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Signs it is time to move to an all hybrid set


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I’m almost 60.

 

When I was younger I hit my irons long, if not especially straight. Always with a power draw. I have a positive AOA with driver (good) and with irons (bad).

 

I hated hybrids.

 

I hovered around a 13 handicap.

 

As I aged, I reluctantly added a 3 hybrid, then a 4 hybrid. Then a 5.  But I also hit my remaining irons straighter because I lacked the athleticism to hit them harder.

 

My handicap dropped to single figures.

 

I recently upgraded my irons to Cobra Forged Tec 6-GW. 
 

I’m not yet hitting them as well as my old set (PXG Gen1s) but assume I will. 
 

But whilst I was concentrating on results during my round today, I noticed an interesting thing that I’d kind of brushed aside before.

 

I hit more greens (6) from 170 plus using the hybrids than I did from 170 minus (4) using my irons. And even though I was trying out irons, I looked for reasons not to hit them.
 

I’m in a constant fight with a hook with my irons. I used to hook hybrids too. But now you can find neutral faced hybrids that can be adjusted open and flat. That I hit straight and can even fade (Callaway Epic Flash, Ping G410, Mizuno HiFli).

 

So my logical conclusion is that I should swallow my ego and go all hybrid with something like Cleveland HB Turbos.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

Mavrik Ventus Velocore
Cobra F6 Baffler

Ping G410/Epic Flash Hybrids
Cobra Forged Tec Copper Irons
Cleveland CBX2 wedges
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You and your brother are good sons to your dad. Your story is the best thing I've read in a while. 

This is the dilemma if I go this way.   Hiccups with the new irons aside, 9 iron down is what I normally consider strength. So 140 yards.   But I’m not thinking pure hybrids, rathe

My dad (turning 60 this year) has never been a particularly good player (though he claims he was much better before my brother and I were born). Over the last several years, his consistency with his i

The problem with the HB is that they are NOT adjustable.  If you hook your irons the HB may be even worse.  Concentrate on getting a 6 hybrid as well first.  I saw one in Ping, but not sure how many other companies make individual hybrids that low in the set.

 

Then with Cobra, order a single T-rail 7 iron to see if you can handle the size and offset, Cobra will let you buy a single club.  T-rails are Cobra's version of the hybrid iron set.

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1 hour ago, mgoblue83 said:

Get fit for dynamic lie angle and get your irons bent to match. 


I have indeed been fit for lie angle.

 

I’m a bit of fitting slut in fact and went to both of the top fitters in my town recently.

 

Their recommendations were different from each other in a micro sense but not macro. Similar kinds of irons (players distance). One suggested upright, the other flat. One suggested light graphite and had numbers to prove it. The other suggested heavy steel and had numbers to prove it.

 

Neither considered real life turf interaction.

 

 

 

 

Mavrik Ventus Velocore
Cobra F6 Baffler

Ping G410/Epic Flash Hybrids
Cobra Forged Tec Copper Irons
Cleveland CBX2 wedges
PXG One and Done

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6 minutes ago, sfdoddsy said:


I have indeed been fit for lie angle.

 

I’m a bit of fitting slut in fact and went to both of the top fitters in my town recently.

 

Their recommendations were different from each other in a micro sense but not macro. Similar kinds of irons (players distance). One suggested upright, the other flat. One suggested light graphite and had numbers to prove it. The other suggested heavy steel and had numbers to prove it.

 

Neither considered real life turf interaction.

 

 

 

 

 

Soooooo.... what did you end up going with and have you confirmed the fitting by doing a dynamic lie angle test off grass? A wrong lie angle can cause terrible turf interaction and mishits as the clubs get longer. 

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1 hour ago, nvr3putt said:

Interesting dilemma. So is the plan to replace everything with hybrids except your wedges? How short can one theoretically hit a hybrid that can land on a green?


This is the dilemma if I go this way.

 

Hiccups with the new irons aside, 9 iron down is what I normally consider strength. So 140 yards.

 

But I’m not thinking pure hybrids, rather hybrid style irons.

 

I’ll probably have to suck it and see.

 

I have a cheap set of the Cleveland Launchers in my eBay cart.

 

Given I’ve just paid double their price for the dubious benefit of the Forged Tecs, the potential cost if it doesn’t work isn’t that great

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Mavrik Ventus Velocore
Cobra F6 Baffler

Ping G410/Epic Flash Hybrids
Cobra Forged Tec Copper Irons
Cleveland CBX2 wedges
PXG One and Done

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8 minutes ago, mgoblue83 said:

 

Soooooo.... what did you end up going with and have you confirmed the fitting by doing a dynamic lie angle test off grass? A wrong lie angle can cause terrible turf interaction and mishits as the clubs get longer. 


In the case of the Cobras I was just fitted to, I took the fitters advice and they were ordered at 3 degrees up. He did the usual lie board test.

 

My PXGs were fitted 2 degrees flat to counter my draw, based on Trackman dynamic fitting.

 

I’ve done the Sharpie lie test with the PXGs and, strike differences aside, the line was quite vertical.

 

I haven’t done it with the Cobras. But after a couple of range sessions hitting club for club side by side it was pretty obvious that with my current swing 3 degrees upright wasn’t wise.

 

 

Mavrik Ventus Velocore
Cobra F6 Baffler

Ping G410/Epic Flash Hybrids
Cobra Forged Tec Copper Irons
Cleveland CBX2 wedges
PXG One and Done

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1 hour ago, sfdoddsy said:

I’m almost 60.

 

When I was younger I hit my irons long, if not especially straight. Always with a power draw. I have a positive AOA with driver (good) and with irons (bad).

 

I hated hybrids.

 

I hovered around a 13 handicap.

 

As I aged, I reluctantly added a 3 hybrid, then a 4 hybrid. Then a 5.  But I also hit my remaining irons straighter because I lacked the athleticism to hit them harder.

 

My handicap dropped to single figures.

 

I recently upgraded my irons to Cobra Forged Tec 6-GW. 
 

I’m not yet hitting them as well as my old set (PXG Gen1s) but assume I will. 
 

But whilst I was concentrating on results during my round today, I noticed an interesting thing that I’d kind of brushed aside before.

 

I hit more greens (6) from 170 plus using the hybrids than I did from 170 minus (4) using my irons. And even though I was trying out irons, I looked for reasons not to hit them.
 

I’m in a constant fight with a hook with my irons. I used to hook hybrids too. But now you can find neutral faced hybrids that can be adjusted open and flat. That I hit straight and can even fade (Callaway Epic Flash, Ping G410, Mizuno HiFli).

 

So my logical conclusion is that I should swallow my ego and go all hybrid with something like Cleveland HB Turbos.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

My father has always been a 4-pw guy with a 3 hybrid, 18 months ago (he would have been 63) i finally got him to change his 4 iron to a hybrid, he loved it so much he then changed the 5 iron, about a month ago he then changed his 6 iron as well, i can honestly say hes never played better or enjoyed his golf as much as he has recently, hes even "chipping" 6 hybrids instead of going to his 7 iron, he definitely wishes he went to hybrids sooner and i can see him going chunky in his shorter irons soon

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58 minutes ago, sfdoddsy said:


I have indeed been fit for lie angle.

 

I’m a bit of fitting slut in fact and went to both of the top fitters in my town recently.

 

Their recommendations were different from each other in a micro sense but not macro. Similar kinds of irons (players distance). One suggested upright, the other flat. One suggested light graphite and had numbers to prove it. The other suggested heavy steel and had numbers to prove it.

 

Neither considered real life turf interaction.

 

 

 

 

When you say the fitter 'had numbers to prove it', in regards the the light graphite ... are you talking pure distance?  I tried lighter shafts (steelfiber, recoil), and all of a sudden my birdie opportunities per round dropped significantly.  They were great on the range ... almost too easy, high, and good distance.

 

I've settled on 115 grams for now, but know someday down the road I may need to adjust to something lighter.    

 

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1 hour ago, sfdoddsy said:


This is the dilemma if I go this way.

 

Hiccups with the new irons aside, 9 iron down is what I normally consider strength. So 140 yards.

 

But I’m not thinking pure hybrids, rather hybrid style irons.

 

I’ll probably have to suck it and see.

 

I have a cheap set of the Cleveland Launchers in my eBay cart.

 

Given I’ve just paid double their price for the dubious benefit of the Forged Tecs, the potential cost if it doesn’t work isn’t that great

I’d try the Launchers if money isn’t an issue beings they’re cheap you said. You won’t be disappointed in them. Two different results from two different fitters, hmmmm. If you’re constantly drawing the ball seems like a flatter lie would help with that possibly. I’ve had several sets of the Launchers and although not adjustable as mentioned vice, they can be bent a few degrees either way. Several options in the all hybrid iron now days. The W/S Launch Pads  are good too. They can be custom ordered through dealer. Good luck in your search. 

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My dad (turning 60 this year) has never been a particularly good player (though he claims he was much better before my brother and I were born). Over the last several years, his consistency with his irons had rapidly declined- he was more often hitting unusably bad shots than even "ok" ones. He was so discouraged, it would be hard to even get him to come play. My brother and I did two things that fundamentally changed his game- one, we got him a lesson. He'd been too stubborn to take them, so we finally just bought him an hour lesson for father's day a couple years ago. About the same time, we bought him a full set of Cobra t-rail's. Between the lesson fixing a couple things, and the huge boost in confidence he gets with (what he calls "idiot proof") his new Cobras, he's completely rejuvenated his love for the game. He even bought a Skytrak a few months later so that he could practice more.

 

All that to say, there's no shame in going with a full hybrid set. If it gives you confidence and allows you to hit the ball more consistently, it's absolutely worth it. It's been a lot of fun seeing how much my dad enjoys the game again.

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2 hours ago, sfdoddsy said:


I have indeed been fit for lie angle.

 

I’m a bit of fitting slut in fact and went to both of the top fitters in my town recently.

 

Their recommendations were different from each other in a micro sense but not macro. Similar kinds of irons (players distance). One suggested upright, the other flat. One suggested light graphite and had numbers to prove it. The other suggested heavy steel and had numbers to prove it.

 

Neither considered real life turf interaction.

 

 

 

 

 

And here is the problem with 99% of fittings indoors. Actually multiple problems, but the last point is problematic.

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9 minutes ago, nostatic said:

 

And here is the problem with 99% of fittings indoors. Actually multiple problems, but the last point is problematic.


I agree. Adjusting lie angle to counter a hook or slice is ok for a driver, but sounds like the wrong approach for a club that’s hit off the turf.

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1 hour ago, highandright said:

My dad (turning 60 this year) has never been a particularly good player (though he claims he was much better before my brother and I were born). Over the last several years, his consistency with his irons had rapidly declined- he was more often hitting unusably bad shots than even "ok" ones. He was so discouraged, it would be hard to even get him to come play. My brother and I did two things that fundamentally changed his game- one, we got him a lesson. He'd been too stubborn to take them, so we finally just bought him an hour lesson for father's day a couple years ago. About the same time, we bought him a full set of Cobra t-rail's. Between the lesson fixing a couple things, and the huge boost in confidence he gets with (what he calls "idiot proof") his new Cobras, he's completely rejuvenated his love for the game. He even bought a Skytrak a few months later so that he could practice more.

 

All that to say, there's no shame in going with a full hybrid set. If it gives you confidence and allows you to hit the ball more consistently, it's absolutely worth it. It's been a lot of fun seeing how much my dad enjoys the game again.

You and your brother are good sons to your dad. Your story is the best thing I've read in a while. 

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Have been playing 3-6 hybrids for years. Enjoyed them a lot. Some of my playing partners are also start replacing their long irons (3-5) with hybrids.

 

My pocket is deep with $20 bills got from a few guys playing shiny blade irons 🙂

 

 

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I'm 66.  I've been playing hybrids down to my 7 iron for a few years.  The longest iron is an 8 iron in  my bag.  Guys are always looking at me funny when I hit a 6 hybrid, which is the same loft as my 7 iron, from 155 yards.  I still play the regular men's tees with enough length off the tee.  The hybrids are so easy to hit compared to any long or mid iron.  

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10 hours ago, driveandputtmachine said:

The problem with the HB is that they are NOT adjustable...


Technically not true - although lamentably, effectively true.

 

HB Turbo would be perfect for my wife for a couple different reasons but she would need them 2-3 degrees flat.  I sent a note to Cleveland CS inquiring if they could be ordered flat. They said “yes” but at the present moment they were significantly behind in filling orders and weren’t providing that service.

 

The answer seems to imply there must be more to it than simply slapping them in a Mitchell and grabbing a bending bar.

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3 hours ago, Aviador Naval said:


Technically not true - although lamentably, effectively true.

 

HB Turbo would be perfect for my wife for a couple different reasons but she would need them 2-3 degrees flat.  I sent a note to Cleveland CS inquiring if they could be ordered flat. They said “yes” but at the present moment they were significantly behind in filling orders and weren’t providing that service.

 

The answer seems to imply there must be more to it than simply slapping them in a Mitchell and grabbing a bending bar.

New model will be coming this fall most likely. It’s odd that  one can still order them directly but no customization. That leads one to believe they just want to move what’s left I’d say, which sucks if one was needing them bent. Being behind in orders is a poor excuse for not bending irons I think. Can’t be much to it.

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9 hours ago, boggyman said:

New model will be coming this fall most likely. It’s odd that  one can still order them directly but no customization. That leads one to believe they just want to move what’s left I’d say, which sucks if one was needing them bent. Being behind in orders is a poor excuse for not bending irons I think. Can’t be much to it.

Directly from Cleveland's website on the HB Turbo irons........    THIS PRODUCT IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE THROUGH CLEVELANDGOLF.COM. WHILE SUPPLIES LAST, PLEASE VISIT ONE OF OUR AUTHORIZED DEALERS NEAR YOU. THANK YOU.

 

So not accepting orders from their website does not mean out of stock, but Cleveland/Srixon typically does this as stock gets really low on any product.

 

The next issue is the type of steel they are made from, they are obviously not forged, so they are not carbon steel.  Carbon steel is not used for casting mainly because of the viscosity and the fact that casting is cheaper and if you cast a 10 steel and then have to chrome it afterwards then you are killing your margins.  The golfing world has already been brain washed into thinking forged irons are softer, so why fight it and use carbon in vacuum casting to produce just as soft of a feeling head and lower your margins?   While they could be 8620(relatively soft) or even 303 or 403, more than likely because of the price point and many other items they are quite likely 17-4 or something similar or a variant.  This steel is incredibly hard to bend as it is a martensitic steel that is normally heat treated.  

 

If it is 17-4 I doubt anyone will bend more than a degree or two, as the chances of it breaking because of the hardness is pretty high.   I am not a professional club builder and I am sure there are some tips or tricks to bending 17-4 that I don't know, but many wood heads are built out of 17-4 and I have snapped more than one trying to open the face a degree or two cab in the day.

13 hours ago, Aviador Naval said:


Technically not true - although lamentably, effectively true.

 

HB Turbo would be perfect for my wife for a couple different reasons but she would need them 2-3 degrees flat.  I sent a note to Cleveland CS inquiring if they could be ordered flat. They said “yes” but at the present moment they were significantly behind in filling orders and weren’t providing that service.

 

The answer seems to imply there must be more to it than simply slapping them in a Mitchell and grabbing a bending bar.

Look at the Cobra T rails, they may work for her as well, and you can order individual irons direct from Cobra to try one out before buying a whole set.  Cobra will also bend them 2* flat on a direct order, they have men's and women's versions as well.

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3 hours ago, driveandputtmachine said:

Directly from Cleveland's website on the HB Turbo irons........    THIS PRODUCT IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE THROUGH CLEVELANDGOLF.COM. WHILE SUPPLIES LAST, PLEASE VISIT ONE OF OUR AUTHORIZED DEALERS NEAR YOU. THANK YOU.

 

So not accepting orders from their website does not mean out of stock, but Cleveland/Srixon typically does this as stock gets really low on any product.

 

The next issue is the type of steel they are made from, they are obviously not forged, so they are not carbon steel.  Carbon steel is not used for casting mainly because of the viscosity and the fact that casting is cheaper and if you cast a 10 steel and then have to chrome it afterwards then you are killing your margins.  The golfing world has already been brain washed into thinking forged irons are softer, so why fight it and use carbon in vacuum casting to produce just as soft of a feeling head and lower your margins?   While they could be 8620(relatively soft) or even 303 or 403, more than likely because of the price point and many other items they are quite likely 17-4 or something similar or a variant.  This steel is incredibly hard to bend as it is a martensitic steel that is normally heat treated.  

 

If it is 17-4 I doubt anyone will bend more than a degree or two, as the chances of it breaking because of the hardness is pretty high.   I am not a professional club builder and I am sure there are some tips or tricks to bending 17-4 that I don't know, but many wood heads are built out of 17-4 and I have snapped more than one trying to open the face a degree or two cab in the day.

Look at the Cobra T rails, they may work for her as well, and you can order individual irons direct from Cobra to try one out before buying a whole set.  Cobra will also bend them 2* flat on a direct order, they have men's and women's versions as well.

I hadn’t looked at the Cleveland site in a while. Sorry if my post was misleading in any way. Cleveland was top notch on both my custom sets of Launchers when ordered!! Nothing but good things too say on their customs department on my end!! 

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Keep your current hybrids and use the Cleveland Launcher HB's for your mid/short irons.  You'll love 'em.  The long irons in the HB set have some offset whereas the 6-W have very minimal offset.  

 

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On 5/5/2021 at 6:26 AM, sfdoddsy said:


In the case of the Cobras I was just fitted to, I took the fitters advice and they were ordered at 3 degrees up. He did the usual lie board test.

 

My PXGs were fitted 2 degrees flat to counter my draw, based on Trackman dynamic fitting.

 

I’ve done the Sharpie lie test with the PXGs and, strike differences aside, the line was quite vertical.

 

I haven’t done it with the Cobras. But after a couple of range sessions hitting club for club side by side it was pretty obvious that with my current swing 3 degrees upright wasn’t wise.

 

 

 
I think “lie board” is one of the most aptly named items in the universe. 🙃

 

I like the sharpie test, done on a grass range.

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      Link to more pics on the front-page... https://www.golfwrx.com/654804/phil-mickelson-witb-2021-may-pga-championship/
       

       
       
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    • Ping i59 irons - 2021 Wells Fargo Championship
      Ping i59 irons - 2021 Wells Fargo Championship
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