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Is this what golf was like in the 90s?


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I mean, in its like the mid-to late 90s all over again. In that, you have a lot of guys who can win, a lot of guys who win who we all think should win more, and guys going on mini runs. DLIII is kind of like a JT, 1 major but should have won more. O'Meara put it together one season and got 2 majors, like a lesser Spieth I guess. Norman got 2 majors, should have probably won a handful more, almost like a DJ. You can keep going. For a lot of players today, their records aren't set in stone yet though, maybe JT gets 4 more majors, maybe Brooks gets another couple. Who knows. 

 

Guys have always went on runs though. Through the 2000s you Duval for a window, Vijay, Phil (won the 05 PGA and the 06 Masters. If he figured out to win the 06 US on the last hole he would have join Hogan and Tiger as the only three to win three majors in a row). Past shades of Seve, but maybe current shades of Jason Day. 

 

For guys today, they make more money on course, but I also think there are a lot of ways to make money off the course. At a point, I'm sure they all love golf, but when you get a bunch of money, you really have to love your craft to keep going. Look at someone like Nas, made a $100M apparently on coinbase, think he'll make another album? Aston Kusher make ~$250M on IPOs, should he really keep acting? Not saying Rory is making the same moves, but I'm sure he's got investments that if we really knew about and were in his shoes, we'd be like "yea I'm going to hangout with my kid instead of practicing wedges for another hour"

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I personally think the Tour is far too deep these days for someone to be able to clearly separate themselves from the pack for an extended period of time.

Loved the 90's.  Golf clothes featured more cotton and I don't remember any of the players needing an entourage or life coach. 

I remember the very day, circa 1994,  when I got to the club and saw 3 tables set up end-to-end.   They were taking shoes, unscrewing the metal spikes and inserting plastic spikes.  At the time it fel

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 I do not understand why you would want 1 dominant player. I think the most boring golf I ever watched was during the mid 2000s when Tiger was constantly winning. I would rather see it be super competitive with a deep field. I like not knowing who is going to win week to week. It's kind of like my tee shots with driver....a Pandora's box. Never know which way the ball will go....

 

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26 minutes ago, cleverprimate24 said:

Tiger is 1 of 7, over 40yr old Master's Champions. All but Mark O'Meara we're all time greats, so it's not unheard of for one to get hot and have a magical weekend at Augusta. There's been plenty more near misses.

 

Tiger's the goat, I don't think one hot year over 40 for him negates the strengths of a whole era. Especially, when most of the best ones haven't even hit their prime yet. 

 

I can't speak for Rory, he's got a long way to go before he is sniffing major victories again. Though, he's still younger than Phil when he won his first Major, and green jacket simultaneously. 


 

Right so...

 

By age 26, TW had won 3 Masters.

 

BK, Rory, JT, Rahm, Bryson have a combined total of

 

Zero.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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53 minutes ago, golfer929 said:

1. You don't have to be very good

2. Be good enough to win a major

 

Pick one

 

you dont need to win or even barely contend in a single major to be  very comfortable. Donald? Kuchar?

 

In any case, being good is relative. Relative to 99.99% of people to ever play, yes if you win a major youre good. Relative to the true big names who perform more often than not.. no, you aint 

 

 

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14 hours ago, BobMorris said:

I personally think the Tour is far too deep these days for someone to be able to clearly separate themselves from the pack for an extended period of time.

Based on that quote you are definitely in the 90’s.  That is exactly what was said prior to Tiger.

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2 hours ago, Old Tom Morris said:

Golf was great before Tiger Woods, with Tiger Woods, and will be great without Tiger Woods.

 

 

This is the best "feel-good" post of 2021. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here is a list of the best feel-good movies of the 90's.

 

https://www.bustle.com/p/24-of-the-best-feel-good-movies-of-the-90s-to-watch-when-the-present-day-seems-too-depressing-27153

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

I still say the big money, especially endorsement big money, even for a mid range tour talent serves as a disincentive to work hard. 

That same thing was being said in the 70’s.

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20 minutes ago, cleverprimate24 said:

 

The amount of times I've said that any of these players are as good as Tiger, or even close

 

Zero. 

 

Not sure what your point is


 

Here is what you said about Tiger beating all the young guns At Augusta...

 

“The Master's is friendly tournament for aging veterans“

 

“Tiger is 1 of 7, over 40yr old Master's Champions.“

 

Im pointing out that, unlike the case of BK, Rory, JT, Rahm, and Bryson 

 

Per TWs 3 wins by 26 and 4 wins by 30, Augusta can be a “friendly tournament” for young golfers as well ; ) 
 

Well, for those who have the combination of skills and ability to play under the pressure of the most important event on tour (per the players) 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, golfortennis said:

It's exactly what he is saying.  Things were right when Woods was number 1, they aren't right now, and was it like this before Woods?

 

He gave away the ghost a few posts later.

 

He doesn't know what he's saying and you don't know what he said.  All I can say is that I would never say something such as that or even think it; furthermore I don't know why anyone would say something like that. My goodness.

 

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58 minutes ago, Ironman_32 said:

I mean, in its like the mid-to late 90s all over again. In that, you have a lot of guys who can win, a lot of guys who win who we all think should win more, and guys going on mini runs. DLIII is kind of like a JT, 1 major but should have won more. O'Meara put it together one season and got 2 majors, like a lesser Spieth I guess. Norman got 2 majors, should have probably won a handful more, almost like a DJ. You can keep going. For a lot of players today, their records aren't set in stone yet though, maybe JT gets 4 more majors, maybe Brooks gets another couple. Who knows. 

 

Guys have always went on runs though. Through the 2000s you Duval for a window, Vijay, Phil (won the 05 PGA and the 06 Masters. If he figured out to win the 06 US on the last hole he would have join Hogan and Tiger as the only three to win three majors in a row). Past shades of Seve, but maybe current shades of Jason Day. 

 

For guys today, they make more money on course, but I also think there are a lot of ways to make money off the course. At a point, I'm sure they all love golf, but when you get a bunch of money, you really have to love your craft to keep going. Look at someone like Nas, made a $100M apparently on coinbase, think he'll make another album? Aston Kusher make ~$250M on IPOs, should he really keep acting? Not saying Rory is making the same moves, but I'm sure he's got investments that if we really knew about and were in his shoes, we'd be like "yea I'm going to hangout with my kid instead of practicing wedges for another hour"

 

And the thing is, hanging out with your kid is probably the better move as a person to do, yet we trash him for that and want him to grind even though he has already accomplished so much. 

 

If you look at tiger growing up he is pretty much the poster child for incessantly grinding away at a pursuit to be incredible at it, which is what you see in olympic athletes, elite musicians, basically anyone who is among the "best in the world" category of what they do. 

Tiger pretty much developed nothing else outside of his golf game and it seems at least somewhat plausible that this contributed to this off the course issues. It's an inherently unhealthy pursuit where you are devoting your entire life to the pursuit of one thing and nothing else. That's fine when you're a 16 yr old kid but doesn't work for most later in life. 

 

It's like the dirty secret no one talks about and golf is a perfect example. Getting good at stuff is pretty hard! You're not going to become a scratch golfer playing once a week. Maybe if you start when you're a kid and get good its easier to maintain but to be good at stuff requires lots of effort, which becomes disproportionately greater as the levels get higher. 

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46 minutes ago, milesgiles said:

 

you dont need to win or even barely contend in a single major to be  very comfortable. Donald? Kuchar?

 

In any case, being good is relative. Relative to 99.99% of people to ever play, yes if you win a major youre good. Relative to the true big names who perform more often than not.. no, you aint 

I agree that you don't need to win to be comfortable, but you can't just go in the next sentence after that and say win a major. If you win a major you're very very good. 

 

The 2 examples you gave is of one guy who has 17 professional wins, was ranked #1 in the world, and has 5 Top-5 finishes in majors. The other guy also has 17 wins, one of them being The Players, and has 4 Top-5 major finishes. 

 

Maybe could have picked some better examples of guys who haven't won and live a comfortable life lol

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34 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:


 

Here is what you said about Tiger beating all the young guns At Augusta...

 

“The Master's is friendly tournament for aging veterans“

 

“Tiger is 1 of 7, over 40yr old Master's Champions.“

 

Im pointing out that, unlike the case of BK, Rory, JT, Rahm, and Bryson 

 

Per TWs 3 wins by 26 and 4 wins by 30, Augusta can be a “friendly tournament” for young golfers as well ; ) 
 

Well, for those who have the combination of skills and ability to play under the pressure of the most important event on tour (per the players) 

 

 

 

It seems like you keep trying to prove something that I clearly agree with. Tiger the the goat and far superior to any current player. I never said young guys can't win the Masters. Young, and prime age are more likely than the old guys, but compared to other majors, older guys win the Masters more frequently.

 

Speith won a Masters young, while DJ, P-Reed, and Hideki all won at what I would consider "prime" age. 

 

Now, I think it's worth noting that those guys you just listed have a combined 10 Majors, so it's not like they can't win the big one even if their closet lacks a green jacket

 

Quote

 

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there were great players in the 80s-90s....what you didnt have was the internet for people to hype up players and make athletes into superheroes....if Jack , Watson , Trevino and others had the internet and social media along with the GC like today, they would have been bigger legends than they already are...Think about this , we have seen just about every significant shot in Tiger's illustrious career, if the big 3 I mentioned above had the same media coverage and chat forums were available, there is no telling what we would be talking about

 

Golf did not begin with the TW era...the saturation of media attention over a single golfer may have begun with him, but there was some great golf played decades before

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33 minutes ago, Ferguson said:

 

He doesn't know what he's saying and you don't know what he said.  All I can say is that I would never say something such as that or even think it; furthermore I don't know why anyone would say something like that. My goodness.

 

 

Go find a post of his in this thread that doesn't mention Woods.  Tell you what, I'll save you the trouble.  You can't.  

 

I'll give him credit, he isn't even trying to deny it.  His responses to cleverprimate24 should make it clear, but if you don't think so, you are certainly entitled to your opinion.    

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Golf, to me, has ALWAYS been fascinating...

 

honestly, if u didn’t like golf in every decade that’s ok...


Her is an unbelievably exciting example...golf historians rarely give this tournament the reverence it deserves...


I understand their reluctance but it was almost impossible to convey how much this performance landed like a bomb on the golfing world

 

it remains an awe inspiring week of play from a then unknown young man

 

 

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1 hour ago, Shilgy said:

That same thing was being said in the 70’s.

Maybe so, but even adjusted for inflation the tour money of the 70's is chump change compared to the money made today.  For example in the 70's The Masters winners take averaged $35,500 vs the winner for the last decade gets average take was $1.7M.  The Players entire purse in 1974 was $250,000 vs 2020 of $15M. Without doing the math I'm venturing that's 15-20x the rate of inflation.  

 

I'd guess we see similar when it comes to endorsement money today vs the 70's as well.  

 

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15 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

It seems we are in a period of golf with no great players.

 

I mean, there’s some really good players. But nobody who’s “the man” or even anything close. We got like cooky Bryson, watered down Rory, nervous JT, Duh DJ. ...

 

You had Jack, Watson picked it up for a while then this period of no greats. Then Tiger. Then Rory and Spieth had some really great play.  

 

I take issue with your premise for a couple of reasons...

 

Jack Nicklaus was the lead-off man of an era when golf truly expanded into an international sport, not a sport with a few hot spots like UK and USA. One multiplier was the great expansion of air travel, especially international flights.

 

When Ben Hogan and other Americans went to play in the UK in the 1950s, a passenger ship crossing would take from four to seven days. Plus, one had to travel to the coast to get aboard ship. Now, a person takes a commuter flight to JFK airport, and then continues on to London. A NYC/JFK direct flight to London about 8 hours, not 7 days.

 

The farther you get away from the 1960s, the greater the strength of field increases for pro tournaments due to increased speed and lowering cost of transportation.I

 

Also, the 1960s saw the tour pros started to increase their control over the golf industry. In 1969, tour stars formed the Tournament Players division of the PGA.

 

In this era, you started to see more tour pros who were also great athletes. Jack Nicklaus received two athletic scholarship offers to Ohio State - one for golf and one for basketball. Hale Irwin had been an All Big 8 defense back on the Colorado Buffalos football team, besides playing golf for them. San Francisco 49ers QB John Brodie would go on to be the first NFL alumni to win a pro golf tournament.

 

Fast-forward to the 1990s, and suddenly Tiger Woods is there. He was groomed since childhood to be a tournament golfer, and simultaneously engaged in a vigorous fitness routine to build up his physical strength.

 

"It seems we are in a period of golf with no great players."  You are missing what's going on.

 

15 hours ago, BobMorris said:

I personally think the Tour is far too deep these days for someone to be able to clearly separate themselves from the pack for an extended period of time.

 

There are lots of great players. Namely you have a dozen Tiger 2.0 golfers who have channeled the original TW and greatly increased the level of competition.

 

The PGA tour now has lots of great golfers who have made it difficult for each other to win repeatedly on the tour.

 

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GOATs are not made every decade, but multiple decades, few and far in between.  What we have these days is a lot of above average golfers that are labeled professional but NOT blazing stars.  We know that based on their volatile performance, how they behave and especially know it when the mic is shoved in their face.  A select few people can live under the light, most people stay out of the light.

 

Many people justify players not winning by saying the depth of field is so deep, it's hard to take multiple wins; I disagree with that.  If there's a budding GOAT in front of us, he will show his truth, as Tiger did, regardless of how many are in the field.  When I hear a media person say "These Guys are Good" the word 'good' fits.  Until someone shows us otherwise, maybe football jargon fits, who's worthy of first string?

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4 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Maybe so, but even adjusted for inflation the tour money of the 70's is chump change compared to the money made today.  For example in the 70's The Masters winners take averaged $35,500 vs the winner for the last decade gets average take was $1.7M.  Without doing the math I'm venturing that's 15-20x the rate of inflation.

 

I'd guess we see similar when it comes to endorsement money today vs the 70's as well.  

 

The reason the Senior tour became so successful in the 90's was for two reasons.  Golf fans liked watching Jack, Arnie and Lee compete because the regular tour just didn't always seem that exciting.  Plus all of those guys wanted to play for some money as they had never really earned all that much during their prime on the regular tour.  Jack and Lee had some serious financial problems at one point.  Arnie made all his money on endorsements.  Actually if you want to say anything about golf in the late 80's and the early to mid 90's it's that senior tour golf was almost as popular minus the majors.  

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10 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Maybe so, but even adjusted for inflation the tour money of the 70's is chump change compared to the money made today.  For example in the 70's The Masters winners take averaged $35,500 vs the winner for the last decade gets average take was $1.7M.  Without doing the math I'm venturing that's 15-20x the rate of inflation.

 

I'd guess we see similar when it comes to endorsement money today vs the 70's as well.  

 

To me  it does not matter. If the so called disincentive to work hard is financial the top players were enormously financially successful. Thus why work hard.

 

The problem is those that think having money is an impediment to continued success are those with the wrong mindset to success in the first place.  

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3 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Tome it does not matter. If the so called disincentive to work hard is financial the top players were enormously financially successful. Thus why work hard.

 

The problem is those that think having money is an impediment to continued success are those with the wrong mindset to success in the first place.  

Actually not a disincentive to continue making money, they diversify how they make money. They turn their winnings into an empire that makes as much or more money in a predictable return rather than reliance on purely needing to win.  

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50 minutes ago, golfer929 said:

I agree that you don't need to win to be comfortable, but you can't just go in the next sentence after that and say win a major. If you win a major you're very very good. 

 

The 2 examples you gave is of one guy who has 17 professional wins, was ranked #1 in the world, and has 5 Top-5 finishes in majors. The other guy also has 17 wins, one of them being The Players, and has 4 Top-5 major finishes. 

 

Maybe could have picked some better examples of guys who haven't won and live a comfortable life lol

 

yes i could pick better examples, I dont need to. If its true that they have 5 top 5's in majors, theyve entered more than 60 each, so they hardly set the world on fire 

 

 

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45 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

Go find a post of his in this thread that doesn't mention Woods.  Tell you what, I'll save you the trouble.  You can't.  

 

I'll give him credit, he isn't even trying to deny it.  His responses to cleverprimate24 should make it clear, but if you don't think so, you are certainly entitled to your opinion.    

 

It's not my opinion.  The Tiger often gets mentioned in golf conversations.   

He influenced millions of people, not just golfers. 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Ferguson said:

 

It's not my opinion.  The Tiger often gets mentioned in golf conversations.   

He influenced millions of people, not just golfers. 

 

 

Never said he didn't.  The guy had said, he didn't follow what was being discussed.  And I told him it was another thread to say that it was better when Woods was #1.  You said otherwise.  I supported my opinion.  You disagreed again, and deflected here.  Round and round we go.

 

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43 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

GOATs are not made every decade, but multiple decades, few and far in between.  What we have these days is a lot of above average golfers that are labeled professional but NOT blazing stars.  We know that based on their volatile performance, how they behave and especially know it when the mic is shoved in their face.  A select few people can live under the light, most people stay out of the light.

 

Many people justify players not winning by saying the depth of field is so deep, it's hard to take multiple wins; I disagree with that.  If there's a budding GOAT in front of us, he will show his truth, as Tiger did, regardless of how many are in the field.  When I hear a media person say "These Guys are Good" the word 'good' fits.  Until someone shows us otherwise, maybe football jargon fits, who's worthy of first string?


 

PTurbo with the big winner of the topic!

 

Every line dissects this subject like a surgeon!

 

Pepperturbo the big winner! 
 

🏆 

 


 

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ChipNRun said:

 

I take issue with your premise for a couple of reasons...

 

Jack Nicklaus was the lead-off man of an era when golf truly expanded into an international sport, not a sport with a few hot spots like UK and USA. One multiplier was the great expansion of air travel, especially international flights.

 

When Ben Hogan and other Americans went to play in the UK in the 1950s, a passenger ship crossing would take from four to seven days. Plus, one had to travel to the coast to get aboard ship. Now, a person takes a commuter flight to JFK airport, and then continues on to London. A NYC/JFK direct flight to London about 8 hours, not 7 days.

 

The farther you get away from the 1960s, the greater the strength of field increases for pro tournaments due to increased speed and lowering cost of transportation.I

 

Also, the 1960s saw the tour pros started to increase their control over the golf industry. In 1969, tour stars formed the Tournament Players division of the PGA.

 

In this era, you started to see more tour pros who were also great athletes. Jack Nicklaus received two athletic scholarship offers to Ohio State - one for golf and one for basketball. Hale Irwin had been an All Big 8 defense back on the Colorado Buffalos football team, besides playing golf for them. San Francisco 49ers QB John Brodie would go on to be the first NFL alumni to win a pro golf tournament.

 

Fast-forward to the 1990s, and suddenly Tiger Woods is there. He was groomed since childhood to be a tournament golfer, and simultaneously engaged in a vigorous fitness routine to build up his physical strength.

 

"It seems we are in a period of golf with no great players."  You are missing what's going on.

 

 

There are lots of great players. Namely you have a dozen Tiger 2.0 golfers who have channeled the original TW and greatly increased the level of competition.

 

The PGA tour now has lots of great golfers who have made it difficult for each other to win repeatedly on the tour.

 


 

I assure you I’m not missing anything. I see the caliber of play out there.

 

But, performance breaks down to your tool box, your prep, your execution.

 

Nobody has what TW 1.0 had in the toolbox. 
 

Nobody preps better.

 

Some execute at his level for decent periods of time. But then it falls apart or reverts to a more sustainable baseline. 
 

So, it’s not being critical of the current crop, it’s just pointing out there’s no truly great players among them. 

Edited by bscinstnct
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Greg Norman spent 4 years atop the OWGR in the 1990s and ~6 years total...and that's not dominant?

 

What DJ has done over the last six years ago is by definition dominant.

 

You're a lunatic if you think you have to match the accomplishments of Jack or Tiger to be labeled dominant...those guys are generational. They are the two best of all time. They transcend what it means to be dominant.

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      Scotty Cameron putters - 2021 Palmetto Championship @ Congaree
       
       
       
       
      • 35 replies
    • 2021 Memorial - Discussion & Links
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       

       
      2021 Memorial - Tuesday #1
      2021 Memorial - Tuesday #2
      2021 Memorial - Tuesday #3
      2021 Memorial - Tuesday #4
      2021 Memorial - Tuesday #5
      2021 Memorial - Tuesday #6
      2021 Memorial - Tuesday #7
      2021 Memorial - Tuesday #8
      2021 Memorial - Tuesday #9
       
       
       

       
       
       

       
      Piretti putter & cover for Hideki - 2021 Memorial
      Odyssey putters - 2021 Memorial
      New Odyssey (play like a kid) putter over - 2021 Memorial
      Bettinardi putters & covers - 2021 Memorial
      Ben An's Cameron putter - 2021 Memorial
       
       
      • 27 replies
    • 2021 Charles Schwab Challenge  - Discussion & Links
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       

       
      2021 Charles Schwab Challenge - Tuesday #1
      2021 Charles Schwab Challenge - Tuesday #2
      2021 Charles Schwab Challenge - Tuesday #3
      2021 Charles Schwab Challenge - Tuesday #4
      2021 Charles Schwab Challenge - Tuesday #5
      2021 Charles Schwab Challenge - Tuesday #6
      2021 Charles Schwab Challenge - Tuesday #7
       
       

       
      2021 Charles Schwab Challenge winner will get this Power wagon
      Eric Compton testing Axis 1 putter - 2021 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Cameron putter and new cover - 2021 Charles Schwab Challenge
       
       
      • 7 replies
    • Phil Mickelson Winning WITB from the 2021 PGA Championship
      Phil Mickelson's Winning What's In The Bag? 
       
      Driver: Callaway Epic Speed Triple Diamond (6 degrees @5.5 , green dot cog) Fujikura Ventus Black 6 X (47.9 inches)
      2-wood: TaylorMade “Original One” Mini Driver (11.5 degrees) Fujikura Ventus Black 7 X
      4-wood: (Sunday only): Callaway Mavrik Sub Zero (16.5 degrees) Fujikura Ventus Blue 8 X
      Irons: Callaway X Forged UT (16) (Thursday-Saturday), Callaway X21 UT Proto (19 degrees @20.5, 25), Callaway Apex MB ‘21 (small groove) (6-PW) Shafts- 16* MCA MMT 105 TX, KBS Tour V 125 S+
      Wedges: Callaway PM Grind ’19 “Raw” ([email protected]*, 55-12*, 60-10*) Shafts: KBS Tour V 125 S+
      Putter: Odyssey Milled Blade “Phil Mickelson” SuperStroke Pistol GT Tour
      Ball: Callaway Chrome Soft X (Triple Track)
      Grips: Golf Pride MCC
       
      Link to more pics on the front-page... https://www.golfwrx.com/654804/phil-mickelson-witb-2021-may-pga-championship/
       

       
       
        • Like
      • 86 replies
    • Ping i59 irons - 2021 Wells Fargo Championship
      Ping i59 irons - 2021 Wells Fargo Championship
        • Like
      • 207 replies

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