PGL offers DJ, Rose $30 million each (***MERGED***)

[manku]

2 hours ago, stingerfade said:

Please elaborate 

 

RBC sponsors a bunch of players...incredibly, they all showed up to play the the RBC @ Hilton Head.   I believe Phil had a Ford a while back deal too which worked like that.   Didn't Tiger always play the Buick events when they sponsored him?

 

They probably don't put it in writing for legal reasons, though.

[golfday]

They could set the events up like world team tennis or have a bunch of small events that would look like a wgc, tigers charity event, or some combination. Every event may not be 72 holes stroke play, and in think I’ve read that there could be a team aspect to some events.

[freeze16172002]

Are sponsors going to be ok with their players leaving the pga tour

[00steven]

https://www.golfchannel.com/news/pga-tour-commissioner-jay-monahan-reiterates-punishment-any-player-joining-rival-tour-say
 

Shades of the Champcar v IRL open wheel split. Can’t imagine any top level player willing to jeopardize their future.

[ATLgopher]

7 hours ago, JaNelson38 said:

the top guys are also businessmen.

top guys hire businessmen

[bscinstnct]

They could get JRose and Lee Westwood and Casey. Maybe Adam Scott. Poulter. 
 

But the US is set up too well for the best young players to live/work golf and prepare for Majors.

 

Oh, also the Euros love the Ryder Cup. Could they play the RC if they leave the PGA/Euro tour?

 

They could do some snooping and see which high profile players are in a cash crunch. They could be vulnerable to recruiting. 
 

 

The issue is that it’s like a startup. You can get great people to leave Google to go to a startup. But the product has to be earthshaking and disruptive. And needs amazing leadership. Then people will join for *less money up front. 
 

For this, they need like Tiger and Rory and Bryson and Rahmbo. If they give those guys like a billion to split up! Then maybe they sign up. Then they got a chance.,
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PuttCurseRepeat]

9 hours ago, JaNelson38 said:

Golf entities like the PGA Tour, the USGA, the R&A, Augusta, etc all claim to be global ambassadors for golf.  It'd be pretty hypocritical for them to shun members of a professional golf league just because they are suddenly no longer active members of the PGA Tour or the European Tour.   

 

But it would be foolish to allow their product to be gutted in the name of "ambassadorship". I'm sure there are other ways to be good ambassadors of the game without letting your best players get poached by an entity which may have even less desire to be ambassadors for the game. The "hypocrisy" argument here isn't very compelling.

 

8 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

I think some people might be missing the point --whether this happens or not i'm not even sure matters right now. The fact that it's even being considered to the point that the PGA tour is gonna make threats like they are, and call meetings like they are ---is bad

 

Yes, PGA golfers make a lot of money. But look at other sports right now, the NBA gives players guaranteed contracts. The NFL is starting to do this more. You are starting to see a major backlash against the NCAA for not paying players.

 

The PGA tour markets guys like DJ, Koepka and others, yet they don't get guaranteed money. The tour can put Johnson's face on a poster for a tournament and he can leave that weekend with nothing if he doesn't play well. Meanwhile James Harden can show up to Rockets camp weighing 250lbs and sleepwalk through games for full salary.

 

Don't worry - Johnson's face won't be on posters for long if he keeps leaving tournaments on Friday evenings, empty-handed. 

 

7 hours ago, JaNelson38 said:

There's a price tag for everything, and I think if this report is to be believed, the PGL is trying to find out right now what that price tag needs to be to entice players into this.  And all its going to take is just one big name to bite and others will follow, so the PGA Tour and everyone associated (sponsors, networks, etc) will have to take this seriously.

 

If this goes anywhere it won't be one, or even two players stepping out. They're going to need safety in numbers. I don't see it happening, but the players could use this situation to leverage more guarantees from the PGA Tour.

[mosesgolf]

Tempting for someone in the twilight of their careers. 

Things are going to get interesting. If DJ bolts are they really going to prevent him from playing TPC or other big events?

 

PGA Tour doesn't run the Masters, PGA, US OPEN, and the Open. 

 

They  need to get a chunk of the big boys or no go. 

 

[soregongolfer]

So now that the tour is talking punishments, are the players still private contractors?    

[grm24]

3 hours ago, mosesgolf said:

Things are going to get interesting. If DJ bolts are they really going to prevent him from playing TPC or other big events?

 

PGA Tour doesn't run the Masters, PGA, US OPEN, and the Open.

True. But those aforementioned parties help control world ranking points which are awarded. Along with the PGA Tour, R&A and International Federation of PGA Tours. Which are the professional tours that control the WGC events. Whose members Included the PGA Tour, European Tour, etc.

 

As to your first question. Yes. The individual tours and the majors control the narrative who can play in their events. The top golf tours and majors can band together and say if you join this new world tour then you are barred from the top tours and majors going forward. Or do so individually.

 

 

 

 

[Dave230]

11 hours ago, cardoustie said:

I think the premise the players are on about it some sort of proper guaranteed compensation for their position in the sport vs other leagues like NHL, NFL, NBA etc.   “I’m the 90th best golfer in the world but my pay is dodgy”

 

Maybe there needs to be background salaries for making it on tour .... 

There is of sorts where you only stay on Tour if you finish within a certain number of places, which means you must earn at least $600,000 or whatever. That $600,000 minimum is like your contract for playing that you have to earn.

[dcmidnight]

10 hours ago, freeze16172002 said:

Are sponsors going to be ok with their players leaving the pga tour

 

How do you think US sponsors will react when the first players that leave have to do commercials for this new league and praising the great Kingdom of Saudi Arabia for their amazing new initiative and forward thinking blah blah blah. Of course, they wont need the money - but its certainly going to go away.

 

Sportswashing isn't new for Saudi Arabia, I think I read they have spent $2B cumulatively so far on F1 races, horse races etc. They dont care about the money or even about making a profit.

 

Wait its now known as "Super League Golf"....lol....

 

[JK Ward]

Guaranteed money, 18 presumably no-cut events for huge purses. I'd say the players are interested. Only Woods, McIlroy and Mickelson earned more than 30 million last year.

 

Don't see how it would be possible for a player to play 18 events and still plan on being on the PGA tour. On the European Tour, yes, with their low number of events requirement.

 

Reportedly no invite for Rory but Mickelson gets one?

 

 

[dcmidnight]

Rory gave them the finger last year when this came up, saying he was uncomfortable with the source of the funding. Not sure why they would come back to him with another invite this year.

[dcmidnight]

BTW strictly as a viewer, this sounds boring as hell to watch. If I'm reading it right, its 18 events of only 48 people in a team format? And those 48 guys are probably a few "stars" but mostly 48 middle of the pack guys who didn't make enough on the PGA Tour so now they are chasing money at the end of their career. Yawn. Basically a full season of money-grab exhibition matches. 

 

 

 

[ChillyDipper]

My thoughts are that in order for this to be more than just a flash in the pan, it needs legitimacy.  It needs a sustained, well-produced format targeted for viewership at the right time of day with the best players and some sort of continuity story that progresses towards a conclusion each season - much the same as F1.  Jay Monahan is the embodiment of Corporate America and a lot of North Americans (cheers to my Canadian homies) are not down with Corporate greed and bloat anymore, and would welcome a little shake-up to the 0.1%er's.  Even if that money comes from something arguably worse than corporations.  The biggest mistake the PGL could make, as has been alluded to, would be to present themselves as a gimmicky exhibition a la the Match or the old Anderson Consulting Skills events featuring such great names as Billy Andrade vs Lanny Wadkins (/s).

[hunterdog]

I am really not the target demographic, upper middle-class, employer, belong to two golf clubs, travel to play to courses like Bandon, Pebble, Kiawah, Royal County Down, etc., and purchase and play higher-end clubs (though older at this point).  With that said, I have no interest in watching a golf league that is funded by a country involved in attacks on the US, supports and encourages terrorism, and encourages violence and abhorrent behavior against 50% of the world’s population.

 

I suspect that the Saudis will be able to get plenty of players to participate.  While a lot of money is good, a lot more money, guaranteed, will be considered better.  The participants will find some marketing agency or McKinsey Consulting to help with the public image.

[MtlJeff]

10 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

They could get JRose and Lee Westwood and Casey. Maybe Adam Scott. Poulter. 
 

But the US is set up too well for the best young players to live/work golf and prepare for Majors.

 

Oh, also the Euros love the Ryder Cup. Could they play the RC if they leave the PGA/Euro tour?

 

They could do some snooping and see which high profile players are in a cash crunch. They could be vulnerable to recruiting. 
 

 

The issue is that it’s like a startup. You can get great people to leave Google to go to a startup. But the product has to be earthshaking and disruptive. And needs amazing leadership. Then people will join for *less money up front. 
 

For this, they need like Tiger and Rory and Bryson and Rahmbo. If they give those guys like a billion to split up! Then maybe they sign up. Then they got a chance.,
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think the future is some sort of global tour almost like the premier league. I could see Euro tour and PGA tour and others existing for the journeyman types and big name guys to play in a few tournaments here and there.

 

But golf is really a global game, lot of Asian players coming up the ranks too now. I can't see like 18 of the top 20 tournaments every year being in the US for too much longer

 

Seeing Saudi throw money at it, eventually China will . It just feels like the future is like 7-8 big events in the US, 7-8 somewhere in Europe/Middle East and then like 7-8 somewhere in Asia

 

I wonder if there is even enough money in the US alone for golf. As was pointed out earlier in the thread the PGA tour doesn't make enough to pay these guys what most athletes get paid.

[dcmidnight]

Isnt this the argument that Greg Norman made 30 or so years ago?

I know its only about the money...but I think its about more than the money. These players, even the mid level guys or the barely hanger-on-ers, they realize that living and playing in the US is a pretty good gig. The sponsor money, the tv contracts - thats based on a US-centric tour, like it or not. They're not paying the same money for a tour where 16 events a year are in the Middle East or Asia.

 

Also, you think the guys who are living in Jupiter are going to want to play on a Tour like that? Thats a ton of travel or else you really have to move over there to make it viable.

 

Maybe the PGL gets a lot of Euro-Tour-based guys to go play, would be less of a shakeup for them, less travel certainly.

[JK Ward]

1 hour ago, dcmidnight said:

Rory gave them the finger last year when this came up, saying he was uncomfortable with the source of the funding. Not sure why they would come back to him with another invite this year.

 

Koepka came out pretty strongly against it too last year. He didn't question the money source but he criticized the whole concept.

[MtlJeff]

4 minutes ago, dcmidnight said:

Isnt this the argument that Greg Norman made 30 or so years ago?

I know its only about the money...but I think its about more than the money. These players, even the mid level guys or the barely hanger-on-ers, they realize that living and playing in the US is a pretty good gig. The sponsor money, the tv contracts - thats based on a US-centric tour, like it or not. They're not paying the same money for a tour where 16 events a year are in the Middle East or Asia.

 

Also, you think the guys who are living in Jupiter are going to want to play on a Tour like that? Thats a ton of travel or else you really have to move over there to make it viable.

 

Maybe the PGL gets a lot of Euro-Tour-based guys to go play, would be less of a shakeup for them, less travel certainly.

 

I think Greg was right, just the money wasn't there plus the tour at that point was much more American. I don't want to look through it all again but i researched this for an article a while back. Back then something like 60-70 of the top 100 players in the world were American if i recall. Now it is 47 currently but it's been in the 30s at various points. Asian born players or European born players might enjoy living closer to home and those markets will likely want to host events

 

If it's say, 20 events in a year, that's slightly less than one every 2 weeks. The travel i think is a bit exaggerated, i know a lot of people who travel to Asia a couple of times a quarter (or at least pre-covid) , it's pretty common in some industries. These guys would likely do it on private or chartered jets

 

The fact that the tour is worried about the PGL is enough validation that they think something like this could happen. If there was a "world tour" with guaranteed money funded by US, China and Middle East money offering these guys contracts for 10-20M (or more to the very top guys) to play 20 events in a year. Yes i think they would all do it

 

 

[dcmidnight]

Yeah but I say this every time someone brings up the private jet argument - its still flying halfway around the world. It still sucks, its still terrible on your body. I've done it in first and I dont care how nice the seat is, its still terrible for you.

 

Doing it once a year for a big appearance fee is one thing. Doing it multiple times a month? Absolutely no way.

 

BTW its not just "Americans" - its also players from Europe or Asia who have realized that headquartering themselves/living in the US is pretty damn good. So its not just counting how many "Americans" are in the Top 100. Guys like Rory live/train in Florida for a reason.

 

[MtlJeff]

2 minutes ago, dcmidnight said:

Yeah but I say this every time someone brings up the private jet argument - its still flying halfway around the world. It still sucks, its still terrible on your body. I've done it in first and I dont care how nice the seat is, its still terrible for you.

 

Doing it once a year for a big appearance fee is one thing. Doing it multiple times a month? Absolutely no way.

 

BTW its not just "Americans" - its also players from Europe or Asia who have realized that headquartering themselves/living in the US is pretty damn good. So its not just counting how many "Americans" are in the Top 100. Guys like Rory live/train in Florida for a reason.

 

 

People live in the US because the money is better there and the majority of the top tournaments are there. The top soccer players in the world mostly live in Europe, because that's the best place to live if you play soccer. If a golfer born in Spain could make more money playing in Spain, he might stay there rather than move to Florida.

 

We're seeing that the middle east has lots of money, so does China, and want to start hosting sporting events. The NBA does major business with China. Hosting a few golf tournaments is a lot easier than working other sports into the schedule. Hard to imagine over time they won't start throwing money at golf as more Asians move up the rankings.

 

I don't think the PGA tour can fend off people offering money like that forever. At least not without a structural change that allows them to pay the top guys more. This whole commotion that we're discussing is kind of validating that, even though i think this particular attempt will fail

 

[dcmidnight]

I will say this - if this new tour was sponsored by Adidas and Gatorade and the tournaments were in the US and maybe Europe - we're talking about a whole different story/threat to the PGA Tour.

[cardoustie]

If I am a player these threats of expulsion tells me something is very wrong with the current system and it would piss me off greatly

 

The tour is mad because they are not, yet anyways, part of a larger group of proposed worldwide events for top dogs.  The PGA Tour is used to controlling everything, especially with their worldwide swallowing up of the smaller tours and “helping” others out

 

Think about it as fans, events are much more fun to watch when you have the big players 

 

Guaranteed the thought process is top guys need more wealth.   How many NBA guys make 40 mill a year?  I know the math can be fuzzy based on markets but that has to be the behind the scenes thinking and why the tour came up with this $40mm bonus BS pool 

 

Maybe PGA tour needs to jack up their pension system even further 

 

 

[dcmidnight]

12 minutes ago, cardoustie said:

If I am a player these threats of expulsion tells me something is very wrong with the current system and it would piss me off greatly

 

Really? Because if I'm a player the threat of expulsion just tells me Jay Monahan is a businessman and as the CEO he has a brand/sponsors to protect.

 

What other league would allow you to go play professionally in another league - of the same sport - thats positioned itself as a clear threat and direct competitor? I really cant think of any but then again I'm not sure there's an appropriate comparison out there to be made anyway.

 

Two things we dont really know about are the pension money and sponsor deal money. Even for the mid level guys, they have to be making out pretty good from those kinds of things (edited to add - currently making out pretty good, on the PGA Tour). Remember, not every player is getting the $30M offers, its only the "team captains".

Edited May 5, 2021 by dcmidnight

[vjswing]

48 minutes ago, dcmidnight said:

Isnt this the argument that Greg Norman made 30 or so years ago?

 

Coincidentally enough, Greg Norman has been mentioned in connection with those attempting to put together this new tour...

Quote

The Saudis, meanwhile, have tried to build relationships with the Asian, Japan and Sunshine Tours. The two-times Open champion Greg Norman is believed to be among those advising the Saudis. Norman’s spokesperson offered no comment when approached.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/may/04/saudi-arabia-plan-breakaway-golf-tour

Edited May 5, 2021 by vjswing

[bscinstnct]

1 hour ago, MtlJeff said:

 

I think the future is some sort of global tour almost like the premier league. I could see Euro tour and PGA tour and others existing for the journeyman types and big name guys to play in a few tournaments here and there.

 

But golf is really a global game, lot of Asian players coming up the ranks too now. I can't see like 18 of the top 20 tournaments every year being in the US for too much longer

 

Seeing Saudi throw money at it, eventually China will . It just feels like the future is like 7-8 big events in the US, 7-8 somewhere in Europe/Middle East and then like 7-8 somewhere in Asia

 

I wonder if there is even enough money in the US alone for golf. As was pointed out earlier in the thread the PGA tour doesn't make enough to pay these guys what most athletes get paid.

 

I look at it this way.

 

It took the UK centuries and the US over a century of golf being woven into the thread of society to produce the physical infrastructure (courses, youth/college programs) and the generational family focus on the game to produce what we see today.

 

The issue with the Saudis or China is that you need all of the above to really enable what they would want to accomplish as far as having a “home grown” talent pool.

 

As far as recruiting. Pulling top players is not going to work once they are established for a few years on the PGA Tour. A guy like JT is focused on his childhood dreams of being a grand slam winner and seeing his name on the Masters menu; )

 

They would really need to recruit players right out of college, take the risk like the NFL teams do in a draft, a throw a ton of guaranteed money at players with promise but no pro track record.

 

This would be more effective on young Euro and Asian players for a number of reasons. 
 

 

 

 

[Frankensteins Monster]

42 minutes ago, vjswing said:

Coincidentally enough, Greg Norman has been mentioned in connection with those attempting to put together this new tour...

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/may/04/saudi-arabia-plan-breakaway-golf-tour

Just when I couldn't think any less of Norman, he goes out and outdoes his deplorable existence.

[Frankensteins Monster]

10 hours ago, mosesgolf said:

Tempting for someone in the twilight of their careers. 

Things are going to get interesting. If DJ bolts are they really going to prevent him from playing TPC or other big events?

 

PGA Tour doesn't run the Masters, PGA, US OPEN, and the Open. 

 

They  need to get a chunk of the big boys or no go. 

 

But to get into The Masters, PGA Championship, U.S. Open, and the British Open, you need world ranking points. They're not getting any from this proposed carnival side show.