On course emotions for Juniors (< 10 year old)

[mojomover]

Hi everyone- I am guessing this topic has been discussed a fair bit but I wanted to get more ideas/feedback on junior (8-9 yr old golfers) emotions. For context, my son falls into that bucket, started playing in tournaments a year ago and has done well, scores like typical kids in this age, even par to bad rounds in the low 40's. He really enjoys golf, would not mind spending everyday playing, practicing. The typical tournament though, goes like this- on the drive over, super excited, you can sense it the day of the tournament and warm up, likely within the first 3 holes he would hit a bad shot and perhaps a bogey or a double and starts to get upset and cry, a birdie later and gets excited. This emotional behavior does not usually impact the rest of the round but it is a bit tough to see him have these visible emotional roller coasters. I am of the parents should maintain emotional flatline philosophy, so try to not show disappointment or excitement. On the ride back, he grumbles a bit but typically gets over it. So the question is, how do you coach kids of this age to be more emotionally "Stable" or is it just part of learning/growing? Anything I can do to help?

[BloctonGolf11]

It is so tough but you have to work with them to find a way to adequately and effectively handle the emotions. My son does the opposite, he bottles everything in until he can't even make 3 foot putts. At that point I have to blow up to get him to release all the emotions and then he is great the rest of the round and I look like a crazy person. He is doing better but it is still a battle. Finding the middle ground for kids is tough. You don't want them over doing it with every wave of a golf round but the robotic route is also typically NOT healthy. Teach him how to handle and release the emotions effectively and constantly work on it. 

[heavy_hitter]

If anyone has the ideal answer they could sell it.  Every kid is different in how they react emotionally to the round.  I don't think there is a "One Size Fits All Answer."

 

Some will grow out of it and others will need help.  There are kids that need a mental coach and I know of kids that also have been hypnotized.  I have a great relationship with my kid off the course, on the course I can tell him the sky is blue and he won't believe me.  

 

He is probably reading this and that is OK.  He knows I am all in.

Edited April 19, 2021 by heavy_hitter

[Abh159]

16 minutes ago, mojomover said:

This emotional behavior does not usually impact the rest of the round 

 

 

If this is true then you've already won the war. Letting a bad shot or bad hole blow up the whole round is something most kids will struggle with. 

 

I imagine he will grow out of the crying after bad shots thing before too long. You don't really see too many 12+ year olds crying on the course so it seems like it's something that will work itself out as he matures. 

Edited April 19, 2021 by Abh159

[BloctonGolf11]

1 minute ago, heavy_hitter said:

If anyone has the ideal answer they could sell it.  Every kid is different in how they react emotionally to the round.  I don't think there is a "One Size Fits All Answer."

 

Some will grow out of it and others will need help.  There are kids that need a mental coach and I know of kids that also have been hypnotized.  I have a great relationship with my kid off the course, On the course I can tell him the sky is blue and he won't believe me.  It doesn't mean something is wrong with them if they need outside help.  Everyone is different.  

 

He is probably reading this and that is OK.  He knows I am all in.

This right here from ole heavy. Outside observer might have thought my son and I had a bad relationship between holes 6 and 7 Saturday when I was talking to him in a very direct and harsh way and he started bawling. What they didn't see was 5 minutes later him hugging me and thanking me for getting to release the frustration he had bottled up for 5 holes prior. Every kid and every person is different. Some kids need to be supported with compliments and everything is alright. Some kids need a swift kick in the butt to get in gear. Most kids it is something in between. End of the day all that matters is getting them to a point where they can handle their emotions effectively and that is not an easy road for A LOT of kids. Another kid in our group was crying over a double bogey apologizing to his mom. The other kid was stomping up and down over a missed putt. My son, the robot, letting everything stay inside him looked to be the "most disciplined" but it wasn't healthy either. The mom of the double bogey crier said she wished her son handled it like mine and I explained to her it isn't always best to keep everything inside. It is tough. 

[mgoblue83]

Not one mention of "having fun" in the entire thread? Sounds miserable.

 

If they aren't having fun at 8-9 (any age?) years old find a different activity. Yes, there is pressure during tournaments but enjoying the challenge of the next shot is the only thing that should matter. 

[mojomover]

1 hour ago, BloctonGolf11 said:

It is so tough but you have to work with them to find a way to adequately and effectively handle the emotions. My son does the opposite, he bottles everything in until he can't even make 3 foot putts. At that point I have to blow up to get him to release all the emotions and then he is great the rest of the round and I look like a crazy person. He is doing better but it is still a battle. Finding the middle ground for kids is tough. You don't want them over doing it with every wave of a golf round but the robotic route is also typically NOT healthy. Teach him how to handle and release the emotions effectively and constantly work on it. 

 

It was a rough day yesterday where he missed a couple of really short putts and all of a sudden developed a duck hook, I likely would have broken a club if I was playing 😄 I think was hoping to get some general strategies that folks have developed to handle and release emotions

[mojomover]

18 minutes ago, mgoblue83 said:

Not one mention of "having fun" in the entire thread? Sounds miserable.

 

If they aren't having fun at 8-9 (any age?) years old find a different activity. Yes, there is pressure during tournaments but enjoying the challenge of the next shot is the only thing that should matter. 

 

I am curious- how do you develop that fun, foster it as a parent or is it just a personality thing?

[mojomover]

1 hour ago, Abh159 said:

 

 

If this is true then you've already won the war. Letting a bad shot or bad hole blow up the whole round is something most kids will struggle with. 

 

I imagine he will grow out of the crying after bad shots thing before too long. You don't really see too many 12+ year olds crying on the course so it seems like it's something that will work itself out as he matures. 

 I sure hope so 🙂 Using a poker terminology, he does not go on Tilt, is usually composed enough to hit his next shot. One example from yesterdays round. Duck hooks a drive into the left rough. Starts crying. Go to the ball, find that he has opening between 2 trees, hits his PW perfectly avoiding those trees and about 15ft away. seems composed. 3 putts from 15ft, including a lipout and starts crying again 🙂 I think what I want to find is a way to make it more enjoyable/fun for him. 

[tiger1873]

49 minutes ago, mgoblue83 said:

Not one mention of "having fun" in the entire thread? Sounds miserable.

 

If they aren't having fun at 8-9 (any age?) years old find a different activity. Yes, there is pressure during tournaments but enjoying the challenge of the next shot is the only thing that should matter. 

 

 

I agree any kid needs to have fun first. If not why do it.  The ones who love it usually are all over the place because they  care.  The answer is let them fail and pick them up and show them why they failed. They will get over it. It okay if they cry after a round that is how they learn how to control thier emotions.

 

Any kid is going to have emotions if they are normal.  I've seen way to much abuse of kids over the years.

 

 

You have to sometimes have be a parent so it's fine line.  You can tell the difference .the parents who are too intense will get mad over every birdie the kid misses and just gets mad.  It okay they will get better this is just the begining.

Edited April 19, 2021 by tiger1873

[heavy_hitter]

On 4/19/2021 at 2:49 PM, mgoblue83 said:

Not one mention of "having fun" in the entire thread? Sounds miserable.

 

If they aren't having fun at 8-9 (any age?) years old find a different activity. Yes, there is pressure during tournaments but enjoying the challenge of the next shot is the only thing that should matter. 

 

SMDH!!

 

Every thread has to mention fun?  I didn't know Fun was what this thread was about.  Sometimes it isn't fun when a kid acts like an a** or has emotional battles on the course. This was a legit question about tournament golf that a lot of parents are concerned about.  Just got off the phone with two separate parents where they were concerned about the same issue.

Edited April 21, 2021 by heavy_hitter

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

29 minutes ago, mojomover said:

 

I am curious- how do you develop that fun, foster it as a parent or is it just a personality thing?

It's both.  As I have been mentioned before you need to figure out who is your kid.

 

My son is Tom Kite.  Daugher is Ben Creshaw.  

 

Son is fine being on the range for 8 hours.  Daughter is fine pulling up to the first tee and piping one down the fairway.

 

9-10 yr is a long time to play one sport if they want to play in college.  Play other sports!!!  Build an athlete.

 

Play a few holes.  No need to "kick" a 9-10 a** into gear and make them cry.  That's called being a bully.

 

Develop fun games with kids.  Ask them their goals for golf.  Enjoy your time together with them.

[wildcatden]

42 minutes ago, mojomover said:

 

I am curious- how do you develop that fun, foster it as a parent or is it just a personality thing?

 

 

At my house, it's baseball season.  That's how we keep golf fun.  If your junior is grinding on golf all year long at a young age, I'm in the "that's not the best idea" camp.  Note: There are kids who are exceptions. Decide if yours is one of those.

 

Just remember, when submitting your golf resume to future college golf coaches, they won't give a single second of thought to how your kid did in tournaments at age 6,7,8,9,10,11,12 (and maybe even a couple years more).
 

 

[RmoorePE]

7 minutes ago, mgoblue83 said:

Not one mention of "having fun" in the entire thread? Sounds miserable.

 

If they aren't having fun at 8-9 (any age?) years old find a different activity. Yes, there is pressure during tournaments but enjoying the challenge of the next shot is the only thing that should matter. 

Easy to say, but hard to put into place. All of us are golfers, it is no fun to hit a bad shot or have a bad hole. Eventually I just realized I was bad, so its not so bad for me anymore, but kids are different. 

 

I put literally no pressure on my daughter, and she gets down really fast. I tell her "If you cry as much when I die as when you get a double bogey, I will know you loved me." Fact is if your kid is an emotional competitor, it is probably a good thing, but it is hard to watch.

 

We have been trying a thing called "walking practice" and I actually think it helped this weekend. When we are practicing or playing casual I make her to practice walking to the ball. Head is up, bounce in step, and excitement about what is to come. She thinks it is the dumbest thing ever, but I persist. She says "How is walking going to change the fact that I just got 2 double bogeys?!" I just keep telling her to do it.

 

It is forcing yourself to physically do something that changes your mental state.

 

Yesterday, she had two bad holes that basically pushed her from 2nd to 3rd in the tournament she was in. I told her grandparents, after a bad hole (#9) that she was going to melt for 4 holes. She had a predictably rushed, hole #10 (another double) and then her tee shot on the par 3 #11 was long left, but as she walked up to the green I handed her a Gatorade and told her to "walk big". I saw the light bulb, she rolled back her shoulders, strode to the ball, walked the green, and made a great short sided chip and got back to a normal round for the rest of the game.

 

So in the car after I was like, "I loved how you shifted your mind set on #11, it got you back on solid ground" and she almost agreed with me.

[mojomover]

2 minutes ago, RmoorePE said:

Easy to say, but hard to put into place. All of us are golfers, it is no fun to hit a bad shot or have a bad hole. Eventually I just realized I was bad, so its not so bad for me anymore, but kids are different. 

 

I put literally no pressure on my daughter, and she gets down really fast. I tell her "If you cry as much when I die as when you get a double bogey, I will know you loved me." Fact is if your kid is an emotional competitor, it is probably a good thing, but it is hard to watch.

 

We have been trying a thing called "walking practice" and I actually think it helped this weekend. When we are practicing or playing casual I make her to practice walking to the ball. Head is up, bounce in step, and excitement about what is to come. She thinks it is the dumbest thing ever, but I persist. She says "How is walking going to change the fact that I just got 2 double bogeys?!" I just keep telling her to do it.

 

It is forcing yourself to physically do something that changes your mental state.

 

Yesterday, she had two bad holes that basically pushed her from 2nd to 3rd in the tournament she was in. I told her grandparents, after a bad hole (#9) that she was going to melt for 4 holes. She had a predictably rushed, hole #10 (another double) and then her tee shot on the par 3 #11 was long left, but as she walked up to the green I handed her a Gatorade and told her to "walk big". I saw the light bulb, she rolled back her shoulders, strode to the ball, walked the green, and made a great short sided chip and got back to a normal round for the rest of the game.

 

So in the car after I was like, "I loved how you shifted your mind set on #11, it got you back on solid ground" and she almost agreed with me.

 

Thats a great suggestion- will try something similar. my son is a huge Steph Curry fan (like most NorCal kids), so I use some sporting analogies from basketball to help. 

 

[mojomover]

10 minutes ago, wildcatden said:

 

 

At my house, it's baseball season.  That's how we keep golf fun.  If your junior is grinding on golf all year long at a young age, I'm in the "that's not the best idea" camp.  Note: There are kids who are exceptions. Decide if yours is one of those.

 

Just remember, when submitting your golf resume to future college golf coaches, they won't give a single second of thought to how your kid did in tournaments at age 6,7,8,9,10,11,12 (and maybe even a couple years more).
 

 

 

Agreed on the tournament scores- so I don't care if he shoots 50+ 🙂 I want him to develop good/sustaining habits. We are in the midst of basketball picking up, so that should keep him busy a bit outside of golf too. 

[wildcatden]

5 minutes ago, mojomover said:

 

Agreed on the tournament scores- so I don't care if he shoots 50+ 🙂 I want him to develop good/sustaining habits. We are in the midst of basketball picking up, so that should keep him busy a bit outside of golf too. 

 

In previous years (age 6 to 9), we completely put the clubs down during baseball season.  This year, we are doing it a bit differently since our Little League baseball season extends into July with a 3 week break in June.  Some COVID scheduling related thing....blah, blah, blah. Anyway, based upon that extended baseball schedule, we decided to keep playing some tournaments (1 in April, 3 in March, 2 in June, 2 in July, 2  in August), but our practice time for golf has dropped to 2x per week at most.   It's tough because that baseball swing loves to wreck his golf swing.

 

[RmoorePE]

Basketball is easy to draw to. How does a player run down the court after they have hit a jumper, vs how do they run back after they missed one? 

 

Tell him Steph has that "made jumper" feeling all the time even after a miss. All the best shooters do.

14 minutes ago, mojomover said:

 

Agreed on the tournament scores- so I don't care if he shoots 50+ 🙂 I want him to develop good/sustaining habits. We are in the midst of basketball picking up, so that should keep him busy a bit outside of golf too. 

 

[BloctonGolf11]

18 hours ago, mojomover said:

 

It was a rough day yesterday where he missed a couple of really short putts and all of a sudden developed a duck hook, I likely would have broken a club if I was playing 😄 I think was hoping to get some general strategies that folks have developed to handle and release emotions

If you can figure out real strategies that work with every kid on how to handle emotions well enjoy your retirement and billions from the book you write. Again, there is no magic cure all and a hundred different strategies because each kid is wildly different and each kid is different themselves on any given day. I have tried everything from talking to my kid about golf, talking to him about spongebob, not talking to him, blowing sunshines and rainbows up his butt when he is +10 through three holes, busting his butt when he is +10 through three holes, and even literally staying a hole away from him. Sometimes things work other times it is a total disaster. Kids are tricky little bags of hormones and all you can do is try your best to help them do the best they can. 

Edited April 20, 2021 by BloctonGolf11

[BloctonGolf11]

18 hours ago, mgoblue83 said:

Not one mention of "having fun" in the entire thread? Sounds miserable.

 

If they aren't having fun at 8-9 (any age?) years old find a different activity. Yes, there is pressure during tournaments but enjoying the challenge of the next shot is the only thing that should matter. 

Pretty sure having fun is an understood motive for playing the game but that was not the subject of this thread or the OPs question. Having fun and not having emotional issues are two very different things. 

[heavy_hitter]

2 hours ago, BloctonGolf11 said:

Pretty sure having fun is an understood motive for playing the game but that was not the subject of this thread or the OPs question. Having fun and not having emotional issues are two very different things. 

 

I went to the Ice Cream Shop.  I was dressed in White Shirt/Tie and on a way to a function.  Gal behind the counter spilled a hot fudge sundae on me handing it over the counter.  Was a complete disaster.  All I wanted was Ice Cream and caused me to be late because I had to go home and change.  Was supposed to be fun, but didn't turn into fun.

 

Still SMDH!!!

[ConcernedBoutCOVID]

It takes a certain type of personality to love golf.  If a kid needs to always having fun, it may not be the best fit.

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

1 hour ago, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

It takes a certain type of personality to love golf.  If a kid needs to always having fun, it may not be the best fit.

It's not only golf. 

 

Kids quitting sports is a major problem for many reasons. including diminishment of physical activity and greater potential to gravitate to unhealthy lifestyles, as well as lost opportunities at learning life lessons through sports. This article examines why kids quit sports, pulling from various research studies,

The main reasons kids quit sports are:

It’s not fun anymore

Pressure to perform...and injuries that can result from over training due to that pressure to perform

Their own perceptions of their own lack of competence at the sport

Time demands.

 

 

Let them be kids.  I am 40 ish.  I can tell you I never specialized in anything or wanted too.  I played baseball, football, basketball, bowling, and golf.  Now us as parents need to caddy and kick our 10 yos a** into gear to get them to perform.  That will really last. 

[wildcatden]

22 minutes ago, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

It's not only golf. 

 

Kids quitting sports is a major problem for many reasons. including diminishment of physical activity and greater potential to gravitate to unhealthy lifestyles, as well as lost opportunities at learning life lessons through sports. This article examines why kids quit sports, pulling from various research studies,

The main reasons kids quit sports are:

It’s not fun anymore

Pressure to perform...and injuries that can result from over training due to that pressure to perform

Their own perceptions of their own lack of competence at the sport

Time demands.

 

 

Let them be kids.  I am 40 ish.  I can tell you I never specialized in anything or wanted too.  I played baseball, football, basketball, bowling, and golf.  Now us as parents need to caddy and kick our 10 yos a** into gear to get them to perform.  That will really last. 

 

If someone gets frustrated at their junior's golf performance (or any other sports), they should always reference these charts (odds):

 

https://scholarshipstats.com/varsityodds

 

 

As stated, it takes a certain mentality to be an elite athlete.  Some people are athletic, but perhaps weren't mentally trained by a Green Beret father. Some are mentally tough, but just don't have the athleticism.  This is not to say to give up when your child is 10 years old. Instead, it just means that you shouldn't destroy your relationship with your child over a long shot. You'll know of they have a real chance to make it when puberty hits. I think the choice becomes "girls vs golf (or other sport)" for junior boys.

 

[a_ryttet]

My oldest (8yo) also had quite a temper. I showed him the video of tiger making 10 on 12th at augusta and how he carried himself. Both just after the last putt, but also making 5 birdies on the last 6. Now when he gets angry at him self or dissapointed, i reffference that video, asking him wether he remeber how tiger behaved when carding a 10.

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

8 minutes ago, a_ryttet said:

My oldest (8yo) also had quite a temper. I showed him the video of tiger making 10 on 12th at augusta and how he carried himself. Both just after the last putt, but also making 5 birdies on the last 6. Now when he gets angry at him self or dissapointed, i reffference that video, asking him wether he remeber how tiger behaved when carding a 10.

My is quite a bit older than yours, but he read this and many others over the winter months the past few years.

 

Harvey Penick's Little Red Book: Lessons And Teachings From A Lifetime In Golf

 

Also,

Golf Is Not a Game of Perfect

by Bob Rotella

[mojomover]

10 hours ago, wildcatden said:

 

If someone gets frustrated at their junior's golf performance (or any other sports), they should always reference these charts (odds):

 

https://scholarshipstats.com/varsityodds

 

 

As stated, it takes a certain mentality to be an elite athlete.  Some people are athletic, but perhaps weren't mentally trained by a Green Beret father. Some are mentally tough, but just don't have the athleticism.  This is not to say to give up when your child is 10 years old. Instead, it just means that you shouldn't destroy your relationship with your child over a long shot. You'll know of they have a real chance to make it when puberty hits. I think the choice becomes "girls vs golf (or other sport)" for junior boys.

 

 

Thank you for sharing that link, super interesting, though I also have a bunch of questions on the data (I head up a Data Science team, so this is my job 😄 ). Is high school golf the right benchmark? Is it more relevant to use say AJGA/JJGS rankings once you hit high school? 

 

Separately, on a relative basis, the odds seem fairly decent for golf when compared to say Tennis 🙂

[Medson]

I also have some questions about that stats, but I think @wildcatd

 's underlying argument is still valid. Play the long game. 

 

Now, if you will excuse me, I'm going to sign my daughter up for some ice hockey lessons. 

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Medson

[BFD3]

13 hours ago, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

...This article examines why kids quit sports, pulling from various research studies,

The main reasons kids quit sports are:

It’s not fun anymore

Pressure to perform...and injuries that can result from over training due to that pressure to perform

Their own perceptions of their own lack of competence at the sport

Time demands.

 

 

Let them be kids.  I am 40 ish.  I can tell you I never specialized in anything or wanted too.  I played baseball, football, basketball, bowling, and golf.  Now us as parents need to caddy and kick our 10 yos a** into gear to get them to perform.  That will really last. 

What article? 

Edited April 21, 2021 by BFD3

[Abh159]

7 hours ago, mojomover said:

 

Thank you for sharing that link, super interesting, though I also have a bunch of questions on the data (I head up a Data Science team, so this is my job 😄 ). Is high school golf the right benchmark? Is it more relevant to use say AJGA/JJGS rankings once you hit high school? 

 

Separately, on a relative basis, the odds seem fairly decent for golf when compared to say Tennis 🙂

 

High school sports is a better benchmark. Not every kid who plays golf plays in AJGA tournaments. I've seen plenty of kids who never played an AJGA or JGS ranked event go on to play golf in college. Granted it was for some DIII team that no one has ever heard of and no one on the team could break 85, but it still happens.

 

Regarding tennis... I think the key factor there is "US boys". I remember the men's tennis team at my school (DI Power 5 school) had 10-12 people on the team and only one of them was American. The number of international born college golfers has been growing, but it's nothing compared to the amount in tennis.