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Rule 4.3 - Penalty Question


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10 hours ago, Sawgrass said:

Yes.  How do you read it?

I don't read it as black and white and I think there is allot ambiguity.  I have no firm position, but these are my thoughts.

 

IF I was left on my own with no other resources to make the call, I would call the first instance - "all information required to make the a stroke", the second only occurring when an additional stroke is made. I admit this somewhat arbitrary and hard to justify fully within the language of the rules

 

I guess I would bridge this discussion into practice aids too (also in 4.3). The language is interesting in this section as it says A practice swing (not multiple but singular). So if you swing a practice club twice, it would appear to be 2 breaches, even if a stroke has not been taken. This certainly supports your positions, but it also then goes on to talk about in preparation for A stroke, which seems to support my thinking.

 

🤷‍♂️

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, antip said:

It's just the same as taking two practice swings in the bunker (hitting the sand) before the stroke. If you are not aware of breach, it is one penalty. You do it once and some says that is a breach and you do it again, that is two breaches. You do it once before a stroke where ball remains in bunker and you practice swing again, that also scores two breaches.

 

2B has raised this same question 3 times in this thread. The answer remains the same each time.

A great analogy for sure. I guess one difference is making a practice swing in the bunker has a clear end and beginning. It is pretty easy to say if it happen once or twice.

 

When does 'listening' to music or other audio begin and end? You have to be able to define this to state what the first instance was and second was etc.

 

If the intended definition is so narrow that it is virtually impossible to have a single instance, then why bother having a graduated penalty  based on number of instances?

 

Thanks for such an interesting dialogue.

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, 2bGood said:

A great analogy for sure. I guess one difference is making a practice swing in the bunker has a clear end and beginning. It is pretty easy to say if it happen once or twice.

 

When does 'listening' to music or other audio begin and end? You have to be able to define this to state what the first instance was and second was etc.

 

If the intended definition is so narrow that it is virtually impossible to have a single instance, then why bother having a graduated penalty  based on number of instances?

 

 

Excellent point and only reinforces my view on the subject: listening to any audio during a round should be against the Rules, period.

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7 hours ago, 2bGood said:

A great analogy for sure. I guess one difference is making a practice swing in the bunker has a clear end and beginning. It is pretty easy to say if it happen once or twice.

 

When does 'listening' to music or other audio begin and end? You have to be able to define this to state what the first instance was and second was etc.

 

If the intended definition is so narrow that it is virtually impossible to have a single instance, then why bother having a graduated penalty  based on number of instances?

 

Thanks for such an interesting dialogue.

 

 

 

 

See 1.3c(4)/3

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1 hour ago, antip said:

See 1.3c(4)/3

Good one:

 

The interpositions are very helpful:

 

Unrelated acts in the context of Rule 1.3c(4) are acts of a player that are of a different type or associated with a different process.

Examples of unrelated acts where multiple penalties apply include:

  • Making a practice swing that touches sand in a bunker and bending an overhanging tree branch that interferes with the player’s swing.

  • Moving an immovable obstruction that improves the area of the player’s swing and pressing down grass behind the ball.

Examples of related acts where only one penalty applies include:

  • Making several practice swings that touch sand in a bunker.

  • Asking for two different pieces of advice, such as what club the player used and what the wind direction is, both related to the process of selecting what club to use for the next stroke.

What I bolded pretty much ends the discussion we are having for me. 

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