Billy Horschel Ban Armlock Putting

[Big GG]

16 minutes ago, kelpie said:

KInda ironic, it's yet another "thing" that Bryson does that the others want banned. Can't wait to see what's coming up...

Others did it long before Bryson. Why does everyone think when someone wants something banned or changed it revolves around him. Kuchar started arm locking before Bryson ever left college.

[gvogel]

I think that the long putter should have been banned because both hands were not working together.  One hand was still while the other hand made the stroke.  To me, that is "levering", not a stroke.

 

I say that if the armlock is OK, then belly putting should be too.  Both hands work together to make the stroke.

 

By the way, that is what Harvey Penick thought as well.

[pinhigh27]

12 hours ago, tiderider said:

1) where does your hand end? why is it that specific point? 

2) what is the arbitrary max length you want to assign to the putter? Why?

COR and CT limits are arbitrary. Everything is arbitrary. You have to make arbitrary limits at some point. 

 

 

[mwkbmw]

The world existed long before Bryson came along.

 

[Arn]

The only part of you that should touch the club is your hands. 

[Creedo77]

He’s not the only pro who wants the armlock banned, plenty out there feel the same way

[disco111]

I say they do away with any and every putter and only allow players to putt with their foot............now that would be skillful and just think of the TV ratings jump when all the soccer fans start to tune in...........

[Nard_S]

It definitely should be banned. Triangulating the club and eliminating possible lead wrist break down. A max length of 36'-37" invoked.

 

The big issue then is do you have to somewhat ban left hand low? I don't use it, but how's the arm lock and left hand low so different? Good luck with that can of worms.

[mwkbmw]

1 minute ago, Nard_S said:

It definitely should be banned. Triangulating the club and eliminating possible lead wrist break down. A max length of 36'-37" invoked.

 

The big issue then is do you have to somewhat ban left hand low? I don't use it, but how's the arm lock and left hand low so different? Good luck with that can of worms.

See the pic above of Langer. That was a standard length putter.

 

I putt left hand low with a 33" putter. I can definitely still inadvertently let my wrists break down and add loft unintentionally.

[kelpie]

1 hour ago, Big GG said:

Others did it long before Bryson. Why does everyone think when someone wants something banned or changed it revolves around him. Kuchar started arm locking before Bryson ever left college.

Totally agree. I was pondering on the fact that Bryson has pushed the rules on quite a few things, however.  I remember Langer doing a variation of the arm lock, too.

[80sFredriksson]

I agree, club should not be locked or achored against anything

[J13]

Not a Billy fan at all but I agree with him.  You can't put croquet style but you can anchor the putter to your arm?  Makes absolutely no sense.

[NoTalentLefty]

18 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

BHo 

 

The only thing that should be banned is this move

 

 

The shoes reminds me of something my grandad wore to take granny out for Saturday night dancing....

[caniac6]

I think Billy needs a hug.

[Nard_S]

1 hour ago, mwkbmw said:

See the pic above of Langer. That was a standard length putter.

 

I putt left hand low with a 33" putter. I can definitely still inadvertently let my wrists break down and add loft unintentionally.

I guess you would know, I've experimented and can see LHL's benefits and also how I can triangulate with it a bit. I'm of Dave Stockton school and to me all  these putting styles boil down to one common thing. Instill greater lead hand discipline and that's  pretty much it. Arm lock, belly, claw, left hand low and Stockton traditional all attempt to keep lead hand in charge or at a minimum ahead of putter face. So why a PGA pro who can split a fairway over 300 yards needs a massive long putter to lock his hands in place over a 30 footer, I'll never understand and I'll never cheer for him even when he's as likable as Langer.

[Obee]

17 hours ago, Tgstan said:

Arm lock, belly, and long putter are so obviously contrary to the idea of a golf stroke I’m constantly mystified by people who defend it. 

The golf swing and putting (even done conventionally) are vastly different things. Let people putt however they want except straddling. That's the only thing I think they were right to ban.

[teude]

16 hours ago, m d g said:

The driver length is limited and nobody cares.

 

Just limit the length of the putter and allow whatever stroke the player wants to use.

 

This. It's that simple.

[philly2kuk]

I said the same thing as billy previously. Either ban all anchoring, including arm lock as you anchor to your arm, or allow belly and long putters back. Either option makes no odds to me, but be consistent.

[m d g]

As long as nobody bans the old Billy Baroo then all is well...

 

[Aaronwilson_95]

Take it or leave but one could make a case this is “locked “ above his palms. 

[Bye]

I think it’s too late. Guys like Webb Simpson had to learn a new technique after the ban. Surely they are not going to make them do it again.
 

It’s nice to see a bit of variety as well. Everyone doing the same thing gets a bit dull.

 

[Obee]

40 minutes ago, Bye said:

I think it’s too late. Guys like Webb Simpson had to learn a new technique after the ban. Surely they are not going to make them do it again.
 

It’s nice to see a bit of variety as well. Everyone doing the same thing gets a bit dull.

 

Yup. Totally agree with that sentiment. 

[Tgstan]

4 hours ago, Obee said:

The golf swing and putting (even done conventionally) are vastly different things. Let people putt however they want except straddling. That's the only thing I think they were right to ban.

 Ok. If that’s the case I’m going to bag a putter that looks a lot like my pool cue and I’ll never miss inside six feet again. 

[straightshot7]

If it's a real advantage and makes putting easier, why doesn't Horschel use arm lock??

 

As long as it is legal...isn't the goal to shoot the lowest score possible. He should switch to it.

Or does he not use it out of principle? Or is it not actually that much better?

[Tgstan]

12 minutes ago, straightshot7 said:

If it's a real advantage and makes putting easier, why doesn't Horschel use arm lock??

 

As long as it is legal...isn't the goal to shoot the lowest score possible. He should switch to it.

Or does he not use it out of principle? Or is it not actually that much better?

This is such a bad and tired take on these putting handicap aids. 
 

Simply put, it’s not objectively better, it’s BETTER for PEOPLE WHO CANT PUTT with what we all know a true putting stroke is. Better for people who can’t deliver the face as square as they would like. It’s better for people who get nervy. It’s better for people who get yippy. 
 

Bryson gets the ball in the hole extremely well with his technique. However, generally speaking, players who adopt these crutches  don’t identify putting as a strength. 
 

 

[tiderider]

8 hours ago, pinhigh27 said:

COR and CT limits are arbitrary. Everything is arbitrary. You have to make arbitrary limits at some point. 

 

 

true, but those are limits on tech advancement ... i don't know how the usga/r & a/etc can fuse everything together in a logical way to the golfing world ... golf rules require so much specificity that a generalized rule to "can't hold the club against your arm etc" can't be used, i don't think ... 

[straightshot7]

11 minutes ago, Tgstan said:

This is such a bad and tired take on these putting handicap aids. 
 

Simply put, it’s not objectively better, it’s BETTER for PEOPLE WHO CANT PUTT with what we all know a true putting stroke is. Better for people who can’t deliver the face as square as they would like. It’s better for people who get nervy. It’s better for people who get yippy. 
 

Bryson gets the ball in the hole extremely well with his technique. However, generally speaking, players who adopt these crutches  don’t identify putting as a strength. 
 

 

"I think when you look at what guys are doing now with the arm lock and moving the grips to the side where it's parallel or matches the face and then when you do that up against your arm, I mean, it's—you know that face is dead square and that face doesn't rotate at all," Horschel continuted. "It's just sort of locked in. Guys are doing it too good." --- Billy Horschel 

It sure sounds like Billy sees a physical, technical advantage to the arm lock.

 

Just like anchoring the grip to the belly creates a more consistent stroke.

 

So, I think one can argue it IS "objectively better" in some ways.

Making the argument just about "people who can't putt" is actually such a bad take. 

Even the best putters in the world struggle to square the face 100% of the time. That's why Tiger does the gate drill so religiously. If there is a method that makes it easier or more likely to have the face square at impact (which armlock does), that is an objectively better method. 

 

You have no way of demonstrating that a "good putter" wouldn't putt even better with an arm lock putter. 

Edited April 17, 2021 by straightshot7

[Tgstan]

23 minutes ago, straightshot7 said:

"I think when you look at what guys are doing now with the arm lock and moving the grips to the side where it's parallel or matches the face and then when you do that up against your arm, I mean, it's—you know that face is dead square and that face doesn't rotate at all," Horschel continuted. "It's just sort of locked in. Guys are doing it too good." --- Billy Horschel 

It sure sounds like Billy sees a physical, technical advantage to the arm lock.

 

Just like anchoring the grip to the belly creates a more consistent stroke.

 

So, I think one can argue it IS "objectively better" in some ways.

Making the argument just about "people who can't putt" is actually such a bad take. 

Great point. I agree about keeping the face square. I should have been more clear. My point was that, historically, players go to these things when putting is a struggle. 
 

I specifically mentioned BD because I think he represents the new breed of player who is in fact looking for the superior mechanical advantage. And I expect others will follow for that same reason. 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Tgstan

[caniac6]

42 minutes ago, straightshot7 said:

"I think when you look at what guys are doing now with the arm lock and moving the grips to the side where it's parallel or matches the face and then when you do that up against your arm, I mean, it's—you know that face is dead square and that face doesn't rotate at all," Horschel continuted. "It's just sort of locked in. Guys are doing it too good." --- Billy Horschel 

It sure sounds like Billy sees a physical, technical advantage to the arm lock.

 

Just like anchoring the grip to the belly creates a more consistent stroke.

 

So, I think one can argue it IS "objectively better" in some ways.

Making the argument just about "people who can't putt" is actually such a bad take. 

Even the best putters in the world struggle to square the face 100% of the time. That's why Tiger does the gate drill so religiously. If there is a method that makes it easier or more likely to have the face square at impact (which armlock does), that is an objectively better method. 

 

You have no way of demonstrating that a "good putter" wouldn't putt even better with an arm lock putter. 

Isn’t the face staying square the idea behind face balanced putters? Also, isn’t that the selling point of the Directed Force putters? DF even has an apparatus that demonstrates how their putter stays square during the stroke vs. other putters. I just wonder if Billy is in a bit of a putting slump, and frustrated?

[jmcf1949]

8 hours ago, disco111 said:

I say they do away with any and every putter and only allow players to putt with their foot............now that would be skillful and just think of the TV ratings jump when all the soccer fans start to tune in...........

George Low who designed Jack’s Wizard 600 putter was quite good putting with his foot. I’ve read he could kick em in from all over the green.