Bounce is your friend

[Saltydawg15]

We have all heard this, but I venture to say that 99% of golfers don’t know how to use the bounce. I say that because I thought I did and wonder why they called it my friend since it didn’t work that often for me.

 

I recently learned how to use the bounce after working on my sand game and taking lessons, but it was an old video of Seve on how to play out of the sand that made the light turn on. 
 

I used to open the face but when making contact I would turn over my right hand thinking I was releasing the club but I was exposing the leading edge. Seve discussed your right hand following the club and not turning over and walla my short game is the best part of my game and I’m deadly out of the sand. 
 

I bring this up because I know many suffer around the green and taking an hr lesson the pro generally misses this simple point. Once you figure it out, it’s amazing.

 

I hope this helps somebody. 

[MelloYello]

I had a similar revelation back when I was learning the short game. I remember the moment that it clicked. I even remember where I was. 

 

Short game is unique in that way. Once you discover how to use bounce to your advantage, the whole short game becomes infinitely more manageable. Touch becomes so much easier to achieve, too. 

[babyfade]

Can you post the video? Thanks.

[Chief Penguin]

I think the funnest thing about the short game is there is no reason why anyone can’t be an amazing player around the greens.  You can hit shots that Spieth or JT would be proud of.

[makana]

This is strictly for sand shots that have soft sand in it...If the sand is firmer hitting closer to the ball with lower bounce can have a more consistant strike and flight pattern...

 

Plus I personally love a lower bounce vokey 58 M grind 08 bounce for chipping and pitching...wouldn't give that up for the 1 off sand shot per round 

[Hawkeye77]

1 hour ago, Saltydawg15 said:

We have all heard this, but I venture to say that 99% of golfers don’t know how to use the bounce. I say that because I thought I did and wonder why they called it my friend since it didn’t work that often for me.

 

I recently learned how to use the bounce after working on my sand game and taking lessons, but it was an old video of Seve on how to play out of the sand that made the light turn on. 
 

I used to open the face but when making contact I would turn over my right hand thinking I was releasing the club but I was exposing the leading edge. Seve discussed your right hand following the club and not turning over and walla my short game is the best part of my game and I’m deadly out of the sand. 
 

I bring this up because I know many suffer around the green and taking an hr lesson the pro generally misses this simple point. Once you figure it out, it’s amazing.

 

I hope this helps somebody. 

What video?

 

I'm curious on the Seve right hand thing as well, and allegedly not "turning over" - or were you thinking something other than releasing the club is what you were doing?

 

I absolutely need to release the club, no holding off or holding open - it's just a golf swing.

[mharr]

2 hours ago, Saltydawg15 said:

 

I recently learned how to use the bounce after working on my sand game and taking lessons, but it was an old video of Seve on how to play out of the sand that made the light turn on. 
 

I suspect the video Saltydawg15 refers to is this.  At about 3:40, Seve talks about the right hand, and not closing the club face. 

 

[TwistedSister]

1 hour ago, makana said:

This is strictly for sand shots that have soft sand in it...If the sand is firmer hitting closer to the ball with lower bounce can have a more consistant strike and flight pattern...

 

Plus I personally love a lower bounce vokey 58 M grind 08 bounce for chipping and pitching...wouldn't give that up for the 1 off sand shot per round 

You chip with 58* wedge?  Are you talking greenside or are you talking pitches of 20 to 30 yds?

[makana]

basically anything 40 yards and in! green side chips, flops, everything. I never hit it full though....ever. 

[Pepperturbo]

@Saltydawg15 Seve was THE man.  What gets overlooked by many when in the bunker is they take the traditional grip.  What happens then is bounce or no bounce, coming into the ball hands role like a normal wrist roll over, so bounce is not used, and they hit the ball thin or chunk it.

 

When I am in the bunker I open my hand and set the club in my hand with the club face open to desired degrees, then I close my grip.  When impact happens the wrist and club do NOT roll over or change the open face.

 

 

[Cwebb]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye77 said:

What video?

 

I'm curious on the Seve right hand thing as well, and allegedly not "turning over" - or were you thinking something other than releasing the club is what you were doing?

 

I absolutely need to release the club, no holding off or holding open - it's just a golf swing.

 

Lee Trevino talks about two basic sand techniques....a "hold" and "flip".  In this video....

 

[TwistedSister]

28 minutes ago, makana said:

basically anything 40 yards and in! green side chips, flops, everything. I never hit it full though....ever. 

You should try chipping green side with much less loft and get it to roll quicker. IMO  Much more consistent. 

[makana]

1 minute ago, dhacker56 said:

You should try chipping green side with much less loft and get it to roll quicker. IMO  Much more consistent. 

I have definitely tried it in the past...ended up not loving it (and caused many unwanted bogeys)...I can usually land it high and soft, low and runny, low with spin...but for the most part I can have it run 5 feet on a normal shot with 58. makes it semi predicable...and can play out of almost any lie with it...

[Hawkeye77]

41 minutes ago, Cwebb said:

 

Lee Trevino talks about two basic sand techniques....a "hold" and "flip".  In this video....

 

He can definitely do what he says he can do, but he was one of the best for sure.

 

His comment about Gary Player being a holder - no, on ordinary bunker shots Gary has a release and it's not a flip, but that's Lee's term.

 

By Lee's definition, Tiger is one of those flippers, so are most guys on Tour.

 

Different techniques for different shots, but Lee overestimates a bit the "hold" in terms of what guys were/are doing.

[Saltydawg15]

8 hours ago, mharr said:

I suspect the video Saltydawg15 refers to is this.  At about 3:40, Seve talks about the right hand, and not closing the club face. 

 

This is it, it is similar on short shots around the green or short pitches over a bunker.

[iteachgolf]

On 5/4/2021 at 12:19 PM, makana said:

This is strictly for sand shots that have soft sand in it...If the sand is firmer hitting closer to the ball with lower bounce can have a more consistant strike and flight pattern...

 

Plus I personally love a lower bounce vokey 58 M grind 08 bounce for chipping and pitching...wouldn't give that up for the 1 off sand shot per round 

What do you mean strictly for sand shots with soft sand?    If the bounce is in the right spot you can hit a very high bounce wedge off concrete let alone firm sand.  
 

My wedge with more than double the bounce of your wedge, sits closer to the ground when open than yours will.  

[LowAndLeft32]

4 minutes ago, iteachgolf said:

What do you mean strictly for sand shots with soft sand?    If the bounce is in the right spot you can hit a very high bounce wedge off concrete let alone firm sand.  
 

My wedge with more than double the bounce of your wedge, sits closer to the ground when open than yours will.  

Interesting. What wedge do you have? Still Vokey V grind?

[makana]

54 minutes ago, iteachgolf said:

What do you mean strictly for sand shots with soft sand?    If the bounce is in the right spot you can hit a very high bounce wedge off concrete let alone firm sand.  
 

My wedge with more than double the bounce of your wedge, sits closer to the ground when open than yours will.  

58M is in the car but, these are the wedges that I don’t use. For me personally, none of these wedges lay wide open because they don’t have the back edge relief or heal relief. Something like a T grind would be perfect as it has bounce but has back edge relief. That D grind 12 degrees of bounce wedge is horrible. 
 

Maybe you can help me out a little? 

[indianagolf2]

On 5/4/2021 at 2:50 PM, makana said:

I have definitely tried it in the past...ended up not loving it (and caused many unwanted bogeys)...I can usually land it high and soft, low and runny, low with spin...but for the most part I can have it run 5 feet on a normal shot with 58. makes it semi predicable...and can play out of almost any lie with it...

If your having success for various shots then stick with just the 58

[Soloman1]

I think bounce on tour is ≥14°.

[iteachgolf]

10 hours ago, LowAndLeft32 said:

Interesting. What wedge do you have? Still Vokey V grind?

I play wedges I made. Similar to V grind but has more bounce and more heel relief

Edited May 6, 2021 by iteachgolf

[iteachgolf]

9 hours ago, makana said:

58M is in the car but, these are the wedges that I don’t use. For me personally, none of these wedges lay wide open because they don’t have the back edge relief or heal relief. Something like a T grind would be perfect as it has bounce but has back edge relief. That D grind 12 degrees of bounce wedge is horrible. 
 

Maybe you can help me out a little? 

All of those have peak bounce too far back which raised the leading edge too high when open. V grind would work.  X grind from callaway is better than those 4.   A T grind is very low bounce

 

the left photo is a V grind that has well over 20* of bounce on the front portion next to a 14* bounce wedge with peak bounce being at back of the wedge.  The left one will dig less when square but sit way closer to the ground when open.  Best of both worlds

[stingerfade]

On 5/4/2021 at 1:28 PM, mharr said:

I suspect the video Saltydawg15 refers to is this.  At about 3:40, Seve talks about the right hand, and not closing the club face. 

 

He just looks like he was born to golf. Such a legend 

[makana]

2 hours ago, iteachgolf said:

All of those have peak bounce too far back which raised the leading edge too high when open. V grind would work.  X grind from callaway is better than those 4.   A T grind is very low bounce

 

the left photo is a V grind that has well over 20* of bounce on the front portion next to a 14* bounce wedge with peak bounce being at back of the wedge.  The left one will dig less when square but sit way closer to the ground when open.  Best of both worlds

yes! i see the difference now. the wedges have that are high in bounce have a lot of bounce near the back...which then doesn't allow it sit flush to the ground which gives me 0 confidence on tight turf. And yes you are right there is no heal relief in any of those wedges except for the PM grind...I have to go check out a V grind. Nice looking wedges btw, good work. 

[CasualLie]

Well...it is just one practice session but @Saltydawg15 you may have supplied the missing link I have been searching for a loooong time.  Thank you!  

 

Went to the range, just worked on keeping that right hand from rolling over the left as a way to slow down it's hyper activity!  I wasn't trying to hold anything off, stop release, or any big manipulation...just have the feel, like in the Seve video that the right hand stays under.

 

It's been driving me crazy watching the James Ridyard videos what was it he is doing and I am not doing.  And so many times I see how at finish it looks like things were "held off" but every time I practice it looks like post impact flippy.  I tried slowing down the overtaking of the right hand, tried making sure shaft was almost vertical at impact, etc...but could not find consistency.  Some days at the range I would totally have it down and drop 15/21 shots inside 3 feet, then the next day on the course can't get 1 to 3 feet.

 

Now I feel it.  And now I can match the post impact look I see in the videos.  Wow, what an eye opener!

 

[indianagolf2]

Use the right arm only.. made a huge difference for me to understand the bounce