Jump to content

Dialing back iron distance for consistency?


Recommended Posts

Just now, extrastiff said:

I would love to see some research on “imbalance” training being a completely negative training technique. Only thing I can find is that it is not good for “all workouts”. Even those articles seem to acknowledge it has benefits in certain applications 

For rehab, ie someone post-surgical or post-injury sure its fine, anytime else, pretty pointless IMO. 

 

For normal people who are healthy, it makes little sense. Stability is gained from placing a joint under load and stabilizing it. This is proportional to the load ( with obviously diminishing marginal results at very high loads). If you stand on a bosu ball, your body freaks out and senses that its unstable and limits your ability to produce force, ie you have less ability to load the joint. Its like handicapping yourself for no point. If you had to pick 100 lbs off the ground, would you rather do it standing on flat ground or on a bosu ball? 

 

The main thing bosu balls do is limit your ability to load your joints, which limits the activation of stabilizers needed to stabilize. You have complex feedback mechanisms that signal to your body when its safe and unsafe to produce force. So if your body senses that you're on an unsteady surface, it lowers your force production. Tons of studies have shown that muscular activation correlates way more with load than these instability concepts. Again, just because something feels harder, doesn't mean it elicits a beneficial training response. 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 63
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Smashing mid and long irons is fine if you can control distance.   Smashing short Irons is a disaster.  Every golf school and playing lesson I give, there are always multiple people who are

yeah, that was me today.  My coach was watching me hit the 6-iron and said "swing easy". Once I swung he said "see, that was like a 1st or 2nd gear swing for you-it still went 150.  You hit the ball a

I found it shocking that I lose only about 5-10 m when feeling like I swing at 60%.    Also, I had a few tricky approaches lately, where I just couldn’t miss one one side, and I took more club

I swing about 90-95% on most iron shots because anything less for me seems to mess with my tempo. When I swing out of my shoes there really isn’t any difference for about 85% of my swing; it’s really just the last bit (cast #2 or the throw on Monte’s NTC through the ball) that adds the horsepower.

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Smashing mid and long irons is fine if you can control distance.

 

Smashing short Irons is a disaster.  Every golf school and playing lesson I give, there are always multiple people who are significantly shorter than me off the tee.  30-60 yards...they are hitting the same, or even less club than me into the green. I have them hit 2 more clubs than their “stock” and the vast majority improve proximity on the spot.  The ones that don’t are the ones that tend to keep their backswing long and slow through impact.

 

Shorter swing and less speed is almost universally successful long term when it comes to dialing in 7 on down.

 

Im 120+/180+ with driver and here are my yardages.  125/185 on occasional good days

 

2-240

4-225

5-210

6-195

7-180

8-165

9-150

PW-135

GW-120

SW-105

LW-90

 

Can I hit a PW 150-160?  Yes and without looking like I’m a hernia waiting to happen.  Spin and trajectory control are atrocious.

 

I can hit a 7 close to 200 without looking like I’m over swinging, but proximity to the hole versus a 5/6 and way worse.

 

 

 

This reminded me of my very first golf swing lesson about 35 years ago.  I was a relative beginner, having only played for about two years, and was shooting in the mid/high 40's in our weekly 9 hole golf league.  My golf league partner was a scratch player that grew up playing golf every day (sometimes even 72 holes/day) and hit it about 50 yards past me off the tee.  He could hit it about 290 with an original Taylormade "Pittsburgh Persimmon" steel driver and balata balls.  So I went to see a local pro.  He had me warm up, and then asked me to hit some 7 irons toward a green at 140 yards.  I was nervous and wanted to do well.  So instead of trying to hit it hard, like I usually did, I intentionally made smooth swings and hit 10 in a row onto that green.  He just looked at me and asked "That looks good, why are you here?"  All I could say was "I swear I don't ever hit it that well, and I want to get better."  That's all I remember from that lesson, but I should have ingrained that lesson better, as I still almost always try to hit it hard. LoL

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Years ago I had a hip bump forward DURING THE BACKSWING/takeaway to keep me from hitting it left, it was mental I didn't even know I did it.  I had lost a ton of distance as a result and went to my pro to get some help.  He quickly diagnosed the problem.  Prior to this development I was flying my 7i 150'ish (by the time I took the lesson it was down to 130).  After the lesson I was hitting the exact same 7i 175 yards.  I was giddy with my newfound distance and towering shots.  I was ready for the senior tour.  I also developed a two miss, hit about half the greens I had prior to the lesson and my handicap went from a 3 to an 8.  But, wow was I smashing the ball.

 

Today, I still have to focus on not bumping the left hip, but hit my 7i about 150 again and my handicap has dropped again.

 

Monte posted about this very idea about 2 months ago.  Lots of folks do this and have better success.

Edited by Petethreeput
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, pinhigh27 said:

Why would holding something after the ball is gone have any effect? The ability to hold the finish is secondary to a good sequence and not being out of control. 

 

It doesn't have to do with proprioception or any of the junk that people claim and have people stand on bosu balls, it's just having a good swing that works. 

You may be right on the science thing, I'm not scientist at all.  But I can tell if a player holds their finish you most likely have a good shot and a good player.  Go for an hour to the first tee on your course on Saturday morning and count them down.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, naval2006 said:

You may be right on the science thing, I'm not scientist at all.  But I can tell if a player holds their finish you most likely have a good shot and a good player.  Go for an hour to the first tee on your course on Saturday morning and count them down.  

Right, but that's not due to their proprioception or their balance. It's having a decent swing and swinging in control. 

 

The claim was made that holding your finish increases your chances of hitting it flush. The ball is already gone. The finish is a result of a good motion that is in control. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

This is where I am. We've talked @RoyalMustang in other threads, and I think you're a bit ahead of me regarding dropping your cap--I hope to catch up 😉

 

If 100% effort = 100% swing speed, it's not true that 80% effort = 80% swing speed. I honestly feel when I'm swinging "easy", i.e. 80% effort, that I'm ending up around 97% swing speed based on how far the ball flies, and it's WAY more consistent. 

 

 

yeah, I have been there!  That is what I am learning: 80% effort and tempo equals 95% distance and control. 

 

Another thing my coach noted: he said "I bet you come in hot, make a perfect swing, and hit that PW 150 on occasion, right". I was like "yeah, how did you know?"  Talk about a score destroying shot....he said his goal in working with me is to eliminate that miss.  The full hard swing, caught it a bit thin, and now I flew the green by 20 yards.  

 

Hopefully my cap continues to come down: I have only played 1 round in 2 weeks, but have been practicing a ton. I was able to get out onto the par 3 course the other day and hit a ton of balls when it was quiet on these longer par 3s, Just trying to figure out what a 5 iron vs a 6 iron feels like from 190 depending on wind and swing, and what a 90-yard wedge should be from the fairway on a windy day.  Also, how do I avoid the "bad miss".  what if I catch it a little fat and the pin is short-sided, just in front a bunker: do I club up and play it safe?  It is one thing to miss the green by 4 feet pin high and be chipping from 30 feet; another entirely to be 35 yards from the pin with that 2nd shot due to a arm swing with a strong draw.  I see the better players out there with "on course" practice in the evenings on the par 30.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

Disagree.  Tell me why many pro athletes do balance work on the bosu ball.   It's not for craps and giggles.  Do you know any pro golfers that always fall back on their feet and make excellent contact?  Didn't think so.  They all have great balance.  You have anomalies like Bubba but even he poses after he hits his irons.  Most if not all pro golfers that work out do balance work.  I have a + cap guy and my buddy who's on the Mackenzie Tour that I train that do balance work in the gym 3x a week.  Also have a client who has offers for a full ride at 5 colleges for baseball. 

 

Balance work never hurts: look at Mikaela Shiffrin.  A big part of her routine growing up was riding a unicycle while juggling.  If you can do that, you can find the limits of balance on a ski, both edge to edge and fore to aft.

 

Golf may not be AS balance intensive as ski racing (which is arguably the most athletic sport on the planet), but that sensitivity through the feet to the hands is key to anyone playing well.  Feet steady up through the kinetic chain and the rest of the body does what it needs to do.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

My stock shot is a full out rip.  Slow messes up my rhythm and release.  I generally tend to hold onto the release with a slower tempo.  

In the bag

Driver: Taylormade Sim2 Max

4w: Callaway Mavrik Sub Zero

UT:  Callaway X Forged UT 21' 18*

Irons: Callaway Apex CF 19 4i-AW

W1: Vokey SM7 54* S

W2: Vokey SM8 60* L

Putter: Scotty Cameron Select Newport 2.5

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, pinhigh27 said:

Why would holding something after the ball is gone have any effect? The ability to hold the finish is secondary to a good sequence and not being out of control. 

 

It doesn't have to do with proprioception or any of the junk that people claim and have people stand on bosu balls, it's just having a good swing that works. 


Well then why don't you just let go of the club after impact?

Or why not just stop the follow through with the shaft parallel to the ground every time?

Obviously what happens on the follow through, after the ball is gone, is a reaction to what happened on the backswing and downswing and through impact.

 

It's all connected, and the ability to hold your finish on your left foot generally means that you had good sequencing and good balance. 

Holding your finish is a clear indicator that you are "in control". 

I'm not saying you absolutely must hold your finish to hit good shots. I'm just saying it's generally something to aspire to. And it generally means you swung with good rhythm, tempo, proper speed...all things you want. Which is why Tiger uses it as the litmus test on whether you are swinging too hard.

 

spacer.png

spacer.pngspacer.png

Edited by straightshot7
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, pinhigh27 said:

For rehab, ie someone post-surgical or post-injury sure its fine, anytime else, pretty pointless IMO. 

 

For normal people who are healthy, it makes little sense. Stability is gained from placing a joint under load and stabilizing it. This is proportional to the load ( with obviously diminishing marginal results at very high loads). If you stand on a bosu ball, your body freaks out and senses that its unstable and limits your ability to produce force, ie you have less ability to load the joint. Its like handicapping yourself for no point. If you had to pick 100 lbs off the ground, would you rather do it standing on flat ground or on a bosu ball? 

 

The main thing bosu balls do is limit your ability to load your joints, which limits the activation of stabilizers needed to stabilize. You have complex feedback mechanisms that signal to your body when its safe and unsafe to produce force. So if your body senses that you're on an unsteady surface, it lowers your force production. Tons of studies have shown that muscular activation correlates way more with load than these instability concepts. Again, just because something feels harder, doesn't mean it elicits a beneficial training response. 

 

 

 

Sorry I know the perspective you presented already.... I was looking for actual research that says it’s “pretty pointless”.
 

As u pointed out tho, it’s used extensively to activate and strengthen compensatory structures in rehab, so definitely known to potentially do something “stable” rehab does not. 

 

no one is saying “ only use bosu ball.” Obviously 100 lb lifts should be on stable ground. 
 

so if you can show research (aka scientifically significant research studies, not just health journal opinion-pieces)  that says healthy people don’t benefit at all, would love to see it

Edited by extrastiff

Radspeed 8, 13.5, 17.5/hzrdusgreentx                                                           Radspeed 21/tz4100m5+
Utility one length 3,4 iron/mmt105tx
                                                              Forged one length 6-9/x100 wedge onyx

vokey 46*8, 54*8, 62*8/s400 wedge onyx                                                    phantom x5/stabilitytour

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, extrastiff said:

Sorry I know the perspective you presented already.... I was looking for actual research that says it’s “pretty pointless”.
 

As u pointed out tho, it’s used extensively to activate and strengthen compensatory structures in rehab, so definitely known to potentially do something “stable” rehab does not. 

 

no one is saying “ only use bosu ball.” Obviously 100 lb lifts should be on stable ground. 

You want me to send you abstracts that you can't access the whole thing? What good would that do.  You can find it yourself, if you want.

 

In rehab the joint was injured and all the proprioception of the joint is screwed up because it hasn't been used normally. So you want to slowly reintroduce loading to the joint while limiting force production.  This isn't the case with a normal healthy person. 

 

Again lets think about this physiologically, what exactly happens when you stand on a bosu ball and lift weights? You think activation in stabilizers increases more so than it would from simply increasing the load? Do you think neuromuscular efficiency improves? How is it beneficial? 

 

Standing on a bosu ball and lifting weights for a healthy person is like saying your goal is to swing 120 mph but you're going to put a resistance band to pull the club away from the ball and reduce your speed through impact. It's simply fundamentally handicapping yourself. 

 

And it sure as heck isn't going to make you stay balanced through impact any better. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, pinhigh27 said:

You want me to send you abstracts that you can't access the whole thing? What good would that do.  You can find it yourself, if you want.

 

In rehab the joint was injured and all the proprioception of the joint is screwed up because it hasn't been used normally. So you want to slowly reintroduce loading to the joint while limiting force production.  This isn't the case with a normal healthy person. 

 

Again lets think about this physiologically, what exactly happens when you stand on a bosu ball and lift weights? You think activation in stabilizers increases more so than it would from simply increasing the load? Do you think neuromuscular efficiency improves? How is it beneficial? 

 

Standing on a bosu ball and lifting weights for a healthy person is like saying your goal is to swing 120 mph but you're going to put a resistance band to pull the club away from the ball and reduce your speed through impact. It's simply fundamentally handicapping yourself. 

 

And it sure as heck isn't going to make you stay balanced through impact any better. 

I did not say anything about lifting weights on the ball.  

I don’t want to find it myself.  I was just hoping since you seem to think you know so much, you would be willing to supply some actual scientific facts/tests that inform your opinion (that you are presenting as absolute facts). But, I understand now you cannot/ will not. 
 

And yes, abstracts work for me. In fact I prefer succinct summaries of lengthy studies. 

 

Edited by extrastiff
  • Like 1

Radspeed 8, 13.5, 17.5/hzrdusgreentx                                                           Radspeed 21/tz4100m5+
Utility one length 3,4 iron/mmt105tx
                                                              Forged one length 6-9/x100 wedge onyx

vokey 46*8, 54*8, 62*8/s400 wedge onyx                                                    phantom x5/stabilitytour

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/16/2021 at 5:12 AM, phizzy30 said:

Ok bro, it seems as though you know a lot more than me on this topic.  Balance work helps greatly with hip stability which is a must for golf.  I train people from all walks of life for a living.  Many highly regarded trainers also do balance work with their clients as well with bosu balls and other equipment but you seem to know more than they do. 

Although, very few will disagree with you, I believe you could have simply stated what happens at follow through is indicative of what happens before hand.

 

Everyone generally agrees a decent follow through is generally a good indication of a decent swing, but there are exceptions. Though not many.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I find myself adding a 1/2 a club as a baseline for every approach shot and then compile factors over it. Funky lies where I'm tilted side to side or up/down hill automatically get 1 extra as baseline. Got balance? 

 

One time I was listening to a major NFL expert and he stated that most guys who make a living accessing NFL talent agree that Lawrence Taylor was perhaps the best defensive NFL player ever. The reason? They couldn't knock him down. His sense of balance was that much greater that he could not be stopped at the scrimmage line. I see this kind of thing in basketball too. Great shooters have impeccable dynamic balance. My kid plays AAU ball and is good enough to go on and play in college. Watch young ones enough you'll see it, the cream handle their balance better. Golf is not any different.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Pros care about *controlling* distance with irons, where most Ams seem to care more about *maxing* distance. Totally different way of looking at things. 
 

What feels like a 3/4 swing to me usually flies the same as the max distance for the next shorter iron, but it’s a much more accurate shot. Not sure why I don’t use that approach 100% of the time. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Iron play at the amateur level is first about getting launch direction to match your curvature.  Then from there it's about ball speed and spin.  If you dial it back with the irons then you might make more consistent contact and get the appropriate speed for the shot, but you may not get a high enough spin rate.  The trajectory will flatten out and it may be difficult to get to the ball to hold the green and in particular have trouble hitting it close on front pin locations.  

 

You'd actually be surprised how the shots that go long on par-3's on Tour are often some of the slowest ball speeds for that shot in the tournament.  It's just that their spin is low as well and thus they go longer.

 

But that often beats missing short due to not enough ball speed.  Particularly in US courses where designers routinely penalize players for missing approach shots short of the green (unlike links style where you're more likely to be able to run the ball up to the green).  

 

 

 

 


RH

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, RichieHunt said:

Iron play at the amateur level is first about getting launch direction to match your curvature.  Then from there it's about ball speed and spin.  If you dial it back with the irons then you might make more consistent contact and get the appropriate speed for the shot, but you may not get a high enough spin rate.  The trajectory will flatten out and it may be difficult to get to the ball to hold the green and in particular have trouble hitting it close on front pin locations.  

 

You'd actually be surprised how the shots that go long on par-3's on Tour are often some of the slowest ball speeds for that shot in the tournament.  It's just that their spin is low as well and thus they go longer.

 

But that often beats missing short due to not enough ball speed.  Particularly in US courses where designers routinely penalize players for missing approach shots short of the green (unlike links style where you're more likely to be able to run the ball up to the green).  

 

 

 

 


RH

Your posts are always fascinating to me. I think you have forgotten more than I have ever known.  Are you advocating for not dialing down?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Petethreeput said:

Your posts are always fascinating to me. I think you have forgotten more than I have ever known.  Are you advocating for not dialing down?

RoyalMustang is choosing between 70% or so versus 80% to 90%.
 

Richie appears to be stating that a bit more spin can mostly be beneficial.

 

If I had to guess, there’s a point where you back off to “third gear” whilst not losing significant spin? Perhaps, you would need to trade off depending upon the circumstances.

Edited by Lincoln_Arcadia
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Petethreeput said:

Your posts are always fascinating to me. I think you have forgotten more than I have ever known.  Are you advocating for not dialing down?

 

Thanks for the kind words.

 

I'm not advocating for anything other than understanding what goes into 'dialing down' or 'dialing up.'  

 

The more one looks at this game the easier it is to see that there is not a singular perfect solution.  It's more about finding out what works best for the individual.  And even that isn't about a perfect solution for that player...it's about comparative analysis.  

 

And there are a lot of factors involved, even down to the type of courses one plays.

 

 

 

 

 

RH

 

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Depends on the club ... I see alot problems when people try to swing 'easy' with longer to mid irons (often they make the swing length too long and decelerate body or arms into impact)

 

if your a better player ... short iron control shots should be in shot selection

 

Im an instructor and play off 2.3 (working to get to a plus by age 30, im 25 now)

Driver is going around 285 (I use be much longer ... I'm not trying to swing slower ... it just happens lol)

 

21.5*: 210-220

25*: 195-205

29*; 175 - 190

33*; 165 -175

38*; 130 - 170

43*; 100 - 155

48*; 85 - 140

51*; 125 yards and in

58*; 85 yards and in

63*; 65 yards and in

 

the clubs in bold are the ones I practice with the most and will hit a ton of shots 40 - 80 yards with each and practice hitting them high and low with draws or fades

 

If you can't take 40 yards off a 9 iron ... there is something wrong with your swing

 

  • Like 2

Driver: Taylormade M2 ('17) 10.5* ; Accura MV85x PINK 1 of 1

3 wood: Taylormade Aeroburner TP 15*; Diamana Blueboard 72X

Hybrid: PXG Gen1 19* (set 18*) Hzardus Handcrafted Black 100x (Not getting alot of use)

Irons: PXG Gen1 0311 4-7 iron; Aldila RIP Phenom Hybrid 100 Tour X (Lofts; 17.5*, 21*, 25*, 29*)

          NIKE Vapor Pro Combo 6, 8, 9, PW; Aldila VS Proto 100x (Lofts; 33*, 38*, 43*, 48*)

Wedges: Scratch 53* (bent 51*); TT DG S300 , Callaway MD4 Raw 54*, 58*; TT DG S300

               Custom Wedge 63* (made buddy made it); KBS Tour Stiff

Putter: Scotty Cameron Studio Design MB #5; 35 inches; Super Stroke GP Tour

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/15/2021 at 3:27 PM, Barfolomew said:

I was at range yesterday.... watching guys swing really hard almost tells you they don't score well vs the guy hitting butter with control and balance you know they have more potential to score.

 

Regarding pros distances..... I have to always remind myself that their clubs are so PERFECTLY fitted to them to the millimeter and the model is the absolute best one even if forced to one brand, they try sooo many shafts and clubs even within the same model lol. It's just on a different level, even if you physically hit the same they will always have the club advantage..... heck I've never been fitted and play random used clubs that I've gotten used to, my putter doesn't fit me well as I like a very low lie angle so had to drill out the hole and JB weld the shaft back in and still manage par golf..... Cleveland wedges are my only new clubs only tried a launch monitor for giggles at a box store for only a couple hits and these guys live on launch monitors and tweak their clubs as much as needed.  Even rich amateurs that have all the goodies are not on the same level as pros clubs... "hey Bobby lets try 1 degree lie difference for this mornings practice then 2 degrees for the afternoon and see what's better in the today's wind....." lol

So I came here to start a new thread but this is too close to the topic for me... I'm the guy swinging hard and getting frustrated. I KNOW that my swing is fine when I'm backing off slightly from "max effort" but I cannot help myself on the course. A single swing added 3 strokes to my score Saturday and was the difference between T1 and T5 in my monthly tournament. 164 to a front flag on a par 5, lying 1. I walked away with a 7 🤬. My "stock" 8 iron would go 160, Stock 7 would go 175... I pulled the 8 and went stock + a little bit and the ball went 120 into a pond, the huge divot went a solid 30 though!... I then proceeded to rush through the drop, pitch (thinned), chip (too aggressive) and 2 putt for my lovely double.

 

My question is: What do you tell yourself standing over your bag before you pull a club? How do you prevent the "hero" part of your brain from making the decision? I've been at this game for about 25 years and have faced this decision thousands of times, I've made the "right" decision far less than half of them... despite negative reinforcement, consistently, throughout the years...

 

Help me be less idiotic on the course please 🙂

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Santiago Golf said:

If you can't take 40 yards off a 9 iron ... there is something wrong with your swing

 

B-I-NGO! 

 

Need the ability to take speed off clubs and add speed to longer irons (maybe 7iron on up) to score really well. 

M5 (9.0), Tensei CK Pro White 70TX, Z-Grip

M5 (15.0), Tensei CK Pro White 70TX, Z-Grip

(A-Most Days) TSi2 18.0, Tensei AV Raw White 85TX, -0.5", Z-Grip 

(B-Windy Days) DHY Proto 18, Diamana D+ 90X, Z-Grip 

i200 (4i), S56 (5-W), PX 7.0, Red Dot, Z-Grip 

Glide 3.0 (51.13, 55.13, 60.06TS), PX 6.5 Blackout, Red Dot, Z-Grip

Dual Force Rossie #1 (45", 79 lie)

Pro V1X

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, b.mattay said:

B-I-NGO! 

 

Need the ability to take speed off clubs and add speed to longer irons (maybe 7iron on up) to score really well. 

 

When I passed my PAT was the best I ever was as an Iron Player (hanicap was prolly somewhere between 5 - 8 because Driver was losing shots, very poor putting)

 

At the time my 7 iron was a stock 180 club but if I wanted to it go around 200

 

If you can't add 20 yards to a 6iron up, same idea, something is wrong with your swing

  • Like 1

Driver: Taylormade M2 ('17) 10.5* ; Accura MV85x PINK 1 of 1

3 wood: Taylormade Aeroburner TP 15*; Diamana Blueboard 72X

Hybrid: PXG Gen1 19* (set 18*) Hzardus Handcrafted Black 100x (Not getting alot of use)

Irons: PXG Gen1 0311 4-7 iron; Aldila RIP Phenom Hybrid 100 Tour X (Lofts; 17.5*, 21*, 25*, 29*)

          NIKE Vapor Pro Combo 6, 8, 9, PW; Aldila VS Proto 100x (Lofts; 33*, 38*, 43*, 48*)

Wedges: Scratch 53* (bent 51*); TT DG S300 , Callaway MD4 Raw 54*, 58*; TT DG S300

               Custom Wedge 63* (made buddy made it); KBS Tour Stiff

Putter: Scotty Cameron Studio Design MB #5; 35 inches; Super Stroke GP Tour

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/17/2021 at 5:24 PM, RichieHunt said:

Iron play at the amateur level is first about getting launch direction to match your curvature.  Then from there it's about ball speed and spin.  If you dial it back with the irons then you might make more consistent contact and get the appropriate speed for the shot, but you may not get a high enough spin rate.  The trajectory will flatten out and it may be difficult to get to the ball to hold the green and in particular have trouble hitting it close on front pin locations.  

 

You'd actually be surprised how the shots that go long on par-3's on Tour are often some of the slowest ball speeds for that shot in the tournament.  It's just that their spin is low as well and thus they go longer.

 

But that often beats missing short due to not enough ball speed.  Particularly in US courses where designers routinely penalize players for missing approach shots short of the green (unlike links style where you're more likely to be able to run the ball up to the green).  

 

 

Question... What is the primary driver of spin on a medium to short iron shot? 

 

Is it the clubhead speed, or the angle of attack, or just a mix of the two? 

 

If it's the angle of attack, I'd say most amateurs are screwed because most aren't hitting down on the ball with negative AoA like a pro anyway. 

 

If it's more the clubhead speed, then I could see amateurs running into spin problems by taking something off the club. But if that's the case, most are screwed because their clubhead speed at 100% doesn't even come close to the pros at 80%. 

 

But I feel like when you watch players who can get bite on partial wedge shots so effectively, that there has to be more of it in the technique than the clubhead speed... A pro who can hit a 30-40 yard hop and stop shot certainly isn't putting a lot of speed on the ball, but they get plenty of spin. 

 

Thoughts? 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Our picks

    • Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Discussion and Links
      Please put any question or comments here.
       
      Links to the galleries...
      2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #1
      2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #2
      2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #3
      2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #4
      2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #5
      2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #6
      2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #7
      2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #8
      2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #9
       
      Adam Svensson with new model of Puma golf shoes - 2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry)
       


       
      2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #1
      2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #2
      2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #3
      2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #4
      2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #5
      2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #6
      2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #7
      2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #8
      2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry) - Tuesday #9
       
      Adam Svensson with new model of Puma golf shoes - 2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry)
       

       
        • Like
      • 4 replies
    • 2021 Palmetto Championship @ Congaree - Discussion and Links
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       

       
      2021 Palmetto Championship @ Congaree - Tuesday #1
      2021 Palmetto Championship @ Congaree - Tuesday #2
      2021 Palmetto Championship @ Congaree - Tuesday #3
      2021 Palmetto Championship @ Congaree - Tuesday #4
      2021 Palmetto Championship @ Congaree - Tuesday #5
      2021 Palmetto Championship @ Congaree - Tuesday #6
       
       

       
       
      Bryson Nimmer's Bettinardi putter - 2021 Palmetto Championship @ Congaree
      Dustin Johnson's got the putter try-outs going on - 2021 Palmetto Championship @ Congaree
      Scotty Cameron putters - 2021 Palmetto Championship @ Congaree
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 35 replies
    • 2021 Memorial - Discussion & Links
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       

       
      2021 Memorial - Tuesday #1
      2021 Memorial - Tuesday #2
      2021 Memorial - Tuesday #3
      2021 Memorial - Tuesday #4
      2021 Memorial - Tuesday #5
      2021 Memorial - Tuesday #6
      2021 Memorial - Tuesday #7
      2021 Memorial - Tuesday #8
      2021 Memorial - Tuesday #9
       
       
       

       
       
       

       
      Piretti putter & cover for Hideki - 2021 Memorial
      Odyssey putters - 2021 Memorial
      New Odyssey (play like a kid) putter over - 2021 Memorial
      Bettinardi putters & covers - 2021 Memorial
      Ben An's Cameron putter - 2021 Memorial
       
       
      • 27 replies
    • 2021 Charles Schwab Challenge  - Discussion & Links
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       

       
      2021 Charles Schwab Challenge - Tuesday #1
      2021 Charles Schwab Challenge - Tuesday #2
      2021 Charles Schwab Challenge - Tuesday #3
      2021 Charles Schwab Challenge - Tuesday #4
      2021 Charles Schwab Challenge - Tuesday #5
      2021 Charles Schwab Challenge - Tuesday #6
      2021 Charles Schwab Challenge - Tuesday #7
       
       

       
      2021 Charles Schwab Challenge winner will get this Power wagon
      Eric Compton testing Axis 1 putter - 2021 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Cameron putter and new cover - 2021 Charles Schwab Challenge
       
       
      • 7 replies
    • Phil Mickelson Winning WITB from the 2021 PGA Championship
      Phil Mickelson's Winning What's In The Bag? 
       
      Driver: Callaway Epic Speed Triple Diamond (6 degrees @5.5 , green dot cog) Fujikura Ventus Black 6 X (47.9 inches)
      2-wood: TaylorMade “Original One” Mini Driver (11.5 degrees) Fujikura Ventus Black 7 X
      4-wood: (Sunday only): Callaway Mavrik Sub Zero (16.5 degrees) Fujikura Ventus Blue 8 X
      Irons: Callaway X Forged UT (16) (Thursday-Saturday), Callaway X21 UT Proto (19 degrees @20.5, 25), Callaway Apex MB ‘21 (small groove) (6-PW) Shafts- 16* MCA MMT 105 TX, KBS Tour V 125 S+
      Wedges: Callaway PM Grind ’19 “Raw” ([email protected]*, 55-12*, 60-10*) Shafts: KBS Tour V 125 S+
      Putter: Odyssey Milled Blade “Phil Mickelson” SuperStroke Pistol GT Tour
      Ball: Callaway Chrome Soft X (Triple Track)
      Grips: Golf Pride MCC
       
      Link to more pics on the front-page... https://www.golfwrx.com/654804/phil-mickelson-witb-2021-may-pga-championship/
       

       
       
        • Thanks
        • Like
      • 86 replies

×
×
  • Create New...