Title update. Tiger: From crutches to golf swings

[straightshot7]

On 8/3/2021 at 9:24 PM, dalehead said:

Several of you have posted your experiences with serious leg fractures with a variety of results. My question for you is are you now able to walk and play 18 holes for 4 consecutive days?

 

I believe that is going to be Tiger’s biggest obstacle.

Broke every (major?) bone (tibia, fibula, talus, etc) in my left ankle in a car accident, almost 4 years ago. Probably destroyed more than just bones in the process. Had 2 surgeries. 

I can walk and play 18 holes for 4 days now, but my ankle is very sore the morning after.

 

My ankle still only feels like 70-80% strength though.

 

But, given that Tiger has the top medical care and is probably doing a great job at rehab, I think he will be better off. Plus, I think it's better to break your right ankle (for golf). Plus, Tiger is known for keeping himself in fantastic shape and having a high pain tolerance.

 

My bigger concern for his golf future is if he will have the motivation to keep going and if he can still swing with enough speed. He was already swinging like an old man version of himself, after the spinal fusion and everything.

 

But, he still might be able to contend at the Masters. Maybe win it one last time for old times' sake. 

[c7015]

On 8/4/2021 at 1:56 AM, grm24 said:

Let's not forget he had another back surgery "cleanup" in December not long after the PNC Father/Son event. How that factors in to his recovery especially after the wreck at this time is unknown. That surgery alone was keeping him out for months for the start of 2021. 

 

Exactly, notice in the celeb playing matches tiger is doing on golf tv he only ever has a putter ... 

 

Yes I can play 4-6 days in a row , but I am constantly amazed that pros can play 4 tourney rounds , pro am , practice and travel and still put up numbers in the 60's consistently 

[bscinstnct]

41 minutes ago, johnseg said:

I would mildly disagree. They work out daily. You can question the intensity but they all do. They have access to hyperbaric chambers and the best trainers and rehab therapists in the world not even factoring in the quality of their surgeons.

 

 

 

Frank Gore says hello.

 

Agree, the smart ones stay fit but not beyond the average guy who does some HIIT and strength training regularly.

 

Assuming solid rehab, Age and genetics and some luck are probable the biggest factors in injury recovery. 
 

And of course, in TWs, case, he has extensive prior, severe, physical issues that impact his ability to rehab and just his potential to recover overall.

 

Add his age and that I doubt, now that he won #15, he has anywhere near the same motivation to grind to peak tournament form, and I’ll be happy if he’s playing in the masters in reasonable shape in 2023. 

[Greg_B]

Everyone seems to be forgetting that he was done mid-2020 when his body began breaking down yet again. He was largely a ceremonial golfer at that point, grinding to make cuts and usually finishing at the bottom of the field if he did make the cut. Layer these devastating injuries on top of all that and you can only reach one possible conclusion. Him winning The Masters again (or anything else) isn't it.

[oikos1]

18 hours ago, johnseg said:

I would mildly disagree. They work out daily. You can question the intensity but they all do. They have access to hyperbaric chambers and the best trainers and rehab therapists in the world not even factoring in the quality of their surgeons.

 

 

 

Frank Gore says hello.

Thing is, Gore didn't have his ACL injuries when he was 35.  He was 19 and 20.  Tiger is 45.  There's just no comparison here as to how a twenty year old body heals compared to a 45 year old, no matter what the treatment is. 

 

Huge respect for Gore's longevity. 

[sekrah]

I could talk Tiger all day long..

 

I need to hear from more phys doctors.. Any silver lining here that his back may finally be given enough of a rest to heal properly?  Or is that just gonna be jacked up forever?

[dlygrisse]

8 minutes ago, sekrah said:

I could talk Tiger all day long..

 

I need to hear from more phys doctors.. Any silver lining here that his back may finally be given enough of a rest to heal properly?  Or is that just gonna be jacked up forever?

No one who has ever had multiple back surgeries has had their back heal “properly “. Since he will have some of the best PT in the world he will probably have some good weeks and some jacked up forever weeks.  
 

for those of sitting there and holding your breath and waiting for Tiger to return and dazzle us with his greatness, you may be experiencing a lack of oxygen soon. 
 

It’s going to take a lot of hard work and practice to get his game at a world class level again, mentally Tiger can probably still do it, but at what cost to his 45 year old beaten up body that has already taken maybe a bigger beating than any elite level golfer in history. 

[bscinstnct]

On 8/6/2021 at 9:58 AM, oikos1 said:

Thing is, Gore didn't have his ACL injuries when he was 35.  He was 19 and 20.  Tiger is 45.  There's just no comparison here as to how a twenty year old body heals compared to a 45 year old, no matter what the treatment is. 

 

Huge respect for Gore's longevity. 

 

I blew up my knee when I was 16. But recovery and rehab is miles apart from a 45 year old man. Lol, just reminded me my rehab girl looked like Marissa Tomei. Was quite a uhhh distraction and that’s all I’ll say.

 

But TW bones were turned to dust, I’m sure his biggest priority is a rehab and plan to be able to not suffer insane arthritis and complications so he can play golf and soccer with his kids. And his grandkids!

 

Whether or not he goes out on tour is great but actually a relatively *low priority for him I’d imagine. 

[Mr. Grumpy]

I'm no Doc, but I think Tigers bones will heal just fine, it's his joints and mental toughness that may never fully recover, especially to "pro golf level". Without a doubt he is one tough and focused guy, but aged and injury traumatized joints wear on you when you can't behave like you once did. My hope is that he accepts that and evolves his approach to the game. He will play pro golf again if that happens, but it will not be what he or the rest of us are used to seeing. 

 

 

[bscinstnct]

22 minutes ago, Mr. Grumpy said:

I'm no Doc, but I think Tigers bones will heal just fine, it's his joints and mental toughness that may never fully recover, especially to "pro golf level". Without a doubt he is one tough and focused guy, but aged and injury traumatized joints wear on you when you can't behave like you once did. My hope is that he accepts that and evolves his approach to the game. He will play pro golf again if that happens, but it will not be what he or the rest of us are used to seeing. 

 

 

 

Big part could be how bad the ankle was damaged. Pretty complex group of bones there and while activity ultimately is a great healer, not sure if “tour” activity and sustained pounding from golf swings is ideal. 
 

 

[tw_focus]

Word on the street is that TW was at Obama's birthday party last night. Not sure if he was walking, dancing, or what, but it's a good sign that he's getting out there. Clearly on the road to recovery.

 

2022 Torrey is where he will likely make his comeback.

[TiScape]

The Count wanted to offer up what he knows about bones. Should be as pertinent to Tiger’s situation as some of the other posts here 😊

 

Edited August 8, 2021 by TiScape

[oikos1]

This thread is starting to remind me of another one here at WRX...

 

 

[aenemated]

8 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

my rehab girl looked like Marissa Tomei.

 

"How're you feeling, mr. aenemated?"

"Oh gosh, still need a few more sessions. Tough sprain on this ankle ya know."

"You've been coming here for 5 years."

"¯\_(ツ)_/¯"

Edited August 8, 2021 by aenemated

[nsxguy]

On 7/31/2021 at 12:06 AM, tw_focus said:

There's no legitimate sports books taking bets on whether TW will return. But yes, I will bet heavily on TW to win tournaments once he comes back. Look out the first time he's back at Augusta. People counted him out when he came back the first time after the incident when he was rescued by his then-wife, but he would have won the tournament if not for an unlucky hit-the-pin-and-bounce-in-water followed by a mistaken drop.

 

On 7/31/2021 at 12:17 AM, grm24 said:

Ok sure. Tiger hitting the pin with the bad luck bounce back into the water and subsequent bad drop on the 15th at Augusta was in 2013 not 2010. No such drama for Tiger in the 2010 Masters.

 

On 7/31/2021 at 12:21 AM, tw_focus said:

Ok, maybe I was mistaken. 2013 was the comeback after being out for injury, and people did count him out of that tournament before it even started.

 

On 7/31/2021 at 12:39 AM, grm24 said:

You were mistaken. Tiger had already won 3 times on the PGA Tour in 2013 before the Masters. Nobody was counting him out of winning the 2013 Masters at that time. Nobody. He was by far the heavy betting favorite. You of course could of bet your house on it then. Did you?

 

He won his 4th event in 2013 (Players) in his first event back after the Masters and a 5th event at the WGC Bridgestone @ Firestone. He did have an elbow issue in June and a back injury in the Fed Ex Cup playoffs in which he finished 2nd.

 

https://www.sbnation.com/golf/2013/4/9/4204362/masters-2013-odds

 

 

@tw_focus

 

Seems like you need a bit more focus tw.

[DON SVO]

It’ll be interesting to see what happens by mid-2022, IMO. Tiger came back from the fusion surgery and was swinging 120+ for a season. His speed fell off a cliff, he looked very stiff and tender at the PNC father/son, and he quietly went and had another microdiscectomy right after that tournament. I know it’s all speculation on my end, but I feel like Tiger knew he had another disc issue for some time and just kept his crap together long enough to play the PNC with Charlie. 
 

The time line from the PNC to the car crash in February is right at 2 months, the discectomy is sandwiched between there somewhere and he wasn’t scheduled to return to golf until April. So realistically he got into that crash while in the middle of his back rehab to boot. Can be get things lined up enough to play competitively in 2022? I’m with everyone else that says we more than likely won’t get a glimpse of what the future holds for another year. 

[grm24]

5 hours ago, DON SVO said:

It’ll be interesting to see what happens by mid-2022, IMO. Tiger came back from the fusion surgery and was swinging 120+ for a season. His speed fell off a cliff, he looked very stiff and tender at the PNC father/son, and he quietly went and had another microdiscectomy right after that tournament. I know it’s all speculation on my end, but I feel like Tiger knew he had another disc issue for some time and just kept his crap together long enough to play the PNC with Charlie. 
 

The time line from the PNC to the car crash in February is right at 2 months, the discectomy is sandwiched between there somewhere and he wasn’t scheduled to return to golf until April. So realistically he got into that crash while in the middle of his back rehab to boot. Can be get things lined up enough to play competitively in 2022? I’m with everyone else that says we more than likely won’t get a glimpse of what the future holds for another year. 

His back surgery was December 23rd. What's yet unknown is if the car accident did any more damage to his back. All we have been told about are the leg and ankle injuries.

[mangohead]

Just a reality check here, but Tiger will probably never play golf again.  

Maybe he can play on a high school team?

[bscinstnct]

1 hour ago, mangohead said:

Just a reality check here, but Tiger will probably never play golf again.  

Maybe he can play on a high school team?

 

TW be on crutches

 

Give you 5 shots per side

 

And take your lunch money ; )

[Valtiel]

1 hour ago, mangohead said:

Just a reality check here, but Tiger will probably never play golf again.  

Maybe he can play on a high school team?

The equal and opposite reality check is that this prediction has been made since his earliest back surgeries in 2013/2014, but I guess the moral of crying wolf is that sometimes there actually is one, so I guess we'll see. 

[bigred90gt]

His biggest saving grace in all of this is he probably actually hasn’t swung a club since the accident, which will do wonders for healing his back. I’ve had back surgery twice and it was 3 months no swinging a club both time per doc orders. While I am absolutely certain he had better rehab than me, I am also absolutely sure he did not wait long enough to fully let his back heal. If the accident didn’t further damage his back, this time away from swinging a club can only do good for his back, though it can also wreak havoc on his swing. 
 

I hope he can come back, simply because he is far and away the greatest golfer to have swung a club in the last 30 years, if not ever (argument can be made, but that’s another thread somewhere), and it has been rather amazing watching his career. 

[dalehead]

2 hours ago, mangohead said:

Just a reality check here, but Tiger will probably never play golf again.  

Maybe he can play on a high school team?

I’m pretty sure Tiger will play golf again. But by play golf again I mean 18 holes 2 or 3 times a week, using a cart, with his son or with friends.

 

What is less clear is will he be able to return to PGA Tour golf and all that it demands?  A level above that is can he play and be competitive? The next level is can he contend? Each of these steps become more and more difficult.

 

Finally if he feels he cannot contend on a consistent basis will he decide it is not worth the pain and effort to continue?

[Golfrnut]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

 

TW be on crutches

 

Give you 5 shots per side

 

And take your lunch money ; )

 

I'm sure he's a much better post spammer than Tiger is in an effort to get those 75 posts.

 

 

[3whacker]

1 hour ago, dalehead said:

I’m pretty sure Tiger will play golf again. But by play golf again I mean 18 holes 2 or 3 times a week, using a cart, with his son or with friends.

 

What is less clear is will he be able to return to PGA Tour golf and all that it demands?  A level above that is can he play and be competitive? The next level is can he contend? Each of these steps become more and more difficult.

 

Finally if he feels he cannot contend on a consistent basis will he decide it is not worth the pain and effort to continue?

 

TW will always think he can contend otherwise he wouldn't even tee it up....this time around his body will tell him if its even possible to prepare let alone endure for 72 holes...thats going to be the fight of his life..he won't give up, he has never been a quitter...but Mother Nature and Father Time are a tough duo to beat..but if anyone can do it I won't count him out till he taps out

[Golfjack]

1 hour ago, 3whacker said:

 

TW will always think he can contend otherwise he wouldn't even tee it up....this time around his body will tell him if its even possible to prepare let alone endure for 72 holes...thats going to be the fight of his life..he won't give up, he has never been a quitter...but Mother Nature and Father Time are a tough duo to beat..but if anyone can do it I won't count him out till he taps out

It was already so tough against father time, but to throw in having your ankle crushed.  Wow.  It's a huge win for him to even get back to competing on the PGA tour, much less win majors.  

[oikos1]

This  is such a weird WRX thread.  Tiger is dunn.  Dune.  Dunna.  Done.  So many want to see him back, but it isn't happening.  He now has all time ambassador status and most likely will carry said title proudly.  Just be ready to appreciate when he does show up...

[straightshot7]

On 8/6/2021 at 3:26 AM, Greg_B said:

Everyone seems to be forgetting that he was done mid-2020 when his body began breaking down yet again. He was largely a ceremonial golfer at that point, grinding to make cuts and usually finishing at the bottom of the field if he did make the cut. Layer these devastating injuries on top of all that and you can only reach one possible conclusion. Him winning The Masters again (or anything else) isn't it.

Yes it is unlikely that he wins another major.

 

But, I'm sure you recall, that the consensus on this board was pretty much that same idea prior to him winning the Masters in 2019.

 

Pretty much no one had him winning that tournament. He was already a shell of his former self at that point. But he won.

 

We've seen many players well past their primes have an unexpected showing at a major (Phil, Tom Watson, etc).

 

Ultimately, I think it is wrong to conclude that he is done or that he is not done, unless you have intimate knowledge of his health or you can see the future. A fractured ankle is not insurmountable. Especially if he gets stem cell treatment or something to that effect. 

[SavageCy]

On 8/8/2021 at 9:11 AM, Mr. Grumpy said:

I'm no Doc, but I think Tigers bones will heal just fine, it's his joints and mental toughness that may never fully recover, especially to "pro golf level". Without a doubt he is one tough and focused guy, but aged and injury traumatized joints wear on you when you can't behave like you once did. My hope is that he accepts that and evolves his approach to the game. He will play pro golf again if that happens, but it will not be what he or the rest of us are used to seeing. 

 

 

The body part I can understand but are we seriously questioning the mental fortitude of the man at this point?...seriously? See Masters win of 2019 for more info.

[dlygrisse]

11 minutes ago, SavageCy said:

The body part I can understand but are we seriously questioning the mental fortitude of the man at this point?...seriously? See Masters win of 2019 for more info.

Jack Nicklaus's brain could win the Masters next year, hell...I would take his putting skills right now today over 3/4 the field.  It's the part of athletics everyone must face, as you age your knowledge gets stronger but your body weaker.  Ask any former NFL QB.  

 

 

[SavageCy]

2 hours ago, dlygrisse said:

Jack Nicklaus's brain could win the Masters next year, hell...I would take his putting skills right now today over 3/4 the field.  It's the part of athletics everyone must face, as you age your knowledge gets stronger but your body weaker.  Ask any former NFL QB.  

 

 

Exactly. If Tiger were to ever pot another major or two or five my money would be on them all happening at Augusta. That's an experience/thinking man's track more than anything.