I felt cheated about buying from Club Champions after hearing this ... I'm calling it SHAFTGATE!!!

[shart6]

58 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

Why change iron shafts?  As we get older our ss decreases substantially especially when we hit 50+. 

I noted I've gone to more flexible shafts but I see little reason change the profile. I like the way the ball goes up, the height and most important the angle the ball descends. And the feel of course.

 

But your assumption is a little  wrong for me. I hit the ball the longest in my late forties and early fifties. I'm 67 and can still reach 500 yard par 5 with two good shots, no different than my youth.

[phizzy30]

9 minutes ago, shart6 said:

I noted I've gone to more flexible shafts but I see little reason change the profile. I like the way the ball goes up, the height and most important the angle the ball descends. And the feel of course.

 

But your assumption is a little  wrong for me. I hit the ball the longest in my late forties and early fifties. I'm 67 and can still reach 500 yard par 5 with two good shots, no different than my youth.

You're def an anomaly then.  I wish that when I hit my 50's I can hit the ball as far as I do now.  Turned 40 last year.  I can get to a 500 yard par 5 with driver and 7 iron now and I hope it stays that way for awhile.  I've always been pretty long off the tee from the get go.  Was the longest from my mid 20's to early 30's, then injuries set in and it's never been the same although I haven't lost too much ss. 

Edited May 5, 2021 by phizzy30

[smrtchar]

2 hours ago, sethdavidsdad said:

The part I don’t like about what they do at CC is they won’t give you the retail shafts that they pull. Which I think is BS. If I’m paying for the stock shaft and the upgrade shaft I should get both. 
Just my opinion after paying too much for a driver. 

My point exactly!

[smrtchar]

1 hour ago, ctmason_98 said:

 

Just like most people don't ask for the gold/platinum/precious metal cut out of a ring being cut down a size or two.  When we asked for the platinum cut out of my wife's ring at a large jewelry store chain, they were absolutely incredulous, and stunned.  First thing out of the sales person's mouth was, "I don't think we can do that."  😆

LOL ... I'd want that too! The difference though is that I don't think the jewelry stores are saving the platinum and reselling that same platinum to other customers. And if they are, they're not making a lot of money off of it. CC is keeping $100 worth of product which was paid by the customer. It's 20% of the value of the driver. 

[smrtchar]

7 minutes ago, mktrout said:

The reality is, if you actually buy a club from club champion you simply aren't very smart. They are pretty widely known at this point as one of the worst businesses out there.

Thanks for calling me dumb 😞 ... but in my defense, I liked the shaft I was fit with but I couldn't find it anywhere (BST, eBay, DallasGolf).

Edited May 6, 2021 by smrtchar

[phizzy30]

26 minutes ago, smrtchar said:

Thanks for calling me dumb 😞 ... but in my defense, I liked the shaft I was fit with but I couldn't find it anywhere (BST, eBay, DallasGolf).

Try Will Peoples next time.  He's can pretty much get you any shaft you're looking for.  Customer service is second to none. 

[ASN21]

9 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

Try Will Peoples next time.  He's can pretty much get you any shaft you're looking for.  Customer service is second to none. 

This x100. Club Champions business practices are terrible, I don’t care how many golf forums they sponsor. By bringing these type of experiences to light will be the only way for them to shift what and how they do things. 

[cristphoto]

I've seen a couple posts from people saying CC keeps your stock shafts and then sells you replacement shafts at bloated prices. Did I get this correct?  So if I buy a new driver from Golf Galaxy and take it to CC and want to be fitted they will have me hit balls trying different shafts? When the numbers look good they sell me that shaft and install in my driver.  Where do they feel they have the right to keep my driver shaft?  If it were me I'd go through the fitting process and then when I selected the optimum shaft I'd simply take my driver wrench and take MY shaft (takes all of about 10 seconds now).  They try stopping me they just lost a sale.  Plus after hearing all this I would question if the shaft I'm buying from them (at elevated list prices) is actually new or simply a pull from a previous customer.  Starting to get a bit smelly. 

[Feelingofgreatness]

It's no better at TXG.

I went to get fit for a set of PXG irons... an hour later they give me a bill for $5K.

I decided to think about it, called PXG the next day, they gave me a free fit and I bought the same clubs from them for $2K.

 

[Stuart_G]

11 hours ago, sethdavidsdad said:

The part I don’t like about what they do at CC is they won’t give you the retail shafts that they pull. Which I think is BS. If I’m paying for the stock shaft and the upgrade shaft I should get both. 
Just my opinion after paying too much for a driver. 

 

Actually, they get the heads direct from the OEM's without shafts.  So you're paying the same price for just the head as others might pay for the head and the stock shaft.  

 

Or to put it another way, when you buy the clubs through most retail outlets, the OEM's are giving the stock shafts (and no cost upgrades) away for free.  And by buying from CC, you're choosing not to take advantage of that free shaft offer.

 

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Stuart_G

[cristphoto]

15 hours ago, sethdavidsdad said:

The part I don’t like about what they do at CC is they won’t give you the retail shafts that they pull. Which I think is BS. If I’m paying for the stock shaft and the upgrade shaft I should get both. 
Just my opinion after paying too much for a driver. 

 

The above is from the original post.  Plus do all suppliers sell heads only to club fitters?  I've always been told you could only get fully assembled clubs (no components) from Ping and Titleist. Don't know about other companies.  

 

Or to flip the scenario, lets say you go into CC with your driver and tell them you love the shaft but have trouble hitting the head.  Are they going to fit you into a new head and keep your existing one?  I fail to see where they have the right to do this.  

Edited May 6, 2021 by cristphoto

[pccasstpro]

36 minutes ago, cristphoto said:

 

The above is from the original post.  Plus do all suppliers sell heads only to club fitters?  I've always been told you could only get fully assembled clubs (no components) from Ping and Titleist. Don't know about other companies.  

 

Or to flip the scenario, lets say you go into CC with your driver and tell them you love the shaft but have trouble hitting the head.  Are they going to fit you into a new head and keep your existing one?  I fail to see where they have the right to do this.  

 

Some OEM's are offering component programs ; for example Callaway has the ProPonent Dealer network. This is just like many of the shaft companies have done where the dealers cant sell the raw shafts. It has to be installed or at least cut to length before it ships. Some places skirt the rules buy adding options like components in box type options.  

[dubbelbogey]

I know this is off-topic, but I was curious because someone above brought up the example of a jeweler keeping the gold/platinum cutof from a ringf. I did a little math assuming taking out 3mm of circumference from the ring. This works out to something on the order of $20 or so worth of material (that is being very generous - I assumed a pretty fat ring and sized for a large finger).

 

I also learned that gold is currently trading for much higher prices than platinum, which surprised me. 

 

Now, back to your regularly scheduled golf club debate.

[Hobbs]

I think there are several issues with CC.  These are my opinion based on a fitting I participated in several years ago for a driver, 3 wood and driving iron.

 

1.  Everyone likes the ability to get clubs fitted with data (trackman) and the I think the customer service is pretty good (from my experience).

2. The fitter is constantly trying to close a sale during the fitting.

3. If you're honest with them in the beginning about not buying clubs from them and only there for the fitting, I felt it turned into a shaft upgrade only fitting.

4.  Their prices for clubs are ridiculous.

 

I went for my fitting and I had a F9 club that I recently purchased from BST.  I told the fitter, although the F9 was new (just released a month prior to the fitting), I was open to all drivers.  However, I would not purchase from them unless the price was right.  He even explained that their prices were high but tried to justify that they were "best" club builders.

 

I kindly told him that I've tinkered with clubs and I could glue an adapter to a shaft and screw on the head pretty well also.  He nodded, smiled and said "touché".

 

During the fitting, he was nice, professional and helpful, however, he only had me hit 3 other driver heads and quickly stated the F9 that I purchased on BST was the best fit for me.  Then it went into shaft fitting which, I thought was pretty good and ended up fitted into a Diamana shaft.

 

Then the 3 wood, I had a F9 Tour.  Again, he had me hit 3 other 3 woods and said the F9 Tour was the best fit for me.  Again, turned into a shaft fitting for a Oban Isawa shaft.

 

Then the driving iron didn't turn out very well, I was tired and wasn't swing well at that point, but he stated the iron head I had (Mizuno MP-18 Fli HI was then best head and we could do the shaft test another day.

 

He tried to sell me the shafts are $100 over retail for each shaft (researched while he took a restroom break).  I kindly declined and told him I'd think about it.  When he printed up my spec sheet for the fitting, he had the driver and 3 wood listed with the correct fitted shaft but had swing weight at D7!

 

Didn't notice it at first until I went home.  I called the next day and he stated that's what he put in the computer, so it must be correct.  I'm sorry, but my wedges aren't even close to a D7!

 

If I ever go for a fitting from CC again, I'll let them do their sales pitch all day and when it's done, obtain the spec sheet and tell them thanks for the fitting, but I'll think about purchase over night.  Then I'll got toe BST or another place to purchase the clubs/build.

[phizzy30]

2 hours ago, cristphoto said:

 

The above is from the original post.  Plus do all suppliers sell heads only to club fitters?  I've always been told you could only get fully assembled clubs (no components) from Ping and Titleist. Don't know about other companies.  

 

Or to flip the scenario, lets say you go into CC with your driver and tell them you love the shaft but have trouble hitting the head.  Are they going to fit you into a new head and keep your existing one?  I fail to see where they have the right to do this.  

OEMs will sell head only to club fitters/builders if they request it.  I know 2 guys locally and a sponsor here that has told me the same exact thing. 

[Jwowzer]

On 5/4/2021 at 8:11 PM, smrtchar said:

Club Champions doesn't have a deal to buy just the driver head from major OEMs so they get a stock shaft that comes with the driver that they just keep. A lot of the time they will sell them to customers who come in with their own club heads. Supposedly a stock shaft like a Tensei Orange retails for a little over $100.

 

That's 100% not true and a flat out lie. Sounds like a disgruntled former employee who is trying to tarnish a brand or someone who clearly didn't understand how his own company operated.

[Jwowzer]

11 hours ago, Feelingofgreatness said:

It's no better at TXG.

I went to get fit for a set of PXG irons... an hour later they give me a bill for $5K.

I decided to think about it, called PXG the next day, they gave me a free fit and I bought the same clubs from them for $2K.

 

Hey, nobody sells golf clubs like they do. Period. Since when is PXG the cheaper alternative?!? 😆

[JCAG]

On 5/5/2021 at 12:22 PM, North Butte said:

Your goal was to have the fitter identify a set of clubs that work well for you. You're basically paying him for his knowledge and advice then buying your clubs retail.

 

The prototypical Club Champion customer has a different goal. They want Club Champion to CREATE for them a better set of clubs than they could purchase at retail. They don't want to spend the same $2,000 on a bag of clubs that anyone can buy off the rack. They want to spend $4,000 on a bag of clubs that Club Champion has added $2,000 worth of value to by also [whatever you call it that they are supposedly doing to justify the price]. 

 

You either buy into the value-added proposition or you don't. Nothing wrong with paying for a pure fitting with Club Champion if that's the best place you know to get fitted. But that's not the core of their business. The fitting is the thing that gets people in the door, the value-added is the thing that pays the bills.

 

I'll bet your local fitter did not have nearly as luxurious and impressive showroom and fitting studio as Club Champion usually does. There's not that much revenue in just getting paid for 2-3 hours of time fitting someone into a retail set of clubs.

Well said. The typical poster on this, or any golf, chat is not CC's target customer group. Many on here are cheap SOB golf club tinkerers. All well and fine but stay in your own lane.

[JCAG]

18 hours ago, miamistomp said:

 These days everybody and their dog is either a club fitter, personal trainer or life coach

 

 Unbelievable 🙄

Funny and truthful.

[MelloYello]

28 minutes ago, JCAG said:

Well said. The typical poster on this, or any golf, chat is not CC's target customer group. Many on here are cheap SOB golf club tinkerers. All well and fine but stay in your own lane.

 

Hahaha...that's hilarious and pretty accurate of some here. 

 

On the flip side though, the guy's receipt indicated he paid $800+ for a set of PX 6.5 shafts. Doesn't make anyone cheap to think that's outrageous, especially when Mizuno would've included those shafts for free, LOL. 

 

Bit of both sides here, I think. 

Edited May 6, 2021 by MelloYello

[brew4eagle]

I realize it's the smallest of the line items but OEMs will ship the grips "loose in the box".  So the Tour Velvet 360s were basically paid for twice, and severely marked up the 2nd time.

[kmay__]

Same thing as guys who have dealers install aftermarket tires on their new truck before they pick it up, and ya say to them "oh nice you gonna sell the stockers on kijiji?" And you get a blank stare back because they left the stock goodyears they paid for in the cost of the vehicle at the dealer. Now a guy comes in who needs new tires and is fine with the stock replacement, and your stock tires get installed on his truck and the dealer charges him full pop.  

[Pepperturbo]

19 hours ago, miamistomp said:

 These days everybody and their dog is either a club fitter, personal trainer or life coach

 

 Unbelievable 🙄

Yep.  That's what happens when someone doesn't want to find a real job, and requirements are based on fiction.  Every other woman on IG is a life coach. lol  Yet, they have no serious life experiences ... but that's another topic... 😛

 

[MelloYello]

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by MelloYello

[Stuart_G]

1 hour ago, MelloYello said:

 

Hahaha...that's hilarious and pretty accurate of some here. 

 

On the flip side though, the guy's receipt indicated he paid $800+ for a set of PX 6.5 shafts. Doesn't make anyone cheap to think that's outrageous, especially when Mizuno would've included those shafts for free, LOL. 

 

Bit of both sides here, I think. 

 

I agree.

 

I have nothing against people feeling that the work they do to put the clubs together has some value and might be worth some additional cost.    But I'm not crazy about padding the materials cost as a way to be compensated for that value.   It seems a bit deceptive.   If they really think it's worth the value, they really should be using a separate line item for the labor costs instead of charging $400 for a driver shaft with a MSRP of $360  or $72 per iron shaft when it really should be more like $40 per shaft.

 

Why they wont order the heads with the shafts from the OEM, pull them and do their mojo on the pulled shafts instead of new ones is another mystery that seems strange.  Seems like a "no brainer" way to save their customers money (and get more sales) - but maybe that's just me.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Stuart_G

[MelloYello]

3 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

I agree.

 

I have nothing against people feeling that the work they do to put the clubs together has some value and might be worth it.    But I'm not crazy about padding the materials cost as a way to be compensated for that value.   It seems a bit deceptive.   If they really think it's worth the value, they really should be using a separate line item for the labor costs instead of charging $400 for a driver shaft with a MSRP of $350  or $72 per iron shaft when it really should be more like $40 per shaft.

 

Why they wont order the heads with the shafts from the OEM, pull them and do their mojo on the pulled shafts instead of new ones is another mystery that seems strange.

 

A fool and his money as they say, right? 

 

Who deserves it more, the guy who has it or the guy clever enough to get it, haha? 

 

At least business practices like that ultimately don't win out in the end. No one ever built a sustainable business like that. I get the idea of luxury brands that appeal more as a status symbol than for their utility, but I don't see club fitting falling into that category.

Edited May 6, 2021 by MelloYello

[Valtiel]

42 minutes ago, brew4eagle said:

I realize it's the smallest of the line items but OEMs will ship the grips "loose in the box".  So the Tour Velvet 360s were basically paid for twice, and severely marked up the 2nd time.

 

Yeah, that is a $5 grip that would have been $0 with the stock club order that they charged $10 a pop. Yikes. 

[ctmason_98]

5 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

Why they wont order the heads with the shafts from the OEM, pull them and do their mojo on the pulled shafts instead of new ones is another mystery that seems strange.  Seems like a "no brainer" way to save their customers money (and get more sales) - but maybe that's just me.

Wouldn’t they also have to have more (semi-skilled )labor in order to do that, though? 

Just a guess, but they probably only see the expense side of it. Because they are business management geniuses. 🙄

[Stuart_G]

1 minute ago, ctmason_98 said:

Wouldn’t they also have to have more (semi-skilled )labor in order to do that, though? 

Just a guess, but they probably only see the expense side of it. Because they are business management geniuses. 🙄

 

Not really.   Only downside I see is that it might take longer to make and get a custom order from the OEMS (then do their work on top of that) than it would be to get the individual parts and do the custom build themselves.   But there is certainly going to be enough of a customer base who wouldn't mind the extra wait to get the amount of savings to make it worth it.

[North Butte]

I think we always need to keep in mind that for lots of Club Champion customers, the (inflated) price is itself part of the appeal. As long as the buyer is convinced that he's getting extra-special, custom, precise, careful, exotic work done in return for the extra money then paying a lot just adds to the bragging rights. 

 

Having a $4,000 set of custom clubs instead of a $2,000 set of OEM ones implies that you've gone to every possible length to acquired the ultimate clubs.