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So hear is my question I have the ventus black 6x and I’m so used to 70gram shafts but the ventus black 7x is to heavy and the 6x is a little to light.  So my question is has anyone ever put a strip of lead tape around the shaft somewhere say in the middle of maybe by the grip to make the shaft a little heavier. Then obviously make the head heavier to get my swing weight proper.  Maybe that a stupid question but any answer will do..

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It's not an across the board truism, at least in effective flex terms.  Some companies manufacture their shafts such that the flex is equivalent across weights.  With some others, the heavier weights

The point is that the same swing weight value that the scale reads doesn't always mean the same head weight feel for the player.   The scale balance point is a contrived feature only meant to help dea

Adding weight to the club via lead tape would be a reasonable and cheap experiment.  I'd start by adding weight at the balance point of the club and see how you like the feel.  Adding a little weight

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Here, is your answer, if a shaft is too light, you can put lead tape on the shaft to make it feel heavier. Put it around 14” from the butt of the grip, and it won’t change the swing weight, because it should be close to the balance point of the club.

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You can add weight to the shaft with lead tape, sure, but do understand that a 60x shaft with added weight is not the same as a 70x. The heavier shaft is built heavier and structurally has more material, which means more stability.
 

If you’re just looking for feel, then sure, go for it. If you’re looking to change shaft characteristics, then you might need to look another direction. 

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Mario Good Times said:

So hear is my question I have the ventus black 6x and I’m so used to 70gram shafts but the ventus black 7x is to heavy and the 6x is a little to light.  So my question is has anyone ever put a strip of lead tape around the shaft somewhere say in the middle of maybe by the grip to make the shaft a little heavier. Then obviously make the head heavier to get my swing weight proper.  Maybe that a stupid question but any answer will do..

yes add the weight so it bisects 14" down from the butt.
however it will raise the balance point of the club.

Edited by BREWMASTER95060
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15 hours ago, Mario Good Times said:

Then obviously make the head heavier to get my swing weight proper. 

 

Heavier shaft generally results in a heavier swing weight.   If you wanted to keep the swing weight the same then you'd have to lighten the head weight NOT make the head heavier as you seem to think.

 

But you really shouldn't try to keep the swing weight the same if you change the static weight (shaft weight or even grip weight changes).   You should forget any previous swing weight value and go through the process of refitting the swing weight or head weight.    If fact, if the 6x really feels too light and the 7x feels too heavy, then there is a good chance that the problem is really a head weight problem than a shaft weight problem.

 

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2 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

But you really shouldn't try to keep the swing weight the same if you change the static weight (shaft weight or even grip weight changes).   You should forget any previous swing weight value and go through the process of refitting the swing weight or head weight.    If fact, if the 6x really feels too light and the 7x feels too heavy, then there is a good chance that the problem is really a head weight problem than a shaft weight problem.

+1.  Best to play with head weights by feel and forget about swingweight when going to different shafts of different weights and balance points. 

 

You can do the 14" from butt that others are saying, but the 14" is just "tricking the scale" to get the same SW because that's where the SW scale fulcrum point.  It's still an offset load in relation to your hands (still a different torque felt in the hands at the same SW).  Better would be to find the balance point of the shaft and center the tape there.  Even better IMO would be to try to match the overall weight and torque at 0" fulcrum (will also match swingweight at 14" or any fulcrum point) of a heavier club you like, and use the method below if you want to go with weighting the shaft.

 

Excel sheet 3rd tab:

20210511_073227.jpg.00bdf72bb0ce111a0a4e92eda150cd55.jpg

 

Swingweight_Calculator_20210324.xlsx

 

The tape placement will be calculated according to balance points of the heavy club and light club.  I played with a driver weighted like this for a year as an experiment to "match" a heavier setup I preferred, and it was great!  However, play with lead tape on the head first though!

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36 minutes ago, BREWMASTER95060 said:

SW is weight distribution. I can feel it.
matching different heads and shafts:
6 iron balance point= (((5 iron total weight)*(5 iron balance point)^2)/6 iron weight)^1/2

 

 

Yes, swing weight is about mass distribution, but it's not really about balance.

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, MFBach said:

The heavier shaft is built heavier and structurally has more material, which means more stability.

 

It's not an across the board truism, at least in effective flex terms.  Some companies manufacture their shafts such that the flex is equivalent across weights.  With some others, the heavier weights play stiffer.

 

All depends on how they build it.  

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Heavier shaft generally results in a heavier swing weight.   If you wanted to keep the swing weight the same then you'd have to lighten the head weight NOT make the head heavier as you seem to think.

 

But you really shouldn't try to keep the swing weight the same if you change the static weight (shaft weight or even grip weight changes).   You should forget any previous swing weight value and go through the process of refitting the swing weight or head weight.    If fact, if the 6x really feels too light and the 7x feels too heavy, then there is a good chance that the problem is really a head weight problem than a shaft weight problem.

 

 

This is where I like the Dave Tutelman idea, which appears to be an attempt at manipulating head weight as a swing-MOI approximation.

 

I think I've posted this to you before, Stuart, but for general consumption.... 

 

The idea I'm borrowing is to add one third of the reduction in shaft weight to the clubhead.  Drop your shaft weight 10g, add 3g to the clubhead, and so on.

 

This is part of the process that gave me a driver at E1 back in the day.  LOL

 

Edited by NRJyzr
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2 hours ago, NRJyzr said:
16 hours ago, MFBach said:

The heavier shaft is built heavier and structurally has more material, which means more stability.

 

It's not an across the board truism, at least in effective flex terms.  Some companies manufacture their shafts such that the flex is equivalent across weights.  With some others, the heavier weights play stiffer.

 

All depends on how they build it.


You're 100% correct. I was speaking generally in trying to point out that an adjusted (lead taped) 60x wouldn’t necessarily play the same as a 70x, even at the exact same weight, based on shaft composition and construction. 
 

There is a wide range of poster knowledge on this board, so I usually try to provide an answer with the same level of complexity as the question. You’re point is completely accurate though. 

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2 hours ago, BREWMASTER95060 said:

No

Pile on as much lead tape as you like at the SW scale's fulcrum point and you're getting the same swingweight.  I understand a relationship between a 14" fulcrum scale and MOI match or feel match can be made, but same can be done for Kenneth Smith's 12" fulcrum scale.  If that had become popular, people would be saying to place it at 12".  To each his own!

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11 hours ago, joostin said:

Pile on as much lead tape as you like at the SW scale's fulcrum point and you're getting the same swingweight.  I understand a relationship between a 14" fulcrum scale and MOI match or feel match can be made, but same can be done for Kenneth Smith's 12" fulcrum scale.  If that had become popular, people would be saying to place it at 12".  To each his own!

the 14" is just "tricking the scale"????
"Pile on as much lead tape as you like at the SW scale's fulcrum point and you're getting the same swingweight."
sound like you are debate yourself.
How is adding weight at 14" from the butt "tricking the scale"??
 

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9 hours ago, BREWMASTER95060 said:

the 14" is just "tricking the scale"????
"Pile on as much lead tape as you like at the SW scale's fulcrum point and you're getting the same swingweight."
sound like you are debate yourself.
How is adding weight at 14" from the butt "tricking the scale"??
 

 

The point is that the same swing weight value that the scale reads doesn't always mean the same head weight feel for the player.   The scale balance point is a contrived feature only meant to help deal with head weight changes for small changes in playing length, not shaft weight, not grip weight.

 

Where to add the weight is completely arbitrary.  There is no right or wrong place.   A change in static weight means you can't reuse or rely on any old swing weight value so there is no point in trying to keep it the same.   It means you really should refit for head weight each time you change the static weight.  

 

My personal view is that the higher (toward the grip) the point on the club the tape is added, the less likely that refit of the head wight needs to result in a reduction of the head weight - which isn't always easy.

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12 hours ago, BREWMASTER95060 said:

the 14" is just "tricking the scale"????
"Pile on as much lead tape as you like at the SW scale's fulcrum point and you're getting the same swingweight."
sound like you are debate yourself.
How is adding weight at 14" from the butt "tricking the scale"??
 

The swingweight scale simply has calibrated markings that coincide with torque around a 14" fulcrum point.  Torque = Force x Distance from that point, so any force times zero distance gives zero added torque, which gives the same swingweight.  That's all.  Didn't mean for controversy. 

 

The phrase is seen when people change some static weight of the club and attempt to keep the same swingweight by changing the grip's weight.  With those changes, I can't say it any better than Stuart did above.  Hence the old trial and error method recommended when changing any static weight of a club rather than trying to hit a specific swingweight number. 

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Posted (edited)

Adding weight to the club via lead tape would be a reasonable and cheap experiment.  I'd start by adding weight at the balance point of the club and see how you like the feel.  Adding a little weight to the head works for many people that feel a shaft/club is too light too.  Personally, I like a high swingweight when using light shafts vs. a lower swingweight with clubs that are heavier overall.  Just play around and employ trial and error.  That's the beauty of lead tape.

Edited by Nessism
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