Free drop in area with different grass condition than where ball landed - Should that be changed?

[jordan2240]

On a number of occasions, I've seen a pro get a free drop out of deep rough onto the putting green fringe.  If memory serves correctly, this can happen if the pro has to stand on a sprinkler head to hit the shot.  I believe it also is allowed when a ball is embedded under certain circumstances.  I think this rule should be changed to require that the drop occur in an area with the same conditions as where the ball landed, unless of course we're talking about ground under repair or cart paths.  Anyone else find it unfair to be able to drop out of deep rough into a less-punishing area?

[nsxguy]

3 minutes ago, jordan2240 said:

On a number of occasions, I've seen a pro get a free drop out of deep rough onto the putting green fringe.  If memory serves correctly, this can happen if the pro has to stand on a sprinkler head to hit the shot.  I believe it also is allowed when a ball is embedded under certain circumstances.  I think this rule should be changed to require that the drop occur in an area with the same conditions as where the ball landed, unless of course we're talking about ground under repair or cart paths.  Anyone else find it unfair to be able to drop out of deep rough into a less-punishing area?

 

That would require a rule change - or an exception.

 

Right now the "rough" (whatever that is ) and the fringe are BOTH part of the "General area" and, as such there is no distinction between them for this particular situation.

 

As for "fair", it ain't UNfair if everybody is treated the same,,,,,,, 👍

[rogolf]

If the Rules permit it, and playing by the Rues is expected, why do you consider it unfair?  The Rules do restrict in which area of the course you can drop a ball, but the general area is a large area.

[sui generis]

Many (most) want fewer Rules and restrictions, not more. 🙄

[Mr. Bean]

This is one of those 'sometimes you win, sometimes you lose' -things and are part of the game. It is impossible to create a set of rules that treats every individual in every situation the exactly same way.

[rogolf]

22 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

This is one of those 'sometimes you win, sometimes you lose' -things and are part of the game. It is impossible to create a set of rules that treats every individual in every situation the exactly same way.

I think that is the objective of the Rules and they do a good job of that, but outcomes from situations can be different and are obviously based on the specifics of the situation.

[Mr. Bean]

2 minutes ago, rogolf said:

I think that is the objective of the Rules and they do a good job of that, but outcomes from situations can be different and are obviously based on the specifics of the situation.

 

That is what I was trying to express. Sometimes your ball is in a rough more dense and sometimes less dense. Seldom exactly the same.

[Shipwreck]

I got zero problem with what the pros do.  Sometimes the rules can help you. Sometimes they can hurt. That’s what’s great about golf. 
 

Now if we want to be on the subject of different grass conditions, I personally

think that any barren part of the course where grass should obviously be should automatically be considered GUR. 

[rogolf]

21 minutes ago, Shipwreck said:

I got zero problem with what the pros do.  Sometimes the rules can help you. Sometimes they can hurt. That’s what’s great about golf. 
 

Now if we want to be on the subject of different grass conditions, I personally

think that any barren part of the course where grass should obviously be should automatically be considered GUR. 

Okay, I'll start the opposing argument.  Does that include penalty areas, bunkers, general area, ony closely-mown?  It's up to the Committee in charge to define GUR, not the Rules nor the players.  Bare dirt or dead grass is not GUR unless so defined by the Committee.  Imo, your issue would be with the Committee, not the Rules.

A reminder that the "parts of the course" are, by definition, the teeing area, the general area, bunkers, penalty areas and putting greens.

Edited April 19, 2021 by rogolf

[Shipwreck]

4 minutes ago, rogolf said:

Okay, I'll start the opposing argument.  Does that include penalty areas, bunkers, general area, ony closely-mown?  It's up to the Committee in charge to define GUR, not the Rules nor the players.  Bare dirt or dead grass is not GUR unless so defined by the Committee.  Imo, your issue would be with the Committee, not the Rules.

understandable. I should have been more thorough in my initial explanation. I am mainly talking about the fairways and rough, where there is clear damage due to XYZ and there being barren land in the areas where there should be obvious grass. Unfortunately this seems to apply more to lower end courses or muni courses where GUR is hardly ever (if ever) actually marked on the course. 

[Mr. Bean]

6 minutes ago, Shipwreck said:

understandable. I should have been more thorough in my initial explanation. I am mainly talking about the fairways and rough, where there is clear damage due to XYZ and there being barren land in the areas where there should be obvious grass. Unfortunately this seems to apply more to lower end courses or muni courses where GUR is hardly ever (if ever) actually marked on the course. 

 

Rough is supposed to be a bit penal and that is why you may find many kinds of small or even bigger problems there. But from my personal perspective I would rather have my ball lying on a bare part of the rough than inside the sticky grass...

[jordan2240]

The reason I feel the rule is unfair is that two players can both hit the ball in the deeper rough behind the green, within a foot of one another, and one may have to take his stance on a sprinkler head while the other may not, and therefore one may be able to take his ball out of the rough and drop it on the fringe, while the other must play his as it lies.  I don't think one should be rewarded for hitting his closer to the sprinkler head.

[rogolf]

2 minutes ago, jordan2240 said:

The reason I feel the rule is unfair is that two players can both hit the ball in the deeper rough behind the green, within a foot of one another, and one may have to take his stance on a sprinkler head while the other may not, and therefore one may be able to take his ball out of the rough and drop it on the fringe, while the other must play his as it lies.  I don't think one should be rewarded for hitting his closer to the sprinkler head.

The Rules are the Rules.  Sometimes there use may be of benefit to the player and sometimes not.  But they are the same for every player.  Sometimes they require the player to "play hard".  And, there is always unplayable if the player doesn't like the lie.

[davep043]

8 hours ago, jordan2240 said:

The reason I feel the rule is unfair is that two players can both hit the ball in the deeper rough behind the green, within a foot of one another, and one may have to take his stance on a sprinkler head while the other may not, and therefore one may be able to take his ball out of the rough and drop it on the fringe, while the other must play his as it lies.  I don't think one should be rewarded for hitting his closer to the sprinkler head.

Similarly, one of those balls can settle to the bottom of the very long grass, and the nearby one could have a perfect lie perched up.  There are no guarantees in golf that nearly identical shots will result in nearly identical outcomes.

[Newby]

8 hours ago, jordan2240 said:

The reason I feel the rule is unfair is that two players can both hit the ball in the deeper rough behind the green, within a foot of one another, and one may have to take his stance on a sprinkler head while the other may not, and therefore one may be able to take his ball out of the rough and drop it on the fringe, while the other must play his as it lies.  I don't think one should be rewarded for hitting his closer to the sprinkler head.

So I'm playing with 3 others. They all land on a small bare patch in the middle of the fairway. I land 2' way on a pristine patch of grass. Should I move my ball or should they all move theirs? Which is fair?

[jordan2240]

9 minutes ago, Newby said:

So I'm playing with 3 others. They all land on a small bare patch in the middle of the fairway. I land 2' way on a pristine patch of grass. Should I move my ball or should they all move theirs? Which is fair?

I'm not suggesting you remove all variables.  The same issue you suggest can occur with divots, but what you are referring to is the natural condition of the fairway.  I'm suggesting that if you hit the ball in an area the is intended to be penal, you should have to hit it out of that area.

[jlbos83]

I think it is a bad idea.  The biggest problem is that you are trying to define areas that really don't have a definition.  Perhaps on most of the courses the pros are playing on you can clearly say what's fairway, fringe, first cut, second cut, etc.  But plenty of time in the real world, the differences are, shall we say, much less defined.  I can be in the "rough" on an almost bare patch, right next to a nice juicy patch.  Neither are on the fairway, but they are certainly not the same.  If I drop, do I have to find a place "like" the one I'm on?  Adding a level of subjectivity to the rule would not be helpful.

[limegreengent]

 

Jordan

 

When you played the game as long as many of us you will learn to appreciate ,  love and welcome the challenge of

" Rub of the Green'

and accept it as a truelly brilliant part of the sport.

 

Until then I don't think you are ready to challenge  " Links' golf.

🤗🤗🤗

[Pepperturbo]

The OP has a point, but it's NOT realistic given how other ROG affects each other.  Ball lands in an ugly lie area, where conditions have the golfer standing on a sprinkler head; he gets a free drop - club lengths put him no closer to the hole, on the nicely groomed apron, hot diggity. 

 

Then there's the infamous "LUCK of the draw."  One ROG benefits YOU, then next it bites your azzz, hard or your opponents.  In other words given time, everyone tastes sh** happens.

[jordan2240]

26 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

One ROG benefits YOU, then next it bites your azzz

No argument on that one.

[Mr. Bean]

Jordan, this is golf, not pool or snooker. Sometimes you get a good break and sometimes a bad break due to the terrain. Accept it and move on. And stop whining, please.

[jordan2240]

9 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

And stop whining, please.

Just discussing the merits of a rule that allows one to escape a penal area on a technicality.  Hardly what I'd consider 'whining', but see it as you will.  Wonder why you felt the need to add that last sentence though.  Oh, I forgot, it's the internet.

[Mr. Bean]

11 hours ago, jordan2240 said:

Just discussing the merits of a rule that allows one to escape a penal area on a technicality.  Hardly what I'd consider 'whining', but see it as you will.  Wonder why you felt the need to add that last sentence though.  Oh, I forgot, it's the internet.

 

I added it to highlight the difference between solid arguing and (repeated) whining. The first is the basis of a good discussion, the latter could not be farther from that. I also added 'please' to be polite.

[jordan2240]

1 hour ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

I added it to highlight the difference between solid arguing and (repeated) whining. The first is the basis of a good discussion, the latter could not be farther from that. I also added 'please' to be polite.

So you consider responding to other people's responses to be 'repeated whining' then?  Wonder what you think a discussion might be.