Comparison Photos - vintage persimmon Driver and a modern 3 wood

[theothertwo]

And the 3 wood is supposed to be very compact at 150cc.  How many yards do you think you will lose using this persimmon driver today.  I don't know if I can even launch that now.

 

 

[grochol17]

There are videos of DJ and Rory hitting a persimmon driver around 300 yards, so clearly you can still bomb it with those clubs.  I'd be much more interested in seeing a dispersion chart of something like 100 shots each with persimmon and modern driver.  My guess is that is where the big difference between the two will show up.

Edited April 16, 2021 by grochol17

[FirstFlight]

When you catch it on the screws, it still impresses everyone in the group...even if they won't show it or say it! 😉

A lot of folks with four sixties don't like to be equalled, passed or found more accurate by stuff with serviceable faceplates.

It's the archer, not the arrow.

 

Seeing elites wield any generation of weapons is cool.

[Gehly]

TM M5 3 wood on left, compared to TaylorMade driver, first metal wood driver on right

Circa early 1980’s

Edited April 16, 2021 by Gehly

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

6 hours ago, Gehly said:

TM M5 3 wood on left, compared to TaylorMade driver, first metal wood driver on right

Circa early 1980’s

 

I've read that the early metalwoods were slightly smaller than persimmon woods on order to keep the weight similar to wooden woods.

I got a TM metal driver (Burner Plus, I think) in 1989 or 90, and I recall it being about the same size as the persimmon wood I had before that.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

8 hours ago, theothertwo said:

And the 3 wood is supposed to be very compact at 150cc.  How many yards do you think you will lose using this persimmon driver today.  I don't know if I can even launch that now.

 

 

 

Bear in mind the driver shaft is probably the same length as your 3w's, and heavier, so I think you'll see some loss of distance. As @grochol17 said, dispersion is probably where you'll see the biggest difference, especially distance dispersion; those old drivers needed to be hit precisely to get any distance.

 

That said, I've some carbon shafted persimmons that hit pretty well. Not as long as my "frying pan on a stick" G400, but on a good day they're not far off. Funny thing is, as mishits don't go as far, they tend to stop short of the trouble. Mishits with the G400 are more likely to end up OB or in the jungle.

 

Of course, being a WRXer, I never have mishits. I was talking about a friend. Yeah, that's the ticket. A friend.

[Jc0]

 

7 hours ago, grochol17 said:

There are videos of DJ and Rory hitting a persimmon driver around 300 yards, so clearly you can still bomb it with those clubs.  I'd be much more interested in seeing a dispersion chart of something like 100 shots each with persimmon and modern driver.  My guess is that is where the big difference between the two will show up.

 

The COR of a metal driver is .83 while a persimmon drive is .78. the means with a club head speed of 100 mph a modern club will get 150 ball speed while a wood club generates 145. It's not as large if a gap as people seem to think (15 yards). Modern tech has just been able to optimize launch conditions and provide max COR on a larger portion of the face.

[Jiggered]

5 hours ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

 

I've read that the early metalwoods were slightly smaller than persimmon woods on order to keep the weight similar to wooden woods.

I got a TM metal driver (Burner Plus, I think) in 1989 or 90, and I recall it being about the same size as the persimmon wood I had before that.

 

The steelheads were smaller.

 

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

18 hours ago, Jiggered said:

 

The steelheads were smaller.

 

 

And from that photo, quite a bit smaller. I never really thought about the size of my metal driver when I had it. I just assumed it was about the same size as the persimmon I had before it, though the persimmon had a noticeably shallower face which meant I could hit it off the deck on a good day.

 

Now I really want to compare my old TM burner to my persimmons. Only problem is, the burner's on your side of the world, and my persimmons are on my side of the world...😅

[Foozle]

4 hours ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

 

And from that photo, quite a bit smaller. I never really thought about the size of my metal driver when I had it. I just assumed it was about the same size as the persimmon I had before it, though the persimmon had a noticeably shallower face which meant I could hit it off the deck on a good day.

 

Now I really want to compare my old TM burner to my persimmons. Only problem is, the burner's on your side of the world, and my persimmons are on my side of the world...😅

I think Jiggered's picture is an optical illusion. I play TM Burners in winter. I took my Hogan persimmon out yesterday and couldn't find the face at all....it must be smaller...right? 😁

[TheDeanAbides]

Maybe it's coming from the persimmon era, but modern 3 woods seem so big to me that they're horrible to hit. They're okay from the tee, but off the fairway I'd much prefer something with a smaller profile. 

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

4 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Maybe it's coming from the persimmon era, but modern 3 woods seem so big to me that they're horrible to hit. They're okay from the tee, but off the fairway I'd much prefer something with a smaller profile. 

 

I'm with you on this one. In fact, there's a relevant thread to this right now in the Equipment forum, talking about the 5w. Many posters are saying the 3w is becoming obsolete except perhaps as a tee-shot club. I think the fact that 5-woods now have lofts hovering near 17* is also a factor.

[NRJyzr]

31 minutes ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

 

I'm with you on this one. In fact, there's a relevant thread to this right now in the Equipment forum, talking about the 5w. Many posters are saying the 3w is becoming obsolete except perhaps as a tee-shot club. I think the fact that 5-woods now have lofts hovering near 17* is also a factor.

 

Modern 3 woods are essentially a 2 wood.  The modern 4w is what a 3w used to be.  In some cases, its the modern 5w.

 

Loft creep isn't just about irons.  LOL

 

I'm probably going to drop my fairway wood, using my 2h at 16* as my sole wood-ish club.  I just don't have many shots, even from the tee, that require a 14* club, and I find I hit the 2h much better.  

 

Plus, hybrids can be made with iron shafts, which are in a much better weight class as far as I'm concerned.  🤔🙂

 

[disco111]

https://golf-info-guide.com/golf-equipment-news/the-advent-of-the-metal-driver/

 

Just for informational inclusion................It's fairly interesting.

[theothertwo]

5 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Maybe it's coming from the persimmon era, but modern 3 woods seem so big to me that they're horrible to hit. They're okay from the tee, but off the fairway I'd much prefer something with a smaller profile. 

Compare a compact Titleist 910F 3 Wood with a Powerbilt Citation persimmon 4 wood.  I used a version of this 4 wood for a few years and loved it.  It's like the perfect size, I believe the new Honma TR21 fairway woods are very compact. 

 

 

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

10 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

 

Modern 3 woods are essentially a 2 wood.  The modern 4w is what a 3w used to be.  In some cases, its the modern 5w.

 

Loft creep isn't just about irons.  LOL

 

I'm probably going to drop my fairway wood, using my 2h at 16* as my sole wood-ish club.  I just don't have many shots, even from the tee, that require a 14* club, and I find I hit the 2h much better.  

 

Plus, hybrids can be made with iron shafts, which are in a much better weight class as far as I'm concerned.  🤔🙂

 

 

I concur. Seeing a 17.5* club called a "5w" brings a smile to my face. 

 

I play a 17* 4w in my modern set, and I use it a lot off the tee because the courses around here are generally pretty tight. I used to use it off the fairway as well, but my woods recently are dreadful, so I'm thinking of adding a stronger lofted hybrid.

 

Now, when I play persimmon, I hardly ever hit the 3w off the deck, but use it like the 4w in my modern set up. The 5w does the heavy lifting from the fairways and rough. I think a good little 5w is key component of the persimmon bag, and I've got two I really like, plus another couple that are decent. 

 

My Powerbilt 5w with the brass firing pin is little gem. The head is so compact it looks smaller than some hybrids.

The other favourite is my carbon shafted Mizuno 5w; not much to look at, but dependable.

[Jiggered]

[elwhippy]

Loft is your friend.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

Look at those RAM lofts.

#4w: 19.2

#3 iron: 24.3

#4i: 27.8

#7i: 39.2

etc.

 

They're having a laugh🤣

 

 

[grm24]

On 4/18/2021 at 9:11 AM, NRJyzr said:

Loft creep isn't just about irons.  LOL

So true my brother! In the days of the TM Pittsburgh Persimmon fairway wood days the 3 wood was 17*, 4 wood 20*, 5 wood 23*, 6 wood 25* and 7 wood 27.5*.

 

In the early 2000's the TM300 5 wood was 17 degrees. Must have been those ultra low COG's in the standard 300 series that caused that <snicker>.

 

To be fair Callaway had their own loft/length/shaft flex games going on as well. Sure there were others.

Edited April 20, 2021 by grm24

[EmperorPenguin]

I can add that the Tour Preferred metal woods with the dimpled toe and newer TaylorMade logo (with the red tee) was released about 1989-1990.  I know this because they were the must-have drivers to buy when I started playing golf in 1990, and graphite shafts were starting to become popular.  The TaylorMade Burner series (Burner, BurnerPlus, Tour Driver and Tour Burner) were all modeled after the MacGregor M85 driver.  The venerable 3 wood series (Burner and Tour Spoon) were modeled after the MacGregor 693 3 wood.

[EmperorPenguin]

On 4/19/2021 at 1:05 AM, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

Look at those RAM lofts.

#4w: 19.2

#3 iron: 24.3

#4i: 27.8

#7i: 39.2

etc.

 

They're having a laugh🤣

 

 

 

I had a laugh at the local muni when I hit a beautiful shot into the wind on a par 3 (130 yards) with my custom 1989 Wilson Staff 7 iron.  One of the golfers paired up with me asked which club I used.  I told him 7 iron and he used his modern 7 iron and flew the ball twenty yards over the the green.

[dlygrisse]

On 4/18/2021 at 8:45 AM, disco111 said:

https://golf-info-guide.com/golf-equipment-news/the-advent-of-the-metal-driver/

 

Just for informational inclusion................It's fairly interesting.

Jim Simons won the first event with metal in 1982, Bob Estes the last with wood in 2001.  Trevino the first major. 

Edited April 21, 2021 by dlygrisse