Sim2 worth the upgrade over the Sim?

[Phabs]

Coming from an M3 that I loved and played for years I’ve decided it’s probably time to upgrade.   Just looking for peoples thoughts who’ve owned both.  My only concern with the original sim is the fade bias that seems to exist for some with that head.  I play a draw 90% of my tee shots.  

[rugbydave]

From my experience...no.  SIM was better across the board for me.  The first SIM2 I got was sent back to TM (it was horrible and TM is replacing).  I hit a few of my buddy's and never got the results I did from my original SIM.  FWIW, my buddy came from an M3 to SIM2 and is very pleased.

[br61]

I had a SIM 10.5 that cracked and have SIM2 coming in. Sometime this year, I hope. I'm using my club's demo SIM2 for now. Not much difference other than lack of weight track in SIM2.

[JayAreOhh924]

This will be highly dependent on an individual basis. I had a Sim Max 9* and tested it against a Sim2 Max 9* and the numbers were identical. That said, my spin was in the 3k range with both. I went for a fitting to try to get that down and was fit into a Sim 2 8* (not Max) and my spin dropped to high 1k-low 2k. So, between the change of heads and the loft, I got into the window I need to be in. 

 

This may have been the same with the 2020 Sim 8* but there wasn't one available to test. 

[Cactus Jack]

As with most things in life, it depends. 
 

The original SIM is low spin. For some folks it was too low spin to keep the ball on a stable path. Depending on your swing that might be fantastic or a disaster. However, for those that hit the SIM well, and can benefit from the directional weight, the SIM can be an absolute monster. 
 

I think the general consensus with the SIM 2 is it a bit more forgiving and produces a bit more spin. Distance wise drivers are essentially maxed out so without a proper fit, you’ll likely see limited gains on center hits. However, off center strikes might perform slightly better. Coming from an M3 you might experience higher gains than others, but again, primarily on off center strikes. 

[Phabs]

I’ve seen a few issues with the sim track cracking out I’ll have to keep an eye on it.  I hover around scratch handicap and I’ll take the sim to a monitor once I get it and try to get it dialed in.  

I picked up a sim head for 270 and had a sim2 head available for around a hundred bucks more. Figured the sim was worth a shot.  I was a fan of the moveable weights on the M3 and used them often for testing which scared me a little on the sim2 head. 

[Phabs]

19 minutes ago, br61 said:

I had a SIM 10.5 that cracked and have SIM2 coming in. Sometime this year, I hope. I'm using my club's demo SIM2 for now. Not much difference other than lack of weight track in SIM2.

Face crack?  Or track?

[br61]

14 minutes ago, Phabs said:

Face crack?  Or track?

Track crack on heel side.

[trentyoung33]

54 minutes ago, rugbydave said:

From my experience...no.  SIM was better across the board for me.  The first SIM2 I got was sent back to TM (it was horrible and TM is replacing).  I hit a few of my buddy's and never got the results I did from my original SIM.  FWIW, my buddy came from an M3 to SIM2 and is very pleased.

Curious about what was horrible. I have the SIM2 and for the life of me, I cannot get it to fly the way other drivers do. Unless I hit it low heel, it balloons and spins like crazy.

[Skhacker]

No real difference for me. SIM2 MAX was maybe slightly more forgiving than OG SIM MAX due to a slightly larger face, but the difference was very minor. SIM2 does look better though imho. 

[rugbydave]

1 hour ago, trentyoung33 said:

Curious about what was horrible. I have the SIM2 and for the life of me, I cannot get it to fly the way other drivers do. Unless I hit it low heel, it balloons and spins like crazy.

I got roasted on here for my opinions but I'll tell it again.  I ordered a custom SIM2 to the exact specs of my original SIM.  All I did was swap the shafts and went to the course.  It just felt dead.  I'm a + handicap so I know when I nut one and when I don't.  The difference was 25-30 yards.  I got all p'd off and had it tested by a local fitter.  There was something wrong with the build and TM is sending me a new head in 4-6 weeks.

 

I did hit a couple SIM2's that my buddy's bought and will still not impressed.  Yardage was similar to my SIM but ball flight was all over.  Ballooning was a big issue.  I didn't hit on a trackman but from the ball flight, too much spin was a problem.  The SIM feels solid and the SIM2 felt like a marshmallow.  I wouldn't take my experience as gospel but most guys I play with prefer the original SIM...a few like the SIM2 better.  I didn't play with shafts or adjust the loft/lie.  I just didn't like the feel.

[trentyoung33]

40 minutes ago, rugbydave said:

I got roasted on here for my opinions but I'll tell it again.  I ordered a custom SIM2 to the exact specs of my original SIM.  All I did was swap the shafts and went to the course.  It just felt dead.  I'm a + handicap so I know when I nut one and when I don't.  The difference was 25-30 yards.  I got all p'd off and had it tested by a local fitter.  There was something wrong with the build and TM is sending me a new head in 4-6 weeks.

 

I did hit a couple SIM2's that my buddy's bought and will still not impressed.  Yardage was similar to my SIM but ball flight was all over.  Ballooning was a big issue.  I didn't hit on a trackman but from the ball flight, too much spin was a problem.  The SIM feels solid and the SIM2 felt like a marshmallow.  I wouldn't take my experience as gospel but most guys I play with prefer the original SIM...a few like the SIM2 better.  I didn't play with shafts or adjust the loft/lie.  I just didn't like the feel.

Interesting. Yeah I have had some really odd differences in performance on good strikes. Some balls come out relatively “flat” with a ton of ball speed and absolutely go, some shoot up to the moon and fall out of the sky. When I tested on GC Quad initially, numbers were really good, but it hasn’t even been close on the course. And like I said, for some weird reason, those low heel strikes are some of the really good balls.

[jah7838]

Taylormade replaced my SIM 10.5* with a SIM2 10.5*, and the SIM2 is more consistent for me in terms of forgiveness.  Distance seems to be pretty similar on the course for me.  I didn't have a reason to replace my SIM when it came to performance, but the speed slot on the bottom seemed to be coming apart, so TM replaced it.  SIM2 feels and sounds better to me...worth the upgrade?  I can't say 100% yes, but I'm not complaining about mine.  

[Hougz79]

4 hours ago, Cactus Jack said:

As with most things in life, it depends. 
 

The original SIM is low spin. For some folks it was too low spin to keep the ball on a stable path. Depending on your swing that might be fantastic or a disaster. However, for those that hit the SIM well, and can benefit from the directional weight, the SIM can be an absolute monster. 
 

I think the general consensus with the SIM 2 is it a bit more forgiving and produces a bit more spin. Distance wise drivers are essentially maxed out so without a proper fit, you’ll likely see limited gains on center hits. However, off center strikes might perform slightly better. Coming from an M3 you might experience higher gains than others, but again, primarily on off center strikes. 

I very much agree with this post.

 

I gamed and loved the OG SIM.  It is fade biased, and it's a low spin monster.  It gets a rep as not forgiving, but I found it to be acceptably forgiving.  Wild misses would be punished, but they would be punished by MOI monsters as well.  

 

For me the SIM2 is honestly not longer.  But it's straighter.  A fade is my miss, so if my game wasn't on point with the OG SIM, that fade bias would turn bad shots worse.  It is a bit more forgiving.  So for me the more neutral bias keeps my miss in check and the more forgiveness keeps less than perfect contact in check as well.  The SIM 2 so far is just a better compliment to my personal game.

 

If you live in the center of the clubface and fight a hook, the SIM is still a fantastic option; and depending on your ball-striking, maybe even a better option.  

[Phabs]

6 hours ago, Hougz79 said:

I very much agree with this post.

 

I gamed and loved the OG SIM.  It is fade biased, and it's a low spin monster.  It gets a rep as not forgiving, but I found it to be acceptably forgiving.  Wild misses would be punished, but they would be punished by MOI monsters as well.  

 

For me the SIM2 is honestly not longer.  But it's straighter.  A fade is my miss, so if my game wasn't on point with the OG SIM, that fade bias would turn bad shots worse.  It is a bit more forgiving.  So for me the more neutral bias keeps my miss in check and the more forgiveness keeps less than perfect contact in check as well.  The SIM 2 so far is just a better compliment to my personal game.

 

If you live in the center of the clubface and fight a hook, the SIM is still a fantastic option; and depending on your ball-striking, maybe even a better option.  

Awesome info... thanks. 
 

My miss is typically an over draw so who knows, it may work out.  I just hope I can turn it over right to left on a normal swing.  

[Valtiel]

8 hours ago, Hougz79 said:

I very much agree with this post.

 

I gamed and loved the OG SIM.  It is fade biased, and it's a low spin monster.  It gets a rep as not forgiving, but I found it to be acceptably forgiving.  Wild misses would be punished, but they would be punished by MOI monsters as well.  

 

For me the SIM2 is honestly not longer.  But it's straighter.  A fade is my miss, so if my game wasn't on point with the OG SIM, that fade bias would turn bad shots worse.  It is a bit more forgiving.  So for me the more neutral bias keeps my miss in check and the more forgiveness keeps less than perfect contact in check as well.  The SIM 2 so far is just a better compliment to my personal game.

 

If you live in the center of the clubface and fight a hook, the SIM is still a fantastic option; and depending on your ball-striking, maybe even a better option.  

 

2 hours ago, Phabs said:

Awesome info... thanks. 
 

My miss is typically an over draw so who knows, it may work out.  I just hope I can turn it over right to left on a normal swing.  

My opinions line up with @Hougz79 above. One thing to keep in mind is what "fade bias" actually means. When it comes to fade biased CG (which is normally what it refers to), the bias is based on strike. A fade biased CG = more weight shifted towards the toe. This moves the sweet spot towards the toe, thus imparting a very small amount of fade inducing gear effect on shots struck in the visual "center" and neutralizing some of the draw inducing gear effects on shots struck towards the toe. If you are someone that can miss towards the toe, this can help neutralize your flight. If you strike towards the heel, it will exacerbate your fade. It will however not do anything if your fade is caused by the face control or club path issue. Plus, the front weight in the SIM will render the driver fairly neutral if moved heel side. 

Edited April 20, 2021 by Valtiel

[Phabs]

11 hours ago, Valtiel said:

 

My opinions line up with @Hougz79 above. One thing to keep in mind is what "fade bias" actually means. When it comes to fade biased CG (which is normally what it refers to), the bias is based on strike. A fade biased CG = more weight shifted towards the toe. This moves the sweet spot towards the toe, thus imparting a very small amount of fade inducing gear effect on shots struck in the visual "center" and neutralizing some of the draw inducing gear effects on shots struck towards the toe. If you are someone that can miss towards the toe, this can help neutralize your flight. If you strike towards the heel, it will exacerbate your fade. It will however not do anything if your fade is caused by the face control or club path issue. Plus, the front weight in the SIM will render the driver fairly neutral if moved heel side. 

Thanks for the insight.  Good to know I can shift the weight on the front to the full draw setting and neutralize it. 

[Hougz79]

I played my OG SIM at 44.5" so to add some swing-weight back, I utilized the 13g sliding weight vs the standard 10g.  I had that 9/10th of the way to full draw setting and it really did neutralize the CG IMO.  

[phizzy30]

Worth it?  No.  I have both.  Only reason I changed over to the SIM 2 was because my launch was too high with the 9* SIM.  I went to a 8* SIM 2.  Launch is 10 to 12 degrees now and spin dropped 300 rpm on average.  Getting a little more overall distance. 

Edited April 20, 2021 by phizzy30

[Krt22]

Pretty cheap upgrade since I got my Sim2 on sale and I am liking it quiote a bit. I previously played the sim max in 9*, great when I was swinging well, too much draw bias when I wasn't. Went to the OG sim 10.5 cranked open/delofted, fixed the draw bias for sure but the shallower face was not good for my typical low on the face miss. The Sim2 in 10.5 cranked open is the perfect blend of the two. Slight fade bias, really nice launch/spin window, but def more forgiving (for me) with the deeper face. 

[bladehunter]

Reallly depends on you.  Sim 1 fade bias.  Sim 2. Neutral. Hookers will call it draw bias.  Plus the sim 2 swings like an m1.  Bigger if that makes sense. Sim plays like a slightly smaller head to me.  It swings easier. If that makes sense. 

[Phabs]

Coming back to this.   
 

Sim only survived with me for a month before I was sick of seeing my ball leak right.  Wasn’t any longer or more forgiving than my M3.   Sim looked prettier at address but outside of that it wasn’t the club for me. 
 

Sim2 is on the way and I’m crossing my fingers that it’ll be more workable both ways like my M3 with a touch more forgiveness.  
 

Dabbled with an M5 tour head and lost an average of 4 mph ball speed and about 10 yards carry versus the M3. Spent a good 2 hours on a range with a launch monitor, that was depressing. 
 

One day I’ll get smart and just stop trying to replace my M3… 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Phabs

[phizzy30]

11 minutes ago, Phabs said:

Coming back to this.   
 

Sim only survived with me for a month before I was sick of seeing my ball leak right.  Wasn’t any longer or more forgiving than my M3.   Sim looked prettier at address but outside of that it wasn’t the club for me. 
 

Sim2 is on the way and I’m crossing my fingers that it’ll be more workable both ways like my M3 with a hotter face. 
 

One day I’ll get smart and just stop trying to replace my M3… 

No you won't.  The golf ho inside you won't let you, haha.  I find the SIM 2 to be easier to work both ways and slightly more forgiving especially off the toe which is my typical miss.  I still have my OG SIM that's sitting in my closet and it's a bit more fade biased.  I'm coming from an M4 for reference. 

Edited October 11, 2021 by phizzy30

[evoviiiyou]

I’ve owned SIM Tour Issue, SIM Max Tour Issue, SIM Max D, SIM 2 Max and just ordered a new SIM 2 Max D to test. 
 

As stated above all are great with fitted shaft length and swing weight and all can have different bias’s as mentioned. Generally I agree with above posts on SIM and SIM Max being fade biased with SIM 2 Max more neutral. I also love the D product with it adjusted in the most open lowest loft on the sleeve to sit slightly open and then weighted for draw bias which gives me high low spin bombs with a little hot melt up by the face. 
 

If you have been fitted into a SIM product and happy with flight and spin numbers, you are not going to get a magical 10mph ball speed jump with SIM 2. I will say however you won’t loose ball speed and will gain a little more neutral ball flight with some added forgiveness. For me the SIM 2 products thus far, have been the most forgiving on the low center and mid slightly toe strikes with my set ups. All playing Accra TZ6 and Diamana ZF (my currrent gamer shaft) compared with to OG SIM. Also for what it’s worth I like the M darker carbon look of the 2 vs OG as well slightly better. 

Edited October 11, 2021 by evoviiiyou
Spelling

[craz-e]

I "upgraded" to the SIM 2 from the Original but I thought the SIM was a better driver for myself. I have now ended up with the TSi2 as I had lost a lot of confidence with my driving 

[philly2kuk]

I got an upgrade from the m3 to the m5 as my m3 cracked on the heel pad. The difference was a good ten yards and they have exactly the same shaft (took it out my m3 and installed it in my m5).

 

I’ve tried the sim and sim2 since and gained nothing - obviously the m5 just fits me very well.

[uglande]

I own both and have tested over and over. SIM beats SIM2 every time. My very best shots with both are about the same, but for some reason I am much more consistent with SIM. 

[Nixhex524]

I was playing the OG Sim Max 9* for a minute...  I liked it, but didn't love it.  It produced some long drives for sure but I felt control was an issue...  Traded a 410 LST head for a SIM2 10.5 on a whim and figured I wouldn't even use it.  Then I tried it and man, am I glad I did.  This thing has changed my game off the tee lately.... It may not be as long as the OG Sim, but I find it MUCH easier to control and even my misses are not that far off, still leaving me a decent second shot.  The 2 looks way better, and feels more forgiving all over the face to me.  Very happy with the Sim2.

[byoshio82]

On 4/18/2021 at 10:07 AM, Phabs said:

Coming from an M3 that I loved and played for years I’ve decided it’s probably time to upgrade.   Just looking for peoples thoughts who’ve owned both.  My only concern with the original sim is the fade bias that seems to exist for some with that head.  I play a draw 90% of my tee shots.  

SIM2 was the only driver since the M3 to kick out the M3 I played since release. Definitely worth a shot. I like the SIM2 better. SIM just wasn’t enough of an upgrade for me vs my M3. 

[doc52]

Just wait for the Sim3