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Dropping the 4 iron...need help.


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I’ve been playing enough recently to know that my 4 iron is the least reliable club in the bag and it’s time to move on from it. 
 

I’m a 15 index so forgiveness trumps distance (and distance isn’t an issue for me relatively speaking). 
 

On average:

6 iron is a 185 club (total)

5 iron is a 200 club

**Gap to be filled**
3 Ping G hybrid (19*) is a 225 club

3 wood is Taylormade M4 (15*) is a 240 club (also debating a replacement here to find more consistency and better launch)

Driver is Ping G and carries 275 with 112 mph swing speed and 165 mph club speed

 

So, thoughts? Ping G 4 hybrid (22*) or try my hand with a 5 or 7 wood? Or something else entirely (especially if I drop the 3 wd too)? 
 

Many thanks!

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I would question if you need a club between the 5i and hybrid for gapping purposes.  From 200+ yards I feel like 20ish yard gaps are fine- you’re better off choking down on the hybrid, or pulling the

I’ve been playing enough recently to know that my 4 iron is the least reliable club in the bag and it’s time to move on from it.    I’m a 15 index so forgiveness trumps distance (and distance i

Let's start with Question 2:  3W is iffy, consider a 4W.   Several studies show that the average golfer hits the 4W more reliably - and sometimes longer - than the 3W. A little extra loft re

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Let's start with Question 2:  3W is iffy, consider a 4W.

 

Several studies show that the average golfer hits the 4W more reliably - and sometimes longer - than the 3W. A little extra loft really improves launch, and a slightly shorter shaft is easier to control. 

 

From there, consider the other gap. If the 3H is reliable, add in a 4H.

 

A separate consideration would be mine: 4W + 7W (I've had some variation of this for 10 years). If you went with this, you might find the 4H gaps better than a 3H. In my case, the 3H and 7W pretty well match up on yardage.

 

Depends in part on what you prefer. Some golfers hit high-lofted fairways better than hybrids... others do better with multiple hybrids and one fairway. Side-by-side tests will tell.

 

Let us know what you decide!

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What's In The Bag (Summary as of October 2020)

 

Driver:  Tour Edge EXS 10.5°, weights neutral   ||  FWs:  Calla Rogue 4W + 7W

Hybrid:  Calla Big Bertha OS 4H at 22°  ||  Irons:  Tour Edge CB Pro Tungsten 4i-9i

Wedges*:  Calla MD3: 48°, 54°... MD4: 58° ||  Putter: Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced)

Ball: Calla SuperHot (Orange preferred)  ||  Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag

For details see:  Pending (need protocol to embed file list).

     * MD4 54°/10 S-Grind being tested as possible SW to replace MD3 54°/12 W-Grind.

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Depends how well you hit hybrids. For some, they are hook machines. If you hit your 3 hybrid well, then consider a 4 hybrid Ping G.  Otherwise you will need to find a fairway wood to hit that gap.  Finding a fairway wood for that exact distance might take some time and a lot of trial and error unless you trust the computer machines.

Edited by Texas Golfer
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Cobra Fly Z+, a permanent fixture 
Bridgestone J33 (3W,5W), also permanent,
Wilson Staff FG-51 (3-PW) or one of two other sets,

Northwestern Shot Saver (SW)  530 gram sand shovel,
Wilson Staff 8882 or something else

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Due to lack of playing practice and covid, my hand has jumped back up. I now play:

 

11* driver

16.5* 4w

21* h

23* driving iron

26* 5i  then down

 

I hit everything OK minus driver. Like you that spot was my heartache. Tried a second hybrid and too hooky. Tried a driving iron and it was more demanding. So took the u85, pulled the recoil and installed the same shaft of my set and cut it down to 3/8 from my 5i, swingweighted then glued. 

 

Its now one of my stronger parts of the game. 

Edited by Russ757
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15 hours ago, ehendy said:

I’ve been playing enough recently to know that my 4 iron is the least reliable club in the bag and it’s time to move on from it. 
 

I’m a 15 index so forgiveness trumps distance (and distance isn’t an issue for me relatively speaking). 
 

On average:

6 iron is a 185 club (total)

5 iron is a 200 club

**Gap to be filled**
3 Ping G hybrid (19*) is a 225 club

3 wood is Taylormade M4 (15*) is a 240 club (also debating a replacement here to find more consistency and better launch)

Driver is Ping G and carries 275 with 112 mph swing speed and 165 mph club speed

 

So, thoughts? Ping G 4 hybrid (22*) or try my hand with a 5 or 7 wood? Or something else entirely (especially if I drop the 3 wd too)? 
 

Many thanks!

Invest in golf lessons and not clubs. If your hitting them distances and still a 15 index something isn't right with your game. 

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28 minutes ago, belephant said:

I would question if you need a club between the 5i and hybrid for gapping purposes.  From 200+ yards I feel like 20ish yard gaps are fine- you’re better off choking down on the hybrid, or pulling the 5 if short is a better miss than long.  Rather than trying to find a perfect 4i or replacement that goes 215 yards, think about what shot (trajectory/shape particularly) would be a useful addition at the top of the bag for the courses you play often.  Maybe it’s a 7w, maybe it’s a 2i, maybe a mini driver... but I’d bet there’s more added value there than than just finding a 210-215 club

Fantastic point!

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59 minutes ago, belephant said:

I would question if you need a club between the 5i and hybrid for gapping purposes.  From 200+ yards I feel like 20ish yard gaps are fine- you’re better off choking down on the hybrid, or pulling the 5 if short is a better miss than long.  Rather than trying to find a perfect 4i or replacement that goes 215 yards, think about what shot (trajectory/shape particularly) would be a useful addition at the top of the bag for the courses you play often.  Maybe it’s a 7w, maybe it’s a 2i, maybe a mini driver... but I’d bet there’s more added value there than than just finding a 210-215 club

+1 for the high+low+shape shot-making setup over perfect gaps.  OP I have similar yardages to you, and playing on short courses I honestly don't run into a 200+ yd 2nd shot or par 3 all that often (yes, sometimes par 5s or if I screw up a tee shot, maybe one par 3).  When I do I'll work a shot with 4 hybrid or 5 wood or hard 6 iron.  I dropped 4 and 5 irons in favor of a super versatile 4H that I can knockdown to 5 iron range.  Since it's not exactly scoring distance I'm not too worried about the gap and would rather get shot-making creative in that range... all in favor of having all my tee and wedge options (D 3W 5W 3i 4H 6i, or D1 D2 5W 4H 5i, and always 4 wedges).  A gap can be filled by surrounding clubs IMO (and half-baggers and minimal people)!

 

If you choose 4 hybrid I'll suggest trying the same shaft and length as your 4 iron, then play with lead tape or weights to dial it in.

 

If you change out of 3 wood, the 4W 7W 4H may be as versatile a top end setup can be if you have the shots.

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D1 Adams XTD, 70M4X D2 Titleist TS2, D+72X 5W Titleist 915F, D+80X

3I Srixon Z 545 4H Adams S 9031 6I-PW Mizuno MP-54, C Taper Lite X

GW Nike VPC, Tour V X 54, 60 Cleveland CBX, DG S300 Cure CX3

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I’m planning on a hybrid/fw fitting at local club champion for $100. That should help with club and even shaft selection. I’d be surprised based on this feedback if I don’t drop the 3 wd and 4 iron after the fitting. 
 

I’m guessing I’ll land on a 5 or 7 wd (or similar hybrid) and a 4 hybrid to replace 3 wd and 4 iron. A baby driver setup is a fun idea too. Time will tell. Thanks! 

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I am in a similar situation, not sure of the best solution. I've been struggling with my 4 iron and I haven't been hitting hybrids well, keep drawing them too much or just plain missing. Keep seeing threads about 5 woods, might have to give that a shot. For OP it seems like a 4 hybrid would work, but if 3W consistency is a problem then dropping the 3W and hybrid for something to replace both could work too.

Honma 747 460 10.5*

Honma 747 3W 15*

Apex 19 3H 20*

Honma TW-X 4-11

Callaway MD4 56*, 60*

2017 O-Works #7

 

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On 4/24/2021 at 4:25 PM, ehendy said:

I’ve been playing enough recently to know that my 4 iron is the least reliable club in the bag and it’s time to move on from it. 
 

I’m a 15 index so forgiveness trumps distance (and distance isn’t an issue for me relatively speaking). 
 

On average:

6 iron is a 185 club (total)

5 iron is a 200 club

**Gap to be filled**
3 Ping G hybrid (19*) is a 225 club

3 wood is Taylormade M4 (15*) is a 240 club (also debating a replacement here to find more consistency and better launch)

Driver is Ping G and carries 275 with 112 mph swing speed and 165 mph club speed

 

So, thoughts? Ping G 4 hybrid (22*) or try my hand with a 5 or 7 wood? Or something else entirely (especially if I drop the 3 wd too)? 
 

Many thanks!

I’m a huge fan of the tour edge hybrids. Forgiving, good distance... best offering for a mid handicapper out there. 

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I have wasted far too long agonising over the top end of my bag trying to get perfect gaps right through the bag from driver to lob wedge and have gone though about 20 different clubs trying to achieve it. 

 

I spent too long trying to fill the top end of the bag with clubs that would hit off the tee into the widest and safest part of fairways but that was a poor plan due to ground conditions giving different roll out, variance in strike from that distance having the clubs blending into each other and weather conditions. Sometimes I was also leaving myself a much longer second shot than I really should have had and loosing shots because I was leaving too much work on the second shot. 

 

After looking at my shotscope data for the last 4 years I discovered that I hadn't hit my 5 iron at all at my home course, my 4 iron was only used off the tee and was costing me shots when I miss struck it out the toe and I was loosing most shots in the 110-130 range because I was manufacturing a shot at that yardage. 

 

I have simplified the top end and my tee shot strategy to driver, 3w, 21 hybrid. Dropped the 4 and 5 iron and put in a 23 hybrid lofted to 25 with a 4 iron shaft to match my irons cut down to 5 iron length. 

 

I then put in an extra wedge to plug the gap where I was loosing shots and give me more clubs in my second shot range I am left with that is usually in the 40-150 yard range. 

 

My yardages are now

 

Driver 285

3w 265

21 hybrid 235

23 hybrid 215

6i 195

7i 180

8i 165

9i 150

Pw 135

49 120

52 110

56 100

60 85

 

I find this works better for me and I am now scoring better, I have stopped trying to be too precise from 6i and longer because playing once a week how accurate can I really expect to be from 190+ out. From that yardage on or near the green is a good shot and I can take a little off the 23 hybrid or hit it a little harder to make the gaps either side of it. This is usually a second shot into a par 5 so all I am looking for is to give myself a chance of an easy birdie rather than knocking down the flag. 

 

All I was looking for from the top of the bag was getting 4 clubs I could confidently hit and were predictable in distance/shot shape. Its amazing how much easier the game becomes when you have a simplified approach to the long end of the bag. 

 

The short shafted lofted hybrid also has the added bonus of being a great little chipping club from bad lies, and because it feels so short I am comfortable taking a bit of yardage off it as it almost feels like a wedge to me. 

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10 hours ago, NotThatGuyorAmI? said:

 

What he said.  Or perhaps your stated distances are monitor distances.

 

Or possibly your game has been hampered by game improvement clubs.

 

What do you mean by forgiveness?  It used to mean high moi which supposedly keeps you near you normal distances with misfits.

By forgiveness I really mean consistency and confidence knowing I can “miss” some on swing and path and not be dead. My driver offers such forgiveness and therefore it’s one of my best clubs...mostly due to high confidence (and candidly I practice with it 80% more than a 3 wd).  

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5 hours ago, Alan Pllu said:

I have wasted far too long agonising over the top end of my bag trying to get perfect gaps right through the bag from driver to lob wedge and have gone though about 20 different clubs trying to achieve it. 

 

I spent too long trying to fill the top end of the bag with clubs that would hit off the tee into the widest and safest part of fairways but that was a poor plan due to ground conditions giving different roll out, variance in strike from that distance having the clubs blending into each other and weather conditions. Sometimes I was also leaving myself a much longer second shot than I really should have had and loosing shots because I was leaving too much work on the second shot. 

 

After looking at my shotscope data for the last 4 years I discovered that I hadn't hit my 5 iron at all at my home course, my 4 iron was only used off the tee and was costing me shots when I miss struck it out the toe and I was loosing most shots in the 110-130 range because I was manufacturing a shot at that yardage. 

 

I have simplified the top end and my tee shot strategy to driver, 3w, 21 hybrid. Dropped the 4 and 5 iron and put in a 23 hybrid lofted to 25 with a 4 iron shaft to match my irons cut down to 5 iron length. 

 

I then put in an extra wedge to plug the gap where I was loosing shots and give me more clubs in my second shot range I am left with that is usually in the 40-150 yard range. 

 

My yardages are now

 

Driver 285

3w 265

21 hybrid 235

23 hybrid 215

6i 195

7i 180

8i 165

9i 150

Pw 135

49 120

52 110

56 100

60 85

 

I find this works better for me and I am now scoring better, I have stopped trying to be too precise from 6i and longer because playing once a week how accurate can I really expect to be from 190+ out. From that yardage on or near the green is a good shot and I can take a little off the 23 hybrid or hit it a little harder to make the gaps either side of it. This is usually a second shot into a par 5 so all I am looking for is to give myself a chance of an easy birdie rather than knocking down the flag. 

 

All I was looking for from the top of the bag was getting 4 clubs I could confidently hit and were predictable in distance/shot shape. Its amazing how much easier the game becomes when you have a simplified approach to the long end of the bag. 

 

The short shafted lofted hybrid also has the added bonus of being a great little chipping club from bad lies, and because it feels so short I am comfortable taking a bit of yardage off it as it almost feels like a wedge to me. 

This is excellent. Confidence, predictability and consistency is what I need as a 30x a yr player too. I like the idea of not getting hung up on exact distance but rather have options for various needs (trajectory, roll, carry) and typical total distance. 

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Three wood is the hardest club in the bag to get correct.  I played a S2 H2 for years, then a Steelhead, then a Nickent.  Once the Nickent died I went on a search like no other for a 3 wood.  In the span of 7 years I bet I bought and traded around 25 three woods.  I am a highish speed player with a lowish launch.

 

IN the end a 16.5 4 wood turned down has cured all my woes.

 

As far as your other gap, a 25 yard gap between your hybrid and your 5 iron is fine.  As a 15 handicap you are not throwing darts from 225, 213, and 200 yards out.  You just want to be near the green or somewhere on it.   Most golfers at a 15 are not making solid enough contact often enough to worry about exact gappings, you may be a 15 that hits the ball solidly, but has the yips like crazy, and this could help.  However I have not seen many of those over the years.

 

If you absolutely think a club here rather than one on the bottom end is beneficial then you have answered your own question.  You second guessed your driver, three wood and long irons.  You didn't say a negative thing about your 19 hybrid, so that would be where I would start looking.  Something with 22 or 23 degrees of loft should be in that gap wheelhouse.

  • Driver - Epic Max LS
  • 4 Wood - Company that shall not be named, turned down 1* and open on a UST Mamaiya Black
  • 7 Wood - Company that shall not be named, turned down 1* and open on a UST Mamaiya Black
  • Hybrid - Ping G400 17*
  • Irons - Srixon ZX4 4 iron on Recoil 110
  • Irons - Srixon ZX5 5 iron on Recoil 110
  • Irons - Srixon ZX7 (6-PW) on Recoil 110
  • Wedges - Cleveland 50* mid Zipcore, Callaway MD5 54*, Cleveland Zipcore 60* Mid all on Recoil 110
  • Putters -  Sunset Beach Ocracoke or Mannkrafted MA/66
  • Ball - TP5 or Srixon Z Star 
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CC fitter put me in several shafts with a 4 hybrid (TSi2) with the heaviest of them all, a 95 gr KBS shaft being the best. This shaft was noticeably heavier than anything I have. Then we found a Taylormade SIM with that shaft was a much easier setup, but I was crushing it...250 total distance (more distance than my 3 hybrid and seemingly easier to square up and hit straight (fairway finder material)). 


Basically he thinks all my shafts but particularly my metals are flexing too much due to my club head speed (145 with hybrid) (96 swing speed). And therefore finding “square” is very difficult and inconsistent. 

 

He said he’d count today was a (free) trial and we setup another session now that he knows what we need to be working on with metals. Also, worth mentioning, I fought the shanks and hooks for 15 mins to start the fitting!  
 

I did hit 1 driver at the end and I smoked it, 296 total, but he said we could cut the spin down and get better consistency and add carry on it too.

 

I’m looking forward to seeing what’s next. I imagine he’ll recommend new (heavier and stiffer) shafts for my current driver and 3 hybrid. We will probably dial up a replacement for my 4 iron, but again, today’s best combo was better and longer than my current ping g *19 so there’s that. 

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Posted (edited)

I am similar to you in terms of distance and consistency, carrying a 10hcp right now. 

 

I picked up a driving iron (Cobra King) this past fall and it's been a revelation. 

 

I have the adjustable 3 iron and usually play it at 4 iron loft, 20.5 degrees.

 

It rocks off the tee and I can hit it better than my set 4i off the fairway. 

 

I've been toying with switching the 4i for a 5h, to maintain gapping while adding something for nasty lies. I don't find that I hit my 4i much if at all right now. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by chavycha

King F9 10.5, Hzrdus Smoke Black 60g stiff

King SZ 3 Wood @ 16, Hzrdus Smoke Yellow 70g stiff

King Utility Iron @ 20.5, Tour AD DI Hybrid 105X

Callaway Apex Pro 2019 Double Dot Tour Issue 4-PW, KBS Tour 120

Tommy Armour VCG 50/8, 56/12, 60/8, S200

Ping Craz-E

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13 hours ago, ehendy said:

CC fitter put me in several shafts with a 4 hybrid (TSi2) with the heaviest of them all, a 95 gr KBS shaft being the best. This shaft was noticeably heavier than anything I have. Then we found a Taylormade SIM with that shaft was a much easier setup, but I was crushing it...250 total distance (more distance than my 3 hybrid and seemingly easier to square up and hit straight (fairway finder material)). 


Basically he thinks all my shafts but particularly my metals are flexing too much due to my club head speed (145 with hybrid) (96 swing speed). And therefore finding “square” is very difficult and inconsistent. 

 

He said he’d count today was a (free) trial and we setup another session now that he knows what we need to be working on with metals. Also, worth mentioning, I fought the shanks and hooks for 15 mins to start the fitting!  
 

I did hit 1 driver at the end and I smoked it, 296 total, but he said we could cut the spin down and get better consistency and add carry on it too.

 

I’m looking forward to seeing what’s next. I imagine he’ll recommend new (heavier and stiffer) shafts for my current driver and 3 hybrid. We will probably dial up a replacement for my 4 iron, but again, today’s best combo was better and longer than my current ping g *19 so there’s that. 

If he is going that heavy....you are swinging out of your shoes 

 

Shanks & hooks? Swinging to hard 

 

Think you need to step back & assess your approach 

Ping Sunday Bag
9 Clubs of Freedom

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  • 2 weeks later...

The fitting (2nd attempt) was a huge success! I’ve replaced the 4 iron (215 desired yard club) with a 21* hybrid and my 3 wood (265 desired yard club) with a 16.5* 4 wood. As it worked out the TSi2 21* hybrid with a KBS Prototype Tour X 95 gram shaft was the clear winner. As for 4 wood it was a jump ball between two 16.5* woods, the TSi2 16.5* (winner) and Taylormade SIM Max 2 both with a Fujikura Motore X F3 7-S Stiff shaft. In both cases I gained comfort, confidence and, ball height and accuracy without giving up distance. 

38560D98-98BD-4733-8D19-E2C2C17193F8.jpeg

C393EBC9-B428-4CFE-A07C-78BA0C60E03C.jpeg

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