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2nd Swing Fitting, Tour Van Fitting OR Club Champion?


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I am turning 50 this summer and thought I'd treat myself to a fitting if for nothing more than to get the basics (correct lie angle, shaft weight, flex, club head/ball speed, launch angle and spin rate). I have looked at a full bag fitting at 2nd swing for $150 for the basic full bag package (waived if I buy something) 1.5 hours OR the tour van fitting 2 hours for $600 but need to spend $2000 for that to be "waived". Club Champion is $350 for 3.5 hours for the full bag. Probably wouldnt buy anything from them due to the horror stories I have read about here.

 

It's not like I am really in the market for clubs, but in true ho form, why not? and I am sure I can surely find SOMETHING to buy.

 

Has anyone gone through this process? Is one better than the other? is the basic package good enough? 

 

Any input would be greatly appreciated

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I also tinker with my own.  Have learned a ton of stuff from others on this site.  Will give you my own experience on this.  I live in a rural area so basically had to learn on my own.  Austad's happe

I do tinker. I just threw new shafts into my irons and feel confident doing my own work.   Stuart is right, I could shop around here or flea bay n get something that catches my eye cheaper t

Yes, the shaft is very important.  But the mizzy optimizer can't take the place of a good fitter.   At best it can only provide a starting place for the fitter and maybe shorten the fitting time for s

I don't know about 2nd swing, but Club Champion is USUALLY pretty solid when it comes to fitters.  Disclaimer:  really depends on the fitter working at the time.  Tour Van fittings are awesome and very comprehensive although steep in price.  They usually use trackman or flightscope which are 2 of the best launch monitors IMO.  It's really up to you.  My cousin has done Club Champion and I was there to watch.  I've done a Tour Van fitting once and luckily one of my good buddies works for one and I got a really good deal on the fitting and bought about 1k worth of equipment from him. 

TM SIM 2, 8* w/Ventus Black 7x

TM SIM 15* w/TB 80x

TM Tour Issue Deep Face Ghost Proto TP 2 HB  w/Thump 105x

New Level NLU-01 21* w/KBS Proto 105x

New Level 623-M 5-PW w/MMT 125 TX

54* Miura HB w/KBS 610 S+, 58* Miura w/KBS Tour Black

Scotty Cameron Studio Select Newport 1

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, buckrogers71 said:

I am turning 50 this summer and thought I'd treat myself to a fitting if for nothing more than to get the basics (correct lie angle, shaft weight, flex, club head/ball speed, launch angle and spin rate). I have looked at a full bag fitting at 2nd swing for $150 for the basic full bag package (waived if I buy something) 1.5 hours OR the tour van fitting 2 hours for $600 but need to spend $2000 for that to be "waived". Club Champion is $350 for 3.5 hours for the full bag. Probably wouldnt buy anything from them due to the horror stories I have read about here.

 

It's not like I am really in the market for clubs, but in true ho form, why not? and I am sure I can surely find SOMETHING to buy.

 

Has anyone gone through this process? Is one better than the other? is the basic package good enough? 

 

Any input would be greatly appreciated

Maybe you can help me understand something...why would anyone get fit for a set of golf clubs that they have no intention purchasing? Isn't that just a waste of $$$? As I understand, fitting isn't a roller coaster ride that you "experience," it's a means to an end. 


What am I missing?

Titleist TSi3 w/Oban Kiyoshi White 6X 
Titleist TSi2 15 degree w/Accra TZ6 75 M5

Titleist TSi2 21 degree w/Accra TZ6 75 M5 

Srixon ZX5 4-6 w/KBS TGI 110 (SS 1x) @1/2" over standard

Srixon ZX7 7-PW w/KBS TGI 110 (SS 1x) @1/2" over standard
Titleist Vokey SM8 Raw 50/54/58 KBS TGI 110 (SS 1x) @1/2" over standard
Toulon Las Vegas custom w/BGT Tour 

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17 minutes ago, liveagua said:

Maybe you can help me understand something...why would anyone get fit for a set of golf clubs that they have no intention purchasing? Isn't that just a waste of $$$? As I understand, fitting isn't a roller coaster ride that you "experience," it's a means to an end. 


What am I missing?

 

Sounds like he doesn't intend to purchase the clubs from Club Champion.  Once he has the specs from the fitting, there are a lot of other options for getting the clubs at a much better price.

 

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22 minutes ago, GLF4EVR said:

One question I would have is if you "tinker" with your own clubs?

 

I do tinker. I just threw new shafts into my irons and feel confident doing my own work.

 

Stuart is right, I could shop around here or flea bay n get something that catches my eye cheaper than what 2nd swing would charge n definitely cheaper than club champion 

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I also tinker with my own.  Have learned a ton of stuff from others on this site.  Will give you my own experience on this.  I live in a rural area so basically had to learn on my own.  Austad's happen to open up a store over an hours drive from where I live a few years ago.  I had always wanted to try a fitting just to see if I was even close on what I had done.  I had scheduled a full bag fitting that was something like $150 & that would be waived if you purchased equipment.  It was to be 1.5 hours.

 

I drove up for the appointment & the store owner was the only one on duty at the time.  Other employee had a medical emergency.  I had plenty of time so we proceeded with the fitting with several stops for him to help other customers.  Flightscope was used along with other programs like shaft fitters and the like.  The guy really took his time & had me hit a variety for shots with each club.  I was kind of frustrated with myself because that day most of my shots keep fading when I was not wanting it to, hips were turning early.  Fitter finally convinced me not to worry about it.  He was seeing the same thing with the hips.  Went thru every club I had including balls & putter.  I was there well over 3 hours total.  He did not tell me anything about the fitting until we were totally done.

 

The final analysis was to play with the bounce a little on my wedges (52 & 58).  He wanted me to wait until I made a decision on the bounce before getting new wedges.  Once I had that, he recommended new Titleist wedges (did that last year...big change).  My driver was an SLDR, 3 wood is a R580, old Ping Eye 2-2 iron, 3-PW Titleist 735cm irons, 2 old Vokey oil can wedges, & a 2-balls center shaft putter.  He tole me I have all my distances & gaps covered.  If I got new equipment I would have to go thru a learning curve on distances & may need to adjust clubs to fit all the gaps.  In short...keep exactly what you have & keep doing what I have been doing.

 

Only charged me $60 and got a bunch of promo stuff that he had around.  Just the piece of mind that I had actually been correct in my building made it the best $60 I have ever spent. 

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I would think the van might be the best option as far as a good fitting. I have not been impressed with what I hear about CC. I have only bought online from 2nd swing.

Taylormade M3 driver Mitsubishi Kuro Kage TiNi 70G shaft (cut to 44.5")

Taylormade M1 5 wood

Taylormade M4 19* Hybrid 

Taylormade GAPR Mid 21* Hybrid

KZG Forged 2-M cavity back 4-6 

KZG Forged Blade 7-PW

Mitsubishi Kuro Kage 80g iron shafts

Lazrus 52/8 and 56/12 wedges

Tour "Percision" [sic] Milled TP-M5 putter

Golf Pride Concept Helix grips

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Posted (edited)

For the price, CC is a better deal.

I did a putter fitting with them that was great. I ask my fitter about a package for Driver/Hybrids and he pretty much comped me.

Their prices for clubs are a bit high, but I priced the same driver I was fit for and it was only about 50$ less from the OEMs ( Ping, Titleist who don't budge on MAP. ), and $20 of that was upcharge over retail for the shaft, $8 for the grip I wanted.

Edited by RainShadow
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Ping G400 10.5 (9.5*)Oban Devotion 6/04
Callaway Rogue 17* 4wd Atmos Blue TS 70  
Ping G410 19*, 22* & 26* Tensei CK Pro Blue 80
Cobra Forged Tec Black 6-GW SteelFiber i95cw R  
Mack Daddy PM 2.0 54/14
Mack Daddy PM 2.0 58/12

Bettinardi Innovai Rev 6.0 crescent neck @ 33”

TM Tour Response/ ProV1/ Chrome Soft TT

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I would find a place that uses the Mizuno 3D shaft optimizer.  After doing my research, I feel this will be the best.  The shaft is probably the most important part in my opinion.  I’m looking at Sub70 and to be able to take those specs to them and then have my clubs built.  The place near me is $150, waived with purchase, and they will order any clubhead.  

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10 hours ago, NJBigFish22 said:

I would find a place that uses the Mizuno 3D shaft optimizer.  After doing my research, I feel this will be the best.  The shaft is probably the most important part in my opinion.  I’m looking at Sub70 and to be able to take those specs to them and then have my clubs built.  The place near me is $150, waived with purchase, and they will order any clubhead.  

 

Yes, the shaft is very important.  But the mizzy optimizer can't take the place of a good fitter.   At best it can only provide a starting place for the fitter and maybe shorten the fitting time for some individuals.   It can also help out a mediocre or less skilled fitter - but it can't keep them from making mistakes in the fitting.

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3 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Yes, the shaft is very important.  But the mizzy optimizer can't take the place of a good fitter.   At best it can only provide a starting place for the fitter and maybe shorten the fitting time for some individuals.   It can also help out a mediocre or less skilled fitter - but it can't keep them from making mistakes in the fitting.

I agree that if the person doesn’t know how to incorporate or use the data as part of a real fitting, then the results may not be optimal.  

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Having done both, go with the tour van. Both fittings are basically the same thing but the tour van will come without Club Champion's ridiculous pricing and tactics. Plus with a tour van, if they have something used that fits you can do that and save some money. I actually got fit at 2nd swing by a guy who used to work for CC so yeah...same exact thing but I didn't get some guy trying to convince me to buy a $2500 set of irons.

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I didn't get a fitting but I spent quite a lot of time on Trackman last year during lessons. It is fantastic!

 

I'd advise that you make the decision based on what technology is available and what you're looking to try (e.g. variety of shaft options). 

SIM Dr (10.5o) (Tensei Pro Orange 60TX)
SIM 3w (17o) (Tensei Pro White 60TX)

M6 7w (21o) (Diamana Blue 70S)

z785 (4-Pw) (Modus3 Tour120)
SM6 52-F / 56-F / 60-S
Newport 2 Select

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I have been to CC and wasn't pleased with the end result. For one I learned that an indoor fitting is not what I personally liked. I need to see the ball fly through the air. Thats a personal preference. Secondly I found out that the metal attachment CC uses to swap all the shafts in/out of the heads is heavier than the regular adapter that comes with whichever head you choose. That throws off the stiffness of the shaft. There is a good thread on here about it. I ended up getting refit bc I had a big two way miss going. driver was too heavy and not stiff enough so they tipped it and made it even worse bc the launch was too low and too light. Me personally would never recommend CC

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Not sure where the OP is located, but I’ve done three fittings in my life (in order of how I liked them):

3. Club Champion - I’d rate this a 6.5/10. If I considered all the troubles I had with some of the clubs I ordered I’d give it a 4/10. The have a TON of shaft and head options, but I found that they were hesitant to get me into exactly what fit just right because it was less expensive - my old irons had DG S200 shafts, they didn’t want to fit me into anything that “cheap” until I forced them to find one so we could compare. 
2. “Country Club” lie board fitting. This was 20+ years ago. Ping and Titleist and Henry Griffits. This was the only fitting I’ve done that was 100% outdoors and while it has its downsides for SURE (lie boards only get you so far) it was monumental to see the flight of the ball and how it changed with each modification that our pro made. Rank this one an 8/10 at the time. Nowadays I’m sure they add a GC Quad or similar. 
1. Izett Golf in Philly area. Hands down the best fitting I’ve ever had. I wasn’t rushed, Mike explained every single thing that was going on. This was a combo indoor and then outdoor fitting. Indoor they went through True Temper’s old system that looks at how you load the club as opposed to looking at club head speed, etc. This is the fitting that got me into the DG. I have since tinkered with a lot of other shafts, including at the CC fitting and none of them even compared. Outdoor was used to confirm after they built me a “new 7 iron” that it was performing as intended. Outdoor was also used for driver testing.
 

Mike and his crew I think are the best in the business. I can’t imagine too many others out there that are better. If you are near Philly at all, I definitely recommend their fitting. I’m buying my dad one this summer when he comes to visit. 

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Buy a loft,lie  and a swingweight scale!Then you can Really Tinker!

2020 18 July mid winterNZ
Ping Rapture 2006 10.5
Nike VrS 3wood
Callaway Razr Edge5 wood

MP100=33 9876 5/mp63
54     RTX2
60     RTX2
ProPlatinum NewportTwo
2002 325gram +8.NewGrip
Dont hesitate to buy one!






 

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On 5/7/2021 at 12:28 PM, buckrogers71 said:

I guess I'd just really like to know what my specs are so I can either adjust what I have OR buy something.

 

A couple of thoughts for you from someone who believes deeply in the fitting process.

 

1. In any fitting at any facility, the quality of the fitting is all about the quality of the fitter.  There is both art and science to club fitting, and I'd urge you to get to somebody that you have heard good things about.  Walking in and taking pot luck, even at a dedicated facility like Club Champion, is risky business.

 

2. Understand that your "specs" are going to be at least somewhat club dependent; they don't exactly translate from one brand to another perfectly.  There are NO industry standards for what constitutes a neutral lie angle, so 3* upright in a Ping iron might or might not be the same as in a Titleist iron.  Similarly, adjustable clubs and different models change things from brand to brand and over time.  I was fitted in a G30 driver to the "big plus" setting, but in the G400, I was fit to neutral.  I tried the G400 in the big plus setting, and hooked it off the world, and that was the same company and only two generations of difference.

 

3.  Before you go to ANY club fitter, be clear in your own mind what you are trying to do.  Do you want to be longer, or straighter, or more consistent, or what?  Club fitting isn't a miracle cure; it's a way of eliminating (or at least reducing) variables in ball flight.  So, for instance, if you currently drive the ball 220 on average, there is NO club that going to get you to 260 unless your current driver is the worst fit in the world.  BUT you might very well find a driver that gives you 10-15 yards AND better dispersion; tIhat is entirely within the realm of possibility.  Irons, even more than drivers, are about better misses, so you need to have clear ideas of what you are trying to "fix".

 

4. When you go, take your old clubs (and if it's an indoor fitting, the golf ball you use) and hit them enough on the monitor to get a baseline for what's going on now.  Then, as you try different combinations during the fitting, have a notepad to write stuff down if the fitter can't give you a printout of what's going on; it can all run together pretty quickly.

 

5. Last, ask questions as the fitter makes changes and tweaks.  If he's really good, he'll be telling you anyway, but if he changes a shaft or a head, ask him what he's trying to do with the new club, or what he didn't like about the old one if you can't tell yourself. 

 

Whichever way you go, enjoy the process.  A good club fitting is a joy to go thru, and the results can be significant.

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I have the full bag and putter fittings at 2nd Swing.  I was happy with the experiences.  Full bag was mostly bring your current clubs and the fitter pulled a ton of used clubs to see if any of them could beat what you already were using.  I like that empirical methodology.  We looked at data to assure the spin rates and apexes were good enough.  That matches my philosophy on club fitting and data analysis.  Being a data scientist, I can look at data and know right away if the results are different or the same between different clubs.  That's one thing about 2nd Swing, they are not trying to fit you into X head with Y shaft.  They have what they have.  And out of the 30 or 50 drivers they have in inventory, you should be able to find a few that work for you.  After the fitting they sent me an email with a link to Trackman with video and data of every shot I hit.  Once we settled on the clubs, they adjusted the lies and checked the lofts.  To be fair, my fitter had a bias against Ping G series clubs for me, saying they were too shovely for me but I had them in a rental set and liked them more than what I bought at 2nd Swing.  A good thing is there was no talk about budget.  They didn't push to buy anything.  They had a selection of different balls and used my gamer as the test ball.  

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