2 v 2 scramble missing player

[Warrior42111]

So I'm running a golf trip coming up this weekend, while there is some cash on the line, but it is mostly a fun trip. On one day is a 2 v 2 scramble match. One player had a family issue come up on this day and likely can not make it.

 

Any suggestions how how to play the match with as 1 v2? the two Ideas I have are the single goes and plays a 2 ball scramble until getting to the green then just one putt since I'd think putting will be a big advantage being able to hit it twice. The other thought I had was the single playing both shots all the way (putting included) and subtract something like 3 shots from their HC pre round.

 

Any thoughts are appreciated.

[Hawkeye77]

Nothing scientific here, but my observations from when we have a 1 person scramble event vs. "normal" 2 person scramble events is most don't really score anywhere near as well in the 1 person event as do combinations of 2 players for whatever reason.  

[Abh159]

I think the best option is to let the single play two balls on every shot including putts. Doesn't really seem fair that (through no fault of his own) every other team would get two chances to make a putt and he only gets one. Plus, if he's having a bad day he doesn't have a teammate to lean on like everyone else. He shouldn't be punished for his partner backing out. 

[nsxguy]

2 hours ago, Warrior42111 said:

So I'm running a golf trip coming up this weekend, while there is some cash on the line, but it is mostly a fun trip. On one day is a 2 v 2 scramble match. One player had a family issue come up on this day and likely can not make it.

 

Any suggestions how how to play the match with as 1 v2? the two Ideas I have are the single goes and plays a 2 ball scramble until getting to the green then just one putt since I'd think putting will be a big advantage being able to hit it twice. The other thought I had was the single playing both shots all the way (putting included) and subtract something like 3 shots from their HC pre round.

 

Any thoughts are appreciated.

 

Firstly, you don't mention the playing ability or handicap of any of the 3 (except yourself at 21) so how can anybody determine how to make a fair match ?

 

Secondly, how is it fair if the 1 player "team" gets only a single putt while the 2 player team gets 1 EACH ?

 

I doubt there is any reliable statistical base, or even posters here that have ever played that sort of a match so anything you do will simply be a "best guess".

 

Forget the scramble.

[david.c.w]

Go with the 9 point game if you can.  Letting one guy make 2 of the same shots is not fair IMO.  Gets feel on putts and chips and then gets to try again.

 

each hole has 9 points distributed like this:

5-3-1 low mid high

5-2-2 low tie tie

4-4-1 tie tie high

3-3-3 all tie

 

most points wins

[TBD203]

I think if the single is a low handicap he will benefit from hitting multiple shots in a row. However if he's a 12-20 cap he may not benefit hitting another if he's just hit a terrible first shot. Low caps don't often miss two shots in a row, but mid to high caps do.

[Mr. Bean]

15 minutes ago, david.c.w said:

Go with the 9 point game if you can.  Letting one guy make 2 of the same shots is not fair IMO.  Gets feel on putts and chips and then gets to try again.

 

each hole has 9 points distributed like this:

5-3-1 low mid high

5-2-2 low tie tie

4-4-1 tie tie high

3-3-3 all tie

 

most points wins

 

But... how do you embed those points into the results of the rest of the field..? The others are playing 2vs2 scramble scoring strokes instead of points.

[Warrior42111]

just to answer some questions raised the handicap for the player still playing is 15 is missing partner is a 35. who they're playing is unknown that's decided after round 1 and the captains rematch the teams but the other team ranges from 5-45.

 

As for the full format it is a match play scramble with each hole worth 1 point and each 9 hole mini match worth 2 points. so 22 in total can go from the match to the overall team. 

[david.c.w]

how many teams are there? 

[Mr. Bean]

24 minutes ago, Warrior42111 said:

just to answer some questions raised the handicap for the player still playing is 15 is missing partner is a 35. who they're playing is unknown that's decided after round 1 and the captains rematch the teams but the other team ranges from 5-45.

 

As for the full format it is a match play scramble with each hole worth 1 point and each 9 hole mini match worth 2 points. so 22 in total can go from the match to the overall team. 

 

Match Play but all 18 holes are played?? What is the reason for choosing Match Play instead of Best Ball Stroke Play if you have decided all holes will be played?

[Warrior42111]

@david.c.w two 6 person teams so 3 matches on this day

 

@Mr. Bean Just changing up formats day 1 is individual stroke play 1 v 1 with each hole worth a point. With the high range of handicaps alternate shot was a no go.  Also hoping the match play keeps everything tight  into day 3.

[nsxguy]

15 minutes ago, Warrior42111 said:

@david.c.w two 6 person teams so 3 matches on this day

 

@Mr. Bean Just changing up formats day 1 is individual stroke play 1 v 1 with each hole worth a point. With the high range of handicaps alternate shot was a no go.  Also hoping the match play keeps everything tight  into day 3.

 

My friend, you originally asked about 2 vs. 2 scramble. So 4 players and 1 guy couldn't make it so then you had 2 vs. 1.

 

Now you have "two 6 person teams" ? That's 12 players - and I'm pretty sure that's NOT what you're talking about.

 

Do you realize how confusing you're making things ?

 

I would suggest you stick with the one game and forget about how you get there.

 

So is it a 2 vs. 1 scramble ? Or something else ?

[Warrior42111]

3 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

My friend, you originally asked about 2 vs. 2 scramble. So 4 players and 1 guy couldn't make it so then you had 2 vs. 1.

 

Now you have "two 6 person teams" ? That's 12 players - and I'm pretty sure that's NOT what you're talking about.

 

Do you realize how confusing you're making things ?

 

I would suggest you stick with the one game and forget about how you get there.

 

So is it a 2 vs. 1 scramble ? Or something else ?

the 12 players is the overall teams in the whole 3 day event.

 

my question is on how to make a 2 v 1 match up on one day for one match work.

 

I'm an engineer so I confuse people daily 😄

[farmer]

Give the single his hdcp or what you determine is equitable.  Two 15's in a scramble will beat the shite out of a single 15, even if he's scrambling.

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, Warrior42111 said:

@david.c.w two 6 person teams so 3 matches on this day

 

@Mr. Bean Just changing up formats day 1 is individual stroke play 1 v 1 with each hole worth a point. With the high range of handicaps alternate shot was a no go.  Also hoping the match play keeps everything tight  into day 3.

 

You are mixing up Foursome and Fourball. And if you give points for every 18 holes it does not matter if you play Match or Stroke but there are certain differences in the Rules between those two forms of play and they are by no means insignificant.

[Augster]

This form of play, while it doesn’t happen all the time, happens often in a “Ryder Cup”-type environment. 
 

Each “team” has 6 players total. Total players=12. One of the “teams” is only going to have 5 guys for the 2v2 scramble matches. So it’ll break down, 2v2, 2v2, 2v1. 3 tee times. I hope that’s clear. 
 

The scramble matches are played 1 point per hole, I presume 1/2 points for tied holes, and 2 points for winning the front side “match” and 2 points for winning the back side “match”. 22 points total/must. 
 

I’m sorry I can’t help the OP with how to handicap this thing. If you let the single hit twice, I imagine he’ll destroy the other team. He can hit a conservative shot for the first, and aggressive the second. Even a high cap can pull that off. To me, the most fair way would be to let the single play 2 tee balls on every hole, then 2 balls the rest of the way on handicap holes 1-9 and 1 ball the rest of the way on 10-18. Most always the par 3’s are in the 10-18 and he’d get 2 tee balls, virtually putting him on the green somewhere, but only 1 putt. Just spitballing, but no matter what in that format, you’re just guessing. 
 

Have a great time! Sounds like a lot of fun. Except the scramble part. 🙂

[TwistedSister]

Give the single TWO shots every stroke but ONLY  right after each other on FULL shots.  Have the single player putt and chip first and then have both players on the other team putt and chip then let the single take the second putt or chip.  Takes some of the familiarity out of the touch shots...

Edited April 15, 2021 by dhacker56

[rogolf]

Let's go outside the box.  The recommended handicap allowance (WHS) for a two person scramble is 35% low handicap plus 15% high handicap of the two players, which is attempting to end at 50% since there are two players.  Obviously, there is no recommendation for the single player.  Give that player his or her full handicap and let that player play two balls on every shot, including putts.  Again, they can (must) be played consecutively since it's match play and the ball farthest from the hole needs to be played first in match play.  If that ball is away, then there are two consecutive cracks at it, just like the opponents.

Personally, I don't see how the single player has a chance at winning overall, but could be wrong.

[nsxguy]

36 minutes ago, rogolf said:

Let's go outside the box.  The recommended handicap allowance (WHS) for a two person scramble is 35% low handicap plus 15% high handicap of the two players, which is attempting to end at 50% since there are two players.  Obviously, there is no recommendation for the single player.  Give that player his or her full handicap and let that player play two balls on every shot, including putts.  Again, they can (must) be played consecutively since it's match play and the ball farthest from the hole needs to be played first in match play.  If that ball is away, then there are two consecutive cracks at it, just like the opponents.

Personally, I don't see how the single player has a chance at winning overall, but could be wrong.

 

LOL The 35% plus 15% attempting to get to 50% only works if the 2 players have the same cap.

 

That aside however, let's take a real example.

 

A 10 is the single player and the other 2 are a 10 and a 20. All course handicaps of course.

 

So 3.5 + 3 = 6.5 strokes for the 2 man team.

 

The 10 capper gets his full 10.

 

How do we see the match turning out ?

 

 

[rogolf]

11 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

LOL The 35% plus 15% attempting to get to 50% only works if the 2 players have the same cap.

 

That aside however, let's take a real example.

 

A 10 is the single player and the other 2 are a 10 and a 20. All course handicaps of course.

 

So 3.5 + 3 = 6.5 strokes for the 2 man team.

 

The 10 capper gets his full 10.

 

How do we see the match turning out ?

 

 

Unknown territory, since we're making things up.  How do you see that match working out?

Edited April 15, 2021 by rogolf

[rogolf]

35 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

LOL The 35% plus 15% attempting to get to 50% only works if the 2 players have the same cap.

 

That aside however, let's take a real example.

 

A 10 is the single player and the other 2 are a 10 and a 20. All course handicaps of course.

 

So 3.5 + 3 = 6.5 strokes for the 2 man team.

 

The 10 capper gets his full 10.

 

How do we see the match turning out ?

 

 

These type of games questions are always interesting and never resolved to everyone's satisfaction.  There used to be a practice regime called the "Hogan game" where you would play two balls from every spot - one round continuing play with the best shot of the two and another round continuing play with the worst shot of the two.  A very interesting experiment, which I never completed, but certainly would give a perspective of one's scoring range and demonstrate the importance of consistency.

I was a member at a club that was having a "one best net score from four" competition where there were no requirements on handicaps of the four players.  One of the members, who was a very solid 1 handicap, said that he would choose three 36 handicap (max at the time) as his group.  He would have them sit in the bar and buy their beer while he played - 1 +36 +36 + 36/4 = 27 subtracted from his gross score, result would be around 55.  The committee wisely decided to change the conditions of the competition.

Edited April 15, 2021 by rogolf

[nsxguy]

47 minutes ago, rogolf said:

Unknown territory, since we're making things up.  How do you see that match working out?

 

Well, I see the 10 as being 2 10s getting 50% EACH for a total of 10 shots. Much more than the USGA recommended 5 shots.

 

So since the "2 10s" together are getting 5 more shots than the USGA recommended 5 shots, and 3.5 shots more than the 10 and 20 together it should equal a runaway for the (single) 10.

 

Not so ?

[nsxguy]

33 minutes ago, rogolf said:

These type of games questions are always interesting and never resolved to everyone's satisfaction.  There used to be a practice regime called the "Hogan game" where you would play two balls from every spot - one round continuing play with the best shot of the two and another round continuing play with the worst shot of the two.  A very interesting experiment, which I never completed, but certainly would give a perspective of one's scoring range and demonstrate the importance of consistency.

I was a member at a club that was having a "one best net score from four" competition where there were no requirements on handicaps of the four players.  One of the members, who was a very solid 1 handicap, said that he would choose three 36 handicap (max at the time) as his group.  He would have them sit in the bar and buy their beer while he played - 1 +36 +36 + 36/4 = 27 subtracted from his gross score, result would be around 55.  The committee wisely decided to change the conditions of the competition.

 

Your "1" capper only shot 82 ?

 

Tsk, tsk. 🙃

[rogolf]

8 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Your "1" capper only shot 82 ?

 

Tsk, tsk. 🙃

My bad math, of course, 45 would be correct.

 

13 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Well, I see the 10 as being 2 10s getting 50% EACH for a total of 10 shots. Much more than the USGA recommended 5 shots.

 

So since the "2 10s" together are getting 5 more shots than the USGA recommended 5 shots, and 3.5 shots more than the 10 and 20 together it should equal a runaway for the (single) 10.

 

Not so ?

I would still think the other two have the advantage.  What if it were that the absent partner had a 36 hdcp and the single player was 10?  Then it would be  3.5 plus 5.4 equals 9, not much different than the single player at 10.  As I said earlier, there is no silver bullet solution - it's just making things up so nobody is po'd.

[nsxguy]

17 hours ago, rogolf said:

My bad math, of course, 45 would be correct.

 

I would still think the other two have the advantage.  What if it were that the absent partner had a 36 hdcp and the single player was 10?  Then it would be  3.5 plus 5.4 equals 9, not much different than the single player at 10.  As I said earlier, there is no silver bullet solution - it's just making things up so nobody is po'd.

 

Maybe I'm not following you. I don't understand the relevance of the missing player and/or his handicap.

 

You suggested "Give that player (the single) his or her full handicap and let that player play two balls on every shot, including putts."

 

So he's effectively 2 10 handicap players, getting 10 strokes  competing against a 10 and a 20 who are only getting 6.5 strokes.

 

I don't see how the single player can lose doesn't have a rather large advantage.

[Mr. Bean]

18 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

Maybe I'm not following you. I don't understand the relevance of the missing player and/or his handicap.

 

 

 

 

Me neither. If they were two the 10 capper would only have one shot per spot, not two as he has when playing alone.

[Mr. Bean]

On 4/15/2021 at 5:51 AM, rogolf said:

I was a member at a club that was having a "one best net score from four" competition where there were no requirements on handicaps of the four players.  One of the members, who was a very solid 1 handicap, said that he would choose three 36 handicap (max at the time) as his group.  He would have them sit in the bar and buy their beer while he played - 1 +36 +36 + 36/4 = 27 subtracted from his gross score, result would be around 55.  The committee wisely decided to change the conditions of the competition.

 

I guess that is why such competitions around here always have the limit for the group to be not more than the lowest cap. So in your case the handicap of the group would have been 1 or 0 or even -1. (stupid committee, btw...)

[blaird]

We play 2 on 1 scrams every so often here. A couple ways we do it, depending on how the bets from first 18 turned out. Usually we offer one extra shot and one extra putt on par 4s and 5s and one extra shot (can be full, chip or putt) on par 3s. Sometimes we may offer one extra shot per hole, may offer one extra putt per hole, but we try our best not to do a full on 2 on 1 scramble bc the 1 will beat the 2 the majority of the time. 

 

My home course does a 1 man scramble tournament and their only condition is if you hit the second ball, you have to play it. 

[Mr. Bean]

36 minutes ago, blaird said:

My home course does a 1 man scramble tournament and their only condition is if you hit the second ball, you have to play it. 

 

I don't understand what you mean. In scramble you always have more than one ball in play.

[Halebopp]

21 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

I don't understand what you mean. In scramble you always have more than one ball in play.

 

It's a fun singles format. You are allowed two tries on any of your shots but are also required to continue with the second ball when you do use that option.