LPGA Tour Stats

[Golf Dino]

There was some discussion about Shotlink and a few other things on various other threads, so I thought it would be more efficient to create one thread for all discussion on LPGA tour stats (everything but the Ballstriking that @Argonne69 has already put together on another thread).  

 

So regarding Shot link data or better data from the LPGA, I distinctly recalled something that the LPGA was trying to do or musing to do with Arccos Golf.  Plus we had a good discussion about it with Beth Ann and Sophie Walker on a podcast show segment about what they would do if they were commissioner.  

 

Anyway, I came across this today from GD Top Instructor -- Trillium Rose:

 

 

 

So here is what she wrote in her Instagram post about the device:

 

I’m so in love with this little tiny device that can sit in the palm of my hand. It’s @arccosgolf and if you swipe you can see just one little snippet of what it does. I’m holding the clip in my hand and wear it while playing. The sensors on my clubs connect via Bluetooth and all of my shot data is stored in a very smart and powerful app.

I love to play without keeping score - but I also really want to know where my strengths and weaknesses are. Arccos fits the bill (in spades).

I also lost my rangefinder (that’s another story) but it actually doesn’t matter because the app is ALSO A RANGEFINDER. I can see from the app what my distance to the pin it at any point during the round.

But it gets better.. because I’ve played with it a bunch, my yardages are saved in the app and it can help me predict what club to use, called Arccos caddie.

I love this company and what it does for my own game. I recommend it to all of my players who are interested and ready to take their game to the next level. #arccospartner #arccosgolf #arccoscaddie

 

 

[Argonne69]

Scrambling. We have to find a reliable source for scrambling stats. Probably the 2nd most important stat next to greens in regulation.

 

[KBong]

10 hours ago, Golf Dino said:

There was some discussion about Shotlink and a few other things on various other threads, so I thought it would be more efficient to create one thread for all discussion on LPGA tour stats (everything but the Ballstriking that @Argonne69 has already put together on another thread).  

 

So regarding Shot link data or better data from the LPGA, I distinctly recalled something that the LPGA was trying to do or musing to do with Arccos Golf.  Plus we had a good discussion about it with Beth Ann and Sophie Walker on a podcast show segment about what they would do if they were commissioner.  

 

 

Do you have a link to the podcast?...thanks.

 

I have heard Arccos can be a bit cumbersome....I've yet to play golf with or know anyone continually using Arccos....if they did use Arccos it's because it came with their driver and then they gave it up after a while.

I think the annual subscription is also a deterrent.

 

 

[Golf Dino]

 

 

Well the concept was that Arccos would partner with the LPGA, so I suspect that the "subscription" part of it would be included.

 

Here is the Podcast Links:

 

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1354720/7663666-talking-lpga-and-the-2021-season-ahead.mp3?download=true

 

It's around the 40:00 mark 

[Golf Dino]

17 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

Scrambling. We have to find a reliable source for scrambling stats. Probably the 2nd most important stat next to greens in regulation.

 

 

I would think that if it is configured properly, the Arccos system would also provide data on Proximity to Hole which would be phenomenal data.  

[KBong]

2 hours ago, Golf Dino said:

 

 

Well the concept was that Arccos would partner with the LPGA, so I suspect that the "subscription" part of it would be included.

 

Here is the Podcast Links:

 

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1354720/7663666-talking-lpga-and-the-2021-season-ahead.mp3?download=true

 

It's around the 40:00 mark 

I was referring to Arccos in general in my previous post.

 

Unless there's a more seamless Arccos system we aren't aware of or in development.....and unless it becomes a dictated new LPGA policy in a potential partnership.....I can't see the voluntary adoption of the current Arccos system where a pro has to add the Arcoss sensors onto each club...lengthening and changing the SW of each club and remembering on each shot and putt to tap the caddie link with the Arccos sensor.....I assume that's how the system works.

 

And it might be cumbersome to clip the caddie link onto their apparel...whether it be a dress or skort....and make to make sure it doesn't fall off or get lost.

 

There is a system available...it's called Shotlink....but the LPGA doesn't have the deep pockets or resources to enable/fund it.

 

Ya....it would be ideal to have the detailed shot data on the LPGA for those who are interested....but I can enjoy watching the LPGA as is....without that info.

 

I'd rather see more cameras on the course to cover more players vs. more detailed data.

The recent Asia swing coverage could have been deeper.

[Stooch]

One step closer now IMO

 

 

[Golf Dino]

That's a great point ... someone posted the piece about the LPGA wanting a betting deal so that they could use the money to invest in real time data.

 

Now that brings me to the point that was raised here about Arccos ... it would not take much now for them to implement this kind of technology to record shot data ... they just would not record club data ... but we'll see.  Maybe the market is lucrative enough to acquire Shotlink for each event.  

[Argonne69]

How exactly does ShotLink work? Is there a person(s) in a tower on each hole with a laser shooting the ball/player, and noting the ball position, or is there a staff member walking with each group? 

 

[KBong]

31 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

How exactly does ShotLink work? Is there a person(s) in a tower on each hole with a laser shooting the ball/player, and noting the ball position, or is there a staff member walking with each group? 

 

I guess we are ALL too lazy to deep dive and search this out...myself included....lol

[JungleJimbo]

3 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

How exactly does ShotLink work? Is there a person(s) in a tower on each hole with a laser shooting the ball/player, and noting the ball position, or is there a staff member walking with each group? 

 

@Argonne69 Your 1st summary description = approximates the shotlink setup.

explained in this pgatour video (see from~38s timestamp). 
2nd video explains ShotLink Plus.

 

https://www.pgatour.com/video/2017/07/12/behind-the-powerful-tool-of-shotlink.html

 

 

[Argonne69]

So, at least two cameras on each par 4 and par 5, and several additional volunteers on each hole. Yeah, don't see that happening on the LPGA any time soon unless they get a big contribution from a corporate partner.

 

[JungleJimbo]

1 minute ago, Argonne69 said:

So, at least two cameras on each par 4 and par 5, and several additional volunteers on each hole. Yeah, don't see that happening on the LPGA any time soon unless they get a big contribution from a corporate partner.

 

There’s a further Shotlink process description here, and the Lead Time involved for the setup:

http://www.shotlink.com/tournaments-on-tour/volunteer-needs

[Argonne69]

After calculating the latest total driving numbers, I was curious how much they influenced the greens in regulation rankings. For the top 20 ballstrikers, here's their difference from their total driving rank:

 

1    Brooke M. Henderson    80.00%    +2
2    Matilda Castren    79.90%    +4
3    Mo Martin    78.90%    +80
4    Amy Olson    78.60%    +44
5    Jessica Korda    78.00%    +7
6    Lexi Thompson    77.60%    +6
7    Ally Ewing    77.40%    +15
8    Jin Young Ko    77.30%    +1
9    Moriya Jutanugarn    76.70%    +5
10    Yu Liu    76.40%    +100
11    Jennifer Kupcho    76.30%    -10
12    Mel Reid    76.10%    +47
13    Gerina Piller    76.00%    +3
14    In Gee Chun    75.50%    +10
15    Jodi Ewart Shadoff    75.00%    +17
15    Minjee Lee    75.00%    -3
15    Sei Young Kim    75.00%    0
18    Anna Nordqvist    74.80%    +40
18    Caroline Masson    74.80%    +32
18    So Yeon Ryu    74.80%    -11
18    Hannah Green    74.80%    +55

 

Not sure exactly what to make of the numbers. A number of players, Mo Martin in particular, stand out as having quite the iron skills. Her driving average puts her down on the total driving list, but she still manages to hit 78.9% of her greens. 'Guess being in the short grass is important when you're one of the shortest hitters. 

 

Players like Jennifer and So Yeon appear to give up ground with their iron play.

 

A number of the longer players seem to take advantage of their length despite their accuracy "issues" (e.g. Yu, Mel, Hannah) . 'Seems that not all missed fairways are created equal. I've seen this in my game. My accuracy has dropped a bit, but my misses are generally better than before, so my GIRs continue to inch up. 

 

 

[Golf Dino]

Hey @Argonne69 ... would it be possible for you to summarize the Total Driving and the Ball Striking stats (i.e.: how you calculate and what they measure?) 

 

It would be helpful to someone like me who would dearly love to have it as a "footnote" to your data posts so that I can remind myself.  

 

If Brooke keeps driving the ball as well as she is and maintains her current form with her irons/approach shots, I expect that she will claim another win or two this season just as the percentages will start to align for her a couple of times.

 

 

[Titleist_PT23]

3 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

After calculating the latest total driving numbers, I was curious how much they influenced the greens in regulation rankings. For the top 20 ballstrikers, here's their difference from their total driving rank:

 

1    Brooke M. Henderson    80.00%    +2
2    Matilda Castren    79.90%    +4
3    Mo Martin    78.90%    +80
4    Amy Olson    78.60%    +44
5    Jessica Korda    78.00%    +7
6    Lexi Thompson    77.60%    +6
7    Ally Ewing    77.40%    +15
8    Jin Young Ko    77.30%    +1
9    Moriya Jutanugarn    76.70%    +5
10    Yu Liu    76.40%    +100
11    Jennifer Kupcho    76.30%    -10
12    Mel Reid    76.10%    +47
13    Gerina Piller    76.00%    +3
14    In Gee Chun    75.50%    +10
15    Jodi Ewart Shadoff    75.00%    +17
15    Minjee Lee    75.00%    -3
15    Sei Young Kim    75.00%    0
18    Anna Nordqvist    74.80%    +40
18    Caroline Masson    74.80%    +32
18    So Yeon Ryu    74.80%    -11
18    Hannah Green    74.80%    +55

 

Not sure exactly what to make of the numbers. A number of players, Mo Martin in particular, stand out as having quite the iron skills. Her driving average puts her down on the total driving list, but she still manages to hit 78.9% of her greens. 'Guess being in the short grass is important when you're one of the shortest hitters. 

 

Players like Jennifer and So Yeon appear to give up ground with their iron play.

 

A number of the longer players seem to take advantage of their length despite their accuracy "issues" (e.g. Yu, Mel, Hannah) . 'Seems that not all missed fairways are created equal. I've seen this in my game. My accuracy has dropped a bit, but my misses are generally better than before, so my GIRs continue to inch up. 

 

 

Try a scatter plot of total driving rank vs. GIR rank and see if there's a regression line with any reasonable coefficient and R^2?

 

I think Kupcho and SYR's ranks are too high in each category to draw much of a conclusion about either's change in GIR?  They are both hitting the ball very well tee to green.

 

Not sure why Minjee's game is in the dumps?  

[18majors]

41 minutes ago, agolf1 said:

Try a scatter plot of total driving rank vs. GIR rank and see if there's a regression line with any reasonable coefficient and R^2?

 

I think Kupcho and SYR's ranks are too high in each category to draw much of a conclusion about either's change in GIR?  They are both hitting the ball very well tee to green.

 

Not sure why Minjee's game is in the dumps?  

 

 

I haven't analyzed Minjee's stats as much as I've done with Nelly, Lydia or Yealimi; but without looking into it my answer would be putting and/or scrambling.

 

These are her YTD results:

 

Putt per GIR                         1.86                    118

Putting average                   30.82                 126

Scoring average                  70.73                  31

Total birdies                         72                       69

 

2020 was a short season, but Minjee led the tour on total birdies.  Trouble is, it's hard to birdie when a player doesn't putt well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by 18majors

[KBong]

8 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

 

 

Not sure exactly what to make of the numbers. A number of players, Mo Martin in particular, stand out as having quite the iron skills. Her driving average puts her down on the total driving list, but she still manages to hit 78.9% of her greens. 'Guess being in the short grass is important when you're one of the shortest hitters. 

 

I think the small sample size is affecting Mo's odd results.

She has only played 3 events....considering a near 80% GIR....it's odd she's had 3/3 trunk slams.

 

With longer approach shots...her proximity to the hole must be pretty bad....combine it with poor lag putting, likely too many missed shortish putts and likely too many 3 jacks...she has a pathetic 35 putts per rd.

 

35 putts per rd indicates a 11-13 cap....though a 11-13 cap likely has shorter avg putts than Mo cause a typical 11-13 cap would only avg 30% GIR's.....chipping and pitching a lot.

[KBong]

4 hours ago, 18majors said:

 

 

I haven't analyzed Minjee's stats as much as I've done with Nelly, Lydia or Yealimi; but without looking into it my answer would be putting and/or scrambling.

 

These are her YTD results:

 

Putt per GIR                         1.86                    118

Putting average                   30.82                 126

Scoring average                  70.73                  31

Total birdies                         72                       69

 

2020 was a short season, but Minjee led the tour on total birdies.  Trouble is, it's hard to birdie when a player doesn't putt well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think Minjee's brain is off....I've never felt she the toughest mentally when trying to win....and I think she's frustrated with her average play this year and just can't really keep a rd connected to score well consistently.

 

Is it just me, but has anyone else notice that Minjee and Jason are just a bit too touchy feely....I never really noticed this kind of behavior with her other loops.

 

[JungleJimbo]

2 hours ago, KBong said:

I think Minjee's brain is off....I've never felt she the toughest mentally when trying to win....and I think she's frustrated with her average play this year and just can't really keep a rd connected to score well consistently.

 

Is it just me, but has anyone else notice that Minjee and Jason are just a bit too touchy feely....I never really noticed this kind of behavior with her other loops.

 

@KBongWill confess my ignorance... i saw In-Bee affectionately placing a cold-towel around her caddie's neck, during the HSBC HWWC in Singapore recently and thought to myself "wow, that's a bit touchy-feely".... then realised In-Bee's caddie = her husband! 

Thought i'd previously read somewhere that there's quite a few hook-ups amongst the PGA/ LPGA pro-golfer circus/ caddies(?) etc... but can't find that article
(would like to re-read it again, if anyone has the URL to share!) ... bit off-topic, but also curious about those Stats!  (sorry @Golf Dino)

.."With husband on the bag, Park In-bee feels comfortable ahead of LPGA major" (20Aug2020)

..“Don’t Sleep With the Caddies…”

(By Stephanie Wei under Caddies / By Guest Writer, LPGA Tour pro Paige Mackenzie, Aug2009)

..https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2020/10/27/lpga-player-caddie-couples-2020/

 

..https://golf.com/news/features/lee-westwood-fiancee-helen-storey/

 

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by JungleJimbo
edited, after i remembered examples on the PGA too! e.g. Lee Westwood & lovely Helen as his caddie

[KBong]

Jimbo

Yup....I've read that article that you likely read....I'm just to lazy to search it out....I think Cristie Kerr was quoted about the hook-ups.

[JungleJimbo]

11 minutes ago, KBong said:

Jimbo

Yup....I've read that article that you likely read....I'm just to lazy to search it out....I think Cristie Kerr was quoted about the hook-ups.

@KBong: good memory! 
Enough info to find this quote from Christie Kerr:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/ct-lpga-caddies-greenstein-spt-0702-20170701-column.html

”The caddie chronicles make for great tour gossip.

"Hooking up? It happens," Kerr said. "It's like high school out there. I mean, what else are we going to talk about? We're tired of talking about golf."

One caddie called the various caddie-player switcheroos "incestuous."

"It does tend to be very much a caddie carousel on the LPGA Tour," Golf Channel reporter Karen Stupples said, "and it's a bit of a running joke, especially among the top caddies."”

[KBong]

5 minutes ago, JungleJimbo said:

@KBong: good memory! 
Enough info to find this quote from Christie Kerr:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/ct-lpga-caddies-greenstein-spt-0702-20170701-column.html

”The caddie chronicles make for great tour gossip.

"Hooking up? It happens," Kerr said. "It's like high school out there. I mean, what else are we going to talk about? We're tired of talking about golf."

One caddie called the various caddie-player switcheroos "incestuous."

"It does tend to be very much a caddie carousel on the LPGA Tour," Golf Channel reporter Karen Stupples said, "and it's a bit of a running joke, especially among the top caddies."”

Kerr mentioned Jason Gilroyed in the above article and it's Jason who is now Minjee's loop.

 

From my observations....I think Minjee is naturally shy, who doesn't like the limelight...she goes under the radar...not one to seek attention.

From what I saw at the 2015 CWO....I think Minjee is quite friendly with Sura Ko....Lydia's older sister and IMG road manager.

I think quite a few golf pros tend to be somewhat introverted and become more comfortable with the media and fans as time passes on.

 

Supposedly Minjee's younger brother, Min Woo,  is more extroverted and quite the character.

 

Jessica Korda fired Jason after 9 holes at 2013 USWO on Sat....and Korda's BF....Johnny D (of the Asian massage parlor fame...lol),,,,,looped for Jessica for the remainder of the weekend.

 

Things have now changed forever (pandemic)...so less fan interaction....I haven't attended a LPGA event since the 2016 KPMG....but if you ever get a chance to chat with some of the caddies...they are a good resource to find out info you'd normally never obtain elsewhere....about the life on tour and info about their pro.

 

It only takes a few seconds to determine which loops will chat.

Oh ya...and some parents are also nice to chat with too.

[Golf Dino]

@KBong 

Quote

 

Obviously if it's $100/rd = $1.2M

Is this a lot of money???....I don't know or if it generates a +ve ROI.....though I suspect ROI on this project is not high in KPMG's books.

 

9) What about all the processing and vetting required to process all the $200 transactions within the $2.4M cost.

 

 

So it appears that KPMG is leveraging this initiative to position themselves as a "go to" service provider within the realm of data collection and analysis ... something that they already do whether it is within their audit division or their investment advising subsidiary ... though I am not sure how much interest/ownership they have in this area given the Arthur Anderson Consulting fiasco with Enron back in the early 2000s.*   

 

*It was deemed a conflict of interest in that AAC was consulting on the business development side for Enron and its energy business while at the same time serving as auditor providing assurance that everything on the books was on the 'up and up'.  So there was a tightening of regulations regarding these aspects.   

 

 

Edited June 23, 2021 by Golf Dino

[Golf Dino]

Here is the full FAQ sheet from KPMG on their new role as the Official Data and Analytics Advisor to the LPGA:  

 

Edited June 23, 2021 by Golf Dino

[KBong]

2 hours ago, Golf Dino said:

@KBong 

 

 ... though I am not sure how much interest/ownership they have in this area given the Arthur Anderson Consulting fiasco with Enron back in the early 2000s.*   

 

*It was deemed a conflict of interest in that AAC was consulting on the business development side for Enron and its energy business while at the same time serving as auditor providing assurance that everything on the books was on the 'up and up'.  So there was a tightening of regulations regarding these aspects.   

 

 

LOL

Funny you should mention this.

I used to work for a large multinational that inflated figures and accounting practices that didn't comply with GAAP....that lead to multi billion $ of inflated values.

Multiple company officers were charged and fined by the SEC.

 

And guess who the auditors were?....you know...the ones hired to audit and sign off on the financial reports for accuracy and compliance to GAAP.

Yup.....KPMG....lol.

PwC replaced KPMG as auditors and advisors.

[Argonne69]

Really curious if the "manual" process will be using a mobile electronic device, or paper and pencil. Walking scorers have dedicated electronic devices that feed the information in real time. Paper and pencil would probably be easier to implement as an initial method of collection, but then the data has to be input after the round.

 

[Golf Dino]

2 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

Really curious if the "manual" process will be using a mobile electronic device, or paper and pencil. Walking scorers have dedicated electronic devices that feed the information in real time. Paper and pencil would probably be easier to implement as an initial method of collection, but then the data has to be input after the round.

 

 

Good point.  Let's hope that they implement something akin to what you have mentioned.  I suspect it must be given the statement that the broadcast partners will have the info in real time.

[Lobby]

I'm really proud of KPMG for stepping up with this data collection.  

Analyzing stats is one of the very fun thing sports fans like to do.   Making these states easily available for us to pontificate on can only help the game.

[Shilgy]

I must have missed the notice. Where do we find these stats the LPGA is now able to track?   The stats I see are the same old vanilla distance, fairways, GIR, Putts and sand saves