RE: Tiger and the boulder

[smashdn]

23 minutes ago, Dpavs said:

 

That's not what is going on here... what he is saying... is.. "A little help finding my ball here please... every time I look down, I am blinded by my shoes."

 

Are those soccer boots?

[the bishop]

13 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Fine, it’s a ton. But it was moved enough for Tiger to play it and it was not embedded.

I think the way I would interpret that - and the actual weight wouldn't matter - is that as long as the object doesn't require more force to move it than it ordinarily would sitting on the ground then it falls under the rule not embedded.  Say you have a 50lb boulder/rock.  It's weight has cause a slight depression in the ground but nothing is sticking to it so to pick it up requires no more force than would normally be needed.  But if it were in the depression and rain and water had caused mud to form around base of the rock and breaking it loose from that bond would require the force normally needed for say a 75lb rock then to me that is embedded.

[Shilgy]

3 minutes ago, the bishop said:

I think the way I would interpret that - and the actual weight wouldn't matter - is that as long as the object doesn't require more force to move it than it ordinarily would sitting on the ground then it falls under the rule not embedded.  Say you have a 50lb boulder/rock.  It's weight has cause a slight depression in the ground but nothing is sticking to it so to pick it up requires no more force than would normally be needed.  But if it were in the depression and rain and water had caused mud to form around base of the rock and breaking it loose from that bond would require the force normally needed for say a 75lb rock then to me that is embedded.

That would be correct.

[Tatertuck]

Why not just deem it an immovable obstruction. I mean IT WAS MOVED, but not without some work. Everything is technically moveable... Regardless, it was put there for aesthetics and on purpose. Should have been a local rule in the first place if the club knew those rocks were there. 

[bscinstnct]

9 hours ago, dalehead said:

And the purpose of revisiting this very old topic is what?

 

Instead of wasting our time on this we should be discussing whether Arnold Palmer should have been given relief for an embedded ball in the 1960 Masters.

 

People still hoping for a special counsel investigation into TWs am relationship with Nike that will DQ him from golf and nullify all his Majors ; )

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

 

People still hoping for a special counsel investigation into TWs am relationship with Nike that will DQ him from golf and nullify all his Majors ; )

Oh for sure.  The hate is real.  And sad.  

[TiScape]

11 hours ago, dalehead said:

And the purpose of revisiting this very old topic is what?

 

Instead of wasting our time on this we should be discussing whether Arnold Palmer should have been given relief for an embedded ball in the 1960 Masters.

Good question. When I saw the OP I was like, oh wow, that’s a blast from the past. But I honestly think it’s was just another slow Monday on a golf forum and anything Tiger gets a reaction period. So people respond. It beats discussing some guy on the Euro tour that nobody has heard of! 😂 

[golfandfishing]

1 hour ago, Tatertuck said:

Why not just deem it an immovable obstruction. I mean IT WAS MOVED, but not without some work. Everything is technically moveable... Regardless, it was put there for aesthetics and on purpose. Should have been a local rule in the first place if the club knew those rocks were there. 

Almost everything on a golf course is out there for aesthetics and on purpose. Railroad tie walls, ob stakes and even seemingly natural things like mounds, hills, trees, etc are very rarely  where the great flood left them and instead are where earth movers shaped and placed them. Relief from a severe downhill lie then?

[TiScape]

3 minutes ago, golfandfishing said:

Relief from a severe downhill lie then?

Yes please!!! 😊

[Obee]

3 hours ago, golfortennis said:

 

I would limit it to the player and their caddie.  The posts about "is it fair to a 90lb woman" have some validity, but I view it the same way some guys hit it longer.  Some people are just blessed.

 

But when you can have a gallery move something that they wouldn't move for another player, I think the fairness question brought up before goes out the window.

 

 

How about looking for one's ball? Galleries find one's ball is as old as golf. Seems at least somewhat analogous, does it not?

[golfortennis]

16 minutes ago, Obee said:

 

How about looking for one's ball? Galleries find one's ball is as old as golf. Seems at least somewhat analogous, does it not?

 

I don't consider that the same.  A)Other than walking around a bit, it requires very little effort on the part of anyone.  I have a hard time believing no one would look for a particular player's ball, unless you're Patrick Reed.  🤪 Plus, helping find a player's ball doesn't mean you've made his next shot easier than it would have been.  This does.  B)In a tournament, there are marshals for whom part of the job description is to locate errant shots.  I don't believe they have added "move boulders when a player misses the fairway."

 

 

 

[SirFuego]

16 hours ago, TiScape said:

Great effort. So close! Hilarious 

 

Even with a lot of people around on a manicured golf course, is it really a good idea to blindly put your fingers underneath a large rock in the desert?

[Loki]

12 hours ago, grm24 said:

There is no purpose except for a few here to continue to rag on Tiger for something that took place 22 years ago that didn't violate the ROG. Those people need to let this go and get over themselves.

 

As for Palmer and the Masters I'd imagine most people at WRX have no idea of that situation.

Correct, that it doesn't violate the rules of golf but it DOES violate the spirit.

[Shilgy]

46 minutes ago, Loki said:

Correct, that it doesn't violate the rules of golf but it DOES violate the spirit.

How so when it distinctly says you can have assistance?  Or based on your previous post is it just Tiger’s spirit you dislike?

 

edited to add….there is no such thing asspirit of the rules. Either you follow them correctly or you don’t.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Shilgy

[bscinstnct]

1 hour ago, Loki said:

Correct, that it doesn't violate the rules of golf but it DOES violate the spirit.

 

🤣

 

Spirit of the game of golf be like drunks hitting rocks with sticks and draft dodging ; )

 

 

[johnseg]

One thing I have learned by watching pro golf is that the rules can be of great benefit to you if you are willing to push the limits. I won't even get started on where balls cross the hazard line from the tee.

[smashdn]

2 hours ago, johnseg said:

One thing I have learned by watching pro golf is that the rules can be of great benefit to you if you are willing to push the limits. I won't even get started on where balls cross the hazard line from the tee.

 

They have rules officials there to bounce things off of too.  You and I don't (typically).

 

Sort of like haggling over price.  The worst thing that can happen is they say no and your pride is hurt.

 

- "Can I get relief from these ants?  There is an animal hole." 

- "No, hit your ball as it lies and go find some proper shoes."

[me05501]

I mean it’s not like he didn’t request a ruling, as shown in the video. It almost sounds like it was the official’s idea for him to request the gallery’s help.

[tw_focus]

TW played that one by the book. To his gallery that's a loose impediment, to almost any other golfer, it's an immovable object. That's called the GOAT advantage.

[ALIF]

11 hours ago, johnseg said:

One thing I have learned by watching pro golf is that the rules can be of great benefit to you if you are willing to push the limits. I won't even get started on where balls cross the hazard line from the tee.

Just ask Sung Kang where his ball crossed. LOL.

[the bishop]

3 hours ago, ALIF said:

Just ask Sung Kang where his ball crossed. LOL.

Or Tiger at The Players for that matter.

[Dpavs]

Yeah I agree this is totally a history lesson at this point but... I never understand why Tiger takes any heat for this one. This was entirely on the official who was there and suggested that the boulder was a loose impediment. The problem I have always had with that decision is in regards to such a large heavy object being able to be moved with "reasonable" effort. I think if you have to have so many fans assist to move it and with difficulty it presented to be moved... the effort is no longer reasonable. Again though, this was on the official not El Tigre'.

[Ferguson]

In 1999 male golf fans didn't wear capri pants and had no problem moving rocks. 

Things were different. 

 

That event was golf history. 

 

 

[Shilgy]

On 5/11/2021 at 6:50 AM, Tatertuck said:

Why not just deem it an immovable obstruction. I mean IT WAS MOVED, but not without some work. Everything is technically moveable... Regardless, it was put there for aesthetics and on purpose. Should have been a local rule in the first place if the club knew those rocks were there. 

Then he would have received free relief because it interfered with his stance/swing.

[naylor]

36 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Then he would have received free relief because it interfered with his stance/swing.

I wouldn't consider a one ton rock an immovable obstruction. It's a natural object. A local rule would be the only way to force golfers to play the ball as it lies and make no attempt to move said one ton rock. Obviously, the official let Tiger off the hook in this situation, however, my question is this: What if the boulder was imbedded and moving it created a crater in the earth? Who takes the penalty for disturbing an imbedded object?

[Dpavs]

39 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Then he would have received free relief because it interfered with his stance/swing.

 

Which would have made more sense to me then deeming it a loose impediment and it probably would have saved a few strained backs in the process..lol!

[Ferguson]

In 1999 people loved helping other people through tough times and had no problem removing hurdles that stood in the way. 

Things were different. 

 

That event was golf history. 

[naylor]

12 minutes ago, Ferguson said:

In 1999 people loved helping other people through tough times and had no problem removing hurdles that stood in the way. 

Things were different. 

 

That event was golf history. 

I don't get the correlation of the rules of golf and helping others through tough times?? The rules of golf aren't meant to help you through tough times, they are based around accountability and owning ones mistakes/missteps and taking the PROPER course of action to rectify and stay within the rules. Rules meant to protect and punish every player equally in an effort to level the playing field.

 

Don't get me wrong, I have a very strong appreciation for what Tiger brought to the world of golf. This is not one of those instances. 

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, naylor said:

I wouldn't consider a one ton rock an immovable obstruction. It's a natural object. A local rule would be the only way to force golfers to play the ball as it lies and make no attempt to move said one ton rock. Obviously, the official let Tiger off the hook in this situation, however, my question is this: What if the boulder was imbedded and moving it created a crater in the earth? Who takes the penalty for disturbing an imbedded object?

What if …..really doesn’t matter because it was clearly laying on top of the surface…..not embedded.   If it had been embedded he would have chipped out onto the fairway and played on.

 

PS I only said it could be called an immovable obstruction because a post claimed it should have been called such because it was supposed to aesthetically be in that position.

 

PSS the official did not let Tiger “off the hook” he played by the rules. 
  This whole conversation should have been locked up with the last thread. 
 Know the rules and play by them….end of story.

[tsecor]

Tiger cheats  ball wasnt even close to it

 

tiger could have hit the ball over the rock but 15 morons who only wanted to be a part of the hype to say "I moved Tigers rock" to impress others.....what a joke.....