Jump to content

Billy Horschel Ban Armlock Putting


Recommended Posts

16 minutes ago, kelpie said:

KInda ironic, it's yet another "thing" that Bryson does that the others want banned. Can't wait to see what's coming up...

Others did it long before Bryson. Why does everyone think when someone wants something banned or changed it revolves around him. Kuchar started arm locking before Bryson ever left college.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 132
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Arm lock, belly, and long putter are so obviously contrary to the idea of a golf stroke I’m constantly mystified by people who defend it. 

The armlock method should have been included when they got rid of the anchored stroke.  Even though it’s not “anchored” the putter is braced.  Personally I don’t think they should have gotten rid of t

BHo    The only thing that should be banned is this move    

Posted Images

I think that the long putter should have been banned because both hands were not working together.  One hand was still while the other hand made the stroke.  To me, that is "levering", not a stroke.

 

I say that if the armlock is OK, then belly putting should be too.  Both hands work together to make the stroke.

 

By the way, that is what Harvey Penick thought as well.

Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing-glove.  P.G. Wodehouse
Link to post
Share on other sites

It definitely should be banned. Triangulating the club and eliminating possible lead wrist break down. A max length of 36'-37" invoked.

 

The big issue then is do you have to somewhat ban left hand low? I don't use it, but how's the arm lock and left hand low so different? Good luck with that can of worms.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Nard_S said:

It definitely should be banned. Triangulating the club and eliminating possible lead wrist break down. A max length of 36'-37" invoked.

 

The big issue then is do you have to somewhat ban left hand low? I don't use it, but how's the arm lock and left hand low so different? Good luck with that can of worms.

See the pic above of Langer. That was a standard length putter.

 

I putt left hand low with a 33" putter. I can definitely still inadvertently let my wrists break down and add loft unintentionally.

Callaway Rogue 10.5
Callaway 3Deep w/PX 6.0
Ping i20 2 Hy & Idea Pro 4 Hy
Ping i25 5-UW
Scotty Cameron Notchback
Ping Tour Gorge 54 & Glide 2.0 58

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Big GG said:

Others did it long before Bryson. Why does everyone think when someone wants something banned or changed it revolves around him. Kuchar started arm locking before Bryson ever left college.

Totally agree. I was pondering on the fact that Bryson has pushed the rules on quite a few things, however.  I remember Langer doing a variation of the arm lock, too.

Callaway Epic Flash Subzero, CK Pro Tensei Orange 
Tour Edge Exotics Tour EX9, 15*
Mizuno CLK 19*
Mizuno JPX919 Tour, KBS C Taper, 4-PW
Fourteen Golf RM22 52*, 58*; Callaway PM Grind 64*
Scotty Cameron Bullseye Flange
Titleist ProV1X
Link to post
Share on other sites

Not a Billy fan at all but I agree with him.  You can't put croquet style but you can anchor the putter to your arm?  Makes absolutely no sense.

  • Like 3

Titleist TSi3 8* / Fuji Ventus Black 6X                  

Taylormade SIM2 Ti 15* / Fuji Ventus Black 7X               

Cally Mav Pro 20*  / Fuji Ventus Black 10TX

Honma 737V / Mitsubishi MMT 125TX

Cally MD5 50*,54*,60* / Mitsu MMT 125TX

Odyssey Versa #6




 

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

BHo 

 

The only thing that should be banned is this move

 

 

41CB6C35-FF51-4CE8-AA28-F917F707ACAB.jpeg

The shoes reminds me of something my grandad wore to take granny out for Saturday night dancing....

Livin' proof that Lefties are not naturally talented.

Driver Callaway Epic Flash 10.5 set to 9.5
3 Wood Epic Flash set to 16 degrees
3-5 Hybrids Epic Flash 18 20 23 degrees
6 hybrid Big Bertha 26 degree 
7-AW Callaway Mavrik Irons 
50 degree GW Vokey SM7
56 degree SW Vokey SM7
Odyssey White Hot V-Line Fang

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mwkbmw said:

See the pic above of Langer. That was a standard length putter.

 

I putt left hand low with a 33" putter. I can definitely still inadvertently let my wrists break down and add loft unintentionally.

I guess you would know, I've experimented and can see LHL's benefits and also how I can triangulate with it a bit. I'm of Dave Stockton school and to me all  these putting styles boil down to one common thing. Instill greater lead hand discipline and that's  pretty much it. Arm lock, belly, claw, left hand low and Stockton traditional all attempt to keep lead hand in charge or at a minimum ahead of putter face. So why a PGA pro who can split a fairway over 300 yards needs a massive long putter to lock his hands in place over a 30 footer, I'll never understand and I'll never cheer for him even when he's as likable as Langer.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I said the same thing as billy previously. Either ban all anchoring, including arm lock as you anchor to your arm, or allow belly and long putters back. Either option makes no odds to me, but be consistent.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Taylormade M5 Evenflow Blue
Ping G 17.5
Taylormade Rescue Dual 22°
Ping G410 4-UW
Vokey SM7 56°/14° and 60°/10°
Scotty Cameron T22 Newport
Titleist Pro V1x

[i]Remember, there's no pictures on a scorecard, only a number. [/i]

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it’s too late. Guys like Webb Simpson had to learn a new technique after the ban. Surely they are not going to make them do it again.
 

It’s nice to see a bit of variety as well. Everyone doing the same thing gets a bit dull.

 

  • Like 2

Sim 2 Max 10.5 - shaft TBC
Callaway Rogue 3 Wood - Aldila Rogue Silver 70X

Titleist 816 H2 (20) Aldila Rogue Black 85X 
Titleist 716CB 4-9 - X100
Vokey SM7 46.10, 50.08, 54M, 59M - S400
Scotty Cameron Studio Stainless Newport 2.5
Titleist Pro V1X

Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Bye said:

I think it’s too late. Guys like Webb Simpson had to learn a new technique after the ban. Surely they are not going to make them do it again.
 

It’s nice to see a bit of variety as well. Everyone doing the same thing gets a bit dull.

 

Yup. Totally agree with that sentiment. 

  • Like 1

PING G400 Max - Atmos Tour Spec Red - 65 - S
Titleist TS2 15* 3-wood - Tensei Blue - 65 - S; Titleist 918 5-wood 19*. Atmos Tour Spec Red - 65 - S
Titleist 818 H1 21* Atmos Tour Spec Blue - S
Adams Idea Tech V4 5H 25* ProLaunch Blue 75 HY x-stiff; Adams Idea Tech V4 6H 28* ProLaunch Blue 75 HY x-stiff; Adams Idea Tech V4 7H 32* ProLaunch Blue 75 HY x-stiff
Titleist AP2 716 8i 37* KBS Tour S; Titleist AP2 716 9i 42* KBS Tour S
Cleveland RTX-4 mid-bounce 46* DG s-400
Cleveland RTX-4 mid-bounce 50* DG s-400
Cleveland RTX-4 full-sole 56* DG s-400
Cleveland RTX-4 low-bounce 60* DG s-400
PING Sigma 2 Valor 400 Counter-Balanced, 38"

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Obee said:


The golf swing and putting (even done conventionally) are vastly different things. Let people putt however they want except straddling. That's the only thing I think they were right to ban.

 Ok. If that’s the case I’m going to bag a putter that looks a lot like my pool cue and I’ll never miss inside six feet again. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, straightshot7 said:

If it's a real advantage and makes putting easier, why doesn't Horschel use arm lock??

 

As long as it is legal...isn't the goal to shoot the lowest score possible. He should switch to it.


Or does he not use it out of principle? Or is it not actually that much better?


This is such a bad and tired take on these putting handicap aids. 
 

Simply put, it’s not objectively better, it’s BETTER for PEOPLE WHO CANT PUTT with what we all know a true putting stroke is. Better for people who can’t deliver the face as square as they would like. It’s better for people who get nervy. It’s better for people who get yippy. 
 

Bryson gets the ball in the hole extremely well with his technique. However, generally speaking, players who adopt these crutches  don’t identify putting as a strength. 
 

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, pinhigh27 said:

COR and CT limits are arbitrary. Everything is arbitrary. You have to make arbitrary limits at some point. 

 

 

true, but those are limits on tech advancement ... i don't know how the usga/r & a/etc can fuse everything together in a logical way to the golfing world ... golf rules require so much specificity that a generalized rule to "can't hold the club against your arm etc" can't be used, i don't think ... 

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Tgstan said:


This is such a bad and tired take on these putting handicap aids. 
 

Simply put, it’s not objectively better, it’s BETTER for PEOPLE WHO CANT PUTT with what we all know a true putting stroke is. Better for people who can’t deliver the face as square as they would like. It’s better for people who get nervy. It’s better for people who get yippy. 
 

Bryson gets the ball in the hole extremely well with his technique. However, generally speaking, players who adopt these crutches  don’t identify putting as a strength. 
 

 


"I think when you look at what guys are doing now with the arm lock and moving the grips to the side where it's parallel or matches the face and then when you do that up against your arm, I mean, it's—you know that face is dead square and that face doesn't rotate at all," Horschel continuted. "It's just sort of locked in. Guys are doing it too good." --- Billy Horschel 

It sure sounds like Billy sees a physical, technical advantage to the arm lock.

 

Just like anchoring the grip to the belly creates a more consistent stroke.

 

So, I think one can argue it IS "objectively better" in some ways.

Making the argument just about "people who can't putt" is actually such a bad take. 

Even the best putters in the world struggle to square the face 100% of the time. That's why Tiger does the gate drill so religiously. If there is a method that makes it easier or more likely to have the face square at impact (which armlock does), that is an objectively better method. 

 

You have no way of demonstrating that a "good putter" wouldn't putt even better with an arm lock putter. 

Edited by straightshot7
Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, straightshot7 said:


"I think when you look at what guys are doing now with the arm lock and moving the grips to the side where it's parallel or matches the face and then when you do that up against your arm, I mean, it's—you know that face is dead square and that face doesn't rotate at all," Horschel continuted. "It's just sort of locked in. Guys are doing it too good." --- Billy Horschel 

It sure sounds like Billy sees a physical, technical advantage to the arm lock.

 

Just like anchoring the grip to the belly creates a more consistent stroke.

 

So, I think one can argue it IS "objectively better" in some ways.

Making the argument just about "people who can't putt" is actually such a bad take. 

Great point. I agree about keeping the face square. I should have been more clear. My point was that, historically, players go to these things when putting is a struggle. 
 

I specifically mentioned BD because I think he represents the new breed of player who is in fact looking for the superior mechanical advantage. And I expect others will follow for that same reason. 

Edited by Tgstan
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, straightshot7 said:


"I think when you look at what guys are doing now with the arm lock and moving the grips to the side where it's parallel or matches the face and then when you do that up against your arm, I mean, it's—you know that face is dead square and that face doesn't rotate at all," Horschel continuted. "It's just sort of locked in. Guys are doing it too good." --- Billy Horschel 

It sure sounds like Billy sees a physical, technical advantage to the arm lock.

 

Just like anchoring the grip to the belly creates a more consistent stroke.

 

So, I think one can argue it IS "objectively better" in some ways.

Making the argument just about "people who can't putt" is actually such a bad take. 

Even the best putters in the world struggle to square the face 100% of the time. That's why Tiger does the gate drill so religiously. If there is a method that makes it easier or more likely to have the face square at impact (which armlock does), that is an objectively better method. 

 

You have no way of demonstrating that a "good putter" wouldn't putt even better with an arm lock putter. 

Isn’t the face staying square the idea behind face balanced putters? Also, isn’t that the selling point of the Directed Force putters? DF even has an apparatus that demonstrates how their putter stays square during the stroke vs. other putters. I just wonder if Billy is in a bit of a putting slump, and frustrated?

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, disco111 said:

I say they do away with any and every putter and only allow players to putt with their foot............now that would be skillful and just think of the TV ratings jump when all the soccer fans start to tune in...........

George Low who designed Jack’s Wizard 600 putter was quite good putting with his foot. I’ve read he could kick em in from all over the green.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Our picks

    • Ping i59 irons - 2021 Wells Fargo Championship
      Ping i59 irons - 2021 Wells Fargo Championship
        • Thanks
        • Like
      • 132 replies
    • 2021 Wells Fargo - Discussion & Links
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       

       
      2021 Wells Fargo - Tuesday #1
      2021 Wells Fargo - Tuesday #2
      2021 Wells Fargo - Tuesday #3
      2021 Wells Fargo - Tuesday #4
      2021 Wells Fargo - Tuesday #5
       
      2021 Wells Fargo - Wednesday #1
      2021 Wells Fargo - Wednesday #2
       
       

       
       
       

       
      Bettinardi putters & covers - 2021 Wells Fargo
      Ping i59 irons - 2021 Wells Fargo Championship
      New Ping Glide Forged Pro wedge - 2021 Wells Fargo
      Behind the scenes on the PXG truck - 2021 Wells Fargo
      PXG Gen 4 0311 T & 0311 ST irons - 2021 Wells Fargo
      Jason Day testing a SIK putter with LA Golf shaft - 2021 Wells Fargo
      Scotty Cameron T2 putter - 2021 Wells Fargo
      KH Lee's Odyssey putter - - 2021 Wells Fargo
      Patrick Cantlay's Cameron T-5 - 2021 Wells Fargo
      Rory has the TM "Rors" protos in the bag - 2021 Wells Fargo
       
       
        • Like
      • 17 replies
    • 2021 Valspar Championship - discussion and links
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
      2021 Valspar Championship - Tuesday #1
      2021 Valspar Championship - Tuesday #2
      2021 Valspar Championship - Tuesday #3
      2021 Valspar Championship - Tuesday #4
      2021 Valspar Championship - Tuesday #4
      2021 Valspar Championship - Tuesday #6
      2021 Valspar Championship - Tuesday #7
      2021 Valspar Championship - Tuesday #8
      2021 Valspar Championship - Tuesday #9
      2021 Valspar Championship - Tuesday #10
      2021 Valspar Championship - Tuesday #11
       
       
       
       
       
       
       

       
      Bettinardi putters - 2021 Valspar Championship
      Axis 1 Proto - 2021 Valspar Championship
      Jimmy Walker "testing" a LA Golf proto putter - 2021 Valspar Championship
      Scotty Cameron putter - 2021 Valspar Championship
       
      • 17 replies
    • Post in Ping 2021 Irons
      Victor has i59 in the bag this week!
        • Thanks
        • Like
    • 2021 RBC Heritage - discussions and links
      Please post any questions and comments here.
       
      2021 RBC Heritage - Tuesday #1
      2021 RBC Heritage - Tuesday #2
      2021 RBC Heritage - Tuesday #3
      2021 RBC Heritage - Tuesday #4
      2021 RBC Heritage - Tuesday #5
      2021 RBC Heritage - Tuesday #6
      2021 RBC Heritage - Tuesday #7
      2021 RBC Heritage - Tuesday #8
      2021 RBC Heritage - Tuesday #9
      2021 RBC Heritage - Tuesday #10
       

       
      2021 RBC Heritage - Tuesday #1
      2021 RBC Heritage - Tuesday #2
      2021 RBC Heritage - Tuesday #3
      2021 RBC Heritage - Tuesday #4
      2021 RBC Heritage - Tuesday #5
      2021 RBC Heritage - Tuesday #6
      2021 RBC Heritage - Tuesday #7
      2021 RBC Heritage - Tuesday #8
      2021 RBC Heritage - Tuesday #9
      2021 RBC Heritage - Tuesday #10
       
       

       
      Custom Cameron putters - 2021 RBC Heritage
      Bettinardi putter - 2021 RBC Heritage
      Robert Streb's custom stamped Vokey wedge - 2021 RBC Heritage
      Ben An's custom stamped Vokey - 2021 RBC Heritage
      • 17 replies

×
×
  • Create New...