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Is perpetual distance gain really worth the dollars?


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Hey all, I'd be interested in feedback and opinions here on this topic.  I hope it's not a re-up of something already actively going.  Anyway, I've never been one to jump on the newest equipment available, although I have taken new things for a test run before to not much fanfare.  To be honest I don't think I actually legitimately noticed enough distance gain to justify it.  My gamer goes between a Titeist 905 and 983, both of which were released 15+ years ago.  I know exactly what they do and how far the ball flies.  My irons and wedges I have kept the same specs for since college, so same thing there that I know exactly what to expect.  Sorry to ramble, here is my question I guess.  Is it truly important for you to make changes to newer equipment as often as you can specifically to gain distance, or is it more important to know what the club does and not change?  I'm really curious here as to the general consensus, thanks.

Edited by BURKMI19

Driver: Titleist 905S (YS-9.1x, 44")

3 Fwy: Titleist PT (DG X-100, 43")

2-PW: Macgregor JNP Forged (Rifle 6.8 hard step)

SW/LW: Vokey SM4 C-C

Putter: Mitchell

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I am sure there are good fitters but I have seen too many people pay $$$ for fitting and clubs, only to find out they have been taken for a "ride".  Fitting is way over hyped.  Like PXG and Scotty.

Go find a fitting center that is outdoors and uses Trackman.  Hit your gamer as a baseline and let the fitter find a combo that beats the baseline by a margin that justifies the expense.  You may find

I'm a fan of old shoes & jeans. So no. You have a quality bag, enjoy it.

I actually went back to my R9 Superdeep and found it to be way more consistent as far as dispersion goes.  Not being able to play as much as I used to, the trust is there with that club.  My 98mph swing speed isn't exactly hitting bombs anyways, so distance is not a vital part to how I score on the course.  For some time I did get caught up in trying newer shaft / head combos when removable heads hit across all brands.  It is fun to experiment and see what else is out there.  Just glad I never got rid of my R9 driver, hold on to those clubs you trust. 

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I'm with you. I have neither the money nor inclination to be chasing distance. I hit the ball far enough, and would much rather be confident in where it is going, rather than eeking out a few more yards. 

 

I'm sure a solid fitting and $2000 in disposable income might improve my game a few % points. But, the time I spend practicing and working on my swing pays a much higher dividend. 

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Absolutely.  Drivers nowadays are more forgiving on mis hits than the drivers of yesteryear.  Modern shafts seem to help with dispersion as well.  I would highly recommend going in for a fitting and at the very least pick up a new driver if nothing else.  I can see from your handicap and equipment that you are an exceptional golfer and have serious ss which makes it more imperative that a fitting is necessary as you def shouldn't  play anything off the rack.  For me, my ss is on the high side and have had all my clubs fitted because off the rack options are meh and don't perform nearly as well for me.  The investment has paid off for me. 

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You can play really good golf with almost anything. When i went on my honeymoon in 2013 i used my Ping Eye2 irons and a 10yr old driver and no 3 wood or hybrid. I shot in the 70s every day. 

 

I think there's benefits to newer clubs but its really up to the person. I don't think anything i buy now is because i expect it to be "longer", maybe more forgiving or more suited to my game. 

 

I do find the "dollars" aspect of it always fascinating though. Golf is expensive but not necessarily compared to other purchases we make regularly. An upgrade package on your car might be 10,000$, people buy real estate like it's nothing and take on tons of debt. If you buy a Toyota instead of a Lexus you could buy 3 different full golf bags and still come out "ahead"

 

What's worth it to people is different for everyone

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11 minutes ago, dhacker56 said:

I am sure there are good fitters but I have seen too many people pay $$$ for fitting and clubs, only to find out they have been taken for a "ride".  Fitting is way over hyped.  Like PXG and Scotty.

True, but I strongly believe buyer should do some research as well before taking the dive.  What I mean by this is going online and checking to see what their optimal numbers on an LM should beforehand.  I know not everyone will do this or are unaware of this and it's the fitter's job to fit them into the right clubs.  Buyers should also do some research on which fitters have good reputations and go to them as well.  I wouldn't go as far to say as fittings are overhyped, but I agree that quite a few people have been ripped off at fittings.  

Edited by phizzy30
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I'm about to replace everything in my bag except my putter this year--it's a 20 year old set that I was fit for. The way I look at it, golf technology has made improvements in the last 20 years, while my physical technology has endured a 20-year decline lol...

 

I'd like more distance in the driver, because that's one area that I'm sure it can be found, along with a lot more forgiveness. But for all the rest of the bag, it's more about finding the right shaft for my swing and hopefully getting into a more forgiving head. I might end up with more distance than I currently get based on the number on the bottom of the club because lofts have strengthened over 20 years, but I'm not particularly chasing any distance on a loft-for-loft basis.

 

I hit the ball plenty far; I'm chasing consistency and forgiveness.

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I believe the only reason you should change is if you think you're leaving considerable distance on the table (10+ yards). If you could find another driver that you could take the exact same swing you always take and see 15 more yards it would absolutely be worth it.

 

It would be worth looking into with the age of the drivers you're using.

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I bought an R7 years ago from 2nd Swing.  $29 and that included shipping.  Had the Grafalloy Blue shaft that Stenson has in in 3W. 

 

I bought a 910F 3W off a buddy and REALLY liked it.  Went looking for a 910D2 and found one on Craigslist for $50.  Pristine top, no head cover.  I didn't like it as much as the 3W but better than the R7.

 

A while ago I wondered how they would compare so I used foot spray for strike and PRGR for CHS/ball speed.  I managed to catch one each in the center with the same CHS/ball flight (straight, same traj) and the 910D2 had a higher ball speed so it stayed.  Not very scientific as there are no spin numbers but I think the 910 is more forgiving.

 

I guess I'm saying that I'm cheap and I'd rather hit fairways.

Driver: Titleist 910 D2 9.75* Diamana Kai'li 65 Mid S 3W: Titleist 910F 16.5 * Diamana Kai'li 75 Mid R 3H: Titleist 910H 19 * Diamana Kai'li 80HYB Mid R 2I: TourModel III True Temper S 3-PW: Mizuno MP 60 True Temper Dynamic Gold S300 S SW: TourModel III True Temper S Putter: Cobra Anvil 005 Ball: Ksig 3 piece

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I am average (not WRX average) and I'm fine with my distance. I can hit the green in regulation and have a chance at par. I don't care what club(s) it took to get there. 

Taylormade M3 driver Mitsubishi Kuro Kage TiNi 70G shaft (cut to 44.5")

Taylormade M1 5 wood

Taylormade M4 19* Hybrid 

Taylormade GAPR Mid 21* Hybrid

KZG Forged 2-M cavity back 4-6 

KZG Forged Blade 7-PW

Mitsubishi Kuro Kage 80g iron shafts

Lazrus 52/8 and 56/12 wedges

Tour "Percision" [sic] Milled TP-M5 putter

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I see two types of change in golf equipment; cosmetic and internal design.  Making a change for cosmetics is a waste of money, but there are times when the new-design cycle has changes that can be beneficial for some, not all. 

 

From my 2006 905S 9.5 with fully inserted Grafalloy Blue "S" driver to 2019 TS2 9.5 with Ventus Velocore Red 5 Series "S", there's noticeable difference in how the shafts perform with the respective heads.  The latter driver is keeping this 70yr old in the game, against guys much younger.  Knowing how a club performs is very important same goes for the ball, but there comes a time when change must be considered.

 

I don't change irons very often or putters.  Since 2000 I've changed irons 5 times, my putter was bought in 2011, wedges in 2017.  If I change anything often, it's been shafts.  Technology is evolving faster in the graphite shaft sector.  Early in 2020 I bought new shafts for TS2 driver and 4wd.  It was a costly gamble that paid off.  Jan this year bought new shafts for my 620's; moving from PX to graphite Tensei AV White AM "S", which also paid off.  The pay-off is greater stability and distance; worth it YES.

Edited by Pepperturbo
  • Titleist TS2 9.5', Ventus 5 "S"
  • Titleist TS2 16', Ventus 7 "S"
  • Titleist 718 T-MB 2i "S"
  • Titleist 620 Series 3i-PW "S"
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  • SC CA Monterey
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Kind of glad to go after Pepperturbo on this because my current irons are what he used to play.  Titleist 735cm's....remember that from an old post of his.  I will wear these out before I ever quit on them.

 

From your post, I think you have the most important thing covered.  Having the correct club for the correct distance.  Granted todays 4 iron goes farther than 15 years ago, but you will still need the clubs to cover the shorter distances.

 

There are some gains that can be from newer clubs.  Went from a TM R7 to an SLDR & last year to a M5.  Besides the distance gain, the face helps with the off-center strike so I find more fairways than I used to.  The R7 was a blueboard shaft, the SLDR was a speeder 7.2 & the M5 is a tensi white.  For the longest time my 2 wedges were old oil can 256 Vokey's.  End of last season I replaced them with SM8's & still cannot believe the difference.

 

So I would say there are gains to be made, but you need to really access where you might need the change.  The score card does not care how far you hit the ball, just how many times you hit it.

 

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The gains to be had are forgiveness in my eye. I don’t need any more distance.  I already hit a PW 150 and a driver long enough but often a few fairways over lol. 

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Given your hdcp, if you remain happy with your irons, wedges, and putter there is nothing to gain.

 

You MIGHT - or might not - find some benefit in driver, fairway, or hybrid if you decide to move on from your current long irons.

 

Fitting is great in theory but in practice it often comes up short due to quality of fitter, balls, equipment options, etc.  The best, by far, cost-benefit option I’ve found in that regard is the Titleist Thursday.  In my area they were free, outdoor, with Trackman, used decent range balls, and the rep had a pretty expansive range of shaft options.  You could book an appointment, bring your long clubs to hit as reference, and see if he can offer you meaningful change.  You are never under any obligation - or even pressured - to buy.

 

If you find something useful, you can expand the search to other OEMs with similar heads and shafts.  Or, you may simply confirm that your equipment is still holding its own quite well.

 

 

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I don't think that it is so much of the "added distance" they market each year as it is retaining distance on strikes across the face.  If I take out my 905R and hit it on the screws, it can still somewhat compete with my TSi3 (905R was never a lower spinning head as we know), but not on strikes out of the center.  When looking at it that way in terms of keeping stuff more in play and distance, it isn't even close.

 

As with most OEM's, they have been producing very good quality gear for a number of years now.  Fairways even further back in many solid options going back 7+ years now that can all be had at a good value (covid pricing aside on the secondary market).

 

New gear is fun to get.  I had zero reason to have bought a set of 620s this morning, but I did anyway cause the MB's get me feeling all warm and fuzzy.

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Titleist TS2 16.5* Fuji Pro 2.0 7X

Titleist TS3 19* Tensei Raw AV Blue X

Ping I500 4i, I210 5-UW TI S400

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41 minutes ago, GLF4EVR said:

From your post, I think you have the most important thing covered.  Having the correct club for the correct distance.  Granted todays 4 iron goes farther than 15 years ago, but you will still need the clubs to cover the shorter distances.

 

 

Does it though? 

 

I'm playing 20 year old clubs, and hit up the PGATSS yesterday because I wanted to try the Mizuno Shaft Optimizer. Turns out it wasn't available, so the guy let me hit a couple shafts based on what I thought I was looking for.

 

It was a JPX921 Hot Metal 7i head. And I was clearly getting more distance than my current 7i head. Probably 15-20 yards.

 

But the Hot Metal was a 29 degree 7i. I mean, that's not the MOST egregious example of loft-jacking out there (the T400), but I'm sure that's might be in the range of 5 degrees stronger than my current 7i. 

 

I could easily be persuaded that today's irons are going farther on off-center hits than the irons of yore, but on center-face contact I'm not sure that loft-for-loft we've seen much advance at all. 

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I think there are some cycles of great technological advances; they must be 5/6 years cycles, like from the TM R1 to the Epic or the first TM metal woods to the titanium Great Big Bertha. That’s some extra distance you get just by shopping new tech.  

 

Personally I’ve been hitting the same distance for the past twenty years; I’m far from a GolfWRX power hitter but I try to find technology to make hitting easier. So I’m a big fan of GI clubs from putter to driver. I no longer care about aesthetics or looks. Anyway I’m very pragmatic and if I see a towering 4 iron to the green I don’t mind if it’s chunky with offset and a thick sole. It’s helped keep a decent game for me for many years now. And I used to be a blade and persimmon  purist in the early 90s. 

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With my driver I want the longest playable shot possible.  I'll always test new gear in the effort of being incrementally longer or have a slightly higher percentage of balls in playable position.

 

With the 3 wood, I want the longest playable (to include launch and sufficient spin) shot that I can get off the fairway.

 

Everything else is all about specific gapping and spin rates/accuracy.

 

I'll always try new clubs though, because it's fun for me and I get bored easily.

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10 hours ago, BURKMI19 said:

Hey all, I'd be interested in feedback and opinions here on this topic.  I hope it's not a re-up of something already actively going.  Anyway, I've never been one to jump on the newest equipment available, although I have taken new things for a test run before to not much fanfare.  To be honest I don't think I actually legitimately noticed enough distance gain to justify it.  My gamer goes between a Titeist 905 and 983, both of which were released 15+ years ago.  I know exactly what they do and how far the ball flies.  My irons and wedges I have kept the same specs for since college, so same thing there that I know exactly what to expect.  Sorry to ramble, here is my question I guess.  Is it truly important for you to make changes to newer equipment as often as you can specifically to gain distance, or is it more important to know what the club does and not change?  I'm really curious here as to the general consensus, thanks.


Change equipment as often as you can chasing yardage not mandatory

but I’m confident you can find better performance than a 20yr old titleist driver. Neither were particular standouts when they were new

new irons will just require hitting one less club unless you retro spec lofts

 

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G400 10.5 PWR 65
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My back up Driver is a Titleist 905r and my current driver is a Ping G410 lst with the shaft 1 inch shorter than the Titleist 905r. I get the same ball speed within 1mph of each driver when flushed. 
 

The Ping is way more forgiving when not flushed, it is also way lower spin. Since the Ping is fit for me, my overall distance gain is probably 20-25 yards on average. 
 

It’s worth getting fit. 
 

Buying something off the shelf may be an improvement, maybe not. If you test a few on your own you may see an improvement, but getting fit, you would have a far better likelihood of finding what club will get you in optimum launch and spin windows. 

 

 

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Honestly, I don't believe it is.  My current Radspeed driver with a $300 aftermarket shaft I drive 313-318 after roll out.  Sometimes I will hit my old Ping G10 9 degree with a ProLaunch x stiff shaft and it is dead straight and just over 300 after roll out.  

 

The thing is it is sure fun to try to chase that distance especially when I turned 40.

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Once you get current,  changing often isn't that essential.  

 

Usually 2 cycles for drivers and irons for me...but ping can sometimes make you wait much longer as their cycles are already long, plus recent sets they just didn't improve or haven't gotten around to replacing (S55/iBlade).  

 

Fittings and more specifically fiters are hit or miss.  Now that I've learned about trackman, what the numbers mean, know what I feel and what that means...I can be confident a fit set will work. 

 

Also found a great fitter and have followed him around. He moved an hour and a half away and I still go to him. I also will be moving and I'll come back to him...free fittings make me happy.  And he knows what I need.  So, take time, don't buy on first take when you're new to it. Get a full bag fitting and split it over a two days. See if you are consistent between the days. 

 

I do believe anyone can benefit from a fitting, but new players or high cappers should find loft/lie/length first then find something that's fairly "stock" if possible.  Imo of course.  A newbie hitting exotic shafts makes me cringe.   Maybe it works, maybe money isn't an issue.  

 

I've used the same shafts for 3 turns of drivers, 2 turns of woods and two full sets of irons plus wedges. Once you find the good ones, in my experience, hard to find another that outperforms unless you have significant swing changes.  Which I avoid...I'm the opposite on the lessons debate. Wasn't ever a thing for me.  

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PING G425 Max 5Wd 16.5* Fuji XLR8 61

PING G425 Max 7Wd 20* Fuji Motore F3 70

PING i500 3-PW KBS CTaper Lite 110 Stiff

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If you are strictly talking about lowering scores, then yes chasing distance off the tee will help reduce scores more than any other part of the game if your accuracy is not reduced too much. It’s all there in the strokes gained data. Whether or not the changes in cost, enjoyment, etc. are worth it is a personal matter.

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1 hour ago, NotThatGuyorAmI? said:

 

Sorry, but the idea is “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.”

 

 

 

 

I can agree to a certain extent.  Every bit of forgiveness off the tee matters.  Drivers these days lose less ball speed on off center strikes.  Shafts these days can help lessen the curve of errant drives through new materials.  I don't know about you, but I welcome more forgiveness and higher balls speeds on mis hits.  Then again I'm a high ss player therefore my misses can be catastrophic if my swing is off. 

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