Billy Horschel Ban Armlock Putting

[Obee]

2 hours ago, Tgstan said:

 Ok. If that’s the case I’m going to bag a putter that looks a lot like my pool cue and I’ll never miss inside six feet again. 

Okay, ban straddle AND pool cue putting... 😉

[mogc60]

10 hours ago, gvogel said:

I think that the long putter should have been banned because both hands were not working together.  One hand was still while the other hand made the stroke.  To me, that is "levering", not a stroke.

 

I say that if the armlock is OK, then belly putting should be too.  Both hands work together to make the stroke.

 

By the way, that is what Harvey Penick thought as well.

So ban the claw??

[mogc60]

9 hours ago, Nard_S said:

It definitely should be banned. Triangulating the club and eliminating possible lead wrist break down. A max length of 36'-37" invoked.

 

The big issue then is do you have to somewhat ban left hand low? I don't use it, but how's the arm lock and left hand low so different? Good luck with that can of worms.

So Ray Floyd’s 39” putter would have been illegal?  What about my friend, +3 handicap thats 6’8”? His putter is 42”

[Nard_S]

19 minutes ago, mogc60 said:

So Ray Floyd’s 39” putter would have been illegal?  What about my friend, +3 handicap thats 6’8”? His putter is 42”

Lot of Pro's these days are at 33"-34", so cry me a river for Floyd and your friend.

[iBanesto]

7 hours ago, Aaronwilson_95 said:

Take it or leave but one could make a case this is “locked “ above his palms. 

 

[PEI_Golfer]

I'm all for banning it.  Have always felt the swing/stroke was to be an extension of the hands.  

[bladehunter]

I’ll throw my vote in to either ban or allow belly and other anchored methods.  
 

personally I’m ok with repealing the anchor ban.  But , ive armlocked and can say that it’s an anchored stroke.  And  if one is unscrupulous, you can even build it to a length that will allow you to get the butt end against your side and essentially make it a forward pressed belly putter. Pretty much impossible  to detect if your hunched over like Kuchar.  ( not saying he does this ) 

Edited April 18, 2021 by bladehunter

[hammersia]

It’s been a nonsense for 40 years. Rule should always have been both hands facing down no part of the club touching anything except the hands. 
 

Everything else is ugly, ugly, ugly. And cheating. Aesthetics matter. 
 

Yips? Part of the game. As they are for darts, basketball, extra points, soccer penalties etc etc.

[MtlJeff]

22 hours ago, Big GG said:

Others did it long before Bryson. Why does everyone think when someone wants something banned or changed it revolves around him. Kuchar started arm locking before Bryson ever left college.

 

The USGA is a very, very old fashioned organization run by people who pleasure themselves to posters on their wall that read "tradition". 

 

One or two people doing something different if they are quiet about it, or it doesn't threaten to become a big deal is never a problem. Guys always used belly putters too but it was mostly guys who werent that great, had reputations for being wrecks on the greens, and a major had never been won with it. Than in 2-3 years i believe >50% of the majors were won with a belly and they banned it. Because it's different and as it gained in notoriety amongst golfers who weren't older guys with jittery nerves, enough was enough

 

The USGA hates Bryson whether they admit it or not. Because he thinks about golf differently. He dove deep into distance theory, he does things like single length and he'll try all sorts of different mechanical methods of getting the ball in the hole. Worst of all , he is popular and wins

 

No one is watching Kuchar and imitating him. The USGA is fine with him doing weird stuff. But if Bryson does weird stuff, other people will do weird stuff. And that can't happen because golf has to look a certain way

 

[gvogel]

12 hours ago, mogc60 said:

So ban the claw??

No, the hands work together in making a stroke with the claw.  It's just a different grip.  And if you have the yips, it gives you a chance to make a putt.

[mogc60]

13 hours ago, Nard_S said:

Lot of Pro's these days are at 33"-34", so cry me a river for Floyd and your friend.

Didnt realize I was crying just pointing out your one size fits all theory might be a bit off. Settle down nards 

[mogc60]

I don’t get why they are banning anything as it relates to putting. I don’t armlock, never used a belly or long putter and have seen guys putt horribly or great with all methods. I’ve always been a very good putter. I could care less how other people do it. Putting has so many variables that there are no band aids. If you can’t read greens you can’t putt, period! If you have poor touch, you can’t putt. No matter the method. If you can’t line up, you can’t putt. If you can’t put them all together, well no matter what method you use you will be a bad putter.  I just think it’s ok to leave things open for players to experiment and try different techniques. Split grip, cross hand, claw, armlock, belly, long...they don’t all work for everyone if they did everyone would do it the same. I use my thumb and forefinger of my right hand...the rest is just fluff. That’s all I focus on, but that’s me and I feel others should be able to use what fits them. 

[Nard_S]

5 hours ago, mogc60 said:

Didnt realize I was crying just pointing out your one size fits all theory might be a bit off. Settle down nards 

Not excited at all. Truth be told, think the 36" putter is massive misfit for the masses. I use 34" could easily do 32". Also folks get all panties in a bunch about USGA  doing anything that never ever effects them. You know how many long putters I've seen in actual use in last 25 years? Zero.

 

[skyking]

Heck, I found a lefty arm lock on 2nd Swing yesterday...bam. It’s the original model Kutcher used...slim pickings for lefties and damn they’re expensive. I’ll start making putts from downtown after the delivery on Wednesday. If you’re not cheating...you’re not trying!  

[LifeStory]

It's just a crutch for people with a yippy/insecure stroke. Get rid of it lol, no brainer really.

[Josh L.]

So say they decide to reverse the ban, how many guys would immediately go back to belly or chest anchored putters? Most of the belly users went to the arm lock style of putting, and most of the broomstick putters just cut the putter down a few inches and stopped anchoring. Off the top of my head I'd guess Adam Scott and Bernhard Langer would anchor again, I'd assume guys like Webb Simpson would just stick to arm locking. 

 

Personally I think they should just reverse it, there was only a small crop of players using it. A few won majors and everyone freaked out meanwhile the guys leading the putting stats were largely using traditional putters. 

[milesgiles]

On 4/18/2021 at 3:44 AM, iBanesto said:

 

 

 

 

arguing over this is the same as arguing for relief from divots.

 

you cant define a divot, therefore you cant write a rule

 

you cant say if someone is anchoring to their left arm, any left hand low the grip can graze your forearm. The end of my putter is on my wrist.. Outlaw that? Half inch lower? 

 

Any anchoring to the body is completely different and should never have been allowed. But if you want to ban any type of armlock, tell me how you would write the rule

 

 

[Big GG]

22 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

 

The USGA is a very, very old fashioned organization run by people who pleasure themselves to posters on their wall that read "tradition". 

 

One or two people doing something different if they are quiet about it, or it doesn't threaten to become a big deal is never a problem. Guys always used belly putters too but it was mostly guys who werent that great, had reputations for being wrecks on the greens, and a major had never been won with it. Than in 2-3 years i believe >50% of the majors were won with a belly and they banned it. Because it's different and as it gained in notoriety amongst golfers who weren't older guys with jittery nerves, enough was enough

 

The USGA hates Bryson whether they admit it or not. Because he thinks about golf differently. He dove deep into distance theory, he does things like single length and he'll try all sorts of different mechanical methods of getting the ball in the hole. Worst of all , he is popular and wins

 

No one is watching Kuchar and imitating him. The USGA is fine with him doing weird stuff. But if Bryson does weird stuff, other people will do weird stuff. And that can't happen because golf has to look a certain way

 

The USGA has not said anything about banning arm lock putting. What exactly has the USGA banned because of Bryson? They may not like him but but they have not banned anything just because of him.

[MtlJeff]

27 minutes ago, Big GG said:

The USGA has not said anything about banning arm lock putting. What exactly has the USGA banned because of Bryson? They may not like him but but they have not banned anything just because of him.

 

Yes i dont disagree with that right now, you are right. I guess i could just see it happening

[b.mattay]

As long as I can putt sidesaddle I don't care 😂

[driveandputtmachine]

All opinion here, but this just screams as needy.

 

His name trended when he was playing well, play teetered off, then his name trended again over the hissy fit he threw with slamming the clubs down inside of his bag.  Now he goes and makes a statement like this?  Just screams as somebody look at me.

 

The problem is we are looking. Horschel isn't short, but isn't overly tall either.  Wiki lists him at 6'0", which is a stretch based on how tall I am and having stood next to him, but that's not the point.

 

Horschel is a left hand low putting guy.  However unlike Speith (probably the most well known left hand low righty),he runs his left hand down the putter grip, and braces the grip against his left forearm.  He then slides his right hand on and his fingers of that hand "lock: into his left forearm with the shaft of his putter.  He didn't used to putt this way he used to be more like Speith, there are plenty of pictures out there to support it, he changed and is doing the "arm-lock" thing but I guess he thinks his way of doing it is ok.

 

If you say armlock should be banned, then whatever you call what Horschel is doing should be banned too, and for the exact effing reason.

 

Long and belly putters were banned because of tradition, no other reason.  If the original golfers had all had bad backs then the original putter might have been longer.  Or if you didn't have to basically chip on greens originally.   Using a belly or a chest lock long putter isn't an overall better way to putt.  Neither is arm lock.  If it was then EVERYONE would be doing it.  I've tried it, I have less control over the face with it than I do standard putting with all three methods.  Do these methods help guys?  Yeah the same way guys have different swings and some are swinging 95 gram shafts in their irons and others 130 gram shafts.  An arm lock may help a guy start his putts more often on line, just like the 130 gram shafts may help another start his iron shafts on the intended target.

 

If arm lock is banned the players that struggle using the "standard" putter will find another way around it.

[loneacer]

The problem is that golfers are taking the oversize putter grips, rotating them so the flat side faces the arm, and bracing the flat grip against their arm.  That makes it impossible for the hands to rotate the putter face.  If nothing else, make it a rule that the flat side of the grip must face in the traditional direction.

[BURKMI19]

On 4/16/2021 at 5:27 PM, Big GG said:

 

Horschel says ban it.

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/billy-horschel-says-arm-lock-putting-should-be-banned-pga-tour

This is a great topic and definitely something that has become very heated over time.  Very simply, the golf club should not be allowed to touch, adhere to, or use any part of the body other than the hands to swing.  The club isn't "swinging" if it is anchored to something.  "Arm Lock" isn't even the proper terminology because the shaft isn't "locked" to the arm it is "anchored" to the arm.

[driveandputtmachine]

2 minutes ago, BURKMI19 said:

This is a great topic and definitely something that has become very heated over time.  Very simply, the golf club should not be allowed to touch, adhere to, or use any part of the body other than the hands to swing.  The club isn't "swinging" if it is anchored to something.  "Arm Lock" isn't even the proper terminology because the shaft isn't "locked" to the arm it is "anchored" to the arm.

However Horschel is anchoring his right hand against his left forearm.  So just because his fingers are between the grip and his left forearm, his way of doing it should be allowed?  It is still the same thing.  The way your red lined wording would allow Horschel to anchor, but not W Simpson or Zalatoris.

 

The way Horschel does it accomplishes the same thing, but either the optics look better, or because his fingers could stop the left forearm from contacting the grip it is ok is just silly.  Basically it is allowing left hand low guys to anchor and not right hand low guys.

[driveandputtmachine]

32 minutes ago, loneacer said:

The problem is that golfers are taking the oversize putter grips, rotating them so the flat side faces the arm, and bracing the flat grip against their arm.  That makes it impossible for the hands to rotate the putter face.  If nothing else, make it a rule that the flat side of the grip must face in the traditional direction.

I know Bryson does rotate the flat side to his left forearm, but does anyone else?

 

I looked at pics for W Simpson and Zalatoris, and neither of them have their grip aligned that way.  I have not looked to see if Kisner in his experiment rotated his grip.  Kuchar did not on his old putter, but now he appears to be anchoring to his right arm instead and I have not looked at his grip.

 

Is this just a knee jerk Bryson statement or are there other guys doing it?

[BlackDiamondPar5]

Based on how 47 year old Cink dominated the Heritage I hear the USGA may be taking a look at whether a streamlined, low drag, bald head  could be a potential advantage. 🤣

[bladehunter]

On 4/18/2021 at 8:43 AM, MtlJeff said:

 

The USGA is a very, very old fashioned organization run by people who pleasure themselves to posters on their wall that read "tradition". 

 

One or two people doing something different if they are quiet about it, or it doesn't threaten to become a big deal is never a problem. Guys always used belly putters too but it was mostly guys who werent that great, had reputations for being wrecks on the greens, and a major had never been won with it. Than in 2-3 years i believe >50% of the majors were won with a belly and they banned it. Because it's different and as it gained in notoriety amongst golfers who weren't older guys with jittery nerves, enough was enough

 

The USGA hates Bryson whether they admit it or not. Because he thinks about golf differently. He dove deep into distance theory, he does things like single length and he'll try all sorts of different mechanical methods of getting the ball in the hole. Worst of all , he is popular and wins

 

No one is watching Kuchar and imitating him. The USGA is fine with him doing weird stuff. But if Bryson does weird stuff, other people will do weird stuff. And that can't happen because golf has to look a certain way

 

So what we really need to ban - is Bryson !!!! 
 

 

😂

[bladehunter]

50 minutes ago, driveandputtmachine said:

I know Bryson does rotate the flat side to his left forearm, but does anyone else?

 

I looked at pics for W Simpson and Zalatoris, and neither of them have their grip aligned that way.  I have not looked to see if Kisner in his experiment rotated his grip.  Kuchar did not on his old putter, but now he appears to be anchoring to his right arm instead and I have not looked at his grip.

 

Is this just a knee jerk Bryson statement or are there other guys doing it?

The grips that zalatarious and webb are using have flat sides too. Just skinnier grips.  The one bryson uses isn’t rotated , it’s meant to be played that way.  It’s designed  as a face controlling part of the deal. 
 

webb and zalacanocus take it a step farther by also using the claw on the lower hand. Which also limits or stops face rotating.  
 

if you look at armlocks on eBay for sale.  75% will have Bryson’s grip on them.  Only the stock odyssey’s won’t.  

Edited April 19, 2021 by bladehunter

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, driveandputtmachine said:

However Horschel is anchoring his right hand against his left forearm.  So just because his fingers are between the grip and his left forearm, his way of doing it should be allowed?  It is still the same thing.  The way your red lined wording would allow Horschel to anchor, but not W Simpson or Zalatoris.

 

The way Horschel does it accomplishes the same thing, but either the optics look better, or because his fingers could stop the left forearm from contacting the grip it is ok is just silly.  Basically it is allowing left hand low guys to anchor and not right hand low guys.

Billy really isn’t anchoring.  You can still break the left wrist with his stroke. You’d have to grip it like Langer 30 plus years ago by wrapping the right hand over the grip and latching it to the left arm to prevent the club from having any chance t break down.  
 

with armlock it can’t break down as long as you don’t hyperextend the left wrist back.  But you can move the left hand really weak to prevent this from happening at all. Moves the wrist hinge point t make it not be able to.  
 

armlock is an advantage IF someone takes the months to work it out.  Especially when/if someone on tour figures out that left hand low plus armlock equals 100 % anchored.  The top of the grip is then glued to the left forearm .   If you’re a lefty playing righty , try this.  

[Bad9]

On 4/17/2021 at 7:12 PM, Tgstan said:

... generally speaking, players who adopt these crutches  don’t identify putting as a strength. 
 

 

This is why I don't see Zalatoris being a big star. He's what, 24yrs old, and has already adopted two putting crutches and still looks shaky on the greens.