Jump to content

"Trackman is king outdoors"...."Trackman is superior, look how many pros use it"


Krt22
 Share

Recommended Posts

OK now that I have your attention, this is actually NOT a trackman vs  other debate. But these phrases have been repeated literally hundreds (if not thousands) of times on here so this slight change in popularity is interesting.

 

 I am really curious what perhaps has changed. I fully agree most of these players likely own a trackman as well, but on a Tuesday, hitting outdoors, on a pristine range, where they get to hit as many new gamer balls as they desire, why plop down the quad? Bryson has been well documented using both the quad and his flightscope, with folks saying he likes the quad for normalized data (I have repeated this reasoning myself). Is that it or are pros not really interested in carry numbers sometimes on the range and more interested in launch conditions alone, since carry numbers will vary from shot to shot? Or do they baseline distance daily before an actual tournament round? Or was this perhaps a COVID related anomaly? Many pros were forced to switch up their practice routines based on location , switched to the quad for indoor use and simply got comfortable with it? Anyone have tour level insight to share?

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/COeQuqENFC0/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

 

spacer.png

Edited by Krt22
Link to comment
Share on other sites

TM is definitely better at providing actual distance outdoors, because it's tracking the full flight of the ball, unlike GC Quad, which is calculating it based on initial launch conditions.  It's been reported that GC Quad has a SW issue whereby it overestimates carry distances on low spin driver shots.  I believe TM has the same issue indoors.  The plus side of GC Quad, is that it will always give "normalized" numbers, so if you want to know what stock distances are for no wind conditions, it's very helpful in dialing that in.  I think the combination of ease of set-up and the big technological leap for GC Quad was in providing good face & strike location data, (Which TM4 now also does), are probably the main reasons you're seeing it more with tour guys.  

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Three_Jack said:

Outdoors they are pretty much interchangeable. 
 

I think pros like Quad more cause its easier to setup and you don't need to have another device setup to read the data, you can simply look down at the quad to see the numbers.

 

 

That is the interesting part, on here it has been discussed exhaustively, with the main conclusion being that TM (and radar in general) is superior outdoors since you get the full ball flight. I cannot and will not deny that at all, I do believe radar outdoor is the most accurate method. So I found this picture quite peculiar.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Saltydawg15 said:

The pros know there distances, they are looking for attack angle, spin rate, launch angle, smash factor, etc. this tell them how well they struck the ball.

From Scott Hamilton they mostly are looking at distance - they want to know how far they carry given the conditions for that day which can change what might be their stock numbers back home.   Not really looking at all that much data when at a tournament.   

 

Sealed with a curse as sharp as a knife.  Doomed is your soul and damned is your life.

Laugh-a while you can, monkey boy.
Enjoy every sandwich

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, glk said:

From Scott Hamilton they mostly are looking at distance - they want to know how far they carry given the conditions for that day which can change what might be their stock numbers back home.   Not really looking at all that much data when at a tournament.   

A quad isn't going to give them that sort of data, which is why this picture is so odd and counter to a lot of what has been hashed out on here in the past.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

A quad isn't going to give them that sort of data, which is why this picture is so odd and counter to a lot of what has been hashed out on here in the past.

Not much of a lm person so have no idea of differences but if the quad doesn’t provide carry then that is a head scratcher.    Don’t recall what podcast Scott was on when he was talking  about guys getting ready for their round but definitely recall him saying carry was of most interest given conditions.   

 

Sealed with a curse as sharp as a knife.  Doomed is your soul and damned is your life.

Laugh-a while you can, monkey boy.
Enjoy every sandwich

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, glk said:

Not much of a lm person so have no idea of differences but if the quad doesn’t provide carry then that is a head scratcher.    Don’t recall what podcast Scott was on when he was talking  about guys getting ready for their round but definitely recall him saying carry was of most interest given conditions.   

A quad does not measure the full ball flight, only the first ~18" or so I believe and everything else is interpolated. It does provide carry numbers, but any environmental impact will be calculated not directly measured. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

GCQuad is considered to be more accurate for impact geometry. Some people need something to look at - it's almost an OCD thing for some. Radar is measured, not calculated as you say, so distance, so considered more accurate for carry.

 

I don't know how Tiger Woods and others could play golf without a launch monitor way back in 2015 or so.

  • Like 2
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You know what "average" means, right?  And that most golfers are probably at least 60 years old?

Callaway Mavrik Sub Zero 10.5° D Rogue White 130 MSI 70X

Mizuno ST-Z 15° 3W Ventus Blue Velocore 70X
Tour Edge Exotics EXS Pro 19° 3H HZRDUS Smoke Black 80X

                                                  Cobra King Pro MB 4-GW PURE'd Elevate Tour 115S
Edison 55°/59° DG 115 S200 Tour Issue
 LAB DF 2.1
Jumbomax JMX Ultralite XS wedges / S 3W-GW / M driver
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The elephant in the room here is $$. Foresight has been aggressively working to get the Quad more exposure on tour ranges. They are gladly giving them out to anyone who wants to use them at these events and in with the higher profile players even paying them to practice with a Quad nearby (sometimes the Quad isn't even turned on). They are also "selling" them at significant discounts to players and YouTubers (free in most cases) in an attempt to gain popularity and usage. It's certainly working. 

 

What is very interesting to me is that none of these pros using Quad on tour ranges have the stickers on their clubs so they are literally only getting ball data. This makes zero sense because normalized ball data is not as useful as actual data based on the conditions at the course. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, mgoblue83 said:

The elephant in the room here is $$. Foresight has been aggressively working to get the Quad more exposure on tour ranges. They are gladly giving them out to anyone who wants to use them at these events and in with the higher profile players even paying them to practice with a Quad nearby (sometimes the Quad isn't even turned on). They are also "selling" them at significant discounts to players and YouTubers (free in most cases) in an attempt to gain popularity and usage. It's certainly working. 

 

What is very interesting to me is that none of these pros using Quad on tour ranges have the stickers on their clubs so they are literally only getting ball data. This makes zero sense because normalized ball data is not as useful as actual data based on the conditions at the course. 

I am really not buying the money grab part of it. Unless you have something of substance to share, that is pure speculation IMHO

 

But the second part is largely why I asked the question. But how do you know they aren't using stickers? Are you a touring pro or a touring teacher and walk the line and peak at their clubs? Even if they are only using ball data, there is clearly something they see value in given they continue to grow in popularity.

 

Last question for you, do you own a trackman?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

I am really not buying the money grab part of it. Unless you have something of substance to share, that is pure speculation IMHO

 

But the second part is largely why I asked the question. But how do you know they aren't using stickers? Are you a touring pro or a touring teacher and walk the line and peak at their clubs? Even if they are only using ball data, there is clearly something they see value in given they continue to grow in popularity.

 

Last question for you, do you own a trackman?

 

I do not own a Trackman but I am friends with a Trackman rep and a True Temper rep who both frequent PGA tour events and work with players/coaches Monday-Wednesday on the ranges.

 

I do not have an answer about the value of GCQuad normalized ball data on an outdoor range but part of the answer for increased use is certainly ease of access (giving out Quads at events) and money (heavily discounted or even free for players).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They're both great tools, I just wish that they'd use a common method for calculating smash factor.  I went for a fitting on Monday on a Trackman 4, and the smash factor numbers on 6 irons was crazy high (1.44 average with my gamers, and 1.46 with the new irons), and that's with forged players cavity backs.  Consequently, CHS and SF between them is not comparable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, mgoblue83 said:

 

I do not own a Trackman but I am friends with a Trackman rep and a True Temper rep who both frequent PGA tour events and work with players/coaches Monday-Wednesday on the ranges.

 

I do not have an answer about the value of GCQuad normalized ball data on an outdoor range but part of the answer for increased use is certainly ease of access (giving out Quads at events) and money (heavily discounted or even free for players).

I know a pro (who already owns a TM) and looked into a quad, the discount was not substantial and he would be required to use it and display it at every event, so they are certainly not giving them away like candy.  Even if they were, It would still have to perform the same or in certain scenarios better outdoors for them to put them in use. At the end of the day 15-20k is nothing to these guys, there has to be some performance advantage casual aren't seeing IMHO.

 

5 minutes ago, hoganfan924 said:

They're both great tools, I just wish that they'd use a common method for calculating smash factor.  I went for a fitting on Monday on a Trackman 4, and the smash factor numbers on 6 irons was crazy high (1.44 average with my gamers, and 1.46 with the new irons), and that's with forged players cavity backs.  Consequently, CHS and SF between them is not comparable.

Ball speed is king. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

I know a pro (who already owns a TM) and looked into a quad, the discount was not substantial and he would be required to use it and display it at every event, so they are certainly not giving them away like candy.  Even if they were, It would still have to perform the same or in certain scenarios better outdoors for them to put them in use. At the end of the day 15-20k is nothing to these guys, there has to be some performance advantage casual aren't seeing IMHO.

 

Ball speed is king. 

 

Agreed. I don't know what that advantage is though. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The tour seems to have a lot of "copycat" for what is most successful at a given time. Dechambeau has been grinding with one of these for years and seems his success has given the Quads more credibility than they previously had.

 

From a functionality perspective the only thing I can think of is the Quad numbers are immediate after the moment of impact so no waiting until the ball lands and they seem easier to drop down and get setup without the burden of an extra ipad and getting the trackman ap up and going. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, davidy1948 said:

Trackman claims that the the average golfer has a swingspeed of 93.4 mph. I wouldn't rely on any instrument that is so far out of touch with WRXality....

 

 

FTFY 😉 

 

Ping G25 10.5* w/ Diamana 'ahina 70 x5ct stiff (set -0.5 to 10*)

Toski 4w 16* w/ DG S300

Wishon EQ1-NX 4h, 5i-GW single-length built to 37.5" w/ Nippon Modus3 120 stiff

Sub70 286 52/10, 286 56/12, and JB 60/6 wedges, black, built to 36.75" w/ Nippon Modus3 120 stiff

Odyssey White Hot XG #1 w/ SuperStroke jumbo

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is a fascinating topic. I've never used a Foresight, while I think I understand the concept I'm not that familiar. As they moved from the GC2 to the GC4, it seemed to be a real challenger to the radar units. I've used a Trackman 4 a number of times and own a Flightscope Xi Tour.

 

FWIW- Flightscope and Trackman offer very healthy discounts for pros, about 30%. I would imagine Foresight would have to do something similar to compete.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have lots of experience with a GC quad. I find It very accurate.. 

 

they are gaining tons of traction on tour as well.

 

image.jpeg.a2fa69262ad72c0958287ec55f9a2946.jpeg

Edited by QuigleyDU

Driver: Titleist TSi3 Ventus blue 6x

3 wood: Titleist Tsi2 15 Ventus blue 7x

& Wood: Titleist TSi2 Ventus Red 9X
Taylormade Gapr low 2 ventus blue 9x
4-PW Cobra king forged CB KBS $ Taper 130 X flex
Wedges 50, 54, 60 Cleveland ZIPCORE
PUTTER; LAB DF2.1
BALL; Bridgestone BX, OR Taylomade TP5x PIX

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

This picture is why I started the thread 😃 

sorry, I was looking at this on my phone and didnt notice the link.. But yeah, foresight is catching on in a big way.. 

Driver: Titleist TSi3 Ventus blue 6x

3 wood: Titleist Tsi2 15 Ventus blue 7x

& Wood: Titleist TSi2 Ventus Red 9X
Taylormade Gapr low 2 ventus blue 9x
4-PW Cobra king forged CB KBS $ Taper 130 X flex
Wedges 50, 54, 60 Cleveland ZIPCORE
PUTTER; LAB DF2.1
BALL; Bridgestone BX, OR Taylomade TP5x PIX

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Our picks

    • 2022 Farmers Insurance Open Photos - 26 WITBs & New Gear- Discussion and Links
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
      General Albums - 
       
      2022 Farmers Insurance Open - Monday #1
      2022 Farmers Insurance Open - Monday #2
      2022 Farmers Insurance Open - Monday #3
      2022 Farmers Insurance Open - Monday #4
       
       
      WITB Albums - 
       
      Hideki Matsuyama - WITB - 2022 Farmers Insurance Open
      Sung Kang - WITB - 2022 Farmers Insurance Open
      Adam Long - WITB - 2022 Farmers Insurance Open
      Brandon Wu - WITB - 2022 Farmers Insurance Open
      Jimmy Walker - WITB - 2022 Farmers Insurance Open
      Sam Burns - WITB - 2022 Farmers Insurance Open
      Xander Schauffele - WITB - 2022 Farmers Insurance Open
      Trey Mullinax - WITB - 2022 Farmers Insurance Open
      Daniel Berger - WITB - 2022 Farmers Insurance Open
      James Hahn - WITB - 2022 Farmers Insurance Open
      Phil Mickelson - WITB - 2022 Farmers Insurance Open
      Aaron Wise - WITB - 2022 Farmers Insurance Open
      Justin Thomas - WITB - 2022 Farmers Insurance Open
      Lee Hodges - WITB - 2022 Farmers Insurance Open
      Jordan Spieth - WITB - 2022 Farmers Insurance Open
      Cameron Champ - WITB - 2022 Farmers Insurance Open
      Kyle Stanley - WITB - 2022 Farmers Insurance Open
       
       
      Pullout Albums - 
       
      New Super Stroke grip - 2022 Farmers Insurance Open
      Tour Aim alignment aids - 2022 Farmers Insurance Open
      Swag Golf: Hideki's caddie bowing at Augusta, signed headcovers – 2022 Farmers Insurance Open
      Dylan Frittelli's Callaway Apex TCB Sand Wedge (1-of-1 proto) – 2022 Farmers Insurance Open
      Bryson DeChambeau's Cobra King LTDx 5-degree driver – 2022 Farmers Insurance Open
      NeuroPeak Pro NTel Belt - 2022 Farmers Insurance Open
      JumboMax JMX Zen Lite grips – 2022 Farmers Insurance Open
       
      Cameron Champ WITB has the new Ping i525

       
      Bryson's WITB has the new Cobra LTDx Driver 

       
      Phils new Rogue Driver

       
      Bryson's LAGolf Shaft in the driver

       
      Xander has the triple diamond "S" driver

       
      New SuperStroke grips for 2022

       
        • Thanks
      • 8 replies
    • 2022 The American Express WITB Photos (Spotted: New gear for 2022) - Discussion & Links
      Please put and comments or questions here
       
       
      Scotty Cameron putters - 2022 American Express
      New Taylor-Made putters - 2022 American Express
      New Odyssey putters - 2022 American Express
      New Axis 1 model putter - - 2022 American Express
      Patrick Cantlay - WITB - 2022 American Express
      Mitsubishi MMT putter shaft - 2022 American Express
      Ping putter - 2022 American Express
      Abraham Ancer - WITB - 2022 American Express
      Jason Dufner - WITB - 2022 American Express
      Will Zalatoris - WITB - 2022 American Express
      The Surgeon 6109 wedge - 2022 American Express
      LA Golf "DJ Series" shafts (2022 American Express)
       
       
       
      2022 American Express - Monday #1
       
       
       
       
      • 40 replies
    • Sony Open Pics from January 11, 2022 Part 1
      I was able to get out to the Sony Open today to take a few pics.  I guess due to Covid precautions they kept the spectators pretty far from the players.  Also due to camera restrictions they've put in place, I wasn't able to bring the big lens like I normally do. Hopefully they'll ease up on the ropes and I'll be able to get more pics tomorrow!
        • Thanks
        • Like
      • 22 replies
    • 2022 Callaway Rogue ST drivers (in-hand photos)
      2022 Callaway Rogue ST Max driver
       

       
      2022 Callaway Rogue ST Max D driver
       
      2021 Callaway Rogue ST Max 
       
      2022 Callaway Rogue ST Max LS driver

       
      2022 Callaway Rogue ST Triple Diamond LS

       
      Rogue ST exploded views
        • Like
      • 225 replies
    • Titleist Vokey SM9 Link on Wedge Works Coming Soon- UPDATED Pics Added Pg 4
      Looks like there is a link on Titleist Wedge Works for the new Vokey SM9, but doesn't show any photos yet.
       
      https://www.vokey.com/product/WM137.html#start=4
        • Thanks
        • Like
      • 237 replies

×
×
  • Create New...