Miura Irons - do they outperform others?

[Valtiel]

21 hours ago, LowAndLeft32 said:

Thank you for the well thought out response.

 

So other than swing weight and total weight, how did you decide on the the Muiras and 588s?

 

Your fitting points really resonate with me. Most the the fitting from big box stores to high end fitters like Club Champion never have ever cared or measured me for total weight or swing weight. I have been recently thinking that i need to explore these two items in greater detail. Ive messed around with adding lead tape to see the impact/changes in ball flight. 

That is good to be messing around with those things as customizing your clubs to work best for you is a far better use of your time over getting caught up in thinking the magic is in a brand or a forging. Make no mistake, MOST of the magic is in fairly benign specs with the rest left up to very subjective things like aesthetics, grip size, sound etc etc. 

With regards to fitting, the problem is that a fit can only be as good as the fitter is experienced and/or the player is competent and aware of their own sense of feel. A proper fit is either a two way dialog between people speaking the same language, an extremely competent player guiding things because they know what feels right, or an equally extremely competent fitter that can tell by how a person swings and what their miss what sorts of things will work better for them. Regardless, all of these scenarios are uncommon when speaking of averages.

The other big problem is distance vs. consistency. Since most people are not really familiar enough with their swing and sense of feel to really get everything out a fitting, most places will just keep trying things until you either get into a groove and start hitting something well or there is a big jump in some sexy number somewhere. Once you get the superficial "a-ha!" moment, you feel like you've been fit, when in reality that is normally far from the case. Very few places are going to spend the time getting your specs dialed in to the nth degree if you don't care or are not good enough to see any benefit from that. They also likely operate under the jaded reality that longer = better to most people and any club that goes longer than their old one is less likely to get returned. 

This whole rant was to say that unfortunately there is little market for the time and effort it would take to truly give every single person the best fit, but I hope there can be. In the meantime it is a good idea to pursue tinkering yourself. You'll learn more and perhaps find the magic on your own!

[LowAndLeft32]

7 hours ago, RogerinNewZealand said:

Re Majic Club

ok.

In my 8 or so years here, buy 3 sets of irons a year usually,and rebuild 80% of them,spine align,add swing weight..regrip.My Mizuno MP100 are the mp33,s 2006ish and my Tourstage xblade901 are 2009.These are the softest sets of all my buy/sell over 8 years.May i courteously suggest,very calmly, that if you play off the rack, without rebuilding,reswingweighting and ummmm spine aligning, you have a small chance of Playing Your Best with your off the racks.So you are unlikely too find the Majic.I had a Ping tisi 5 wood long ago that was majic,grabbed a 906 to replace it.......majic lost.

So thats why you have to Build your Gear😊

Interesting feedback thanks. So how should  I choose which clubs rebuild swingweight and spine align? So which irons are you playing right now?  I guess I also need to learn how to build my own gear. 😊

[SwingMan]

Short answer - if you are looking for value, no. If you are looking for better performance - no

 

If you are looking for a unique feel - depends on what set you want. My experience with Miura goes back almost 20 yrs. The CB-201 had the feel of a very solid/dense iron - not soft like a Mizuno but more weighty/dense - it was like playing with a precise instrument. Some like it, others don't. Complaints dealt with turf interaction. I also played CB-301. I played their wedges,

 

Personally, I'd go with modern irons filled with tech - Callaway Apex, Mizuno. Cobra, Honma -  hollow body , CB or blades. But if you want expensive, well made to spec old school and not value, try a Miura.

Edited May 2, 2021 by SwingMan

[LowAndLeft32]

44 minutes ago, SwingMan said:

Short answer - if you are looking for value, no. If you are looking for better performance - no

 

If you are looking for a unique feel - depends on what set you want. My experience with Miura goes back almost 20 yrs. The CB-201 had the feel of a very solid/dense iron - not soft like a Mizuno but more weighty/dense - it was like playing with a precise instrument. Some like it, others don't. Complaints dealt with turf interaction. I also played CB-301. I played their wedges,

 

Personally, I'd go with modern irons filled with tech - Callaway Apex, Mizuno. Cobra, Honma -  hollow body , CB or blades. But if you want expensive old school and not value, then try a Miura

Good info. So then What irons are you gaming now? 

[SwingMan]

32 minutes ago, LowAndLeft32 said:

Good info. So then What irons are you gaming now? 

I need more forgiveness now. More senior player. I am playing MP-20 HMB and Accra 95g shafts. I am looking forward to seeing the MP-22 HMBs. The copper layer of the HMB makes a difference in feel in my comparison of the HMB with the 921F. Just wish the heads were heavier.

 

I also have an interest in Honma TR21X but need to see the offset, and the Apex Combo set. I do a lot of reading like everyone else but don't have time to try everything like some others. I'd love another set of Miuras but I don't see the value, which is subjective. If you've got the dough and time, I'd read a lot more, demo, and take your time finding a Miura, if interested.

Edited May 1, 2021 by SwingMan

[dayvei214]

Best way I can explain it is like wearing your favorite pair of shoes. Sure other shoes can get a job done but for whatever reason you just feel more comfortable in that pair. Golf is so mental after technique. If the iron boost your confidence and just as a whole feels like your favorite pair of shoes yes it's better. With that in mind however it can literally be any irons. Cast, forged, starter set, used set. The irons that are the best are the irons that are your favorite pair of shoes 

[theothertwo]

On 4/29/2021 at 7:21 PM, LowAndLeft32 said:

I often see discussion on the feel of Muira’s especially vs Mizzys. But from a true performance stand point are Muira’s at the top, worth the price, lead to improvement in ball striking, more consistent ball flight, better dispersion, or lower scores? 
 

It would be great to find a truly great iron that shows that it’s head and shoulders above the rest. Is Muira it? Will these irons stay in the bag for awhile? I played many different sets over the last five years and I haven’t found any irons that differ materially from another. 

I think Miura iron players rave about their true performance because most Miura irons are custom made and fitted by professional and authorized Miura delaers, I think it is the fitting that makes them perform exceptionally well, not so much the design.  Having said that, Miura irons and wedges are exceptionally made and all their published lofts and weights are right on spec so from that point of view and then add proper fitting, they will definitely perform better than off the rack unfitted irons.

Edited May 1, 2021 by theothertwo

[Righty to Lefty]

On 4/30/2021 at 4:18 PM, LowAndLeft32 said:

Thank you for the well thought out response.

 

So other than swing weight and total weight, how did you decide on the the Muiras and 588s?

 

Your fitting points really resonate with me. Most the the fitting from big box stores to high end fitters like Club Champion never have ever cared or measured me for total weight or swing weight. I have been recently thinking that i need to explore these two items in greater detail. Ive messed around with adding lead tape to see the impact/changes in ball flight. 

I am a lefty and thus I always have limited options in regards to clubs and so I got the Miuras some 10 years ago and initially really liked them  but I always wondered why I could never feel the club head in space as it moved around me.  Right handed I swing the driver at 105 mph and stock swing weight and total weight are for the most part suitable. Conversely  I swing the club at 129 mph left handed and stock swing weight and total weight feel like I am swinging a grip and a shaft.  As I grew frustrated I began to epoxy weights used to balance car tires onto my Miuras to figure out how much weight I needed to add to gain my desired swing weight.  I was surprised when I found that number to be 50 grams.  My friends thought I was crazy for "ruining" my Miuras by using them as test clubs and I told them that it didn't matter if I hated them cause I couldn't feel the club head.  

 

Once I knew what I needed in my clubs it was easy to manipulate a wood or hybrid with a drill and some hotmelt, or added adjustable weights.  I was initially scared to add that much weight to a wood so I did it in increments and then played the club for a few months and if the clubhead feel was lost over time I would add more and retest.  50 grams proved to be the amount needed  for all my clubs up to my fairway woods. My driver required 60 grams as it is a much bigger club head and took more weight to allow me to feel the club head tracking around me in space and that dense heavy impact.  I literally went from hitting all over the face to a very concentrated strike on most shots with very "heavy leverage" being created.   I will cave the face in on a fairway wood or retail driver after about 2 years but I did get 5 years out of my long drive XR16 club head because it had a thicker face and thus I gave up a lil bit of ball speed for 2.5 times the durability which I felt was a fair trade off.  

 

I ended up with the 588 altitudes simply because they were hollow and allowed me to drill a hole in the toe of them, which is the hardest part of the process because they are made of some very tough and durable steel, and then run hotmelt and tungsten powder into them to get them to my desired swing weight of F5.  Total weight and swing weight and have a dramatic effect on tempo and creation of leverage and it should match each golfers swing.  I was shocked at how many people commented on how " I don't even look like I am trying" when I hit a golf ball and that is something I never heard as a former baseball player who always looked to be a "hitter" of the ball with off the rack clubs.  I have since sent of my Miuras to have a V Sole ground into them and then I came up with a solution of JB welding weights used for pinewood derby cars to the toe section and now they have been restored to their former glory and I will never sell either set as they taught me so much. I can set up a golf club to my needs in a matter of minutes and I know that all these companies are putting out quality gear and I can make any of them suit my needs because I know what I am looking for in a club now.  This is especially useful as a lefty with already limited options available. No big box store or big box fitter will ever address these characteristics of a club build. They will just hope that you are so giddy that you are hitting this or that club that you hit something better on that given day and they make a sale. 

 

My  Miuras are pretty clubs but now their functions fits their form....my 588  Altitudes are not but they function equally as well and that is what matters to me so I play my  Miuras in GW through 8 iron, and my 588 Altitudes in 7 through 3 iron and when I hit a ball, especially with headphones on listening to music, I can't tell a difference at all between the two and the strike feels very similar with very slight audible differences. If I was getting clubs today I wouldn't get the Miuras and would go with a club such as the Srixon ZX4 that are actually hollow inside and don't have any foam or anything inside and I would hotmelt them up and be off and running...AND they already have the hotmelt port which eats up drill bits so that is one less headache!  I would still play the Altitudes in my mid and long irons because they just flat out work.  I ventured out of my  comfort zone and found out that I am far from stock in regards to what I need in a golf club and I think most would find the same thing if they experimented more but to each his/her own.  R to L

[craz-e]

On 5/1/2021 at 9:29 AM, lefthack said:

I just can't get over that top line. My smashed steel don't have any tech, but they have boat loads of feel.

 

 

That is a lot of offset 😳

[bvanlieu]

I game a mix of CB and Hollow irons for my standard bag, but picked up some Miuras used for a song 2 years ago as a fun/sunday/holiday set. I grew up with blades, and while the MB's were tempting I did go with the CB1008s for some help being realistic about my game and strike patterns. 

 

As described by others, they don't change my game and if I want a bit of help to lower score the maximum amount, I should be gaming some newer P770/Cally/PXG style players tech clubs entirely. Miuras do feel unique (dense, solid) look amazing to my eye, and just make me smile when playing them. It is interesting when going back to my P770 CBs, how the 770s looks bigger (they are not much, its just the top line effect)

 

Whatever club makes you do that (Miura, TW Blades, Staff, Ping Eye 2, SuperShovels) I fully support buying and gaming. 

 

Separate from their irons, Miura makes a lovely wedge if you like the grind/look. Thank you  BST....thank you.

 

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by bvanlieu

[lefthack]

2 hours ago, craz-e said:

That is a lot of offset 😳

 

Guess that's why they made the ZO? Works perfectly for me and the offset is the same as my CB's so the set blends perfect as well.

 

[bg3putts]

A friend of mine was engineer at Ping when the S59 iron came to market, the conversation was would a forged model of this club be worth the investment. Ping had Miura build a few sets of forged irons to look exactly like the Ping S59 except for the finish and during the Phoenix Open many of the Ping staffers were given the opportunity to hit these clubs but were not told they were forged. Not a single tour player could tell that these were not the stock cast version S59. That tells me it is not the material the club is made from that makes a difference, the design of the iron is the key.

[lefthack]

29 minutes ago, bg3putts said:

A friend of mine was engineer at Ping when the S59 iron came to market, the conversation was would a forged model of this club be worth the investment. Ping had Miura build a few sets of forged irons to look exactly like the Ping S59 except for the finish and during the Phoenix Open many of the Ping staffers were given the opportunity to hit these clubs but were not told they were forged. Not a single tour player could tell that these were not the stock cast version S59. That tells me it is not the material the club is made from that makes a difference, the design of the iron is the key.

 

I would say it is less about the design and more about the casting process. Ping has been casting club heads forever and as such has perfected the process to the point where cast has the same or similar feel to forged.

 

Or Ping staffers lack feelings. 🤣

[SwooshLT]

On 4/30/2021 at 9:21 AM, LowAndLeft32 said:

But I want that magic club! I keep chasing and haven't found it. Maybe I will learn one day that magic clubs don't exist. Haha 

 

I FOUND them! PING I210!  lol

[Tufph]

I've gone from miura baby blades, miura tournament blades, mizzy mp58, titliest 714 cb, miura cb57, AP2, to Zx7.

Miuras feel better than anything else on the board imo. Ball speed is pretty much on par with most player irons.

When I look back to my timeline of clubs, the younger me wanted the sleek soft feeling miuras. A few years later started looking for more forgiving. I'm still trying to find the balance between forgiveness and feel. And the search will probably continue. 

So does miuras out perform? Probably could with a good fitter. But why stick with one model or brand. So many clubs to try out there.

[Avidswampthing66]

15 hours ago, SwooshLT said:

 

I FOUND them! PING I210!  lol

 Ping i210 keeps popping up in my life.  Does this mean...they have found me??  I need to hit these irons.  Nothing but good things have i heard!

[SwooshLT]

8 hours ago, Avidswampthing66 said:

 Ping i210 keeps popping up in my life.  Does this mean...they have found me??  I need to hit these irons.  Nothing but good things have i heard!

 

I'm the consummate iron.....well equipment swapped......lefty so it really gets kinda difficult 

I tried Anser forged years ago and a very similar performance marker was seen.....shaft was wrong and I wouldn't take the time to get it right.....heads were great mind you......fast-forward to introduction of i500/i210......a year or so after iblade......hit the demo 7i ; loved everything about the club but really (at that time) thought iblade was more my cup of tea.......yet after owning them the feel lacked that forged sensation I craved and weren't as soft feeling as i210s.....went back to forged combos but the long irons all were CLACKY to me. 

After my own research, pulling the demo 7i back out, success of the eclectic Tour staff AND Ping's own admission that these are great product with its lack of successor......I went back on the hunt.

 

@Hot Rod 71 just happened to have a lefty set 4-U and the rest is history......

73 1st round out with 14 greens and no true errant shots, I'M SMITTEN!  

 

Sorry for the extended story but tough for this old guy to contain himself....

[lefthack]

As a lefty I wish for a "lefty demo day" or something where I could try a number of clubs back to back. I'd settle for 5 different 7 irons. But to this day I've only hit irons I've already paid for prior to hitting. So my list if irons I've hit still fit on one hand.

 

I know, poor me. 🤣 

[caeye0710]

It's all opinionated, right? There are guys out there who think Miura is the best performing as well as guys who are loyal to Titleist, TM, Mizzy, etc. 

 

I'm the typical WRXer that changes equipment like I change my clothes: often. I've had a set of MB001, MB101, and TC201. I had great rounds with all three of them, but I can't personally say they ever "stood out" to me over the other things I've tinkered with like P7TW, Apex Pro, T100, etc. My personal opinion is that if I compared the P7TW to the MB101, I'd take the P7TW all day, every day based off look, feel, and performance. 

 

If I compared the TC201 to a similar iron, I'd take the TC201. It depends on the scenario.

 

There are plenty of guys who think the opposite. 

 

Short version: if you like Miura and they perform the best, then get em. 

[edapp]

My experience as a ~8 index is this: I bought a half set of MB101's because they look amazing and I don't play for money. 

My previous full set which they partially replaced was the pxg 0211 set which I quite liked. I had to spend a lot of time on the range before I started hitting the miuras consistently, but now that I do I am hitting significantly better shots, and different shots than I ever used to hit (now my standard shot is a draw vs always hitting a fade). I can confidently hit a low/high draw and a low/high fade when I want to, and better control my distances. Now this is 100% attributed to more time on the range, for sure. But these clubs are beautiful and they make me want to go hit them! I have a pw-8 in the bag now, and am working my way towards putting the 7 and 6 in the bag. I still have the pxg long irons in the bag and when I need them on the course they look huge and massively forgiving, and I am hitting them better than ever. 

Did the miruas make me a better golfer? no. Did they make me practice to hit them well vs a game improvement iron? Yes. Do I love them? YES. 

Bottom line is I am one of those form over function guys sometimes... and I love the way these look. I am not good enough, or don't care enough about my scores to go get fitted and make sure I am hitting the best irons for me. But I am hitting these better than I have ever hit my irons before. One day I would love to have a complete set of the mb101s in the bag and be able to hit them well... I would be proud to hit them well. 

[tdelam]

I bought my first set of Miura's this year. I am a lefty so the options are pretty slim but I ordered a brand new set of 4-PW CB-801's directly from Miura last December. It took a month and a half to make them, build them, and ship them. I've shot some of my lower scores with them and consistently hit them better than my other irons. I do prefer the feel of them over other irons. Does this mean they outperform? I wouldn't say the club outperformed but they fit my eye and feel more balanced than anything I have played in the past. 

[LowAndLeft32]

3 hours ago, tdelam said:

I bought my first set of Miura's this year. I am a lefty so the options are pretty slim but I ordered a brand new set of 4-PW CB-801's directly from Miura last December. It took a month and a half to make them, build them, and ship them. I've shot some of my lower scores with them and consistently hit them better than my other irons. I do prefer the feel of them over other irons. Does this mean they outperform? I wouldn't say the club outperformed but they fit my eye and feel more balanced than anything I have played in the past. 

Did you hit them before buying them? 

[tdelam]

Just now, LowAndLeft32 said:

Did you hit them before buying them? 

 

Never. I took a chance. Glad I did, best set of irons I've owned

 

 

[lefthack]

3 hours ago, tdelam said:

I bought my first set of Miura's this year. I am a lefty so the options are pretty slim but I ordered a brand new set of 4-PW CB-801's directly from Miura last December. It took a month and a half to make them, build them, and ship them. I've shot some of my lower scores with them and consistently hit them better than my other irons. I do prefer the feel of them over other irons. Does this mean they outperform? I wouldn't say the club outperformed but they fit my eye and feel more balanced than anything I have played in the past. 

 

I really want a CB/MB combo set. I could totally do a full CB set, but I really want the MB's.

 

 

[tdelam]

Just now, lefthack said:

 

I really want a CB/MB combo set. I could totally do a full CB set, but I really want the MB's.

 

Yeah, those are nice! The CB-801's are pretty small. I can only imagine the MB's are tiny lol..

 

 

[TiScape]

3 hours ago, tdelam said:

I bought my first set of Miura's this year. I am a lefty so the options are pretty slim but I ordered a brand new set of 4-PW CB-801's directly from Miura last December. It took a month and a half to make them, build them, and ship them. I've shot some of my lower scores with them and consistently hit them better than my other irons. I do prefer the feel of them over other irons. Does this mean they outperform? I wouldn't say the club outperformed but they fit my eye and feel more balanced than anything I have played in the past. 

Googled Miura 801s after reading your post. Instantly thought Nike proto split cavity CBs made by Miura. Great heads. 

[lefthack]

20 minutes ago, tdelam said:

 

Yeah, those are nice! The CB-801's are pretty small. I can only imagine the MB's are tiny lol..

 

 

 

Yeah, those look fantastic. To be honest, I think size wise they are the same. So clean, very nice 

[tdelam]

1 minute ago, lefthack said:

 

Yeah, those look fantastic. To be honest, I think size wise they are the same. So clean, very nice 

 

The pics don't do it justice. But, yes, probably same size. I haven't seen Miura MB's in person, I would love to try them one day though!

[lefthack]

4 minutes ago, tdelam said:

 

The pics don't do it justice. But, yes, probably same size. I haven't seen Miura MB's in person, I would love to try them one day though!

 

When you look at my KZG blades, they look small. But next to the CB's they are almost exact and actually look exactly the same at address. The Miura's look similar in pics.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by lefthack

[tdelam]

Just now, lefthack said:

 

When you look at my ZKG blades, they look small. But next to the CB's they are almost exact and actually look exactly the same at address. The Miuras look similar in pics.

 

 

 

 

 

yah, they actually do. I think those are the older CB's but I am sure they're the same for the most part!