Help! I’m about to give up bc of this flip

[TexasMacks]

So I really struggle stopping at the ball and not following through. Is my grip too strong? It just feels really tight when I try to follow through. Any tips would be appreciated as I’m about to give up. Also I have hyper extendable elbows, could that be the reason I’m can’t finish?(my right arm is locked out beyond normal at impact)

[TexasMacks]

Also I can’t ever get my head to be still, could that be an issue with my fat shots / flipping?

[Valtiel]

The inability to keep your head still is normally a good indication that you are exceeding your range of motion, and I would say that is definitely the case here. 



Right from the start, your address posture is not very balanced. Your butt is stuck out really far and your hands are close enough to your body (not a bad thing on its own) that you will need to maintain this posture/hip depth throughout the swing to allow space for your arms to get back to the ball on plane. The problem is that you don't, as we see your hips throughout the swing getting closer to the ball (loss of hip depth). The space between your butt and the red line in panel 3 and 4 is roughly how much closer your hips *should* be at address, and that is the first adjustment I would make. If that feels crowded or unbalanced then adjust your distance from the ball slightly until it feels comfortable. 

The second problem is that you're taking the club back very inside and very open. This sets up a situation where you have to do a lot of rerouting and saving with the hands, something our brains tend to know intuitively but we may not know consciously. The backswing/downswing relationship is a pretty unintuitive sequence and most ams tend to do it backwards:



This is roughly the same point in your swing at both ends; backswing and downswing. These should be flipped. In the backswing you want the club more in line with your hands and coming up steeper so you can then naturally shallow in response when you start your transition (although you still don't want to be *this* shallow/flat). Instead you're coming back very flat and open as I mentioned and this creates the opposite natural response in transition (steepening) which tends to get you off plane and adds another thing to compensate for. 

Back to the top image, panel #3 shows the culmination of all these problems. For a short iron you have rotated an excessive amount, lost hip depth, your head has come up, and your wrists have broken down creating an open clubface. Everything about this position is problematic as all of your effort must now be spent compensating for all these flaws. As a result, your hip rotation has to completely stall to give you time to do this, and now your upper body is leading the downswing and your lower body is dragging behind. Like this swing plane issues above, this is also backwards.

Moving on to impact in panel #5 we see the result of all this. Your hands have come in much higher than they were at address due to the steepening and loss of hip depth, your hips are square and blocked out which prevents you from consistently finding your low point and robs you of power, and your head has come up. We of course see the dreaded goat hump as a result:



We can see with Phil that his loss of hip depth (humping) is minimal and his hands have returned much closer to where they started. This is also a much longer iron for Phil, if this were a short iron/wedge his hands would be right on that dot. 

This may sound like a lot, but most of it is happening in response to "setting the table incorrectly" so to speak. Starting from the beginning you will want to:

1) Change your address position to be more neutral as I described above
2) Take the club back much straighter/steeper/more shut
3) Listen to your head/body when it comes to the length of your swing and reduce everything; length of backswing, hip turn, and shoulder turn. Everything is just too much there with a short iron and it is doing you no favors.

From there you should then be able to transition correctly by leading with the lower body and allowing the club to more naturally fall on to plane because you won't need to create time to compensate for faulty fundamentals. I recommend taking each of these things one at a time and practicing with smaller, punchier swings to start out with. Please post some follow up videos if you can to check in! Hope this helps. 👍

Edited May 12, 2021 by Valtiel

[Shushwap]

I would get a good stretching routine.. it's been a massive help for my game.. I always thought I couldn't rotate.. the problem was I was tight and couldn't 

[TexasMacks]

20 hours ago, Valtiel said:

The inability to keep your head still is normally a good indication that you are exceeding your range of motion, and I would say that is definitely the case here. 



Right from the start, your address posture is not very balanced. Your butt is stuck out really far and your hands are close enough to your body (not a bad thing on its own) that you will need to maintain this posture/hip depth throughout the swing to allow space for your arms to get back to the ball on plane. The problem is that you don't, as we see your hips throughout the swing getting closer to the ball (loss of hip depth). The space between your butt and the red line in panel 3 and 4 is roughly how much closer your hips *should* be at address, and that is the first adjustment I would make. If that feels crowded or unbalanced then adjust your distance from the ball slightly until it feels comfortable. 

The second problem is that you're taking the club back very inside and very open. This sets up a situation where you have to do a lot of rerouting and saving with the hands, something our brains tend to know intuitively but we may not know consciously. The backswing/downswing relationship is a pretty unintuitive sequence and most ams tend to do it backwards:



This is roughly the same point in your swing at both ends; backswing and downswing. These should be flipped. In the backswing you want the club more in line with your hands and coming up steeper so you can then naturally shallow in response when you start your transition (although you still don't want to be *this* shallow/flat). Instead you're coming back very flat and open as I mentioned and this creates the opposite natural response in transition (steepening) which tends to get you off plane and adds another thing to compensate for. 

Back to the top image, panel #3 shows the culmination of all these problems. For a short iron you have rotated an excessive amount, lost hip depth, your head has come up, and your wrists have broken down creating an open clubface. Everything about this position is problematic as all of your effort must now be spent compensating for all these flaws. As a result, your hip rotation has to completely stall to give you time to do this, and now your upper body is leading the downswing and your lower body is dragging behind. Like this swing plane issues above, this is also backwards.

Moving on to impact in panel #5 we see the result of all this. Your hands have come in much higher than they were at address due to the steepening and loss of hip depth, your hips are square and blocked out which prevents you from consistently finding your low point and robs you of power, and your head has come up. We of course see the dreaded goat hump as a result:



We can see with Phil that his loss of hip depth (humping) is minimal and his hands have returned much closer to where they started. This is also a much longer iron for Phil, if this were a short iron/wedge his hands would be right on that dot. 

This may sound like a lot, but most of it is happening in response to "setting the table incorrectly" so to speak. Starting from the beginning you will want to:

1) Change your address position to be more neutral as I described above
2) Take the club back much straighter/steeper/more shut
3) Listen to your head/body when it comes to the length of your swing and reduce everything; length of backswing, hip turn, and shoulder turn. Everything is just too much there with a short iron and it is doing you no favors.

From there you should then be able to transition correctly by leading with the lower body and allowing the club to more naturally fall on to plane because you won't need to create time to compensate for faulty fundamentals. I recommend taking each of these things one at a time and practicing with smaller, punchier swings to start out with. Please post some follow up videos if you can to check in! Hope this helps. 👍

Wow this was unbelievable that you took the time to do this analysis. I completely agree with all you are saying especially because i really struggle to have a consistent low point. IM going to try these and film each and work on each aspect. a couple quick questions. 

 

1) Thoughts on my right hand grip? Is it too strong? 

2) at the very begging of my swing i push the club handle forward in a hitch fashion. should i work on keeping that still and kind of "Drag" the handle back so it doesnt press forward? Or is that not something to focus on.

 

 

[TexasMacks]

19 hours ago, Shushwap said:

I would get a good stretching routine.. it's been a massive help for my game.. I always thought I couldn't rotate.. the problem was I was tight and couldn't 

Do you have any suggestions on stretches to do and what muscles to focus on?  Does something like product below help? 

[BraxtonFullerton]

Why pay for a device? You can do that stretch with your driver.

[Shushwap]

I like the 90 90 

I started the fit for golf program it's the best money I have ever spent 

[TexasMacks]

On 5/12/2021 at 4:15 PM, Valtiel said:

The inability to keep your head still is normally a good indication that you are exceeding your range of motion, and I would say that is definitely the case here. 



Right from the start, your address posture is not very balanced. Your butt is stuck out really far and your hands are close enough to your body (not a bad thing on its own) that you will need to maintain this posture/hip depth throughout the swing to allow space for your arms to get back to the ball on plane. The problem is that you don't, as we see your hips throughout the swing getting closer to the ball (loss of hip depth). The space between your butt and the red line in panel 3 and 4 is roughly how much closer your hips *should* be at address, and that is the first adjustment I would make. If that feels crowded or unbalanced then adjust your distance from the ball slightly until it feels comfortable. 

The second problem is that you're taking the club back very inside and very open. This sets up a situation where you have to do a lot of rerouting and saving with the hands, something our brains tend to know intuitively but we may not know consciously. The backswing/downswing relationship is a pretty unintuitive sequence and most ams tend to do it backwards:



This is roughly the same point in your swing at both ends; backswing and downswing. These should be flipped. In the backswing you want the club more in line with your hands and coming up steeper so you can then naturally shallow in response when you start your transition (although you still don't want to be *this* shallow/flat). Instead you're coming back very flat and open as I mentioned and this creates the opposite natural response in transition (steepening) which tends to get you off plane and adds another thing to compensate for. 

Back to the top image, panel #3 shows the culmination of all these problems. For a short iron you have rotated an excessive amount, lost hip depth, your head has come up, and your wrists have broken down creating an open clubface. Everything about this position is problematic as all of your effort must now be spent compensating for all these flaws. As a result, your hip rotation has to completely stall to give you time to do this, and now your upper body is leading the downswing and your lower body is dragging behind. Like this swing plane issues above, this is also backwards.

Moving on to impact in panel #5 we see the result of all this. Your hands have come in much higher than they were at address due to the steepening and loss of hip depth, your hips are square and blocked out which prevents you from consistently finding your low point and robs you of power, and your head has come up. We of course see the dreaded goat hump as a result:



We can see with Phil that his loss of hip depth (humping) is minimal and his hands have returned much closer to where they started. This is also a much longer iron for Phil, if this were a short iron/wedge his hands would be right on that dot. 

This may sound like a lot, but most of it is happening in response to "setting the table incorrectly" so to speak. Starting from the beginning you will want to:

1) Change your address position to be more neutral as I described above
2) Take the club back much straighter/steeper/more shut
3) Listen to your head/body when it comes to the length of your swing and reduce everything; length of backswing, hip turn, and shoulder turn. Everything is just too much there with a short iron and it is doing you no favors.

From there you should then be able to transition correctly by leading with the lower body and allowing the club to more naturally fall on to plane because you won't need to create time to compensate for faulty fundamentals. I recommend taking each of these things one at a time and practicing with smaller, punchier swings to start out with. Please post some follow up videos if you can to check in! Hope this helps. 👍

 

 

Ok @Valtielso I was at the range today and worked on what you had mentioned. I tucked my butt in and kept it there pretty good I think. I also worked on closing the face but I think my back swing needs to go more away from me at first as I still end up way open at the  top of the backswing. Any thoughts? Also I know I need to trim my swing down till I am more flexible.

 

 

 

 

also what about this front on view. I feel like my elbows being double jointed and locked out is impacting my swing? Thoughts on that? Also is my grip way too strong? I feel likey right hand is always cupped at impact. Lastly, am I leaning way too far back at impact? I believe I was using a pw there. 
 

 

[TexasMacks]

This is the one I feel like I’m leaning way to far backz

[TexasMacks]

4 minutes ago, Shushwap said:

I like the 90 90 

I started the fit for golf program it's the best money I have ever spent 

Thank you I will try this

[TexasMacks]

6 minutes ago, Shushwap said:

I like the 90 90 

I started the fit for golf program it's the best money I have ever spent 

@ShushwapDo you have a link by chance?

[Valtiel]

42 minutes ago, TexasMacks said:

 

 

Ok @Valtielso I was at the range today and worked on what you had mentioned. I tucked my butt in and kept it there pretty good I think. I also worked on closing the face but I think my back swing needs to go more away from me at first as I still end up way open at the  top of the backswing. Any thoughts? Also I know I need to trim my swing down till I am more flexible.

 

 

 

 

also what about this front on view. I feel like my elbows being double jointed and locked out is impacting my swing? Thoughts on that? Also is my grip way too strong? I feel likey right hand is always cupped at impact. Lastly, am I leaning way too far back at impact? I believe I was using a pw there. 
 

 

FullSizeRender.mov FullSizeRender.mov

There are some small moves in the right direction here, but most of the core issues have not changed much. I can see that you're trying that punchier approach which is good, but without someone actually physically there with you to guide you into different positions it becomes too easy to stay within what is/was familiar and not make any real meaningful adjustment. 



The club is still WAY flat and inside, although you have done a better job of managing the face in that it is fairly square, so that is an improvement. 



Your left wrist is a little less cupped, but that is still the same overly long backswing and excessive rotation that is causing problems. If you were able to rotate and utilize your body correctly from this position then I wouldn't be calling it out, but one of the common downstream problems of excessive rotation is not having enough speed to actually get to a proper impact position. Monte talks about this one and I will link his video below. The downstream result that I mentioned is this;



This is classic flip/cast position as your hips are stalled, your weight is still completely centered and even hanging back a little bit, and you've just thrown your hands at the ball. Low point consistency will always suffer severely with this kind of move, and you will really need to either figure out how to change your patterns and your approach on your own or find a good coach that can be hands on and help you with this. 
 

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by Valtiel

[Shushwap]

22 hours ago, TexasMacks said:

@ShushwapDo you have a link by chance?

https://fitforgolf.trainerize.com/

[TexasMacks]

1 hour ago, Shushwap said:

https://fitforgolf.trainerize.com/

Thank you @Shushwap

[Shushwap]

2 hours ago, TexasMacks said:

Thank you @Shushwap

Find a golf coach to work with and invest in a impact bag to help with rotation

[BraxtonFullerton]

If this is any help to your swing thoughts... feel like your first move of your backswing is with your shoulders only. You should feel like you're reaching straight back and AWAY from your body (depth, as it's called). This should help you hold your plane a little higher on the take-away. Second thought, stop your hands at shoulder height, don't bring them up any higher, this will help you cut down on slinging the club.