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What are the most relevant statistics to track for a 20 handicapper?


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On 4/19/2021 at 2:45 PM, SNIPERBBB said:

At that level, I'd probably be tracking wasted shots.  I'll explain what I mean.

 

There are 4 general phases on each hole, except par threes.

 

Tee

Approach (Tee on par threes)

Chipping

Putting

 

You can break approach out to account for laying up on par 5s or long par 4s with forced carries of bunkers or penalty areas to the green. Can also break out purring for putting if you're leaving yourself 3+ foot second putts a lot.

 

A wasted shot, including penalties, are shots that didn't advance you to the next phase of the game. Say if you're 190 out and you chunk/top your approach and you have more than 40yards left to the green, it's a wasted shot as you're still in the approach phase.

 

The more you can get that wasted shot number down to 0, your scores will reflect it.

 

 

 

I absolutely agree with this.

 

yoy can make stats for shots lost and gained based on your subjektive asessment. If you hit one ob off the tee it is two strokes lost. If you chip in from 10-20 yards it is on stroke gained, hole a 10 ft putt is a half stroke gained etc. All compared to what you feel you have skills to accomplish. Simply find out where you loose strokes compared to your personal par if you play flawless golf within your limits.

 

 

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17 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

And this bit here explains how to analyze the four stats (shots from 50 in, total putts, SG-short game and SG-putting).

 

You can clearly see that if you averaged 3 strokes from 50 and in, but only had one more putt than "expected", i.e. 2 putts per hole, that you missed a lot of greens on approach. Which of course is normal for high-caps like us.

 

But if you're regularly 50 and in, you should be having more one-putts. If your SG-putting is only -2.53, I'm assuming that means proximity to hole wasn't that bad while scrambling, but SG-putting suggests that you were two-putting more often than you should with makeable first putt opportunities. 

 

Does that track with how you remember the round? 

I didnt miss any greens pitching in from 50 yards. I think the shots to finish includes the pitch itself.

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On 4/20/2021 at 3:07 AM, NotThatGuyorAmI? said:

No stats.  Spend your brain’s energy on learning what a good swing is, how the club head approaches and interacts with the ball.  Then learn how to let that happen.

I completely agree....learn to lever every club in the bag and then proceed to learning how to aim it. 

 

On 4/20/2021 at 6:10 AM, Wormkiller said:

So how do you monitor improvement from something so subjective? 

Impact is not subjective though...learning to lever the ball is a foundational fundamental of golf and must be learned first.  You can't even begin to calculate a golf shot until you can reasonably count on solid impact.  Once you trust in hitting it solid, then aiming it is easy and then all of they other stats can begin to matter.  Until impact can be trusted you can rest assured that you are missing most fairways and greens and not getting up and down and such so the stats don't really matter at that point! 

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6 hours ago, Wormkiller said:

I didnt miss any greens pitching in from 50 yards. I think the shots to finish includes the pitch itself.

 

Sorry, by "approach" I meant iron shots from >50 yards, i.e. that are not considered short game or pitching.

 

I.e. the fact that you were pitching at all was because a green had been missed, not saying you were missing greens while pitching. Make sense?

 

So if you averaged 3 strokes from 50 and in, but had 19 putts, and didn't miss any greens pitching, it can mean one of two things:

  1. Your pitches are getting onto the green, but not reasonably close enough to the hole to give yourself one-putt opportunities to get up and down in 2.
  2. Your pitches are getting onto the green with good proximity, but you're not converting putts that you SHOULD be one-putting.

Given that shotscope says your SG-putting was -2.53, it would suggest you were putting well, which means that your pitches from 50 and in weren't getting close enough to really give you those one-putt opportunities.

 

Again, this is what I am assuming via the data provided. It could very well be wrong, which is why I'm asking if it correlates to your memories of the round.

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54 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Sorry, by "approach" I meant iron shots from >50 yards, i.e. that are not considered short game or pitching.

 

I.e. the fact that you were pitching at all was because a green had been missed, not saying you were missing greens while pitching. Make sense?

 

So if you averaged 3 strokes from 50 and in, but had 19 putts, and didn't miss any greens pitching, it can mean one of two things:

  1. Your pitches are getting onto the green, but not reasonably close enough to the hole to give yourself one-putt opportunities to get up and down in 2.
  2. Your pitches are getting onto the green with good proximity, but you're not converting putts that you SHOULD be one-putting.

Given that shotscope says your SG-putting was -2.53, it would suggest you were putting well, which means that your pitches from 50 and in weren't getting close enough to really give you those one-putt opportunities.

 

Again, this is what I am assuming via the data provided. It could very well be wrong, which is why I'm asking if it correlates to your memories of the round.

Sorry, I misread your previous post. Because I was only using my 5 wood off the tee, 4 of the 7 par 4/5 holes I wasn't even going for the green in regulation. Instead I was laying up to play a pitch into the green, aiming for bogey. Distances of these pitches were 22m (bunker shot), 45m, 54m and 41m. Respective distances from the flag on the green after each pitch were 6m, 3m, 4m and 9m. So yeh I agree with you, the fact that I averaged so far from the hole for most of these pretty simple pitches and one bunker shot limited me from scoring better. As did missing the shorter putts.

 

And if I could just gain another even just another 25m off the tee I think that will really help, so that my second shots are in my comfort zone to go for the green. At the moment that comfort zone at my home course is only around 150m out - the risk is too high considering my skill level versus the trouble around the greens (sandy rough at the back of raised greens, trees). I'm hoping I can get this mini driver working well - it will give me a look at to going for the green on at least 4 more holes.

Edited by Wormkiller
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On 4/21/2021 at 11:55 PM, Wormkiller said:

Shotscope tracks shots to finish from within 50 yards.

 

My personal average is 2.96. Not sure where that stands exactly, but my strokes gained is best for my short game (-3.88).

 

Where do you see shots to finish by distance? I only see it by club selection.

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7 hours ago, Miker20890 said:

 

Where do you see shots to finish by distance? I only see it by club selection.

Shots to finish 50 yards or less can be found under shortgame on the app.

 

if you log into your shotscope dashboard on a pc then it gives you more options to move the distance using a slider to see how successful you are at hitting greens and shots to finish from specific distances

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Plenty of good answers here... some various thoughts:

 

1. What do you WANT to improve on? Is there one aspect of the game that interests you or frustrates you? I'd pick one thing right now and hone in on it... most skills carry over to other parts of the game, but if you can focus and improve on one area, it will lower your scores and hopefully not overwhelm.

2. Figure out how to get driver into play. That's a huge opportunity for improvement. If you can consistently put your tee shot into play as far as possible down the course, it lowers opportunities for mistakes. 

3. Putting has always been a mixed bag for me... It's one of the few places you can be comparable to a professional, but I think it's hard to practice and improve at putting. I think the key is speed control, which requires good tempo. Recently, all my putting drills have been built around consistency in distance... but putting practice has to be more than just rolling putts on the practice green.

4. Make sure you are doing more than just block practice. (hitting the same club 50 times)... Random practice is significantly better, and make sure you are focused on every swing. Switch between clubs and targets on every shot and try to have some pressure on the shots... hit 10 solid shots while switching between clubs each shot... things like that. 

 

As for what you measure, I'd take a step back and look at where your high scores are coming from. Track your doubles and worse, and figure out where all you threw away strokes. The key to lower scores is making less big numbers. Figure out if you are consistently losing strokes in the same situations, and then grind on those shots.

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I used to track “lost shots to par” (nowadays equivalent to strokes gained), but realized after several rounds that there was no real pattern I could develop an improvement plan around. I had to work on every aspect of my game to get better 🤬

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13 hours ago, Myherobobhope said:

Plenty of good answers here... some various thoughts:

 

1. What do you WANT to improve on? Is there one aspect of the game that interests you or frustrates you? I'd pick one thing right now and hone in on it... most skills carry over to other parts of the game, but if you can focus and improve on one area, it will lower your scores and hopefully not overwhelm.

2. Figure out how to get driver into play. That's a huge opportunity for improvement. If you can consistently put your tee shot into play as far as possible down the course, it lowers opportunities for mistakes. 

3. Putting has always been a mixed bag for me... It's one of the few places you can be comparable to a professional, but I think it's hard to practice and improve at putting. I think the key is speed control, which requires good tempo. Recently, all my putting drills have been built around consistency in distance... but putting practice has to be more than just rolling putts on the practice green.

4. Make sure you are doing more than just block practice. (hitting the same club 50 times)... Random practice is significantly better, and make sure you are focused on every swing. Switch between clubs and targets on every shot and try to have some pressure on the shots... hit 10 solid shots while switching between clubs each shot... things like that. 

 

As for what you measure, I'd take a step back and look at where your high scores are coming from. Track your doubles and worse, and figure out where all you threw away strokes. The key to lower scores is making less big numbers. Figure out if you are consistently losing strokes in the same situations, and then grind on those shots.

The number one thing I want to improve on is my fairway success off the tee. Or rather, balls in play off the tee. I want to eliminate the big miss resulting in a penalty stroke, lost ball, unplayable or a second shot that I cant get within 100 yards of the green (par 4). My aim is to have this at 60% with no big misses.

 

Hitting 4 iron and 5 Wood off the tee has got me to this 60% mark. But its not getting me far enough up the fairway to give me a reasonable look at any greens in regulation. I need to get it up further. I have reasonable days playing driver, and horrible days, but even on the better days I will hit at least a couple of big misses with this club. A put using this club as solely responsible for my blow up rounds, and Im glad Ive learned how to fall back on other clubs off the tee, whereas a month or so ago it was the only club Id pull out. Im hoping the mini driver fills this void. Ill take 220m with it if it can give me this 60%.  If I get my confidence up with this club, then Ill look at perhaps getting properly fitted for a driver and more lessons on it. Ive already invested money on lessons with the driver without gaining true long term consistency with it.

Edited by Wormkiller
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52 minutes ago, Wormkiller said:

itting 4 iron and 5 Wood off the tee has got me to this 60% mark. But its not getting me far enough up the fairway to give me a reasonable look at any greens in regulation. I need to get it up further. I have reasonable days playing driver, and horrible days, but even on the better days I will hit at least a couple of big misses with this club. A put using this club as solely responsible for my blow up rounds, and Im glad Ive learned how to fall back on other clubs off the tee, whereas a month or so ago it was the only club Id pull out. Im hoping the mini driver fills this void. Ill take 220m with it if it can give me this 60%.  If I get my confidence up with this club, then Ill look at perhaps getting properly fitted for a driver and more lessons on it. Ive already invested money on lessons with the driver without gaining true long term consistency with it.

Sounds like you know what needs to be done and have a plan... I’ll say that getting confident with driver is a huge step to getting good at golf. It’s up to you when you do it and parts of this are farther away... but getting off the tee box is important.

 

I think a mini driver is a decent plan... just keep building your confidence and moving the ball as far as you can down the course!

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Went to the range to have a go at the mini driver. Struggled with it unfortunately. Had the same problems as with my driver - hooks and pushes. Dont know why but my Cobra FMax 5 wood doesnt show these shot tendencies up as bad. I have a 3 Wood at home that Im going to try and see how that works.

 

I think Ill post a video of my swing for some feedback. And its definitely time for a lesson.

 

Played 7 holes afterwards finishing at 5 over. Parred the first using 5 wood off the tee and GIR with my 4 iron. My two shots with the mini driver both ended up in fairway bunkers (left and right) and subsequent bogeys. 5 Wood was dead straight again.

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On 4/25/2021 at 10:28 PM, Wormkiller said:

Shots to finish 50 yards or less can be found under shortgame on the app.

 

if you log into your shotscope dashboard on a pc then it gives you more options to move the distance using a slider to see how successful you are at hitting greens and shots to finish from specific distances


unless I’m just completely missing it but I only see the shots to finish by club on the dashboard.  
 

I have attached the pictures from the dashboard if you could point me in the direction. 
 

32EFB6DD-59E4-49EA-B888-C36FD10D8CC6.jpeg.ea2bdcf16d3dcea38bc910a1c68d0f80.jpeg

5AC66099-AF3B-4737-B485-E12238369633.jpeg.40a0563429c9926ee57b0ac9006ffc40.jpeg

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15 hours ago, Miker20890 said:


unless I’m just completely missing it but I only see the shots to finish by club on the dashboard.  
 

I have attached the pictures from the dashboard if you could point me in the direction. 
 

32EFB6DD-59E4-49EA-B888-C36FD10D8CC6.jpeg.ea2bdcf16d3dcea38bc910a1c68d0f80.jpeg

5AC66099-AF3B-4737-B485-E12238369633.jpeg.40a0563429c9926ee57b0ac9006ffc40.jpeg

Just above the circle graphic should be a slider that you can move to specific distances. The dotted line in the circle represents average proximity to the hole from the distance interval you specify with the slider. The column graph for shots to finish changes with the interval specified. Hover your mouse exactly on the x-axis and it will give you the average for shots to finish in a pop-up.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

shortgame.PNG

Edited by Wormkiller
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On 4/27/2021 at 10:48 PM, Wormkiller said:

Went to the range to have a go at the mini driver. Struggled with it unfortunately. Had the same problems as with my driver - hooks and pushes. Dont know why but my Cobra FMax 5 wood doesnt show these shot tendencies up as bad. I have a 3 Wood at home that Im going to try and see how that works.

 

I think Ill post a video of my swing for some feedback. And its definitely time for a lesson.

 

Played 7 holes afterwards finishing at 5 over. Parred the first using 5 wood off the tee and GIR with my 4 iron. My two shots with the mini driver both ended up in fairway bunkers (left and right) and subsequent bogeys. 5 Wood was dead straight again.

 

I think the driver (or mini driver) is the one club in the bag you will always have to adjust your swing for. Whereas every other club wants a slight downward strike, you want to hit up on the driver or mini driver.

 

When you hit down on a club with so little loft you're going to add a lot of spin which makes the direction a crap shoot. My guess would be that you're hitting down on the five wood which works really well, and also hitting down on the mini driver which does not. 

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10 hours ago, Wormkiller said:

Just above the circle graphic should be a slider that you can move to specific distances. The dotted line in the circle represents average proximity to the hole from the distance interval you specify with the slider. The column graph for shots to finish changes with the interval specified. Hover your mouse exactly on the x-axis and it will give you the average for shots to finish in a pop-up.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

shortgame.PNG

Wow thanks for showing me that. Never would have thought to hover over the axis like that.

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I think it's best to imagine stats as a device that allows you to see beyond your eyeballs. That said, I'd wager a 20-index can probably use their eyes to identify problem areas in their game. 

 

What's more, without an ability to control where the ball ends up, it's hard to make suggestions like "miss in the right place" or "avoid penalty areas." 

 

Learn to swing better, or at least understand how to manage your own swing. Get with an instructor if you can afford it. Your priority should be on controlling the ball better. As you do that, scoring will become much easier. 

 

I know this isn't necessarily the most helpful advice, but I think it's realistic. 

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I’m not familiar with shot scope, but I just started tracking my strokes gained vs a 5 handicap, as this is my next goal.  The data has surprised me as to what my weaknesses are.  I would suggest you do something similar, use the stats and compare to your next handicap goal then figure out where you need to get better.

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2 hours ago, blues72 said:

I’m not familiar with shot scope, but I just started tracking my strokes gained vs a 5 handicap, as this is my next goal.  The data has surprised me as to what my weaknesses are.  I would suggest you do something similar, use the stats and compare to your next handicap goal then figure out where you need to get better.

Where did you get the info for strokes gained versus a specific handicap across the areas of strokes gained tee shots, approach shots, short game and putting?  Cant find much out there. Or are you assuming a total of 5 shots lost evenly across all areas?

 

Cheers.

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3 hours ago, Wormkiller said:

Where did you get the info for strokes gained versus a specific handicap across the areas of strokes gained tee shots, approach shots, short game and putting?  Cant find much out there. Or are you assuming a total of 5 shots lost evenly across all areas?

 

Cheers.

I started using an app called V1 Game about a month ago.  It does take some data entry but works fairly well.  I try to enter my data as I go from one shot to the next and then enter my data for the green as I approach the next tee box.  Cost for the basic version is a little steep at $7 a month but I’ve got strokes gained and a bunch of other metrics which can help me game plan during a round as well.  There may be better options but this one uses gps and makes assumptions about shot locations, plus it shows you where you went on the course which can jog your memory if you miss entering data for a shot during the round.

 

 

ED4191ED-DA1D-4304-8807-341444E112CC.jpeg

Edited by blues72
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17 hours ago, blues72 said:

I started using an app called V1 Game about a month ago.  It does take some data entry but works fairly well.  I try to enter my data as I go from one shot to the next and then enter my data for the green as I approach the next tee box.  Cost for the basic version is a little steep at $7 a month but I’ve got strokes gained and a bunch of other metrics which can help me game plan during a round as well.  There may be better options but this one uses gps and makes assumptions about shot locations, plus it shows you where you went on the course which can jog your memory if you miss entering data for a shot during the round.

 

 

ED4191ED-DA1D-4304-8807-341444E112CC.jpeg

Cool, so that reference against a 5 handicap is for all the users  of the app playing at that handicap?

 

Shot scope tracks strokes gained by I cant reference mine against other handicaps.

 

Would you mind showing me the reference for a 20 handicap?

 

Thanks!

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9 hours ago, Wormkiller said:

Cool, so that reference against a 5 handicap is for all the users  of the app playing at that handicap?

 

Shot scope tracks strokes gained by I cant reference mine against other handicaps.

 

Would you mind showing me the reference for a 20 handicap?

 

Thanks!

Here’s my strokes gained relative to a 20.

 

 

EDCFBE38-D7BC-4B28-A312-0C9DE681130F.jpeg

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      Jacob Bridgeman's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Bud Cauley's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Ryo Hisatsune's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Chris Kirk - new black Callaway Apex CB irons and a few Odyssey putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alejandro Tosti's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
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      • 2 replies
    • 2024 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #3
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #4
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Rory McIlroy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Sepp Straka - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Patrick Rodgers - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Brendon Todd - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Denny McCarthy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Corey Conners - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Chase Johnson - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tommy Fleetwood - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Matt Fitzpatrick - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Si Woo Kim - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Viktor Hovland - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Wyndham Clark - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Cam Davis - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Nick Taylor - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Ben Baller WITB update (New putter, driver, hybrid and shafts) – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Vortex Golf rangefinder - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Fujikura Ventus shaft - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods & TaylorMade "Sun Day Red" apparel launch event, product photos – 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods Sun Day Red golf shoes - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Aretera shafts - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Toulon putters - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods' new white "Sun Day Red" golf shoe prototypes – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      • 22 replies

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