The difference between GI irons and smaller heads. When did you switch? Or any other opinions on the subject

[Audi A-Fore]

I always say to my friends, "play the most forgiving iron you're willing to look at". I also ask my friends to stack rank the following things that matter to them:

• Performance
• Forgiveness
• Feel
• Looks 
• Distance

People have their preferences and a "I grew up playing blades" player will never switch to GI irons, their #1-2 is always look and feel. I also have low handicap friends that don't care about looks and feel and play GI or even SGI irons because performance is #1 (and 2 and 3) for them. 

 

I'm a 4-5 index, I know my weakpoint is my GIR stats, so I go with point and shoot 5-7 irons (standard Apex '19) and cavity back irons in 8-PW (Apex Pro '19). I hit a lot of partial or feel shots with my shorter irons and had trouble early on with clubs that were a bit hot, so the combo set affords the best of both worlds. I would even go with SGI long irons (say Apex DCB) if the offset was reduced and the gapping was alright. I would probably rank the above differently for my short irons vs my long:

 

Short - Performance, feel, forgiveness, looks, distance

Long - Performance, forgiveness, distance, looks, feel 

 

The great thing about the current market is that there are offerings across the entire spectrum - SGI, GI, Distance, "Players" distance irons (P790, Apex Pro '21, Miz HMB), "players" GI (compact, loaded with tech - T100, Miz MMC, p770), cavity backs, blades. 

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Audi A-Fore

[kthomas]

I've been playing Ping Raptures for over a decade now. I love these irons, I have a nice straight and high ball flight. For my handicap, I'm a pretty good ball striker, my struggles and scoring inconsistencies come from the short game. 

 

I've always wanted to try something like the Callaway Apex MB's. I just think they look beautiful. The Cobra Forge Tec that mtlJeff referenced look amazing as well. I've always wondered if I would prefer the turf interaction with a club such as these over my Rapture's. 

 

Perhaps one day I'll try some, I can't justify the switch at the moment given how the Raptures are working for me combined with the fact that I'm currently not making an income. 

[Pepperturbo]

I switched from Ping off-the-shelf to Mizuno blades about 8-9mons after taking up the game late in life.  But there is NO time period or outside influence that dictates our choice in equipment.  I have been playing MB's and classic Player cavity irons ever since.  IMO it has everything to do with how we perceive ourselves tackling the game.

 

Let me point out, GI irons are NOT as easy to work as MBs.  The difference is the user's attention to detail, MB size of sweet spot and no forgiveness vs. CBs large amount of forgiveness wrapped around an even larger sweet spot and weighting.   The nature of CB forgiveness is what limits its workability.  That's not to say it can't be worked, it's to say, how much it can be worked is found in its design difference.  I get a bit of a kick watching friends hit my MB 3i vs. their CB 3i, if they even carry one.  Watch Bubba Watson work the ball in extremes using Ping S55.  Watch Justin Thomas work the ball, subtly with 620MBs.

 

In any case, my initial goal was single digit as fast as possible (made it 4yrs+) and be a solid ball striker.  Thirty years later, I play 620 MBs mixed with 620 CBs, hit the ball straight, work the ball both ways and between 3-4 handi (not sure how long that will last.)  Be patient and stay focused.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Pepperturbo

[JermWRX]

6 hours ago, rgk5 said:

Once again we have the chorus of 10+ handicappers who can work the ball both ways at will.  If you truly can do that, you must be the worst putter, short game artisan or driver in existence. Face path and strike postion are the two most important criteria in determining trajectory, spin and directional control.

 

A guy at my club has won the C. Champ. 26 times and he has used everything from Ping ISI-K's to Big Berthas to Nike blades. His ball striking never varied. As mentioned earlier, many Tour Events were won by Ping Eye 2s, Armour 845s, Titleist DCIs and so on.

I don’t even try to work the ball. I just focus on good contact and hitting it straight. If I get in trouble I work my way out of it by getting back into position, rather than trying to bend the ball. Might cost me a stroke, but it helps keep the bigger numbers down. I play boring golf. Just work on keeping everything straight.

[JermWRX]

Thanks everyone!! Lots of great info in this thread. Appreciate all the responses and I’ll take many of these ideas into consideration. Thanks again!!!😀

[JermWRX]

3 hours ago, Audi A-Fore said:

I always say to my friends, "play the most forgiving iron you're willing to look at". I also ask my friends to stack rank the following things that matter to them:

• Performance
• Forgiveness
• Feel
• Looks 
• Distance

People have their preferences and a "I grew up playing blades" player will never switch to GI irons, their #1-2 is always look and feel. I also have low handicap friends that don't care about looks and feel and play GI or even SGI irons because performance is #1 (and 2 and 3) for them. 

 

I'm a 4-5 index, I know my weakpoint is my GIR stats, so I go with point and shoot 5-7 irons (standard Apex '19) and cavity back irons in 8-PW (Apex Pro '19). I hit a lot of partial or feel shots with my shorter irons and had trouble early on with clubs that were a bit hot, so the combo set affords the best of both worlds. I would even go with SGI long irons (say Apex DCB) if the offset was reduced and the gapping was alright. I would probably rank the above differently for my short irons vs my long:

 

Short - Performance, feel, forgiveness, looks, distance

Long - Performance, forgiveness, distance, looks, feel 

 

The great thing about the current market is that there are offerings across the entire spectrum - SGI, GI, Distance, "Players" distance irons (P790, Apex Pro '21, Miz HMB), "players" GI (compact, loaded with tech - T100, Miz MMC, p770), cavity backs, blades. 

 

So you sound a bit like me. I definitely want the thump of the 7 and 8 iron. But I play a variety of touch shots and shorter swings with my short irons. I really like 3/4 or even 1/2 backswing shots inside of 130 or so. I was thinking of grabbing an i210 PW and seeing how it goes. I’m not sure if the lofts will blend since my 710s are jacked and power spec, but maybe that’s the easiest way to see if I like them. Who knows maybe I’d need 2 different 8 irons for gapping😂

[JermWRX]

5 hours ago, Dannyboy44 said:

I played Ping G25's and wanted something less chunky so I switched to PXG 0311 xf irons bc to me they were a little less chunky but still had the confidence. I now want to go to something along the lines of p790 or gen 3 P irons but im not sure if it will be a waste of money so i scheduled a fitting for next month at club champion. I figured the $150 will be a good investment before i drop another grand or more on a new set. 

Wait a minute... A fitting???!!! I thought all you crazy WRXer folks just buy multiple sets and then sell them to each other on here😂😂

[Audi A-Fore]

Yah, you'd start with the clubs actual lofts to figure out a split set. Then you want to hit them to make sure the yardage gaps are consistent (10-15y gaps, not 5y). The i210's would be a good transition. You could definitely start with a few scoring clubs - PW, 9i. 

 

Again, if it's not broke, don't fix it. If you can hit partial shots with your current clubs, then don't change. My buddy is a 3-4 and he plays with TM SGI irons, he is able to do whatever he wants with them. Look at it this way, pro's are playing 7w because they flat out work. Who cares what your friends are playing! 

[hammergolf]

8 hours ago, rgk5 said:

Once again we have the chorus of 10+ handicappers who can work the ball both ways at will.  If you truly can do that, you must be the worst putter, short game artisan or driver in existence. Face path and strike postion are the two most important criteria in determining trajectory, spin and directional control.

 

A guy at my club has won the C. Champ. 26 times and he has used everything from Ping ISI-K's to Big Berthas to Nike blades. His ball striking never varied. As mentioned earlier, many Tour Events were won by Ping Eye 2s, Armour 845s, Titleist DCIs and so on.

Exactly. Not to mention grooves... There’s a reason there is a restriction on grooves but not cg  location. 

Edited May 6, 2021 by hammergolf

[blues72]

8 hours ago, rgk5 said:

Once again we have the chorus of 10+ handicappers who can work the ball both ways at will.

I fall into this category.  Handicap is around 10 and I can shape shots.  However, shaping a shot and controlling where it lands with precision are two very different things!!  (For the record, my stock shot is basically straight, with a grab bag of different misses!! Lol!)

[Righty to Lefty]

15 hours ago, MattC555 said:

I disagree.  I find my blades much easier to work than my Ping G15's.  I can work the ball with either set, but the blades are much more sensitive to spin inputs. 

Science disagrees with your assertion! The build or type of club has no bearing on tilting the spin axis as it is a face to path relationship regardless of whether the club is a blade or not.  A blade is also no more or less sensitive to "spin inputs" as you say as that would also go against the science and would mean that blades play by different rules than other clubs and they simply do not! 

 

I can see where you would think that especially if a GI club's design has the CoG as low as possible but in that case you can't compare clubs of the same number such as  7 iron to 7 iron (they aren't likely the same loft anyway!).  If the club launches dramatically lower then your assertion could be valid but I find that I hit clubs of the same loft in very close to the same shot window regardless of the club type and I have never hit clubs of the same loft that launch dramatically different especially of the club's spec's are also in the same in regards to total and swing weight and the only variable is the club head.  I hit my 34* Miura LH cavity and my 34* Cleveland 588 Altitude irons the exact same yardage and the shot window is only a touch higher with the Altitudes (like 3 feet).  

[MattC555]

5 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Science disagrees with your assertion! The build or type of club has no bearing on tilting the spin axis as it is a face to path relationship regardless of whether the club is a blade or not.  A blade is also no more or less sensitive to "spin inputs" as you say as that would also go against the science and would mean that blades play by different rules than other clubs and they simply do not! 

 

I can see where you would think that especially if a GI club's design has the CoG as low as possible but in that case you can't compare clubs of the same number such as  7 iron to 7 iron (they aren't likely the same loft anyway!).  If the club launches dramatically lower then your assertion could be valid but I find that I hit clubs of the same loft in very close to the same shot window regardless of the club type and I have never hit clubs of the same loft that launch dramatically different especially of the club's spec's are also in the same in regards to total and swing weight and the only variable is the club head.  I hit my 34* Miura LH cavity and my 34* Cleveland 588 Altitude irons the exact same yardage and the shot window is only a touch higher with the Altitudes (like 3 feet).  

 

Science?  What science?  An anecdotal youtube video?  Or a limited scope paper from ages ago?

 

The G15's fly higher on my launch monitor compared to my MP68's due to their construction making them harder to flight.  The offset makes fades more difficult.  The G15 iron of the same number flies higher even though the lofts are stronger.  I can work either set, but find my blades much easier to work.  It is not easy for me to keep the G15 low or fade it.  It is easier for me to hit them high and straightish. 

 

I've hit many irons that launch dramatically different.  Especially these new GI hollow irons with hot faces.  I recently was shopping for replacements for my MP68s, and hit just about everything currently out there.  Many felt and performed similar.  Some didn't.  Ended up ordering MP20s.  YMMV

[Righty to Lefty]

46 minutes ago, MattC555 said:

 

Science?  What science?  An anecdotal youtube video?  Or a limited scope paper from ages ago?

 

The G15's fly higher on my launch monitor compared to my MP68's due to their construction making them harder to flight.  The offset makes fades more difficult.  The G15 iron of the same number flies higher even though the lofts are stronger.  I can work either set, but find my blades much easier to work.  It is not easy for me to keep the G15 low or fade it.  It is easier for me to hit them high and straightish. 

 

I've hit many irons that launch dramatically different.  Especially these new GI hollow irons with hot faces.  I recently was shopping for replacements for my MP68s, and hit just about everything currently out there.  Many felt and performed similar.  Some didn't.  Ended up ordering MP20s.  YMMV

Offset does not change the fact that the club face is flat and it also doesn't counter the effects of face and club path on tilting the spin axis creating ball flight.  The two clubs are within a degree of each other in loft and the CoG being a few millimeters lower make them launch a bit higher but any shot that can be hit with a blade can be replicated the same way with a GI club. 

[trilerian]

22 hours ago, rgk5 said:

Once again we have the chorus of 10+ handicappers who can work the ball both ways at will.  If you truly can do that, you must be the worst putter, short game artisan or driver in existence. Face path and strike postion are the two most important criteria in determining trajectory, spin and directional control.

 

Not sure why people have issues believing you have to be a low cap to work the ball.  I hit about 8 - 10 large buckets of balls at the range every week, most of those are hit with my irons.  I spend almost no time practicing my short game, with the exception of putting at home on my birdie ball.  Like a poster above said, I can work the ball both ways, but that doesn't mean it goes the same amount every time.  Sometimes it is 5 yds, sometimes it is 30 yds.  On the range I can groove it in and get pretty consistent, on the course it is a crap shoot.  

[MattC555]

58 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Offset does not change the fact that the club face is flat and it also doesn't counter the effects of face and club path on tilting the spin axis creating ball flight.  The two clubs are within a degree of each other in loft and the CoG being a few millimeters lower make them launch a bit higher but any shot that can be hit with a blade can be replicated the same way with a GI club. 

 

Yes, any shot can be hit with both clubs.  But, as I said, I find the blades easier to work and therefore more sensitive to inputs.  I referred to my G15s as my sledgehammers for a reason.  They were great.  I used them for a decade.  But, their geometry was designed for forgiveness, stopping slices, and high ball flight.  

 

To answer the OP question:  I switched when I was able to hit more balls.  I played blades/forged cavities in high school and college.  After I started my career I was playing infrequently.  At that time I decided to switch to a GI, as my ball striking was so so.  A decade later and I'm back to hitting 500+ balls a week and sick of hitting the aformentioned sledgehammers.  Picked up some used MP68s to see if I still could game them and just ordered custom MP20s.  I fully expect them to have little to no effect on my scoring, but I certainly have more fun hitting them.      

Edited May 7, 2021 by MattC555

[hammergolf]

On 5/6/2021 at 11:22 AM, Dannyboy44 said:

I played Ping G25's and wanted something less chunky so I switched to PXG 0311 xf irons bc to me they were a little less chunky but still had the confidence. I now want to go to something along the lines of p790 or gen 3 P irons but im not sure if it will be a waste of money so i scheduled a fitting for next month at club champion. I figured the $150 will be a good investment before i drop another grand or more on a new set. 

I’ve been playing g25’s for a long time. I’ve wanted to switch, but frankly could never find anything to outperform them while not feeling clicky. Can you give me a comparison between your g25’s and 0311 XF’s? I’m thinking about those, and a couple others. To me, it seems like the XF’s are the best of all worlds.

[Dannyboy44]

1 hour ago, hammergolf said:

I’ve been playing g25’s for a long time. I’ve wanted to switch, but frankly could never find anything to outperform them while not feeling clicky. Can you give me a comparison between your g25’s and 0311 XF’s? I’m thinking about those, and a couple others. To me, it seems like the XF’s are the best of all worlds.

ill do the best i can. When it comes to distance there pretty much the same. Dispersion was better for me slightly when i got fir for them. The fitters told me not to buy new clubs bc i hit the g25s good enough to not justify the purchase but i wanted something less chunky and more workable. At adress i still get the confidence with the xf’s and i have found i can work the ball a little better. Forgiveness with the xf’s is amazing maybe even a little better for me than the g25s which is hard to do. If you get them maybe spend little extra and get fit for shaft that best suits you as well. I tried 8 different shafts to get my distance, dispersion and flight i wanted so im sure thats helped my game alot to. Overall i am glad i bought them and theyve improved my game i think. 

Edited May 7, 2021 by Dannyboy44

[hammergolf]

51 minutes ago, Dannyboy44 said:

ill do the best i can. When it comes to distance there pretty much the same. Dispersion was better for me slightly when i got fir for them. The fitters told me not to buy new clubs bc i hit the g25s good enough to not justify the purchase but i wanted something less chunky and more workable. At adress i still get the confidence with the xf’s and i have found i can work the ball a little better. Forgiveness with the xf’s is amazing maybe even a little better for me than the g25s which is hard to do. If you get them maybe spend little extra and get fit for shaft that best suits you as well. I tried 8 different shafts to get my distance, dispersion and flight i wanted so im sure thats helped my game alot to. Overall i am glad i bought them and theyve improved my game i think. 

Thanks!

[GatorNate11]

On 5/6/2021 at 11:05 AM, rgk5 said:

you must be the worst putter, short game artisan or driver in existence.

I'm not even the 10 you're referring to and I feel personally attacked. It's like you know me. 

[Texas Golfer]

I play different irons from blades to SGI.  What I have noticed is that the SGI has more consistent distance but more left or right dispersion than blades. It’s not from hooks and slices, but just slight pushes and pulls.  

[jamgam]

I don't find a ton of difference.  I play both types and honestly my score doesn't change a whole lot.  As said above I notice that SGI irons typically get the distance on misstrikes but man the dispersion get's wild while blades lose distance but have tighter dispersion.  Visually there's not a ton of difference to me.  Picture below is a Golfsmith Pro Forged blade on the left (circa 2001) and a Srixon ZX5 on the right

 

I didn't line them up great but there's not a ton of difference here