Help me find freedom in my swing and release.... What is the cause of this?

[midweston]

Thought I'd throw this out to the peanut gallery. 

 

Footage from last fall's sibling rivalry match at LaCrosse Country Club in Wisconsin... really nice track, btw. stick around for the slow motion swing after the initial one. 

 

 

 

I hate this flip/stuck/hook miss I have. The follow through you will see my left elbow flying at a 90 degree angle too....  What causes this primary miss?

 

Is it...my backswing is too long and I can't stay synched up, or my inside and flat takeaway? 

 

Or is it something else? Ideas of things to try? It's like my mind knows that the face won't get closed, so I need to save it at the very last second? I don't know.

 

I HATE the feeling of manipulation of the hands at impact. There is no freedom through the ball to swing away, resulting in this miss as well as all kinds of other fun stuff. Help me find "freedom"

[Valtiel]

I think you have identified a good part of it there. You're very inside and shut on the way back, and you pretty much hold that throughout. Your backswing is definitely on the long side and it might not hurt to get that under control a bit, unless it really just feels right to you. 

The main thing that you are feeling that is driving you nuts is related to club path and face angle I think. Most people that take the club back inside and shut like you're doing tend to then come over the top in transition, but you actually stay in the pocket and on plane quite well which is good. The problem is that going back inside and shut and maintaining that throughout your swing means you come into the ball inside and shut as well, and this is where your hand manipulation feeling is coming from. This is the kind of path you would use to hit a big hook, and that is great for when you want that, but having it as your default path means you're relying on timing a shut face with an inside path, and this can and will go quick left when you don't time it up.

Freedom tends to come from either deeply practiced and ingrained patterns that work with how you think and feel (see any pro with an unorthodox swing), or from neutralizing the things that are causing consistency issues. In this case, a shut face and an inside path is clearly not working for you, so that should be your focus. If you want to keep the slightly stronger grip and shut clubface, then many better players find freedom in favoring a fade, which will require you to neutralize your path. Taking the club straight back and staying much steeper in the backswing would be the place to start which will allow you to shallow in transition without getting too inside. If the inside club path is what feels right to you then you'll need to get better control over the clubface. Right now you have a bit of a chicken/egg problem that you'll need to figure out. The shut clubface and inside path are often partners and usually one comes first and other shows up as a compensation. Neutralizing one and getting comfortable working with the other is a good strategy. 

As for the how, personally I would work on the inside club path first and shortening the backswing. Practice taking the club straight back and take what feel like 3/4 backswings while forcing yourself to hit a fade with the ball starting left. This can help give you the feeling of a more neutral path that you can slowly start applying more power to. Definitely video yourself and take note of the good and bad results and what the swings look like that produced them. Feel free to post more videos if you decide to try that and ask any questions here. 👍

[midweston]

Thanks for the feedback. I'll take some more updated swing vids... and try to get a little more vertical on takeaway and not inside. 

 

I have been lately feeling an early wrist set which has freed me up some too as far as getting through the ball

[tthomasgolfer605]

You have to flip/hook or you'd hit it straight into the tree. No swing advice will work unless you set the clubface first at your target then align the feet. You're placing your feet first which will cause you to aim right. That'll be $17,500. 😁

 

Edited May 10, 2021 by tthomasgolfer605
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[tthomasgolfer605]

On 5/8/2021 at 10:39 PM, Valtiel said:

I think you have identified a good part of it there. You're very inside and shut on the way back, and you pretty much hold that throughout. Your backswing is definitely on the long side and it might not hurt to get that under control a bit, unless it really just feels right to you. 

The main thing that you are feeling that is driving you nuts is related to club path and face angle I think. Most people that take the club back inside and shut like you're doing tend to then come over the top in transition, but you actually stay in the pocket and on plane quite well which is good. The problem is that going back inside and shut and maintaining that throughout your swing means you come into the ball inside and shut as well, and this is where your hand manipulation feeling is coming from. This is the kind of path you would use to hit a big hook, and that is great for when you want that, but having it as your default path means you're relying on timing a shut face with an inside path, and this can and will go quick left when you don't time it up.

Freedom tends to come from either deeply practiced and ingrained patterns that work with how you think and feel (see any pro with an unorthodox swing), or from neutralizing the things that are causing consistency issues. In this case, a shut face and an inside path is clearly not working for you, so that should be your focus. If you want to keep the slightly stronger grip and shut clubface, then many better players find freedom in favoring a fade, which will require you to neutralize your path. Taking the club straight back and staying much steeper in the backswing would be the place to start which will allow you to shallow in transition without getting too inside. If the inside club path is what feels right to you then you'll need to get better control over the clubface. Right now you have a bit of a chicken/egg problem that you'll need to figure out. The shut clubface and inside path are often partners and usually one comes first and other shows up as a compensation. Neutralizing one and getting comfortable working with the other is a good strategy. 

As for the how, personally I would work on the inside club path first and shortening the backswing. Practice taking the club straight back and take what feel like 3/4 backswings while forcing yourself to hit a fade with the ball starting left. This can help give you the feeling of a more neutral path that you can slowly start applying more power to. Definitely video yourself and take note of the good and bad results and what the swings look like that produced them. Feel free to post more videos if you decide to try that and ask any questions here. 👍

You never seem to point out golfer's pre shot routines that causes pretty much every flaw you mentioned. He's aimed like 30 yards right. 

[Valtiel]

1 hour ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

You never seem to point out golfer's pre shot routines that causes pretty much every flaw you mentioned. He's aimed like 30 yards right. 

The OP will have to clarify, but my assumption was....



...that the target was somewhere over his shoulder there. That would mean his feet are lined up at the right edge of the green/target area which didn't seem like anything unusual given that it looks like the ball is above his feet a bit. 

If that is not where the target is and he is lined up much further right then yes, alignment would be an issue.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Valtiel

[tthomasgolfer605]

2 hours ago, Valtiel said:

The OP will have to clarify, but my assumption was....



...that the target was somewhere over his shoulder there. That would mean his feet are lined up at the right edge of the green/target area which didn't seem like anything unusual given that it looks like the ball is above his feet a bit. 

If that is not where the target is and he is lined up much further right then yes, alignment would be an issue.

 

2 hours ago, Valtiel said:

The OP will have to clarify, but my assumption was....



...that the target was somewhere over his shoulder there. That would mean his feet are lined up at the right edge of the green/target area which didn't seem like anything unusual given that it looks like the ball is above his feet a bit. 

If that is not where the target is and he is lined up much further right then yes, alignment would be an issue.

I see it all the time. Ball hooks left, golfer aims right. Grip/ball position change without them knowing it until someone points it out. I have yet to see an excellent golfer who has converging feet/shoulder lines with an iron. A driver you can get away with it. It wouldn't surprise me if his grip got weak causing open shoulders to feet line.

[midweston]

hmm, all interesting stuff to look at! I don't have a perfect DTL angle obviously either, but does look like my feet are aimed different than my shoulders for sure....which would help cause a hook. 

 

I played today, and didn't lose too many left with long irons or driver, but short irons and wedges are still flippy and can be tugged pretty easy. They also go really short, guessing because of flipping. 

[hwwong]

On 5/9/2021 at 2:21 PM, midweston said:

Thanks for the feedback. I'll take some more updated swing vids... and try to get a little more vertical on takeaway and not inside. 

 

I have been lately feeling an early wrist set which has freed me up some too as far as getting through the ball

 

I do the same thing in the waggle pre-shot.  the clubhead gets inside the hands.  

 

Agreed with the other alignment posts.  But try the drill where you swing with a ball between your elbows - I would say your hands/wrists are too active. 

[midweston]

Thank you for writing!! 

 

My playing partner noticed I am playing my ball too far forward likely, and so I wonder if that's why my shoulders are tilted left compared to my feet? 

[tthomasgolfer605]

11 hours ago, midweston said:

Thank you for writing!! 

 

My playing partner noticed I am playing my ball too far forward likely, and so I wonder if that's why my shoulders are tilted left compared to my feet? 

Jim Flick points out the correct procedure for aiming early in this video. It's going to feel strange at first, probably feel like you're aimed too far left,  but you'll reap the rewards later.  You nailed it that a forward ball position will open the shoulders a bit. You have to change the procedure though. Clubface first, THEN the feet either slightly open or parallel to target line. 

 

[midweston]

Hadn't done a face on video in quite some time... was disappointed...hands dragging behind my body... lateral sliding... hit a lot of shanks today. Was working on my takeaway being more vertical and feeling it taken outside, but alas, I'm still where I was. I believe this was with a 4 iron.

 

Edit: I sound super quiet/deep because it's night and kids and wife are asleep. 🙂

 

Short irons and wedges have been horrendous lately..so much flipping going on. Need to be able to rotate through the shot. My DTL you can really tell I was pulling on the handle from the top too. Ugh. 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by midweston

[tthomasgolfer605]

I think your long backswing sets you up for sequencing issues. There's only one way to shorten it. Feel like your transition starts as very early in the backswing. Speed those arms up as well.