Bunker trouble

[Pamlico]

This season, I've really been struggling with greenside sand shots. I was pretty proficient at getting out last season but lately, I'm skulling more across the green than getting them on the green.

 

I know all the technical stuff... Open stance, face, hit an inch behind the ball. But, when I actually get in the trap, they go flying across the green.

 

It cost me probably 5 strokes in yesterday's round so I'm really frustrated!

 

[pinhigh27]

well if you're skulling them you aren't hitting an inch behind the ball....

 

don't need to open stance. 

 

Generally people are scared of hitting the sand which leads to them trying to pick it clean and skull it. 

[glk]

7 minutes ago, Pamlico said:

This season, I've really been struggling with greenside sand shots. I was pretty proficient at getting out last season but lately, I'm skulling more across the green than getting them on the green.

 

I know all the technical stuff... Open stance, face, hit an inch behind the ball. But, when I actually get in the trap, they go flying across the green.

 

It cost me probably 5 strokes in yesterday's round so I'm really frustrated!

 

Bunker 101

 

[jobin]

Unfortunately, there are many ways to escape from the sand. Just like chipping: 12 pros may offer 12 different techniques.

So, if you have been subjected to this array of 'how to do it' and do not have a very solid personal sand habit installed, you might be faced with incredible insecurity. 

 

Last week a good player showed me how he does it: ball off right toe, right shoulder way down, smash the sand way behind ball, up/out it pops. Works for him.  But quite contrary to popular opinion.

 

Your solution?  Obviously, greatly increase your confidence via long hours of dedicated practice following a competent instructor.  Ain't easy, matey.

[MonteScheinblum]

2 hours ago, Pamlico said:

This season, I've really been struggling with greenside sand shots. I was pretty proficient at getting out last season but lately, I'm skulling more across the green than getting them on the green.

 

I know all the technical stuff... Open stance, face, hit an inch behind the ball. But, when I actually get in the trap, they go flying across the green.

 

It cost me probably 5 strokes in yesterday's round so I'm really frustrated!

 

Problem is those things are not generally correct. Open stance and an inch behind the ball are greatly reducing your margin of error.  The ball goes where you move the sand.  An open stance makes that harder.  An inch behind the ball is WAY too close.  Most elite golfers are several inches behind the ball.

 

Set up square and move the sand under the ball out fo the bunker and toward the target.

[Coy M]

2 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Problem is those things are not generally correct. Open stance and an inch behind the ball are greatly reducing your margin of error.  The ball goes where you move the sand.  An open stance makes that harder.  An inch behind the ball is WAY too close.  Most elite golfers are several inches behind the ball.

 

Set up square and move the sand under the ball out fo the bunker and toward the target.

+1 on this one, open stance in bunkers has never worked well for me.

[MonteScheinblum]

14 minutes ago, Coy M said:

+1 on this one, open stance in bunkers has never worked well for me.

 

14 minutes ago, Coy M said:

+1 on this one, open stance in bunkers has never worked well for me.

Even for those it does work for, it’s not the easiest way by a long shot.

[CasualLie]

I'm also guessing the pressure with every skulled shot gets amplified and whatever flaw you are introducing into the swing is getting worse.  It becomes a downward spiral.

 

From my experience when I start thinning them from the bunker it's because I lost stability in my setup and drifted off the ball.  Widen the stance, get weight left, keep it left, and as Monte says move the sand.  

[naj959]

I've been working the "Seve Drill" and seen some improvement in my technique over the last couple of weeks. What is the Seve Drill you ask? Get a mid iron and try to hit high soft splash shots out of the bunker. It may take some time but you'll eventually teach yourself how to use the sole of the club to splash the sand under the ball.

[oldpalchamp]

The best tip I ever saw was from an instructor who said not to think of hitting behind the ball, think of hitting under the ball.  My bunker play improved immediately after I tried this.

[b.mattay]

Two things I believe strongly about bunker play: 

 

1.) I believe most people who struggle out of the bunker don't open the face enough at address, so they back out of it to help the ball up or hold the face open to keep loft. 

2.) Most use too much speed and a swing direction too far to the left. Learning to hit soft shots with a 8 iron or pitching wedge does wonders. Clubhead has to track from in-to-in and the release becomes similar to a wedge from the fairway. 

[nsxguy]

On 4/15/2021 at 6:21 PM, Pamlico said:

This season, I've really been struggling with greenside sand shots. I was pretty proficient at getting out last season but lately, I'm skulling more across the green than getting them on the green.

 

I know all the technical stuff... Open stance, face, hit an inch behind the ball. But, when I actually get in the trap, they go flying across the green.

 

It cost me probably 5 strokes in yesterday's round so I'm really frustrated!

 

 

Had this same problem not too long ago.

 

Figured out I was looking at the ball instead of the point I wanted to strike in the sand.

 

Once I started looking at the sand the skulls disappeared.

[596]

As stated above, there are many ways to hit a sand shot.  When I practice sand shots I use a lot of different techniques.  This teaches me which are easiest, longer, shorter, higher, spinnier, flatter, and on and on.  

 

My easiest is by far the weirdest.  From our hard sand, opening a face is death.  You'll skip into a skull all day long.  Our Pro showed me how to close the face 30* and then hit a normal sand shot.  The toe digs, squaring the face, and the ball pops right out.   IF I get looser sand I"ll square the face, square the stance and hit a normal sand shot.  Neither of these have the open stance, open face, hit out to in....those are all death moves for me. 

[tthomasgolfer605]

11 hours ago, b.mattay said:

Two things I believe strongly about bunker play: 

 

1.) I believe most people who struggle out of the bunker don't open the face enough at address, so they back out of it to help the ball up or hold the face open to keep loft. 

2.) Most use too much speed and a swing direction too far to the left. Learning to hit soft shots with a 8 iron or pitching wedge does wonders. Clubhead has to track from in-to-in and the release becomes similar to a wedge from the fairway. 

Most don't use enough speed. It takes about 70mph clubhead speed to hit a proper bunker shot. People who struggle use about half of that. 

[b.mattay]

7 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

Most don't use enough speed. It takes about 70mph clubhead speed to hit a proper bunker shot. People who struggle use about half of that. 

I agree with you if we are talking about beginners. Lots of decent players use too much speed IMO. Really good bunker players don't have that much of a difference if they catch it a little thin (as in 15-20 feet long of target, not over the green). You have to have enough speed, but it should be smooth and controlled. 

[nsxguy]

42 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

Most don't use enough speed. It takes about 70mph clubhead speed to hit a proper bunker shot. People who struggle use about half of that. 

 

While I agree that most poor bunker players primary problem is not using enough speed I don't see how anyone could be so general as to say it takes about XX MPH to hit a proper bunker shot.

 

That's pretty much a full SW speed for me. Around the green ? 70 MPH ain't happening anytime soon.

 

To hit all bunker shots with the same speed one must adjust how far behind the ball to hit a specific distance (rather than hit most all shots "2 inches behind").

 

Tough to vary where you want to strike though. We find ourselves hitting partial shots all the time - so we're (somewhat) used to hitting 1/4, 1/3, 1/2, 3/4 shots, often with several different wedges. But we're always trying to hit the ball first.

 

So vary the speed or vary the impact spot in the sand ? I'll vary the speed.

 

A general rule of thumb I remember from long ago is to take a swing to hit it twice as far out of a green side bunker as you would from fairway. Got a 15 yard bunker shot ? Swing as if you were hitting a 30 yard shot from fairway.

 

I actually find that a fairly decent guideline most of the time although while I am picking out a spot to land the ball, I don't really think of that (anymore) when judging how hard to hit it.

[tthomasgolfer605]

7 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

While I agree that most poor bunker players primary problem is not using enough speed I don't see how anyone could be so general as to say it takes about XX MPH to hit a proper bunker shot.

 

That's pretty much a full SW speed for me. Around the green ? 70 MPH ain't happening anytime soon.

 

To hit all bunker shots with the same speed one must adjust how far behind the ball to hit a specific distance (rather than hit most all shots "2 inches behind").

 

Tough to vary where you want to strike though. We find ourselves hitting partial shots all the time - so we're (somewhat) used to hitting 1/4, 1/3, 1/2, 3/4 shots, often with several different wedges. But we're always trying to hit the ball first.

 

So vary the speed or vary the impact spot in the sand ? I'll vary the speed.

 

A general rule of thumb I remember from long ago is to take a swing to hit it twice as far out of a green side bunker as you would from fairway. Got a 15 yard bunker shot ? Swing as if you were hitting a 30 yard shot from fairway.

 

I actually find that a fairly decent guideline most of the time although while I am picking out a spot to land the ball, I don't really think of that (anymore) when judging how hard to hit it.

Well, If you are an excellent bunker player, I would say your speed is between 60-70 mph. It has to be around there because if it wasn't you'd skip off the sand and blade it or leave it in the bunker. For a longer bunker shot, just throw the sand lower and it'll go further. Most people I see struggle are way too timid out of the traps. I remember Clay Ballard talking about this. 

 

[Saltydawg15]

Find Steve’s video on YouTube.

[hoselpalooza]

3 minutes ago, Saltydawg15 said:

Find Steve’s video on YouTube.

 

does steve have a last name? 😂

[Saltydawg15]

Sorry auto correct it should have been seve as in Ballesteros. 

[nsxguy]

On 4/19/2021 at 6:35 PM, tthomasgolfer605 said:

Well, If you are an excellent bunker player, I would say your speed is between 60-70 mph. It has to be around there because if it wasn't you'd skip off the sand and blade it or leave it in the bunker. For a longer bunker shot, just throw the sand lower and it'll go further. Most people I see struggle are way too timid out of the traps. I remember Clay Ballard talking about this. 

 

 

As I suspected.

 

My full swing SW (roughly 85-90 carry) BALL speed is around 73 MPH. The LM I used doesn't give swing speed but it must be at least a bit below that (65 ?).

 

So for a green side bunker, 70 MPH SS ? No way.

[getitdaily]

If you're skulling shots then you may just not be steep enough. Couple of possibilities...

 

1. Check your posture. Are you too upright? Try getting more bent over so your swing gets a bit more upright.

2. Hit a lot of shots where you dont care where the ball goes, you just really thump the flange down into the sand. Try to dig a small animal grave in the bunker. Do that over and over. Think of keeping the face pointing at the sky as you thump the sand. 

 

Number 2 is an exaggerated move to get the feeling of thumping the sand and using the flange to move the sand. 

[Hawkeye77]

Best Monte tips for me:  (1) make a swing and try and leave it in the bunker --- magic, over a daunting lip and settling nicely on the green, lol, (2) just make a golf swing.  Both dependent on my particular issues, but something in there for everyone, IMO.

[Petethreeput]

I will not go against either b.mattay or Monte. They just have much more knowledge than I.

 

Personally I feel more confident opening up my stance. When I start blading it, it is generally bc I forget when I open up my stance the ball actually moves back in my stance so it is no longer in front of my natural low point.

[Hawkeye77]

On 4/19/2021 at 7:18 PM, Saltydawg15 said:

Sorry auto correct it should have been seve as in Ballesteros. 

Does "Seve" need a last name? 😀

[getitdaily]

I was told, a long time ago, that to play from.bunkers you open the stance a touch, open the face bit point it at the target, then swing on your feet line. 

 

Has always worked really well for me.

 

I get in trouble out of bunkers when one of two things happen.

 

1. My posture gets too upright. I can hit it thin or too heavy. 

2. My transition gets fast. Usually hit it heavy.

 

I also think people take too big a backswing when playing from bunkers. 

 

[hammersia]

Make your shot sound like a good shot

[cardoustie]

Guys I see skulling it in traps have an upper body lunge targetwards .... you’re welcome

[MtlJeff]

On 4/18/2021 at 11:01 PM, nsxguy said:

 

Had this same problem not too long ago.

 

Figured out I was looking at the ball instead of the point I wanted to strike in the sand.

 

Once I started looking at the sand the skulls disappeared.

 

This is how i play bunker shots too. Got the advice from a friend a long time ago. I basically don't really even look at the ball...My focus is on the area behind the ball i want to hit. It's very simple but it helped me a lot.

 

I think some people can't get that through their heads, we immediately want to look at the ball and hit the ball....Which makes sense 98% of the time LOL. But not in the sand

[golfortennis]

I have used the drill my pro showed me with some people who have asked me to help them with bunker play. 

 

First, draw a line in the sand.  Stand square to that line, with the line in the middle of your stance.  No ball yet.  HIt the line, and throw the sand onto the grass.  You don't want to see the club entering the sand before the line.  Do that 10-20 times to get comfortable.  

 

Once you feel comfortable, rake/smooth it all over, redraw the line.  This time, imagine a $1 bill on the ground.  The right side of the bill is the line, the left towards the green.  Where Washington's face is, that's where you put the ball.  Now do exactly what you were doing before the ball was there.  Hit the line, throw the sand.

 

One of the big faults I see is people have the ball in the middle of their stance in the bunker.  That creates far too many issues.

 

Once you are comfortable with the above, you then play around with how far you are throwing the sand to determine how far you are having to hit it. 

 

Oh, and the last thing.  Your attitude over these shots needs to be, if I'm going to make a mistake, make it a big one.