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Shaft or clubhead ---if you must decide


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I'm kinda bored as Mrs MtlJeff is out with little Mrs MtlJeff ....

 

I bought a new hybrid the other day (Titleist TS3) because it had my favorite shaft , which is the Hzrdus Smoke Black. I didn't even really consider the head....I just assumed that with that shaft it would work for me. But it made me think, with some clubs does the head even matter to me? or is the shaft like 95% of the decision (for Hybrids i would say this is the case)

 

So here's the hypothetical: A genie appears and tells you that you must get a fully new golf bag. For each section of clubs you get to choose either the clubhead you want, or the shaft you want. NOT BOTH. The item you don't choose gets selected for you via a random generator/selector of every product on the market from a mainstream OEM. So for example if you choose an Epic Flash Driver head, you get that head but the shaft gets selected for you at random. or vice versa. 

 

How would you build your bag? For me i'd go:

 

Driver: I'd choose shaft (Smoke Black)

3 Wood: Same

Hybrid: Same

Irons: Toughest call by a mile. I honestly am leaning towards picking club heads (Forged Tec) and rolling the dice on shaft. I feel like most mainstream shafts work at least OK for me

Wedges: I'd pick club head, shaft doesn't matter to me with wedges. 

 

 

 

 

Cobra Radspeed XB tour length 9 w/ PX Hzrdus RDX Smoke Black 80
Cobra F9 Tour 13.5 w/PX Hzrdus Smoke Black 70
Titleist TS3 Hybrid 20 w/ PX Hzrdus Smoke Black 80
Cobra King Forged TEC 4-GW w/Nippon Modus 130

Cobra King MIM Black 56 and 60 wedges w/ Modus 130

SGC #002 flow neck 385g

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Heads.  Shafts don't matter nearly as much just as long as they are the proper length and weight.

Would pick heads, with the counter stipulation I pick the general weight range for the shafts...

If I don't like the look of a head I won't be able to play well with it, so head for me.   I can always swap shafts later. 😁

not a bad topic Jeff, im a firm believer in the correct shaft for each golfer and for each club.

 

id wager that there would be guys out the swinging TI X100 or C Taper X in Ping G410 excavators and guys with XP95 R300 or Nippon GEO 95 in MB101s or P7MBs etc, different strokes for different folks (a we pun there)

 

so i would be in the shaft camp for sure.

 

im guessing in your we experiment you get to pick your flex through the bag?

Epic Speed  G400 2H  G410 4H  X-Forged UT  Apex Pro '19  PM Grind 2.0  Newport 3

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4 minutes ago, DMartini said:

not a bad topic Jeff, im a firm believer in the correct shaft for each golfer and for each club.

 

id wager that there would be guys out the swinging TI X100 or C Taper X in Ping G410 excavators and guys with XP95 R300 or Nippon GEO 95 in MB101s or P7MBs etc, different strokes for different folks (a we pun there)

 

so i would be in the shaft camp for sure.

 

im guessing in your we experiment you get to pick your flex through the bag?

 

Yes, if you choose clubhead the only thing you could specify for shaft is the flex. Other than that, they spin the wheel and you get what you get!

 

Opposite would work like this: If you choose shaft, you get to pick the loft of your club (so you wouldn't end up with like a 13.5 degree driver etc)

 

 

Cobra Radspeed XB tour length 9 w/ PX Hzrdus RDX Smoke Black 80
Cobra F9 Tour 13.5 w/PX Hzrdus Smoke Black 70
Titleist TS3 Hybrid 20 w/ PX Hzrdus Smoke Black 80
Cobra King Forged TEC 4-GW w/Nippon Modus 130

Cobra King MIM Black 56 and 60 wedges w/ Modus 130

SGC #002 flow neck 385g

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If I don't like the look of a head I won't be able to play well with it, so head for me.

 

I can always swap shafts later. 😁

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Cobra RAD Speed 9* : Ventus Blue 6-S

Cobra RAD Speed 3W : Graphite Design AD TP8-S

Cobra ForgedTec 3-iron : Ventus Blue HB 8-S

Srixon Z785 4-PW : Nippon Modus3 120-S

Cleveland RTX3 50, 54: Nippon 115-S Wedge

Cobra MIM Black 58 : Nippon 125-S Wedge

Piretti Potenza 370g : Breakthrough Technology Stability Shaft - 34"

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I gotta go with heads on everything. There are just some brands I will not use. 😁

SRIXON ZX5 9.5 MIYAZAKI MIZORE 60X.                                              SRIXON ZX 13.5 MIYAZAKI MIZORE 70X                                               SRIXON H85 16 MATRIX BLACKTIE 95 SRIXON Z FORGED 4-PW CATALYST 100 6.5                                   CLEVELAND RTX4 50* CATALYST 100 6.0                                        CLEVELAND RTX4 54* CATALYST 100 6.0                                         CLEVELAND RTX4 58* CATALYST 100 6.0.                                             SEEMORE mFGP20 PLATINUM 38” SNELL MTB-X

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As much as a shaft snob as I am, if I had to pick and “make do” with one or the other picking the heads for everything would be my choice. 

TSi3 9*/Ventus Black 7x

TSi2 16.5*/Ventus Black 8x

TSi3 19*/Ventus Black 10tx

U500 3/Dynamic Gold X7

T100•s 5-9/Dynamic Gold X7

SM8 46/Dynamic Gold X7

SM8 50, 54, 58/Dynamic TI X100

PXG One and Done/BGT Stability 

 

WITB Thread

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Shaft hands down.  Any good player can play any modern club head provided it's within the vicinity of the ideal loft.  Flex matters, so does length and profile.  Even though the club head makes the biggest difference in launch and spin, I'm a firm believer that the shaft is the engine. 

TM SIM 2, 8* w/Ventus Black 7x

TM SIM 15* w/TB 80x

TM Tour Issue Deep Face Ghost Proto TP 2 HB  w/Thump 105x

New Level NLU-01 21* w/KBS Proto 105x

New Level 623-M 5-PW w/MMT 125 TX

54* Miura HB w/KBS 610 S+, 58* Miura w/KBS Tour Black

Scotty Cameron Studio Select Newport 1

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

A genie appears and tells you that you must get a fully new golf bag. For each section of clubs you get to choose either the clubhead you want, or the shaft you want. NOT BOTH.

 

A genie or a grifter? Beware! Let's review the placard I have seen next to the launch monitor fitting station at more than one golf shop...

 

Influences on ball flight:

  1. Clubhead loft and design is the biggest influence.
  2. Shaft (with flex, weight, and bend dynamics) is a fine-tuning choice.
  3. Grip (get right size so you don't  introduce wobble into swing)

 

7 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

The item you don't choose gets selected for you via a random generator/selector of every product on the market from a mainstream OEM.

 

This is too much like what happens when people get a club off of eBay that they have never seen before in person.

 

Again, are you sure this apparition is a genie?

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What's In The Bag (Summary as of October 2020)

 

Driver:  Tour Edge EXS 10.5°, weights neutral   ||  FWs:  Calla Rogue 4W + 7W

Hybrid:  Calla Big Bertha OS 4H at 22°  ||  Irons:  Tour Edge CB Pro Tungsten 4i-9i

Wedges*:  Calla MD3: 48°, 54°... MD4: 58° ||  Putter: Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced)

Ball: Calla SuperHot (Orange preferred)  ||  Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag

For details see:  Pending (need protocol to embed file list).

     * MD4 54°/10 S-Grind being tested as possible SW to replace MD3 54°/12 W-Grind.

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8 hours ago, ChipNRun said:

 

A genie or a grifter? Beware! Let's review the placard I have seen next to the launch monitor fitting station at more than one golf shop...

 

Influences on ball flight:

  1. Clubhead loft and design is the biggest influence.
  2. Shaft (with flex, weight, and bend dynamics) is a fine-tuning choice.
  3. Grip (get right size so you don't  introduce wobble into swing)

 

 

This is too much like what happens when people get a club off of eBay that they have never seen before in person.

 

Again, are you sure this apparition is a genie?

 

I like the idea of a genie, i've met enough grifters! And they have most of my stuff now. Stupid grifters and their convincing schemes.

 

I've thought many times about heads vs shaft. I really wonder. For some reason i feel more confident with a driver saying "Give me an 80G Hzrdus Black" and whatever head i get will be fine. 

 

I'm less confident saying "Give me a Mavrik Subzero" or something like and taking the chance that i could end up with a 60G high launch shaft or something. 

 

It's hard for me to imagine any clubhead could negatively impact me as much as that 60G high launch shaft. But i could be wrong, i don't know a ton about this stuff

Cobra Radspeed XB tour length 9 w/ PX Hzrdus RDX Smoke Black 80
Cobra F9 Tour 13.5 w/PX Hzrdus Smoke Black 70
Titleist TS3 Hybrid 20 w/ PX Hzrdus Smoke Black 80
Cobra King Forged TEC 4-GW w/Nippon Modus 130

Cobra King MIM Black 56 and 60 wedges w/ Modus 130

SGC #002 flow neck 385g

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Heads.  Shafts don't matter nearly as much just as long as they are the proper length and weight.

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Ping G400 Max driver w/Aldila Rogue 125 Silver 60S
Cobra (Lexi blue) F7 5 wood w/Aldila Rogue Black 70S
Cobra (Lexi blue) F7 Hybrid w/Aldila Kuro Kage 80S
Ping G410 irons w/Recoil 95S
Ping Glide 55/60 wedges w/Recoil 110S
Ping Anser/Arna putter - the "real deal!"

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7 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

I've thought many times about heads vs shaft. I really wonder. For some reason i feel more confident with a driver saying "Give me an 80G Hzrdus Black" and whatever head i get will be fine. 

 

I'm less confident saying "Give me a Mavrik Subzero" or something like and taking the chance that i could end up with a 60G high launch shaft or something. 

 

It's hard for me to imagine any clubhead could negatively impact me as much as that 60G high launch shaft. But i could be wrong, i don't know a ton about this stuff

 

@MtlJeff of 0.1 HDCP.... You may not know a ton about this stuff, but big deal. You just go out and play scratch golf.

 

And, the idea about the clubhead as primary influence and shaft as fine-tuning seems to be dominant opinion in industry. This is the broad boundaries...

 

So, we'll get into what all this means for different groups of golfers.

  • For players who struggle to break 90 (me lately), get clubs that won't hurt your game.
  • For players who shoot in the 70s (or lower, that's you), get clubs that enhance your game. That's why you think about fine-tuning, that's how you squeeze out a stroke or two.
  • For players in between, get clubs for the swing you have today, not what you hope to have next year.

For me this year, I'll get fitted for irons. I turned 70, and my current steel shafts are a bit hard to control. I was taking notes on a short list of iron models with my long-term pro, but he retired and moved back to Idaho. (I live in St. Louis area). I'll be shifting to graphites in irons and wedges.

 

So, I want to be in control of both head choice and shaft pick.

 

Personal note on shafts: In recent years rough fittings encouraged GI irons with circa-100 gram shafts. In rough fittings, KBS Tour 90, DG.105, Recoil 95 and SteelFiber 80-CW regularly came up as suggested shafts. I have come to call this my shaft band, basically a group of shafts that have similar dynamics and tend to work well in testing.

 

@MtlJeff, what shafts are in your shaft band for irons? ( Didn't mean to hijack the thread... 🤔)

 

And for drivers...

 

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What's In The Bag (Summary as of October 2020)

 

Driver:  Tour Edge EXS 10.5°, weights neutral   ||  FWs:  Calla Rogue 4W + 7W

Hybrid:  Calla Big Bertha OS 4H at 22°  ||  Irons:  Tour Edge CB Pro Tungsten 4i-9i

Wedges*:  Calla MD3: 48°, 54°... MD4: 58° ||  Putter: Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced)

Ball: Calla SuperHot (Orange preferred)  ||  Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag

For details see:  Pending (need protocol to embed file list).

     * MD4 54°/10 S-Grind being tested as possible SW to replace MD3 54°/12 W-Grind.

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1 hour ago, ChipNRun said:

 

@MtlJeff of 0.1 HDCP.... You may not know a ton about this stuff, but big deal. You just go out and play scratch golf.

 

And, the idea about the clubhead as primary influence and shaft as fine-tuning seems to be dominant opinion in industry. This is the broad boundaries...

 

So, we'll get into what all this means for different groups of golfers.

  • For players who struggle to break 90 (me lately), get clubs that won't hurt your game.
  • For players who shoot in the 70s (or lower, that's you), get clubs that enhance your game. That's why you think about fine-tuning, that's how you squeeze out a stroke or two.
  • For players in between, get clubs for the swing you have today, not what you hope to have next year.

For me this year, I'll get fitted for irons. I turned 70, and my current steel shafts are a bit hard to control. I was taking notes on a short list of iron models with my long-term pro, but he retired and moved back to Idaho. (I live in St. Louis area). I'll be shifting to graphites in irons and wedges.

 

So, I want to be in control of both head choice and shaft pick.

 

Personal note on shafts: In recent years rough fittings encouraged GI irons with circa-100 gram shafts. In rough fittings, KBS Tour 90, DG.105, Recoil 95 and SteelFiber 80-CW regularly came up as suggested shafts. I have come to call this my shaft band, basically a group of shafts that have similar dynamics and tend to work well in testing.

 

@MtlJeff, what shafts are in your shaft band for irons? ( Didn't mean to hijack the thread... 🤔)

 

And for drivers...

 

 

Oh i definitely know what you mean with "Shaft band"

 

For irons , if i'm using SGI's i will go KBS C-Tapers or S300s. If i'm using more of a player's club i will go Modus 130's or DG AMT tour White. Reason being that with player's clubs i need more help getting the 4 and 5 irons elevated

 

With drivers it's something low launch / low spin and heavy. HZrdus Smoke Black is my choice these days. Prior to that it was either the Matrix Black Tie or Diamana D+ family

Cobra Radspeed XB tour length 9 w/ PX Hzrdus RDX Smoke Black 80
Cobra F9 Tour 13.5 w/PX Hzrdus Smoke Black 70
Titleist TS3 Hybrid 20 w/ PX Hzrdus Smoke Black 80
Cobra King Forged TEC 4-GW w/Nippon Modus 130

Cobra King MIM Black 56 and 60 wedges w/ Modus 130

SGC #002 flow neck 385g

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