Woods and hybrid onset and offset

chipa · May 5, 2021

Recently I bought a 2 hybrid with the face setback like an iron as opposed to the face being forward "onset". While the top line of the hybrid is set back the bottom line is slightly forward of the inside line of the shaft/hosel mostly because it has a curved face. If the face were flat it the bottom would be considered to have no offset per the iron standard of measuring the offset from the bottom of the face.

On the other hands as far as woods go it appears the offset is measured from the top line. Also, most woods have the top line just forward of the inside line of the shaft/hosel, except for woods designed to fix a severe slice.

Generally, having the top line offset in a wood implies the face would be more closed at impact all things being equal and this is why I hesitated to buy a hybrid wood head with the top line offset. Nonetheless, I noticed that some tour players have this setup so I bought one. It turns out I hit it better than other hybrids that I have bought that have the onset like a standard fairway wood. I also noticed that I can hook anything even if the face is onset 4 or 5 mm as some drivers have.

I understand the dynamics of the face being farther forward of the shaft implies the face is more open at impact in a perfect world, but then again I don't have a perfect swing and honestly I see the benefit of having my clubs set up the same so I went and ordered a driver head with a slight topline offset like the Cobra Max (2016). I feel like having everything look more or less the same at address may give me confidence and help me to hit the ball straighter.

I wonder if anyone else out there plays a driver with a slight topline offset even if they play a draw?

Stuart_G · May 6, 2021

15 hours ago, chipa said:

On the other hands as far as woods go it appears the offset is measured from the top line.

I know some people think that way (due to the visual appearance) but I don't believe I've ever seen any "official" definition of offset/onset that actually does define it based on the top line. As far as I'm aware, it's always officially measured from the leading edge of the face.

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Generally, having the top line offset in a wood implies the face would be more closed at impact all things being equal and this is why I hesitated to buy a hybrid wood head with the top line offset.

In woods, it's not really about the offset/onset. It's about the location of the c.g. (in addition to the shaft stiffness) that will dictate how much forward shaft bend and therefore how much face closure and how much loft added. In irons, the c.g. and offset tend to go together but that's not always the case in hybrids, fairways and drivers. The c.g. can be moved quite a bit w/o any apparent change to the offset/onset.

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Nonetheless, I noticed that some tour players have this setup so I bought one. It turns out I hit it better than other hybrids that I have bought that have the onset like a standard fairway wood. I also noticed that I can hook anything even if the face is onset 4 or 5 mm as some drivers have.

Be careful about assuming that the offset is the primary cause of the performance you're getting. The effect is pretty minimal compared to other factors of the clubs design. Face angle tends to have MUCH more of an effect on the shot shape control, also heel-toe c.g. location, swing weight, playing length, shaft weight, and even shaft flex. All of those things will typically play a much bigger part. Only those who are sensitive to the visual of the club at address and who make sub-conscious changes to the swing because of that visual will typically see any significant effect on the ball flight - and even that applies to face angle as well.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Stuart_G

chipa · May 6, 2021

2 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

I know some people think that way (due to the visual appearance) but I don't believe I've ever seen any "official" definition of offset/onset that actually does define it based on the top line. As far as I'm aware, it's always officially measured from the leading edge of the face.

In woods, it's not really about the offset/onset. It's about the location of the c.g. (in addition to the shaft stiffness) that will dictate how much forward shaft bend and therefore how much face closure and how much loft added. In irons, the c.g. and offset tend to go together but that's not always the case in hybrids, fairways and drivers. The c.g. can be moved quite a bit w/o any apparent change to the offset/onset.

Be careful about assuming that the offset is the primary cause of the performance you're getting. The effect is pretty minimal compared to other factors of the clubs design. Face angle tends to have MUCH more of an effect on the shot shape control, also heel-toe c.g. location, swing weight, playing length, shaft weight, and even shaft flex. All of those things will typically play a much bigger part. Only those who are sensitive to the visual of the club at address and who make sub-conscious changes to the swing because of that visual will typically see any significant effect on the ball flight - and even that applies to face angle as well.

I was comparing similar shafts, SX and X so apparently for me it is a visual thing. Also, none of the clubs I buy have the face closed plus I open them a little.

Stuart_G · May 6, 2021

23 minutes ago, chipa said:

I was comparing similar shafts, SX and X so apparently for me it is a visual thing. Also, none of the clubs I buy have the face closed plus I open them a little.

Very possible but face angle is a club spec that really needs to be measured. It's not about how you set it up at address. Same with the head c.g. location. Did you check and make sure the swing weight was the same? shaft weights? Same grip size?

chipa · May 6, 2021

29 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

Very possible but face angle is a club spec that really needs to be measured. It's not about how you set it up at address. Same with the head c.g. location. Did you check and make sure the swing weight was the same? shaft weights? Same grip size?

I build my own clubs and only order clubs with a square face. I also setup my clubs per std recommendations that I found on Golfsmith. I check the headweights with a scale and if they are off I will adjust accordingly. Regarding the hybrids I was comparing they were SX and X, the X's being the same shaft an Accuflex Assassin 72 grams with a 20 gram backweight (this is a great shaft for the money). I have a problem with hooking and have very little offset in my irons and have never used a wood with offset before because of what everyone says. However, I am convinced a little offset in the woods will not cause me to hook, on the contrary it will give me confidence as my clubs will look more similar at address.