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Did I buy "too much" club (JPX900 forged irons)?


bzogster
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Hi All,

 

I used to play golf pretty often in high school and was probably around 12-15 handicap. I was never the greatest around the green and was inconsistent driving the ball straight, but my irons were always pretty consistent and straight (Titleist 762). I'm 33 now and trying to get back into the swing of things. About three years ago, I decided I wanted to try some new sticks, and my cousin (scratch golfer) recommended Mizuno JPX900 forged to me and had a Mizuno rep who gave me a deal at cost essentially, so I went for it. Probably a mistake on my part trusting that they would be a good fit for me and not going through a fitting. Shortly after that, I started a new project at work and was extremely busy with it until finishing it early this year, and didn't have much time to golf. So, these clubs probably have a couple rounds on them plus range time.

 

Anyways, I've got to the range twice in the last 10 days, and I'm doubting whether this is the club for me, whether I need to get them fitted (my 762s were not fitted and I didn't do much research into getting fitted when I bought the JPXs because I figured I've always played "standard" irons and could hit them straight consistently), or whether I just don't hit the ball as consistently as I used to. 

 

I am hitting a lot of balls off center towards the toe (using tape to see what's going on). A lot of times the club stings my hands after the shot, so it's obvious I'm not hitting it near the sweet spot (it has also been pretty cool - 60s or 70s, so that may add to the sting). A lot of the shots have a fade to them that I'm not intentionally trying to hit, nor did I ever have a problem with the 762s doing this. Basically, I feel like if I went on a course, I'd have no confidence that I'd know where to line up or that I would be able to hit a straight shot with these clubs. Funny thing is that I took my 762 8-iron out of the bag after struggling with the JPX 8 iron and hit the first shot pretty much perfectly flush on the sweet spot.

 

So did I buy too much club and need something more forgiving? Should I go have someone look at my swing and see what can be adjusted/if they can do anything to fit the JPXs? Go back to the 762s (they are pretty worn out)? Keep trying to get used to hitting the JPXs? What's an equivalent new iron to the 762s that I should maybe try? Is there something else I should be considering that could cause me to hit the 762s more true? They seem to be the same length but maybe the lie is different standard to standard between the two...

 

Any suggestions would be much appreciated. I'd be very happy if I can get back to around a 15 handicap and hit shots consistently.

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The tow strikes are most likely a swing issue.  Lack of extension as the club head is striking the ball.

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I'd suggest a few lessons before you dump the irons, your misses are swing related not club related.  While JPX 900 Forged are not SGI irons, they are fairly forgiving.  

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, bzogster said:

They seem to be the same length but maybe the lie is different standard to standard between the two...

 

Any suggestions would be much appreciated. I'd be very happy if I can get back to around a 15 handicap and hit shots consistently.

Mizuno standard lies are 1.5° flatter than Titleist standard. The flatter the lie, the more the ball is gonna go right. 
Also, I’ve owned 762s and currently play 919 Forged. I wouldn’t classify 762s as much more forgiving than the 919 F, if at all. So I don’t feel forgiveness is your problem. Assuming the sets are the same length, I’d look at shaft type/flex and lie angles. 

Edited by TiScape
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It may be a mechanics issue and or as simple as needing a lie adjustment.  I wouldn't jump to any conclusions, just yet.  You need a lot more time on the range with them.  Good ball striking doesn't come quickly or easily.  There is NO club out there that you will pick up and magically be shooting in the 70s to 80s.  Patience and focus.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, foamhead said:

carpenter, not the tool

Is lie angles are off by close to 2° or if the shafts in the Mizunos are a horrible fit for him, the tool can definitely be contributing. If it were solely the “carpenter”, unlikely he would pull the 762 out at the same range session and be hitting them straight. 

Edited by TiScape
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Posted (edited)

I have the same issue as you OP and my mis hits in general are toe side.  I do have the occasional heel side/shank miss but that's pretty rare.  If you want a quick fix, then I would suggest setting up towards the heel.  This is what I did many years ago when my toe misses got really bad.  I know it's a bandage, but it's been working for me even till this day.  At first it's really uncomfortable setting up to the ball like that and you feel like your will shank it every single time but I assure you, you most likely won't.  I have seen Vijay and Luke Donald set up heel side for many years and they've had decent careers, LOL.  Take my advice about setting up heel side with a grain of salt.  I don't want you to PM later screaming at me saying that now you're shanking all your iron shots, lol. 

Edited by phizzy30

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1 hour ago, TiScape said:

Mizuno standard lies are 1.5° flatter than Titleist standard. The flatter the lie, the more the ball is gonna go right. 
Also, I’ve owned 762s and currently play 919 Forged. I wouldn’t classify 762s as much more forgiving than the 919 F, if at all. So I don’t feel forgiveness is your problem. Assuming the sets are the same length, I’d look at shaft type/flex and lie angles. 


This is good to know and maybe it’s my problem. I will look at having them fit and maybe adjusted. Thank you!

 

38 minutes ago, autronicdsm said:

Maybe you just got lucky? 😁 How many times did you hit old irons after that consistently? What shafts are in old clubs and what's in the new ones?

 

The Titleist 8 iron was pretty consistently close to the sweet spot after 5 swings. No hits too far off center whereas the Mizunos had ball marks pretty scattered around the tape. 

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2 hours ago, TiScape said:

Is lie angles are off by close to 2° or if the shafts in the Mizunos are a horrible fit for him, the tool can definitely be contributing. If it were solely the “carpenter”, unlikely he would pull the 762 out at the same range session and be hitting them straight. 

I dont disagree, but OP sounds like he hasn't golfed in a while so I would error on the side of probably needing a lesson tune-up 

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So from what i read on some reviews of this perticular iron set is that for a mizuno its more on the harsh side which is why you might be feeling stinging in your hands and also not as forgiving as some other irons that are this sized. 

I play mizuno mp5 blades and mizuno mp 20 mmc and i can tell you they are small and not at all harsh feeling except for extreme bottom hits and still then they dont sting just feel a touch harder all while being very forgiving for their size. Sounds like you just landed on a bad set mixed with the fact that your re entering the game. The best advice i can give you is to sell them and buy something you do some research and some testing on. To be honest getting fit is a bit of a waste of time... even if they fit you to a shaft... its not guarenteed to work out well or feel well... most fitters dont care and hitting off fake mats into screens is not real golf at all. I have also played off the rack clubs and have done just fine. I would say find a set you like and the feel you like... dont worry about shaft for now... most companys put a standard shaft in off the bat that mostly everyone can use. The size of the jpx 900 isnt the problem... its just the way that line turned out... plenty of irons from the last few years are amazing and forgiving at the same size or smaller... do not think or belive you need huge shovel irons to play well again. Pick a set that fits your eye and just get out there and play. Getting rounds in is whats going to lower your score the most.

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So I went to the range again today and my ball striking was better (much fewer at the toe.. I tried to make sure I wasn't picking the club up to vertically which I think I may have been struggling with last session... this also meant much less sting in the hands). I think I have been convinced I need to get the lies adjusted. I hit four balls per piece of marking tape and then switched clubs. Pics below.

 

First pic is the Mizuno pitching wedge. Hit the first shot off the toe (short) but the others were fairly close to center. Had some fade to them:

 

0?ui=2&ik=57efcebd72&attid=0.3&permmsgid=msg-a:r-4603115707197510487&th=1794e1530f4a6469&view=fimg&sz=s0-l75-ft&attbid=ANGjdJ9rbODD-6FQrVlu9ntGY11R1cU-lkVUAF3acBDkWvAlLKSee-xrAUmGcnADugL8l1L756nfE9aTA55-Na-nd_LCUc_3dD-PRZ-Nn6uTMyJfNjbHnm2P3mrhz4A&disp=emb&realattid=1794e1446efc7d8ff32

 

Next was the Titleist pitching wedge. Hit one thin, two were straight, pulled on a little left:

 

0?ui=2&ik=57efcebd72&attid=0.1&permmsgid=msg-a:r-4603115707197510487&th=1794e1530f4a6469&view=fimg&sz=s0-l75-ft&attbid=ANGjdJ__G1BwZbuz6s_QuZNQ-4EBSVyuRWWoCrMuZqUMmJRpnvmCibFqpirKaJemheA_so2PYqEjxuXKB54izk5z0r08oO0uwWECJlE6AHT9aw5gWWFN2H_c_sj8d00&disp=emb&realattid=1794e145f3c5727b4f43

 

Next was Mizuno 8 iron. Hit another one off the toe but the others were all fairly closer to center but had a bit of fade:

 

0?ui=2&ik=57efcebd72&attid=0.5&permmsgid=msg-a:r-4603115707197510487&th=1794e1530f4a6469&view=fimg&sz=s0-l75-ft&attbid=ANGjdJ8ulELoR3pvtfSNCZ6mcIWzx9uZhZRQpQ4bsfLQX4Z7mf2Byu2gwfsAJSKMjEGj1J3X1z_SFyFxuMGNvnHfYZQP08-TK87icDNgL7qW3VFZTVYWvFeQpmL2n4c&disp=emb&realattid=1794e146cd1a1d1d9f54

 

Next was the Titlelist 8 iron. Hit another one thin, two straight, and one had a slight draw:

 

0?ui=2&ik=57efcebd72&attid=0.7&permmsgid=msg-a:r-4603115707197510487&th=1794e1530f4a6469&view=fimg&sz=s0-l75-ft&attbid=ANGjdJ941moy_pETg0pNoNlMam1SjmLEfHmXLjG0xjpiMFimPolU4-2ntBYSjiCkqOwd52NORBOWWEhEPO_6cvDZrvKargo4qVsQQAgwPD0C1W1Gk_dFQMRz1kr8RZQ&disp=emb&realattid=1794e1477deec7bfef65


 

I then hit the Mizuno 6 iron. I hit two shots thin. All four shots had quite a bit of fade:

 

 

 

0?ui=2&ik=57efcebd72&attid=0.8&permmsgid=msg-a:r-4603115707197510487&th=1794e1530f4a6469&view=fimg&sz=s0-l75-ft&attbid=ANGjdJ9QoCsFD3ruXJSINZ7GxhkdC1O4O-mz9IKIpLKe8v5w9AW3hR0IZ_wWefELUAfxqUceuVODI8iGRMcd6nNmrCvoh5kixffrG57WtIK4m8Gl_Beqq4ZzQ7m7U-Y&disp=emb&realattid=1794e14b69b372623f76

 

Next went back to the MIzuno P. Hit on a bit thin, and three pretty well in the center but had slight fade:

 

0?ui=2&ik=57efcebd72&attid=0.9&permmsgid=msg-a:r-4603115707197510487&th=1794e1530f4a6469&view=fimg&sz=s0-l75-ft&attbid=ANGjdJ_Nkb0RSSBTAz1F8YIW0SoX9NbxMYRaZwq0Vli_UgnLoL1GtcNHEGsHWORvQA0WJfHQHr44OGhT0rsvoQvzmFQ6YMM6Gji5VVzz_FD46qRUIxzPZ9EhkYeLk5s&disp=emb&realattid=1794e14c11b81d048f87

 

Titleist P next. Was pretty inconsistent on these swings. Hit one fat, one straight, one had a slight draw and one had a slight fade:

 

0?ui=2&ik=57efcebd72&attid=0.2&permmsgid=msg-a:r-4603115707197510487&th=1794e1530f4a6469&view=fimg&sz=s0-l75-ft&attbid=ANGjdJ99y4OzkmTckYEKy2XwOZVlY7KAB01H5mm_MrlSTz9jiCBbZyRBPZixZm5CG0tXao6OCCko-sgZg1GwKVb1ylyL1-DbEzOCi80g72Lh2IBBJhjA0NK8UlJs16g&disp=emb&realattid=1794e14ca76a81cce78

 

Back to Mizuno 8. One was slightly thin and the other three were fairly good but had fade:

 

0?ui=2&ik=57efcebd72&attid=0.4&permmsgid=msg-a:r-4603115707197510487&th=1794e1530f4a6469&view=fimg&sz=s0-l75-ft&attbid=ANGjdJ9Ek2lZz2PN5eq2vVjX4JuNWAHLUO9qRDkw_Hcjg2G82cHLsLaIW9cNvNNo6qMePMSsIzVuUAB3Ar4i1KBC5DjIz3Hgi-SR_-W5tXqgJ8zQiKrtWQe9PoQlhH8&disp=emb&realattid=1794e14d571552bf1e89

 

Titleist 8 iron: one shot just didn't feel good and had a slight fade. The other three felt good and went straight:

 

0?ui=2&ik=57efcebd72&attid=0.6&permmsgid=msg-a:r-4603115707197510487&th=1794e1530f4a6469&view=fimg&sz=s0-l75-ft&attbid=ANGjdJ9pUj_ZU8gddFIbswnCEmhPysDcp_iwMNywAXujQkQekv36laXi2s7eYgwYR_kPGksb0XhzUwXLdJMy_KfG4LoYFtNP5Jew16tlmPwUF0CpTkWrf6jVEg--7SE&disp=emb&realattid=1794e14e11f9fd616e9a

 

Mizuno 6. First two I hit a bit thin and they had a strong fade. Then I moved the 6 iron forward in my stance to where I might normally try to hit something like a 3 or 4 iron, and hit them both straight. 

 

0?ui=2&ik=57efcebd72&attid=0.10&permmsgid=msg-a:r-4603115707197510487&th=1794e1530f4a6469&view=fimg&sz=s0-l75-ft&attbid=ANGjdJ8HdO9CYTCfjuxOmTdCwG_F7qe9MT9ChXQ4JMx1m7jJlagaHpeT1TeuKOsEVuWJZDJiBb-jkLZTRbXNu6-2ZI1Uw2GOQqttuSP75TQS4003k4gp7YEY48h0aQ8&disp=emb&realattid=1794e14ebadea803beab

 

After discovering this with the 6 iron, I tried the same with the 8 iron. Forward in the stance and I hit 3 shots dead straight with it. 

 

So, this seems to point towards having the lie adjusted to be a bit less flat I think, right? It seems like the contact I am making on the Titleist vs. Mizuno is not much different in terms of the area on the face but the results are that the Mizunos consistently fade and the Titleists do not, which seems to point to the lie being too flat on the Mizunos in comparison. I think the fact that if I play the Mizunos a bit forward and then hitting them straight would also point to the lie being too flat, correct?

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Bubb said:

My son plays JPX 900 forged. He’s a high school golfer and has a high swing speed. He does well with them but I couldn’t play them as a 7 handicap. I’ve tried.

Interesting. I’m a 10 and play 919 Forged with zero issues. Love em. Mizuno classifies them as for anyone 14 handi. and under. Just goes to show, ‘your mileage may vary.’

Edited by TiScape
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I'am going to reply based on my experience with the JPX 900 Forged.

Purchased a set a few years ago after coming from the MP-57's, then MP-53's. I like yourself found myself coming away rather disappointed with "thinned" shots. I was fitted for this set with a DG 300 stiff. Went back and the set was reconfigured with my 2nd recommendation of Project X 5.5. This was better but not nearly what I expected. I decided to stick with them and work on them. My subsequent research on them in this time indicated the ball came off with a lower trajectory. From my experience it seemed the case and with my shallow swing it lead to a terrible stinger feeling especially on cold days. If i came into the ball steeper seems the great Mizuno feel was there again but this was not for  me so I parted with them. 

I must admit i had limited experience with a playing Buddies JPX 919 Forged and these seemed much better.

 

Hope this helps and good luck.

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1 hour ago, Bunker Boy said:

I'am going to reply based on my experience with the JPX 900 Forged.

Purchased a set a few years ago after coming from the MP-57's, then MP-53's. I like yourself found myself coming away rather disappointed with "thinned" shots. I was fitted for this set with a DG 300 stiff. Went back and the set was reconfigured with my 2nd recommendation of Project X 5.5. This was better but not nearly what I expected. I decided to stick with them and work on them. My subsequent research on them in this time indicated the ball came off with a lower trajectory. From my experience it seemed the case and with my shallow swing it lead to a terrible stinger feeling especially on cold days. If i came into the ball steeper seems the great Mizuno feel was there again but this was not for  me so I parted with them. 

I must admit i had limited experience with a playing Buddies JPX 919 Forged and these seemed much better.

 

Hope this helps and good luck.

 

Thanks, I agree with what you are saying when hitting a thinned shot, I think that the sting is a lot more apparent when hitting thin or on the toe vs. my old Titleists. Hoping if I can get these fit I won't have to go a different route but I think that's the next step in my process. I am able to hit them high like my 762's when I adjust them to be farther up in my stance.

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On 5/8/2021 at 4:15 PM, bzogster said:

this seems to point towards having the lie adjusted to be a bit less flat I think, right?

Typically, toe strikes are due to the club lie angle is too flat and needs an upright adjustment.  A toe strike is because the club is lifted, or the person stands up right out of proper golf posture, lifting the heel of club into impact.  How much of an adjustment depends on what the "stock" lie angle is the given club.  There's a difference between OEM's.  Example; one-half to a full degree difference between my Titleist blades and Callaway original X-forged.

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On 5/10/2021 at 10:29 AM, autronicdsm said:

Upright clubs would solve ball flight, but do nothing for how you swing (i.e. toe shots). What shafts do you have in both sets?


Dynamic Gold S300 in both. 
 

I think based on my latest range trip last weekend I fixed the issue with hitting off the toe for the most part (see the impact tape pictures). The week before I was hitting most shots at the toe vs having a good percentage of them near the center. I think I was taking the club up vertically too quickly the week before and mostly fixed that issue in the last session. 

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JPX 900 F were the first set of irons I was fitted for and bought brand new. 

 

I struggled with them for 18 months as I didn't want to dump them since I has invested so much time and money. I even took them to a Mizuno demo day and was "refitted" for a different shaft. Better, but just never got along w them. 

 

I actually had my clubs stolen so I was forced to rebuild my bag. 

 

Started with my old MP30s and my ball striking immediately improved.

 

Fast forward to today and I'm playing a set of MP20 MMCs I bought off Ebay and couldn't be happier. 

 

I'm down to a 2 handicap.

 

I wouldn't listen to too many people on the internet that tell you things like "Indian, not the arrow", "those are some of the best irons ever", etc. 

 

We are all different, and I can tell you as a good ball striker, I just never got along w the JPX 900F. Doesn't mean they irons aren't great for others, but not for me and maybe nit for you. 

 

I'd go back to what you're comfortable with, work on your swing and enjoy the game. 

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Posted (edited)

Alright folks, want to get some more opinions... I went to see the PGA Pro my BIL recommend last Sunday (9 days ago). I explained to him that I could hit my old irons straight but not my new irons, and that there was differences in lie. Anyways, he basically said it's my swing and not the clubs, and that I need to flatten my swing out. He said my swing is too much "over the top" and gave me some drills to work on. I've been working on those drills and some other to try to get my swing to be "under the top" and while I can do so when I'm swinging very slowly, every time I try to go with more of a normal speed swing, I revert back to the same downswing I had before.  I guess it is going to be a long road to change the swing... meanwhile, I still hit a pretty strong fade with the Mizunos, and still hit the Titleist's straight. I'm pretty close to just saying screw it and getting the Mizuno's adjusted to the same lie as the Titleist and seeing what happens. 

 

While my swing is certainly not flat as I've seen in some videos, and I understand the concept and again can do so when I'm swinging very lightly, I'm not so sure my swing is so over the top that it is really causing the issue with one set of irons but not the other. I'd like to get some opinions and thoughts on if I should continue working on what the Pro wants my swing to look like, or just go get the clubs adjusted. Ultimately, I have to decide if I want to put in the time to change my swing as well. Video below of the swing that is producing straight shots with TItleist 762's and fades with JPX900's... 

 

 

Edited by bzogster
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I'd go get the Mizuno's adjusted if I were you.  It may or may not solve your issue. 

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      2021 Sanderson Farms Championship - Tuesday #3
       
      2021 Sanderson Farms Championship - Tuesday #4
       
      WITBs
      Aaron Rai - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship
      Brian Stuard - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship
      Eugenio Chacarra - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship
      Davis Riley - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship
      Brice Garnett - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship
      Curtis Thompson - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship
      Richy Werenski - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship
      Andy Ogletree - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship
      Sahith Theegala - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship Will Zalatoris - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship Stephan Jaeger - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship Kevin Chappell - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship Jonas Blixt - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship Kevin Streelman - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship Sam Burns - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship Matthew Wolff - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship Jimmy Walker - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship Gary Woodland - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship Davis Thompson - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship Sam Saunders - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship  
      Special Galleries
       
      Odyssey putters - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship  
      Cameron putters - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship  
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      • 5 replies
    • 2021 Fortinet Championship - Discussion and Links
      Please put and questions or comments here
       
       
      2021 Fortinet Championship - Tuesday #1
      2021 Fortinet Championship - Tuesday #2
      2021 Fortinet Championship - Tuesday #3
      2021 Fortinet Championship - Tuesday #4
      2021 Fortinet Championship - Tuesday #5
      2021 Fortinet Championship - Tuesday #6
      2021 Fortinet Championship - Tuesday #7
      2021 Fortinet Championship - Tuesday #8
       
       
      New Ping putter - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      New Bettinardi putters & Cover - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      Ping Putters - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      Odyssey putters - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      Cameron putter and new ball marker - 2021 Fortinet Championship
       
       
      Sneds - WITB - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      Peter Uihlein - WITB - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      Charles Howell, III - WITB - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      Scott Piercy - WITB - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      Brandan Steele - WITB - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      Mito Pereira - WITB - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      Kevin Tway - WITB -2021 Fortinet Championship
      Joseph Bramlett - WITB - 2021 Fortinet Championship
       
       
       
      • 19 replies
    • 2021 Tour Championship - Discussion and Comments
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      Odyssey putters - 2021 Tour Championship
      LA Golf putter shafts - 2021 Tour Championship
       
       
       
      • 25 replies

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