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S vs. X stiff irons


thl9077
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Hello,

 

I know that only a proper fitting will result in making the best decision. For those who could have gone stiff or x-stiff in your irons what was your decision and why? 

 

I play X-stiff driver but noticed that X-stiff driver users have an even split of either S or X stiff in their irons.

 

PS - I'm not interested in S+ and committing to either S or X stiff. 

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Sorry, but you really need to hit both and see for yourself. I’ve used x flex basically my whole life. I strike it solid and my speed has always been on the higher range. But even now at an older age I love the feel of the stiffer flex and the control of my ballflight.  Could I get another club of distance, possibly, but I don’t want to hit my irons further. I hit them on the numbers I want at the flight window I prefer. Every player is different on what they are looking for. Until you hit both in the heads you prefer you just don’t know if the shafts fits you and feels right

COBRA RADSPEED 9.0 HZRDUS RDX BLUE 6.0                                        SRIXON ZX 13.5 MIYAZAKI MIZORE 70X                                               WILSON M5 TOUR 17* ALDILA ROGUE STIFF.                                           TITLEIST U510 3 ALDILA PHENOM 100 stiff.                                       SRIXON Z FORGED 4-PW CATALYST 100 6.5                                         SRIXON ZX7 A WEDGE 50* CATALYST 100 6.0                                        CALLAWAY JAWS FULL 54* MMT 125 Stiff.                                        CALLAWAY JAWS FULL 58* MMT 125 Stiff.                                         NATIONAL CUSTOM NICOLL BLADE SNELL MTB-X

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I usually actually like regular or stiff... my driver swing speed touches 100 mph give or take a few but probably more toward take. Im currently in xstiff modus 120 not by purpose but because the irons i bought came im them and it seems to be ok.. doesnt seem board rock stiff or super heavy but I would prefer lighter maybe 105 110 and a touch more flexible. Cant complain too hard on the scores so far though. Just comes Down to real life results and feel. Not a fan of screen swings. Its nothing like real life golf.

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If you have the swing speed @golfinbrad has the gist of it. I'm consistently fitted to an X by paper specs and have played 3 diff X shafts without difficulty. Having said that I'm currently playing a S+ and in some shaft profiles would go down to the S. Reason being, the S+ and S lets me swing just a little bit slower to find a more consistent stroke. If I want, I can still juice a swing for a little bit extra. The X forced me to swing at least 70% every time if not more. If your closure angle and the torque of your swing are not drastically affected by a S shaft, I would go with that. 

 

PS. nothing wrong with the S+ as you have plenty of options in KBS or PX. You can also step shafts to give you a little bit more stiffness but that will take a much more competent and knowledgeable fitter to accomplish. 

Edited by AcesAndHoles
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Driver: Callaway Epic Flash SZ 9* w/ Hzrdus Smoke Black

Irons : Wilson D7 Forged 4-G w/ KBS Tour | Epic Flash 3h w/ Tensei Silver

Putter: Bettinardi Inovai 6.0 / TM HydroBlast Del Monte 1

 

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I moved from a stiff flex 120g shaft (modus) to x flex steelfiber 110s and it has been a tremendous change. I’m not the fastest, but have a shortish swing and a hard transition - the x flex shafts have improved dispersion and the flight profile. My numbers wouldn’t traditionally justify the x flex, and I tried them because I got a great bargain on the forum here on a set of irons and shafts I wanted to try, and I’m now ready to sell my pretty new irons with the modus in them.

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I play x flex in my irons because I get too much spin with s flex and dispersion tends to suffer.  Only exception was the c-tapers many eons ago.  I ultimately went with S+ because it had a little more feel and I didn't have to absolutely go full bore like the X in order for it to work for me.  The MMT 125 TX play to flex, have great feel, less vibration than steel and give me the flight I want without excessive spin. 

TM SIM 2, 8* w/Diamana ZF 60TX

TM SIM 15* w/Diamana ZF 80TX

TM Tour Issue Rescue 11 TP Deep Face Ghost Proto 16* HB  w/Thump 105x

New Level NLU-01 21* w/KBS Proto 105x

New Level 623-M 5-PW w/MMT 125 TX

54* Miura HB w/KBS 610 S+, 58* Miura w/KBS Tour Black

Scotty Cameron Studio Select Newport 1

 

 

 

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I’ve had chs up to 115... last time I got fit my 7 iron was 96 mph...

 

i was  playing regular flex shafts. they were fine.

 

I’d suggest trying things and figuring out what you like... personally, I think weight is a bigger factor than flex.

 

I’m also unsure why you don’t want S+. The s400s are awesome and probably my favorite shaft.

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As of  10/11/2021

9 Callaway Mavrk Sub Zero with Ventus Black 7X

13 Degree Srixon 3 wood Project X Black 6.5

19 Degree Sub70 939 Pro with Proforce V2

4 Utility Sub70 699u 22 degree Proforce V2

5-GW Srixon Zx5 with Project X 6.5

Sub70 286 54

Sub70 JB Low Bounce 58

SeeMore milled Tri-Mallet fit and built at SeeMore 

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Shaft flex is primarily a kinesthetic effect.  On a robot (and for some shaft insensitive players, i.e. Mark Crossfield), shaft flex has almost no effect on club delivery (other than dynamic lie from shaft droop, which can be adjusted).  For the most part shafts don't themselves effect spin, launch, club head speed or quality of contact.  Most people, however, are sensitive to some degree to shaft feel and different flexes/EL profiles will result in the player delivering the club head differently.  People will tend to do better with a feeling they are familiar with.  Which makes shaft flex/EL profile a chicken/egg problem.  Most good/fast players play stiff/extra stiff shafts, and thus perform better with them since that's what they played when developing their swing.

 

From a practical standpoint don't overthink it.  When people have markedly different results from a shaft during a fitting, in most cases it's transitory (hello honeymoon period).  Our bodies are very good at adapting, and for most people, even a drastic change in feel will settle down to typical results in a matter of days.  There are exceptions of course, some people are super sensitive and can get all messed up with even small changes (again, it's them not the shaft, though does that matter?)  Super sensitive, non-adapters are a fitters dream, they can actually positively impact their golf swing via equipment changes.  Unfortunately they are a small minority (again, long term, lots of people get better results from a fitting, but regress to their norm once their body/brain adapts to the new sensation.

 

If you want an excellent example of how much shaft performance is between the ears, look at all the results for the Autoflex shaft.  It is a super flexible shaft, but most people go in believing it has some secret ability to perform stiffer than it is, and do in fact deliver the clubhead similarly to much stiffer shafts (meaning that just like a robot, they don't make a swing compensation due to the flex).  If you gave the same people a senior flex shaft they would likely hate it and make terrible swings, despite most senior flex shafts being stiffer than the X Autoflex.  In the case of the Autoflex the person feels the club head lagging, but believe it will catch up (it will), so continue swinging as normal.  Whereas with the senior flex they don't think the club head will catch up (an incorrect conclusion), and stall, usually resulting in snap hooks from the shaft being 'too flexible'.

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I think it really depends on the head, too.  I can play X, but typically wind up in stiff as X seems to give me more elbow pain.  I have Modus 120 in my Z785 and had Modus 120 in my Ping i210 also.  I will say, I MUCH prefer the flight of the Z785 in this shaft, more of a mid flight that just suits my eye.  The i210 had higher flight, nothing terrible, but not what I prefer to see.. I realize thats mostly from the head but just an example of how all the parts together will have to factor it.  I may have preferred an X in the i210 for a little more control, possibly lower flight.  

 

If I was forced to choose and pain didnt play a role, I'd probably be happy with X100s in my irons as anytime I have used them, dispersion has been great.  It really comes down to your personal preferences...

Taylormade SIM2 10.5  HZRDUS RDX blue 60  6.0

Titleist 917f2 16.5 (C1)  Aldila Rogue silver 70s

Ping G410 19  Aldila Rogue black 85s

PXG Gen 3  0311T  4-P  Elevate Tour stiff

Ping Glide Stealth 2.0  52/12, 58/10

Odyssey White Hot OG Rossie 34.25"

 

Snell MTB 

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21 hours ago, Myherobobhope said:

I’ve had chs up to 115... last time I got fit my 7 iron was 96 mph...

 

i was  playing regular flex shafts. they were fine.

 

I’d suggest trying things and figuring out what you like... personally, I think weight is a bigger factor than flex.

 

I’m also unsure why you don’t want S+. The s400s are awesome and probably my favorite shaft.

More of the same 

Driver is around 112-114mph 

7 iron is 92-94mph 

I play a Modus 105s

 

What I have learned from my last fitting is to try, try try again

 

I like to try different profiles and weights, then narrow it down to what i liked best, then fine tune flex. That’s the way the fitter structured my fitting


flex is arbitrary, so limiting oneself to a flex designation is working backwards in my opinion. For me It was great for fine tuning once I found a profile and weight I liked best. 
 

I like certain flexes within profiles and weights better than others 

DG s300 

DG 120s 

The Elevate tour X 

KBS Tour 120s 

DG 105x

PX 5.0-5.5

Modus 120X 

Modus 105s 

 

The Modus 120x felt the softest out of all the ones above to me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

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1 hour ago, Drivingrangehero said:

More of the same 

Driver is around 112-114mph 

7 iron is 92-94mph 

I play a Modus 105s

 

What I have learned from my last fitting is to try, try try again

 

I like to try different profiles and weights, then narrow it down to what i liked best, then fine tune flex. That’s the way the fitter structured my fitting


flex is arbitrary, so limiting oneself to a flex designation is working backwards in my opinion. For me It was great for fine tuning once I found a profile and weight I liked best. 
 

I like certain flexes within profiles and weights better than others 

DG s300 

DG 120s 

The Elevate tour X 

KBS Tour 120s 

DG 105x

PX 5.0-5.5

Modus 120X 

Modus 105s 

 

The Modus 120x felt the softest out of all the ones above to me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Highly recommend trying the s400s... though my irons have weirdly stepped project x 6.0s in them for reasons.

As of  10/11/2021

9 Callaway Mavrk Sub Zero with Ventus Black 7X

13 Degree Srixon 3 wood Project X Black 6.5

19 Degree Sub70 939 Pro with Proforce V2

4 Utility Sub70 699u 22 degree Proforce V2

5-GW Srixon Zx5 with Project X 6.5

Sub70 286 54

Sub70 JB Low Bounce 58

SeeMore milled Tri-Mallet fit and built at SeeMore 

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7 hours ago, Myherobobhope said:

Highly recommend trying the s400s... though my irons have weirdly stepped project x 6.0s in them for reasons.

I had played them at one point if time..... mostly in wedges. 
 

They are too heavy for me. I have disc Issues and arthritis, so my limit of weight caps around 120. I prefer sub 120 gram shafts, something 110-115 is where I find a home. The Modus 105s I play now are hs/x1 and swing weighted from D4 up high to D5 down low to off set the too light feeling. 

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On 4/21/2021 at 5:00 PM, thl9077 said:

Hello,

 

I know that only a proper fitting will result in making the best decision. For those who could have gone stiff or x-stiff in your irons what was your decision and why? 

 

I play X-stiff driver but noticed that X-stiff driver users have an even split of either S or X stiff in their irons.

 

PS - I'm not interested in S+ and committing to either S or X stiff. 

 

There is no standard for flex.  Which flex you might find to be a good fit can completely depend on the particular shaft model and weight you're looking at.  So if you only look at the flex label to make a decision you're bound to run into problems.

 

Here is a graph of the stiffness of the one x-stiff shaft and not one but two reg flex shaft.  Yes, that's R flex, not stiff.    Except for the very tip, the stiffness is virtually the same between the x-stiff nippon and the DG r300.   The steelfiber R flex is significantly stiffer than the x-stiff for the majority of it's length.

 

So forget the label, stay open minded and test more than one flex for each model you might be interested in and just pay attention to how it feels and performs when making a choice.

 

 

 

Capture.PNG

Edited by Stuart_G
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