Should Arm Lock be made illegal?

[kjmtthws]

So I have seen this question debated alot and wondered if there was more of a push for this to be made illegal.. 

 

Selfishly, I have used the Arm Lock for the past several years and want to know if there is a groundswell of support for making this illegal.. 

[Vinsanity23]

I tend to believe in the motto "if it was that much better, wouldn't every pro be doing it?" For the record I also do not believe Belly Putters should be illegal, and I have never used either arm lock or belly putters in an actual round, so I have zero skin in the game.

[MtlJeff]

The USGA won't make anything illegal until people start winning majors doing it. They will mostly ignore it until then IMO

 

They don't really care if a few pros do something, only when people win with it because they worry more people will do it then. This is what happened with Belly putters.

[Abh159]

5 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

The USGA won't make anything illegal until people start winning majors doing it. They will mostly ignore it until then IMO

 

They don't really care if a few pros do something, only when people win with it because they worry more people will do it then. This is what happened with Belly putters.

 

Does Bryson winning the US Open last year count? That is after all the USGA's main event.

 

For the record, I don't think it should be illegal. Nor do I think it was the right move to outlaw the belly putter. Like Vinsanity said... if it was such a game changing unfair advantage then everyone would be doing it. Not just a handful of guys. 

Edited April 16, 2021 by Abh159

[MtlJeff]

Just now, Abh159 said:

 

Does Bryson winning the US Open last year count?

 

For the record, I don't think it should be illegal. Nor do I think it was the right move to outlaw the belly putter. Like Vinsanity said... if it was such a game changing unfair advantage then everyone would be doing it. Not just a handful of guys. 

 

Yes of course but it took a few years and a few times before they banned the belly. I think Keegan (?) was first and there was a 2-3 year stretch where like half the major winners did it. 

 

I have always putted fairly standard so it doesn't bother me either way.

[makana]

We need to make it illegal so I can stop going back and forth between armlock and traditional 🤣

[longjohnpeter]

No...

 

[pinhigh27]

I fundamentally disagree with  how anchoring is defined. So it's anchoring if you make the club touch your chest, but if you lock it to your arm, that is not anchoring? 

 

I don't know that it has a significant advantage but clearly you're essentially taking the locked wrist out of play and that sure seems like "anchoring" to me. So holding your forearm against your body is anchoring, but locking the club to your forearm isn't? 

 

I think we will probably see more people switch over time. Putting is pretty personal and I doubt it's going to make you make like 2x as many putts or else half the tour would switch next week. But there probably is an advantage. 

[Pinky5]

It doesn't take the skill out of putting. Just cause a few of the best guys in the world get good at doing something doesn't mean it should be illegal. Golf is still hard.

[Hawkeye77]

Don’t care.

[JDCON]

Absolutely not. The loudest opponents of arm lock and long putters are the guys who are poor putters and were recently beat by someone using an armlock or long putter.

[lefthack]

I remember when everyone got pissed about the long a** putters nobody uses anymore. They aren't illegal are they?

 

 

[antip]

The technique in that Adam Scott picture is anchored and illegal, presumably an old picture.

[storm319]

17 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

 

Yes of course but it took a few years and a few times before they banned the belly. I think Keegan (?) was first and there was a 2-3 year stretch where like half the major winners did it. 

 

I have always putted fairly standard so it doesn't bother me either way.

2011 PGA Championship - Keegan Bradley

2012 US Open - Webb Simpson

2012 Open - Ernie Els

2013 Masters - Adam Scott

 

4 of 6 Majors in that period won by players anchoring is what triggered the rules change. The USGA explicitly approved the arm lock method and it has had a very low adoption rate (no one seemed to care about Kuchar using this method for the past 5 years but 2020 Bryson happened and all of a sudden it seems to be a problem for some people).

[pinhigh27]

1 hour ago, storm319 said:

2011 PGA Championship - Keegan Bradley

2012 US Open - Webb Simpson

2012 Open - Ernie Els

2013 Masters - Adam Scott

 

4 of 6 Majors in that period won by players anchoring is what triggered the rules change. The USGA explicitly approved the arm lock method and it has had a very low adoption rate (no one seemed to care about Kuchar using this method for the past 5 years but 2020 Bryson happened and all of a sudden it seems to be a problem for some people).

 

I'm not sure how this is different. Before all those majors tons of people were using belly putters or broomsticks too. Tons of tournaments were won in the 2000s with long, anchored putters. Anchoring putters were on the pga tour in the early 90s. It's not like this stuff happens overnight. People dabble with it, like it, probably gain a slight advantage and when you're on tour and everyone is infinitely good, small advantages matter in the long run and thus they win tournaments. 

 

I think these things aren't huge advantages, but they are likely advantages so people discover them over time slowly and then they get increasing use. So who is to say we are not at the early adoption phase a la 2000s for the belly and broomsticks and in 10 years even more people would be arm locking? 

 

Kuchar being the first doesn't mean it's ok and it seems like every week we are seeing more players try it. If 3 of the next 6 major winners are arm locking do we have a problem then? 

 

I think their definition of anchoring is inconsistent and if you look at the stroke used for arm locking it's fundamentally different than basically all other currently allowed ways of putting. 

 

https://www.golfchannel.com/news/how-it-all-began-history-long-putter

[Shilgy]

@pinhigh27 this is the difference.....

in both the Adam Scott/Bernhardt Langer anchored butting and the belly style putting the top of the grip was anchored. Creating a pendulum. The butt of the club does not move at all.

 The armlock style is misnamed. Nothing is locked. And both hands are free swinging. The only thing keeping the end of the grip against the forearm is maintaining the forward press. It is not “locked” in any manner nor is it anchored in any manner.

[storm319]

57 minutes ago, pinhigh27 said:

 

I'm not sure how this is different. Before all those majors tons of people were using belly putters or broomsticks too. Tons of tournaments were won in the 2000s with long, anchored putters. Anchoring putters were on the pga tour in the early 90s. It's not like this stuff happens overnight. People dabble with it, like it, probably gain a slight advantage and when you're on tour and everyone is infinitely good, small advantages matter in the long run and thus they win tournaments. 

 

I think these things aren't huge advantages, but they are likely advantages so people discover them over time slowly and then they get increasing use. So who is to say we are not at the early adoption phase a la 2000s for the belly and broomsticks and in 10 years even more people would be arm locking? 

 

Kuchar being the first doesn't mean it's ok and it seems like every week we are seeing more players try it. If 3 of the next 6 major winners are arm locking do we have a problem then? 

 

I think their definition of anchoring is inconsistent and if you look at the stroke used for arm locking it's fundamentally different than basically all other currently allowed ways of putting. 

 

https://www.golfchannel.com/news/how-it-all-began-history-long-putter

It is different because the USGA didn’t regulate the putter swing until 2016 (croquet ban doesn’t count since that was about the alignment stance vs the actual swing) and when they did they explicitly defined the arm lock method as an acceptable swing.
 

Did we see anchoring wins earlier? Sure, but I would challenge defining that quantity as tons given that adoption of long putters was still incredibly low compared to the conventional method.  Again, no one cared until the majors started dropping with this method.

[jordan2240]

I say just make a rule that the putter cannot exceed the length of the club you normally use off the tee on a par 4, and then allow people to putt any way they want.

[Augster]

They should have never banned anchoring. Over reach by the ruling bodies. The ball is fairly struck. What’s the problem? They had NO data to back up anchoring made putting easier. They didn’t like the look. 
 

So now, when I punch out from under a tree, I have to make sure I don’t accidentally anchor my choked down club. 
 

If the ball is fairly struck using the head of the club, there shouldn’t be any kind of ban. Including straddle putting. If everyone is allowed to do it, it doesn’t hold up play, and the ball is fairly struck, there shouldn’t be a ban. 

Edited July 20, 2021 by Augster

[Mr. Bean]

I honestly could not care less if someone wants to use a 180 cm long broom to putt but I do like the idea that a golf ball needs to be struck with a swing instead of a sweep.

[phil75070]

18 hours ago, Augster said:

The should have never banned anchoring. Over reach by the ruling bodies.

I agree with this 👆 In regard to the arm lock, it is often described as "anchoring" the grip against the forearm and as far as a pivot point, doesn't the shoulder in that style of putting become just that? Either allow or ban ALL styles of anchoring.

[Shilgy]

2 hours ago, phil75070 said:

I agree with this 👆 In regard to the arm lock, it is often described as "anchoring" the grip against the forearm and as far as a pivot point, doesn't the shoulder in that style of putting become just that? Either allow or ban ALL styles of anchoring.

What is actually “anchored” in the so called arm lock style? Please explain. The end of the grip only stays against the forearm by the player maintaining their forward press. Nothing is anchored.

By that definition that some appear to be using a firm grip would be anchored.

  In the putting depiction a anchored means a fixed point that the putter freely moves beneath.  Creating a pendulum.

[Mr. Bean]

2 hours ago, Shilgy said:

What is actually “anchored” in the so called arm lock style? Please explain. The end of the grip only stays against the forearm by the player maintaining their forward press. Nothing is anchored.

By that definition that some appear to be using a firm grip would be anchored.

  In the putting depiction a anchored means a fixed point that the putter freely moves beneath.  Creating a pendulum.

 

To support you in your excellent post I link this to the OP to study:

 

What is anchoring and what is not. Armlock is not anchoring.

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by Mr. Bean

[Mr. Bean]

On 4/16/2021 at 8:58 PM, Vinsanity23 said:

I tend to believe in the motto "if it was that much better, wouldn't every pro be doing it?"

 

People have different physical and mental properties which drive their choices. The vast majority of golf players putt with their upper hand in front of the putter (towards the hole) just as they hold their other clubs and I used to do that as well. For many years now I have set my hands the other way round as I feel it suits me much better. Yet I do not claim it is a better way for everybody.

[Guy In Lyon]

Sure. Why not? You can't have anything weird out there, right?

[phil75070]

21 hours ago, Shilgy said:

The end of the grip only stays against the forearm by the player maintaining their forward press.

By your own statement, the grip is "anchored" to the forearm as the definition of "anchor" is to "secure firmly in position". The long putter is only "anchored" to the chest by the player exerting pressure and holding it there. 🙂

 

Many of the arguments made in defense of the armlock putting style, including "if it were beneficial everyone would be doing it", were also made in defense of both the long and belly putters to no avail. 

[Vinsanity23]

18 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

People have different physical and mental properties which drive their choices. The vast majority of golf players putt with their upper hand in front of the putter (towards the hole) just as they hold their other clubs and I used to do that as well. For many years now I have set my hands the other way round as I feel it suits me much better. Yet I do not claim it is a better way for everybody.

Absolutely. Same can be said for choice of grip on full swing clubs including interlock, overlap, baseball, etc. However, my original point was that if armlock were so truly beneficial to saving strokes that it should be banned, you would think that all pros would be utilizing it given it's how they make their living. My point was I don't think it saves strokes for everyone, just like you stated with the left-hand low approach. You may be in total agreement with this, but I was unsure as to why you quoted that section of my text.

[Superbrit]

Throwing my 2 pennies worth in i personally think no part of the body apart from your hands should touch any golf club when taking a shot, but i cant say it bothers me, i dont look at Bryson thinking your a cheat, i just look at him thinking no way i could putt like that on a golf course in front of people, no matter if it did slightly help

[bladehunter]

On 4/17/2021 at 11:00 AM, Shilgy said:

@pinhigh27 this is the difference.....

in both the Adam Scott/Bernhardt Langer anchored butting and the belly style putting the top of the grip was anchored. Creating a pendulum. The butt of the club does not move at all.

 The armlock style is misnamed. Nothing is locked. And both hands are free swinging. The only thing keeping the end of the grip against the forearm is maintaining the forward press. It is not “locked” in any manner nor is it anchored in any manner.

What about this version ?  Left hand low.  Right hand on top absolutely anchors it to the forearm.  
 

im not in favor of a ban for what it’s worth.  I’d allow belly putters to come back , or ban both.  To me they are same.  A bandaid.  But I’m ok with the  bandaid. 

[ltom]

On 4/16/2021 at 2:45 PM, makana said:

We need to make it illegal so I can stop going back and forth between armlock and traditional 🤣

I wish they'd do the same for the claw so I'll stop going back and forth. 🙂