Need to go back to no fans at tournaments. The idiots are back with a vengeance.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

13 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

You have to come to the reality that golf is a real sport now. Fans yell and act really stupid at live events. Not saying that it's good or bad just reality.

That's accepting defeat and giving in to the lowest common denominator. Demand Zero tolerance, throw a few out, make them examples and the problem is vastly reduced. 

[HackDaddy360]

49 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

You have to come to the reality that golf is a real sport now. Fans yell and act really stupid at live events. Not saying that it's good or bad just reality.

This is the stance of a realist IMO. 
 

growing the game brings a lot of people into it who maybe don’t “get it” like others do.  This includes pace of play, general etiquette, attire, etc. 
 

Again, I think some of this does change despite it getting worse.  Part of that happens with a few people getting booted or players getting pissed and some fans doing some self-regulating.  I’m the outlier here as the part of it that gets me is the heckling, being physically or intentionally trying to distract a player.  None of that is ok and interferes with the competition - never mind the basic etiquette of the game.  
 

Mashed Potato guy is pretty harmless in my mind, however. 

[geakins]

I fear we are literally 5 years away from scenes like. 

 

Who knew Happy Gilmore would foretell the future of golf!! One side note, usually the guys that cause the most issues are the same ones who when playing with their buds get bent out of shape at the slightest things and always complain and want their "do over" because of other people not respecting them as they try to hit. I am all about growing the game, I just hope it is done with some form of respect, dignity, and integrity. 

 

Just my two pennies. 

[Ferguson]

18 hours ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

That's accepting defeat and giving in to the lowest common denominator. Demand Zero tolerance, throw a few out, make them examples and the problem is vastly reduced. 

 

Good idea, but they can't police everything. 

 

This is a cultural issue. 

 

 

Look at me. 

Listen to me. 

My shouting is important. 

Hey Dustin, "Heirloom Crushed Potatoes Drizzled with Hand-reared Garlic and Rosemary Artisanal Olive-oil"

I can't replay it for my "friended" people on social media. 

Many hits means people like me.    

 

[Hawkeye77]

34 minutes ago, Ferguson said:

 

Good idea, but they can't police everything. 

 

This is a cultural issue. 

 

 

Look at me. 

Listen to me. 

My shouting is important. 

Hey Dustin, "Heirloom Crushed Potatoes Drizzled with Hand-reared Garlic and Rosemary Artisanal Olive-oil"

I can't replay it for my "friended" people on social media. 

Many hits means people like me.    

 

I'm firmly straddling this fence, lol.  Definitely a cultural issue fueled by the ease with which the behavior can be recorded, replayed, shared almost immediately, but darn it - got to start somewhere and zero tolerance can work - somehow The Masters (so far the apparent outlier, but I don't notice as much of this crap at The Open Championship, maybe because it's so windy and sometimes cold, lol) commands the respect of the patrons.  Is it no cell phones at Augusta?  Can't hurt, still think that was a huge mistake by the Tour to allow them and interference with phones happens over and over and gives someone the chance to catch that "special taunting moment".  Is it knowledge that you mess around there and you are out forever? I don't know.  Maybe it's the no running. 😀

Edited June 9, 2021 by Hawkeye77

[Ferguson]

19 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

I'm firmly straddling this fence, lol.  Definitely a cultural issue fueled by the ease with which the behavior can be recorded, replayed, shared almost immediately, but darn it - got to start somewhere and zero tolerance can work - somehow The Masters (so far the apparent outlier, but I don't notice as much of this crap at The Open Championship, maybe because it's so windy and sometimes cold, lol) commands the respect of the patrons.  Is it no cell phones at Augusta?  Can't hurt, still think that was a huge mistake by the Tour to allow them and interference with phones happens over and over and gives someone the chance to catch that "special taunting moment".  Is it knowledge that you mess around there and you are out forever? I don't know.  Maybe it's the no running. 😀

 

There are unwritten rules about proper behavior in public that most people understand and follow.  We are taught this by watching family and friends growing up.  Imposing more rules to those not having this moral compass will only fuel the fire.  They live their lives in defiance. 

 

I think the networks should delay the open mics 2 seconds in order to edit the "after-shot" reaction.  With no audience, the yelling should decrease.  I doubt it will ever be eliminated.  

 

[Titleist99]

If yelling at a tour event was a problem the Networks could easily mute or delay but then again that wouldn't be a totally live event. This behavior is promoted during a President Cup, Ryder Cup and Waste Management event so I'm not to bothered when a few fans get a little tipsy and yell after the shot during a regular tournament.

 

[mosesgolf]

Every sport has idiot fans. Unruly golf fans PALE in comparison to NBA fans who have recently been throwing water bottles at players and have a history of verbally abusing players families. Ja Morant's family is a recent example. Or how about what the fans were yelling at the US goalie between the soccer match between US and Mexico plus dozens of water bottle thrown at players which struck them in the face.  Or what about soccer fans in Europe and what they yell at players which are HATE filled.  Golf fans are pansies in comparison. 

Getting kicked out for yelling "Brooksie" omg!!!!

[BlackDiamondPar5]

1 hour ago, mosesgolf said:

Every sport has idiot fans. Unruly golf fans PALE in comparison to NBA fans who have recently been throwing water bottles at players and have a history of verbally abusing players families. Ja Morant's family is a recent example. Or how about what the fans were yelling at the US goalie between the soccer match between US and Mexico plus dozens of water bottle thrown at players which struck them in the face.  Or what about soccer fans in Europe and what they yell at players which are HATE filled.  Golf fans are pansies in comparison. 

Getting kicked out for yelling "Brooksie" omg!!!!

I'll respond with what I posted elsewhere.  We are seeing an acceleration toward problem fans across the board.  Long term I don't see how it doesn't get worse unless checked back.  If it gets worse I don't see how it can be good for golf. 

 

Even if you set aside any traditions from decades past that drive behavioral expectations of fans, golf is far different from other sports.  Golf continues to be unique in that it gives fans unprecedented close access to the golfers.  There are no strong physical barriers such as; plexiglass, boards, concrete barriers, rails set in concrete , chain-link fences etc.  There are no security forces that surround and guard the action of play.  Golf fans are often just a few feet from the golfer, making it a much more intimate and personal experience than attending other sports.  It should be viewed as a privilege, not a right and a license to act like a buffoon. 

 

In the past there was always a natural force, probably driven by respect and human decency, to treat that space as an invisible barrier between the fan and the golfer.  What we've seen over the last couple of decades is a significant degradation of that barrier.   That combined with fan engagement in the tensions (real or fake) between Brooks and Bryson, I fear we are headed toward things getting out of hand.  Once things get out of hand, perhaps a golfer even assaulted on the course, I can guarantee you that fans will lose that privilege of close access.  I don't see how letting a tiny minority ruin it for everyone else is going to benefit golf in the long run.

 

What's going on in the NBA right now is just an escalation of tolerated past behavior.  It's disgusting and people need to stop acting like a bunch of entitled, obnoxious jerks.

Edited June 9, 2021 by BlackDiamondPar5

[chillybilly]

1 hour ago, Titleist99 said:

If yelling at a tour event was a problem the Networks could easily mute or delay but then again that wouldn't be a totally live event. This behavior is promoted during a President Cup, Ryder Cup and Waste Management event so I'm not to bothered when a few fans get a little tipsy and yell after the shot during a regular tournament.

 

 

It already isn't a 'totally live event' according to the standard cited since the boom mics are often cut or muted to avoid airing profanity...from the players themselves.  The edits are quite audible and obvious.  But even without these there is typically a delay just as there is in 'live' radio for preemptive dumping if and when a profanity - even from an announcer or a host himself - is uttered however inadvertently.

 

It may be a stretch to say that such behavior is 'promoted' as in actively and explicitly advocated.  Phoenix no doubt plays up the yayhoo angle with its incessant promotion of the 16th hole circus but the Ryder Cup/Presidents Cup organizers don't seem to overtly encourage the idiocy except, perhaps with the usual references to rivalries, showdowns, etc.  And, of course, broadcasters regularly dumb things down and present every event as a gladiatorial contest regardless of the sport or number of participants.  To hear NBC tell it,  Simone Biles will be participating in gymnastics, track, field, weightlifting, swimming and, er, modern pentathlon.  NBC et al don't use the phrase 'the hated Europeans' but the implication is certainly obvious.  For this reason alone I prefer to stream the UK coverage as a refuge from the incessant jingoism.

 

The fans in question are well past 'a little tipsy.'  YouTube, the hive of all stupidity caught on ubiquitous camera phones, has numerous videos of golf 'fans,' especially in Phoenix, unable to walk a few steps without toppling over.  Having attended dozens of events in person over the past decade or so, the 'a little tipsy' types are often outnumbered by the 'half-kicked in the a**' contingent.

 

Finally, it would be a blessing and a miracle if the shouters actually waited until 'after the shot.'  But, clearly, they do not.  Their screams and moronic phrases commence with the club contacting the ball, even a little prior to.  It may seem futile or repetitive to say it but 'get in the hole' at a par 4 or 5 tee is not only annoying but physically impossible.  And still annoying on a par 3.

 

A weekend twosome in a PGA Tour event, especially a TV pairing, typically consists of

2 players

2 caddies

1 standard bearer

1 observer/official

1 or 2 ShotLink types

1 or 2 private security

1 or 2 police, growing to 4 or 5 for stars like McIlroy, especially if he's in contention.

 

And, of course, there are others outside the ropes in official capacities.

 

Security & police are the proverbial deterrents but that doesn't mean they can't or shouldn't point out and remove the full-throated screamers.  Such action would have an immediate calming effect by removing the loud ones, another immediate calming effect on anyone else tempted to scream and a much-needed knock-on effect by having word spread that idiocy won't go unnoticed or unpunished.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 9, 2021 by chillybilly

[OldCuss]

There is this organizing principle that suggests controlling variance at its earlist occurence given it widens from that point. My wife has been following it for decades with me - only have to think about sumpin and then, well, don't think about enough then to do it. Not sure how she communicates with the dog, but he commences shamin' me and instead of jumping up on the bench for me to put his walking harness on him, I got to pick him up and place him on the bench and then on the floor. Given an old back I do what I can to not think about the wrong things.

 

We have cats, lots of them. Started out with three, then a fourth visited, was fed, then stayed, and now we are currently up to nine. Mailperson is getting noticably stronger after delivering cat food. One cat when new was particularly mean in the beginning to the other cats; he looks like, thus we call him, Hitler. After making him eat alone, he has moderated his behavior and is now tolerable and some days there are thoughts of re-naming him - yet for now we still keep an eye on the Mein Kampf Kid. All strays, feral, some not much for being touched but all pleasant enough and a joy to have around (but birds, squirrels, and snakes are not of the same mind thus they will find other places to do bird, squirrel, and snake stuff). My dog is sweet on one of the feral strays, thus we have hope, romantic notion I suppose, for a peaceable kingdom (but with fewer birds, squirrels, and snakes).

 

Old Cuss

[Soloman1]

 

 

The mothers and grandmothers of the yahoo fans must be so proud of how their boys turned out.

[Greg_B]

I'm so old I remember when the galleries in golf were often commented upon by TV announcers and others as being notably different from fans of other sporting events in terms of decorum and politeness in their behavior at tournaments. I think the '91 Ryder Cup started that change and by the time of the first US Open at Bethpage to arse had totally gone out if it.

[Amps]

I like the idea of muting the mics on the crowd, that would be a way more pleasant viewing experience, and yeah, might discourage the shouting in the long run... that and tasers, really high voltage tasers. 

[bcski]

On 6/8/2021 at 10:37 AM, Titleist99 said:

You have to come to the reality that golf is a real sport now. Fans yell and act really stupid at live events. Not saying that it's good or bad just reality.

I agree.  This is just the current state of golf's evolution to becoming a MAINSTREAM SPORT.

 

Compare the golf fan dress, actions, and behavior from 1920 to 2020...  It has steadily changed and evolved,  I'm not saying it is for the better or worse, just that there has been an evolution.  In 50-70 years the PGA may be able to draw the kind of crowds football and MLB draw.  Players could actually be paid somewhat equitably to players in those sports to.    

 

The top tier players have also evolved along the same lines of the fans.  Again not saying they like or dislike the atmosphere.  Just that they are able to play and life goes on.

 

Again this is just the evolution of golf slowly moving to a mainstream sport for the masses.  The history and timeline show these changes happening...

Edited June 12, 2021 by bcski
typo

[ZAP]

First rule of classroom management.  You promote what you allow.  I do not fully understand who these people are knowing that most reasonable people I know detest such behavior.

 

I agree with the above posters who said it is a cultural issue.  Today's biggest commodity seems to be attention and in order to get that you have to act like a bigger tool than the last guy.  I am not totally sure where it ends up but I am sure it is not going to be pretty.

[Fairways_and_Greens]

Just need one golfer to go full Artest and it will sort itself out.

[RSinSG]

On 6/10/2021 at 4:31 AM, Greg_B said:

I'm so old I remember when the galleries in golf were often commented upon by TV announcers and others as being notably different from fans of other sporting events in terms of decorum and politeness in their behavior at tournaments.

 

This isn't just golf. I remember when I used to enjoy flying commercial. Get to the airport early to relax in the gate area and get on the plane along with the other nicely dressed passengers. Quiet relaxing flight that included a meal. Now it's something to avoid at all costs. Once you actually get through the gauntlet to get to the plane its like riding in an old Greyhound Bus full of derelicts that just left the downtown Los Angeles Skid Row terminal.

 

While I'm old enough to wax nostalgic about the "good 'ole days" I also remember they weren't so good for a lot of people. However in general, people were a little more courteous to others in past years.  There is another thread about professional sports and several of us posted that we stopped going due to the fans. They have made it a not enjoyable experience that I don't choose to spend my money on. Golf risks alienating a lot of ticket purchasers if they continue to ignore the situation. 

[tiderider]

22 minutes ago, RSinSG said:

 

This isn't just golf. I remember when I used to enjoy flying commercial. Get to the airport early to relax in the gate area and get on the plane along with the other nicely dressed passengers. Quiet relaxing flight that included a meal. Now it's something to avoid at all costs. Once you actually get through the gauntlet to get to the plane its like riding in an old Greyhound Bus full of derelicts that just left the downtown Los Angeles Skid Row terminal.

 

While I'm old enough to wax nostalgic about the "good 'ole days" I also remember they weren't so good for a lot of people. However in general, people were a little more courteous to others in past years.  There is another thread about professional sports and several of us posted that we stopped going due to the fans. They have made it a not enjoyable experience that I don't choose to spend my money on. Golf risks alienating a lot of ticket purchasers if they continue to ignore the situation. 

deftly & accurately stated ... 

[mizunoMP14]

The easiest solution is to just not have fans so close to the tee boxes.  90% of the stupid things said are on the tee.   Move them back or no fans around the tees at all.   Watching approach shots from the fairway or around the greens they are not close enough to make an impact.  

[bcski]

On 6/12/2021 at 4:37 PM, bcski said:

I agree.  This is just the current state of golf's evolution to becoming a MAINSTREAM SPORT.

 

Compare the golf fan dress, actions, and behavior from 1920 to 2020...  It has steadily changed and evolved,  I'm not saying it is for the better or worse, just that there has been an evolution.  In 50-70 years the PGA may be able to draw the kind of crowds football and MLB draw.  Players could actually be paid somewhat equitably to players in those sports to.    

 

The top tier players have also evolved along the same lines of the fans.  Again not saying they like or dislike the atmosphere.  Just that they are able to play and life goes on.

 

Again this is just the evolution of golf slowly moving to a mainstream sport for the masses.  The history and timeline show these changes happening...

I think you are on to something here.  The changes have been slow and have happened.

 

I miss the old days when I was a kid in the early 70's with respectful fans, though...

[HappyGilmoresBoots]

On 6/8/2021 at 10:19 PM, geakins said:

I fear we are literally 5 years away from scenes like. 

 

Who knew Happy Gilmore would foretell the future of golf!! One side note, usually the guys that cause the most issues are the same ones who when playing with their buds get bent out of shape at the slightest things and always complain and want their "do over" because of other people not respecting them as they try to hit. I am all about growing the game, I just hope it is done with some form of respect, dignity, and integrity. 

 

Just my two pennies. 

Gotta put Bryson in some *checks my own username* uh, boots, and a Boston Bruins jersey!

 

Anyway, what is the meaning behind "baba booey," "mashed potatoes," and "get in the hole?"  What is the context that these are shouted in?

[Quasimoto]

Well in my opinion it all started with Animal House. Great movie, but not reality. So many did not realize that and wanted to act it out in their own way. Now, after a steady stream of drivel movies along that same vein, including Happy G, we are left with a cultural shift of me, me, me, anything goes wherever I go.

Take a pristine wilderness and build a golf course there and there will be hundreds of as*hats that throw beer cans and  garbage in the trees. 

Then these same people will join a protest against greenhouse gases. 

The world is definitely not getting to be a better place with these Hollywood mimics running around.

Glad I won’t be here in 20 years, I feel like people over 65 now got the best overall life in history during our lives and it is now regressing toward Mad Max.

[Greg_B]

I have been developing a theory about the general regression of Western society.  When I was a kid, we gave up reading comic books in our early teens. Now comic book characters are what keeps the movie business afloat. TV shows used to be well written and cleverly scripted; today, it is masked singers and Lego competitions.  We used to read books for entertainment and to pass the time; now we play violent computer games. We are circling the drain. 

[RobotDoctor]

1 hour ago, Quasimoto said:

Well in my opinion it all started with Animal House. Great movie, but not reality. So many did not realize that and wanted to act it out in their own way. Now, after a steady stream of drivel movies along that same vein, including Happy G, we are left with a cultural shift of me, me, me, anything goes wherever I go.

Take a pristine wilderness and build a golf course there and there will be hundreds of as*hats that throw beer cans and  garbage in the trees. 

Then these same people will join a protest against greenhouse gases. 

The world is definitely not getting to be a better place with these Hollywood mimics running around.

Glad I won’t be here in 20 years, I feel like people over 65 now got the best overall life in history during our lives and it is now regressing toward Mad Max.

 

I can definitely agree with Happy Gilmore.   I don't agree with Animal House.  Animal House was a different kind of humor as the humor in it was a bit more developed, maybe a bit juvenile, but a bit more sophisticated.  Happy Gilmore and movies like that are stupid humor aimed at the cheap laugh. 

Sad regarding the lack of respect for nature.  Those who treat nature like their personal garbage can are absolute morons who don't deserve this great gift.

Hollywood ..... I don't even want to talk about that cesspool.

 

Those of us in our mid 50s also remember a different time and have come to miss it as well. 

Cheers! 

[bladehunter]

On 6/12/2021 at 9:41 PM, RSinSG said:

 

This isn't just golf. I remember when I used to enjoy flying commercial. Get to the airport early to relax in the gate area and get on the plane along with the other nicely dressed passengers. Quiet relaxing flight that included a meal. Now it's something to avoid at all costs. Once you actually get through the gauntlet to get to the plane its like riding in an old Greyhound Bus full of derelicts that just left the downtown Los Angeles Skid Row terminal.

 

While I'm old enough to wax nostalgic about the "good 'ole days" I also remember they weren't so good for a lot of people. However in general, people were a little more courteous to others in past years.  There is another thread about professional sports and several of us posted that we stopped going due to the fans. They have made it a not enjoyable experience that I don't choose to spend my money on. Golf risks alienating a lot of ticket purchasers if they continue to ignore the situation. 

1000 %. It’s not just golf. I once loved baseball.  I once loved concerts. I once loved racetracks. 

[bladehunter]

2 hours ago, Greg_B said:

I have been developing a theory about the general regression of Western society.  When I was a kid, we gave up reading comic books in our early teens. Now comic book characters are what keeps the movie business afloat. TV shows used to be well written and cleverly scripted; today, it is masked singers and Lego competitions.  We used to read books for entertainment and to pass the time; now we play violent computer games. We are circling the drain.  
 

agree wholeheartedly.   

Edited June 15, 2021 by bladehunter

[physasst]

17 hours ago, Greg_B said:

I have been developing a theory about the general regression of Western society.  When I was a kid, we gave up reading comic books in our early teens. Now comic book characters are what keeps the movie business afloat. TV shows used to be well written and cleverly scripted; today, it is masked singers and Lego competitions.  We used to read books for entertainment and to pass the time; now we play violent computer games. We are circling the drain. 

I disagree. Depending on what you are watching, I think some of the best TV shows have been in the past few years. Game of Thrones, Outlander, Black Sails....I could go on.

[JohnnyCashForever]

21 hours ago, Greg_B said:

I have been developing a theory about the general regression of Western society.  When I was a kid, we gave up reading comic books in our early teens. Now comic book characters are what keeps the movie business afloat. TV shows used to be well written and cleverly scripted; today, it is masked singers and Lego competitions.  We used to read books for entertainment and to pass the time; now we play violent computer games. We are circling the drain. 

+100.  Frankly, I'm surprised this post hasn't been "moderated" yet.  Sauron must be distracted.  

[Greg_B]

3 hours ago, physasst said:

I disagree. Depending on what you are watching, I think some of the best TV shows have been in the past few years. Game of Thrones, Outlander, Black Sails....I could go on.

All those shows are dark, fantasy-based, and usually have excess violence. They are part of the problem.