of you who bring suits along for your trip, please give me some ideas on this garment bag issue.  Maybe a lighter garment sleeve?

Edited July 23, 2022 by EmperorPenguin

[ND2005]

1 hour ago, EmperorPenguin said:

This is a luggage question.  Because coat and tie are required at The Honourable Company when we will have lunch, I am advising my guests to bring a garment bag which will contain our sport coats, dress shirts, ties and dress shoes.  When going to Muirfield, we will bring our golf bags and our garment bags.  My plan will be to wear black trousers that day, so I will not need to bring dress slacks.  I am thinking of advising my guests to bring a garment bag along with our luggage, and the garment bag must fit in the main suitcase, because we are only allowed two pieces of luggage, and our golf bags will count as one.  I remember that the last time I went in 2019 I had a lot of room in my suitcase, so I think a garment bag will fit within it.  The garment bag I have now will certainly not fit in my suitcase, as it has wheels and retractable handle.  I just bought another one which may fit in my suitcase, but I have not yet tried it with my dress clothes in it.  There is always the chance that a stuffed garment bag may cause my main suitcase to exceed the 23kg weight limit.  For those of you who bring suits along for your trip, please give me some ideas on this garment bag issue.  Maybe a lighter garment sleeve?

I just brought a small leather duffle that can fit a pair of dress shoes and change of clothes. The blazer I brought was an unstructured/summer weight one so it was not a big deal. This bag was convenient to have throughout the trip so that I could change after golf if we got wet etc. 
 

You seem overly worried about the prestige/stuffiness of Muirfield. It really was not a big deal and in the clubhouse and locker room I saw a wide range from people bringing under armour gym bags to fill garment bags, and outfits ranging from full suits to Walmart blazers over golf pants. 
 

As long as you meet the jacket rule no one is going to blink an eye. 

Edited July 23, 2022 by ND2005

[hammergolf]

3 hours ago, EmperorPenguin said:

This is a luggage question.  Because coat and tie are required at The Honourable Company when we will have lunch, I am advising my guests to bring a garment bag which will contain our sport coats, dress shirts, ties and dress shoes.  When going to Muirfield, we will bring our golf bags and our garment bags.  My plan will be to wear black trousers that day, so I will not need to bring dress slacks.  I am thinking of advising my guests to bring a garment bag along with our luggage, and the garment bag must fit in the main suitcase, because we are only allowed two pieces of luggage, and our golf bags will count as one.  I remember that the last time I went in 2019 I had a lot of room in my suitcase, so I think a garment bag will fit within it.  The garment bag I have now will certainly not fit in my suitcase, as it has wheels and retractable handle.  I just bought another one which may fit in my suitcase, but I have not yet tried it with my dress clothes in it.  There is always the chance that a stuffed garment bag may cause my main suitcase to exceed the 23kg weight limit.  For those of you who bring suits along for your trip, please give me some ideas on this garment bag issue.  Maybe a lighter garment sleeve?

I put it in my golf travel bag. In fact, I have modified my travel bag and had velcro sewn into it that I put some of my clothes in packing cubes (underwear, socks, t shirts, shorts, polo and a garment bag (trousers, polos, coat) then put my golf bag on top of it. Have it almost down to a science to get it the 44lbs limit.