Jump to content

RE: Tiger and the boulder


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, naylor said:

I don't get the correlation of the rules of golf and helping others through tough times?? The rules of golf aren't meant to help you through tough times, they are based around accountability and owning ones mistakes/missteps and taking the PROPER course of action to rectify and stay within the rules. Rules meant to protect and punish every player equally in an effort to level the playing field.

 

Don't get me wrong, I have a very strong appreciation for what Tiger brought to the world of golf. This is not one of those instances. 


The rules official is the one who told Tiger it was movable and told him that fans could move it.

 

So, maybe you have an issue with the official. But why do you have and issue with Tiger here?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 120
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Patrick Reed moved sand, roughly comparable in total volume to that giant boulder, and he was penalized for it.

Well, Bryson could move the boulder himself 

Ah, this is, again, just another example of Tiger's cavalier attitude with the rules and ethics of the game.  That rock ain't getting moved for anyone BUT Tiger, so while the USGA ruled AFTER the tour

Posted Images

30 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

What if …..really doesn’t matter because it was clearly laying on top of the surface…..not embedded.   If it had been embedded he would have chipped out onto the fairway and played on.

 

PS I only said it could be called an immovable obstruction because a post claimed it should have been called such because it was supposed to aesthetically be in that position.

 

PSS the official did not let Tiger “off the hook” he played by the rules. 
  This whole conversation should have been locked up with the last thread. 
 Know the rules and play by them….end of story.

1. There was no absolute way to know whether or not the rock was imbedded without attempting to move it.  I'm sure many pros have taken drops under the imbedded ball rule with as little as 1/4-1/2" below the surface. My point is this: If the official told Tiger it was ok to have the gallery move the rock and the rock turned out to be imbedded, who incurs the penalty? The gallery? The player no longer has to take a penalty because of the ruling by the official. Tiger was left with a no-lose situation where he hit it up against a giant rock, asked the official what could be done and the official gave him a way out. Not necessarily what I would consider a fair ruling.

 

2. Having the gallery move a one ton rock is also not in the spirit of the game-that rock was put there to alter a shot a player might play if his ball comes to rest near said rock affecting swing, stance or ballflight. You know this.

 

3. An immovable obstruction is a manmade object.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:


The rules official is the one who told Tiger it was movable and told him that fans could move it.

 

So, maybe you have an issue with the official. But why do you have and issue with Tiger here?

I do take issue with the ruling. Not necessarily with Tiger in this case. He wanted to win, the official gave him a way out of trouble and he took advantage of it. I get that but if you think this is in the spirit of the game, I can't help you.

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, naylor said:

I do take issue with the ruling. Not necessarily with Tiger in this case. He wanted to win, the official gave him a way out of trouble and he took advantage of it. I get that but if you think this is in the spirit of the game, I can't help you.


 

Tiger Woods has played in many hundreds of events.

 

He has won 80 of them. 
 

He has massive crowds watching his every move and probably 90% of his shots throughout his career have been televised. 
 

If you think TW has not played the game by the rules and to the very letter of the spirit of the game

 

I can’t help you ; )

  • Like 1
  • Sad 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:


 

Tiger Woods has played in many hundreds of events.

 

He has won 80 of them. 
 

He has massive crowds watching his every move and probably 90% of his shots throughout his career have been televised. 
 

If you think TW has not played the game by the rules and to the very letter of the spirit of the game

 

I can’t help you ; )

So you're good with 20 people helping move a rock out of someone's way so they can hit a golf shot? That's laughable to take that stance but in line with the views of today's society. I don't care if it was the worst player on the planet, the ruling was wrong and out-of-line with the spirit of the game.

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, naylor said:

So you're good with 20 people helping move a rock out of someone's way so they can hit a golf shot? That's laughable to take that stance but in line with the views of today's society. I don't care if it was the worst player on the planet, the ruling was wrong and out-of-line with the spirit of the game.


 

This falls in line with the views of,

 

 

DE8411F2-E15F-4014-BA32-879B91933ADE.jpeg
 

 

naylor! I just said TW has had like all his rounds and millions of shots under a microscope. In that context, what’s the issue here? The rules official made the call and now, what? You have some issue with TW following the rules of golf?

Edited by bscinstnct
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, naylor said:

So you're good with 20 people helping move a rock out of someone's way so they can hit a golf shot? That's laughable to take that stance but in line with the views of today's society. I don't care if it was the worst player on the planet, the ruling was wrong and out-of-line with the spirit of the game.

That is laughable…no other way to put it.

 

Expressly allowed by rule but “against the spirit of the game”?
 

Bull….

 

15.1a/1 – Removing a Loose Impediment, Including Assistance from Others
Loose impediments come in many shapes and sizes (such as acorns and large rocks), and the means and methods by which they may be removed are not limited, except that removal must not unreasonably delay play (see Rule 5.6a).
For example, a player may use a towel, hand or hat, or may lift or push a loose impediment for removal. A player is also allowed to seek help in removing loose impediments, such as by asking spectators for assistance in removing a large tree branch.

  • Like 2

WITB
Titleist TSi3 9* PX Riptide CB 60s

Titleist TS3 strong 3 wood 13.5* PX Hzrdus. Smoke 75s

Titleist 818H2 19* hybrid Tensei Blue

Srixon ZX7 5-pw Nippon Pro Modus 125s

Taylormade MG2 50* 54* 58* DG S300

Scotty Cameron Newport Special Select 34” with flow neck by LaMont

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

That is laughable…no other way to put it.

 

Expressly allowed by rule but “against the spirit of the game”?
 

Bull….

 

15.1a/1 – Removing a Loose Impediment, Including Assistance from Others
Loose impediments come in many shapes and sizes (such as acorns and large rocks), and the means and methods by which they may be removed are not limited, except that removal must not unreasonably delay play (see Rule 5.6a).
For example, a player may use a towel, hand or hat, or may lift or push a loose impediment for removal. A player is also allowed to seek help in removing loose impediments, such as by asking spectators for assistance in removing a large tree branch.


 

Well, there you see...

 

I could see moving large tree branch being in the spirit of the game. I mean, trees are so...spiritual 🧘‍♀️ 

 

But a rock? That’s totally unspiritual and an outrage!

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
Spoiler

 

There is a VERY easy way to fix this which it seems most of you have missed (though I have not read every single post). Just write the rule and state that no spectator can be permitted to assist with the movement of said object. That’s the part that was laughable to me, whether technically within the rules or not. 
 

I would also gladly see this stipulation applied to lost balls as well, but with fans lining every fairway, that’s not realistic. 

Edited by Need4spd

TaylorMade SIM 10.5° | Graphite Design Tour AD IZ 60-S
TaylorMade M2 15° | Project X Evenflow Blue Handcrafted 75 6.0
TaylorMade SIM2 Rescue 19.5° | Mitsubishi Tensei AV Raw Blue 80S
Mizuno JPX 921 Forged 4-5, Tour 6-PW | KBS Tour $-Taper 120 

Titleist Vokey SM7 50°, 54°, SM8 58° | Nippon N.S. PRO Modus³ 115

Odyssey 2-Ball Ten S
Titleist ProV1X 

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Need4spd said:
  Reveal hidden contents

 

There is a VERY easy way to fix this which it seems most of you have missed (though I have not read every single post). Just write the rule and state that no spectator can be permitted to assist with the movement of said object. That’s the part that was laughable to me, whether technically within the rules or not. 
 

I would also gladly see this stipulation applied to lost balls as well, but with fans lining every fairway, that’s not realistic. 

My opinion is they did think of that….and expressly wrote the rule as it is so that all players can move a similarly sized loose impediment.  Under your proposal some can move a 200 pound impediment and others limited to 20.  Does not seem fairer to me.

  • Like 1

WITB
Titleist TSi3 9* PX Riptide CB 60s

Titleist TS3 strong 3 wood 13.5* PX Hzrdus. Smoke 75s

Titleist 818H2 19* hybrid Tensei Blue

Srixon ZX7 5-pw Nippon Pro Modus 125s

Taylormade MG2 50* 54* 58* DG S300

Scotty Cameron Newport Special Select 34” with flow neck by LaMont

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:


 

Well, there you see...

 

I could see moving large tree branch being in the spirit of the game. I mean, trees are so...spiritual 🧘‍♀️ 

 

But a rock? That’s totally unspiritual and an outrage!

A broken tree branch is not part of the design of a golf course. A large boulder is part of the design of the golf course.

  • Confused 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, naylor said:

A broken tree branch is not part of the design of a golf course. A large boulder is part of the design of the golf course.

Here in Arizona sometimes the boulders are for looks/design and sometimes they are just loose rocks. Do you know how to tell the difference?

  • Like 1

WITB
Titleist TSi3 9* PX Riptide CB 60s

Titleist TS3 strong 3 wood 13.5* PX Hzrdus. Smoke 75s

Titleist 818H2 19* hybrid Tensei Blue

Srixon ZX7 5-pw Nippon Pro Modus 125s

Taylormade MG2 50* 54* 58* DG S300

Scotty Cameron Newport Special Select 34” with flow neck by LaMont

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, naylor said:

A broken tree branch is not part of the design of a golf course. A large boulder is part of the design of the golf course.


Yes, and this boulder was also a movable obstruction that the rules official advised could be moved by the fans. 
 

There’s no question about this.

 

The rule is the same today....

 

Here is BK doing the same thing

 


 

 

666E6CF4-3F7B-4758-B419-FFED3B6109F6.jpeg

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, naylor said:

So you're good with 20 people helping move a rock out of someone's way so they can hit a golf shot? That's laughable to take that stance but in line with the views of today's society. I don't care if it was the worst player on the planet, the ruling was wrong and out-of-line with the spirit of the game.

 

There are a lot instances where the pro game and more specifically the pro game paraphernalia has resulted in rulings not in line with the "spirit of the game." 

 

I like this "spirit" concept but I think you will find it difficult to define and even more difficult to agree upon what exactly it is/means.  I don't think yardage markers let alone range finders are part of the spirit of the game.  Most don't agree with that. 

 

Your spirit and my spirit may differ.  Perhaps you may find a kindred spirit.

Edited by smashdn
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:


Yes, and this boulder was also a movable obstruction that the rules official advised could be moved by the fans. 
 

There’s no question about this.

 

The rule is the same today....

 

Here is BK doing the same thing

 


 

 

666E6CF4-3F7B-4758-B419-FFED3B6109F6.jpeg

It makes no difference who the player is???? and that rock looks partially imbedded in the sand. Not a good rule.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

There are a lot instances where the pro game and more specifically the pro game paraphernalia has resulted in rulings not in line with the "spirit of the game." 

 

I like this "spirit" concept but I think you will find it difficult to define and even more difficult to agree upon what exactly it is/means.  I don't think yardage markers let alone range finders are part of the spirit of the game.  Most don't agree with that. 

 

Your spirit and my spirit may differ.  Perhaps you may find a kindred spirit.

The tour setup in general encroaches on the golf course in such a way that players are allowed to regularly get their hands on the ball for "relief" of certain obstructions put in place by said tour. I really don't have an issue with range finders or yardage markers because they benefit no single player and speed up play. Rules such as being able to call on the gallery to help move a giant stone can have unfair consequences on the playing competitor as some competitors might not get the help from the gallery to move said giant stone. I say if you and your caddy can't move it, play it as it lies or take an unplayable.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, naylor said:

I really don't have an issue with range finders or yardage markers because they benefit no single player and speed up play. 

 

They benefit the players who cannot estimate yardage semi-accurately.

 

Same vein as if they put everybody in carts.  Suddenly the guys who were in good enough shape to walk a really rigorous course are on the same plan as desk jockeys like myself.

 

My point is, you aren't going to get agreement on what the spirit of the game is.  Some folks are probably okay with stymies.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, naylor said:

The tour setup in general encroaches on the golf course in such a way that players are allowed to regularly get their hands on the ball for "relief" of certain obstructions put in place by said tour. I really don't have an issue with range finders or yardage markers because they benefit no single player and speed up play. Rules such as being able to call on the gallery to help move a giant stone can have unfair consequences on the playing competitor as some competitors might not get the help from the gallery to move said giant stone. I say if you and your caddy can't move it, play it as it lies or take an unplayable.

You are welcome to play the rules however you like in a friendly game. Just know others will play by the official USGA rules.

 

21 minutes ago, naylor said:

It makes no difference who the player is???? and that rock looks partially imbedded in the sand. Not a good rule.

 

The Koepka rock is certainly not embedded. You might want to read up on golf definitions.

  • Like 1

WITB
Titleist TSi3 9* PX Riptide CB 60s

Titleist TS3 strong 3 wood 13.5* PX Hzrdus. Smoke 75s

Titleist 818H2 19* hybrid Tensei Blue

Srixon ZX7 5-pw Nippon Pro Modus 125s

Taylormade MG2 50* 54* 58* DG S300

Scotty Cameron Newport Special Select 34” with flow neck by LaMont

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, naylor said:

It makes no difference who the player is???? and that rock looks partially imbedded in the sand. Not a good rule.

 


 

When you see pros let the full weight of the club depress the grass behind their ball in the rough a few times, do you think that’s not in the spirit of the game?

 

Thats legal as well ; )

Edited by bscinstnct
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

They benefit the players who cannot estimate yardage semi-accurately.

 

Same vein as if they put everybody in carts.  Suddenly the guys who were in good enough shape to walk a really rigorous course are on the same plan as desk jockeys like myself.

 

My point is, you aren't going to get agreement on what the spirit of the game is.  Some folks are probably okay with stymies.


Estimating yardages and training oneself to pace off in one yard per stride were skills we learned years ago that are no longer needed.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, bscinstnct said:


Yes, and this boulder was also a movable obstruction that the rules official advised could be moved by the fans. 
 

There’s no question about this.

 

The rule is the same today....

 

Here is BK doing the same thing

 


 

 

666E6CF4-3F7B-4758-B419-FFED3B6109F6.jpeg

Tiger’s rock was much larger and more impressive. 🐯 💪🏼 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Shilgy said:

That is laughable…no other way to put it.

 

Expressly allowed by rule but “against the spirit of the game”?
 

Bull….

 

15.1a/1 – Removing a Loose Impediment, Including Assistance from Others
Loose impediments come in many shapes and sizes (such as acorns and large rocks), and the means and methods by which they may be removed are not limited, except that removal must not unreasonably delay play (see Rule 5.6a).
For example, a player may use a towel, hand or hat, or may lift or push a loose impediment for removal. A player is also allowed to seek help in removing loose impediments, such as by asking spectators for assistance in removing a large tree branch.

if it is a rock that needs a whole bunch of people to move, it is not a moveable obstruction.  Not a loose impediment.

Worst ruling ever by a PGA tour referee.  

It would never happen in  a major.

Awe, heck, can you imagine a player asking for a huge rock to be moved in a major?  Inconceivable. 

  • Like 1
Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing-glove.  P.G. Wodehouse
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Shilgy said:

You are welcome to play the rules however you like in a friendly game. Just know others will play by the official USGA rules.

 

The Koepka rock is certainly not embedded. You might want to read up on golf definitions.

I’m not sure why so many people think it was embedded. The desert areas at TPC Scottsdale are covered in decomposed granite, the Empire State Building wouldn’t embed unless it was partially buried with equipment. It’s simple to look at a boulder and see if it’s on top of the ground or embedded in that area. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, gvogel said:

if it is a rock that needs a whole bunch of people to move, it is not a moveable obstruction.  Not a loose impediment.

Worst ruling ever by a PGA tour referee.  

It would never happen in  a major.

Awe, heck, can you imagine a player asking for a huge rock to be moved in a major?  Inconceivable. 

Or a TV crane maybe?

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, golfandfishing said:

Or a TV crane maybe?

Well, the TV crane is only there for the tournament.  Immovable obstruction.

 

The rock was there  before the tournament started, and would be put back in place after the tournament.  It should not have been moved.  It should not have been moved.  Ask the greens superintendent.

 

This is a ridiculous thread, and Tiger's ability to move the rock was also ridiculous.  Should never have happened.  When the cult of Tiger takes over, and folks move obstructions which they would not move for a player like Peter Malnati, the game is tarnished.  Not good.  Sorry, that whole deal demeaned the game.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing-glove.  P.G. Wodehouse
Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, gvogel said:

Well, the TV crane is only there for the tournament.  Immovable obstruction.

 

The rock was there  before the tournament started, and would be put back in place after the tournament.  It should not have been moved.  It should not have been moved.  Ask the greens superintendent.

 

This is a ridiculous thread, and Tiger's ability to move the rock was also ridiculous.  Should never have happened.  When the cult of Tiger takes over, and folks move obstructions which they would not move for a player like Peter Malnati, the game is tarnished.  Not good.  Sorry, that whole deal demeaned the game.

And yet…..per the rules it is expressly allowed.

 

 

So there is that.   Either play by the rules or don’t. Your choice. But never a good look to deride those that do.

WITB
Titleist TSi3 9* PX Riptide CB 60s

Titleist TS3 strong 3 wood 13.5* PX Hzrdus. Smoke 75s

Titleist 818H2 19* hybrid Tensei Blue

Srixon ZX7 5-pw Nippon Pro Modus 125s

Taylormade MG2 50* 54* 58* DG S300

Scotty Cameron Newport Special Select 34” with flow neck by LaMont

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/11/2021 at 10:34 AM, Loki said:

Correct, that it doesn't violate the rules of golf but it DOES violate the spirit.

 

Here is another example :

 

 

 

Cleveland TL310 10.5* driver

Cleveland HB Launcher 15* 3-wood

Srixon H65  19* 3 hybrid and 22* 4 hybrid

Mizuno MP63 5 thru 9-iron

Cleveland RTX 48-52-56-64 wedges

Scotty Cameron Classic III putter

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Our picks

    • Post in Generation 3 P790 in 2021?
      Post in Generation 3 P790 in 2021?
        • Thanks
        • Like
    • 2021 3M Open - Discussion and Links
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
      2021 3M Open - Tuesday #1
      2021 3M Open - Tuesday #2
      2021 3M Open - Tuesday #3
      2021 3M Open - Tuesday #4
      2021 3M Open - Tuesday #5
      2021 3M Open - Tuesday #6
      2021 3M Open - Tuesday #7
      2021 3M Open - Tuesday #8
       
      2021 3M Open - Wednesday #1
      2021 3M Open - Wednesday #2
      2021 3M Open - Wednesday #3
      2021 3M Open - Wednesday #4
      2021 3M Open - Wednesday #5
       
       
       
      TaylorMade MG3 wedges - 2021 3M Open
      Mizuno 225 2 iron - 2021 3M Open
      TaylorMade Mini Driver - 2021 3M Open
      Scotty Cameron putters - 2021 3M Open
      New Odyssey putter cover - 2021 3M Open
      Bettinardi wedges - 2021 3M Open
      Rypstick training aid - 2021 3M Open
      Bettinardi putters and covers - 2021 3M Open
      Kuch putting right armlock - 2021 3M Open
       
       
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 15 replies
    • 2021 TPC Colorado Champ. @ Heron Lakes WITB Photos- Discussion & Links
      Please put any questions or comments here...
       
      2021 TPC Colorado Championship @ Heron Lakes - Tuesday #1
      2021 TPC Colorado Championship @ Heron Lakes - Tuesday #2
      2021 TPC Colorado Championship @ Heron Lakes - Tuesday #3
      2021 TPC Colorado Championship @ Heron Lakes - Tuesday #4
      2021 TPC Colorado Championship @ Heron Lakes - Tuesday #5
      2021 TPC Colorado Championship @ Heron Lakes - Tuesday #6
      2021 TPC Colorado Championship @ Heron Lakes - Tuesday #7
       
      Titleist T200 2& 3 irons - 2021 TPC Colorado Championship @ Heron Lakes
       

       

       
      • 16 replies
    • 2021 Rocket Mortgage Classic WITB Photos- Discussion and Links
      Please put any questions or comments here.
       
      2021 Rocket Mortgage Classic - Monday #1
      2021 Rocket Mortgage Classic - Monday #2
      2021 Rocket Mortgage Classic - Monday #3
      2021 Rocket Mortgage Classic - Monday #4
      2021 Rocket Mortgage Classic - Monday #5
       
      Cameron putters - 2021 Rocket Mortgage Classic
       

       
       
       
       
      • 15 replies
    • 2021 Travelers Championship - Discussion & Links
      2021 Titleist T100 irons (in hand photos) - Travelers Championship
      2021 Titleist T100S irons (in hand photos) - Travelers Championship
      2021 Titleist U 505 (in hand photos) - Travelers Championship
      Mitsubishi Tensei K series (red, white & blue US Open) shaft - 2021 Travelers Championship
       
      Rickie Fowler's custom Cameron putters - 2021 Travelers Championship
      Scotty Cameron putters - 2021 Travelers Championship
       
      2021 Travelers Championship - Tuesday #1
      2021 Travelers Championship - Tuesday #2
       
      • 20 replies

×
×
  • Create New...