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A rant about hybrids...


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Posted (edited)

I am not entirely sure what conclusion I am hoping to reach with this, but, based on my "enjoy practice more than playing" thread and how much interest it got, perhaps others here are in a similar mindset. 

 

A bit about me and my game...

 

I played an obnoxious amount of golf between age 6 and 18. I am in Canada, so there is no college system here - nor could I ever afford to go even if I wanted. Life took me to the Dominican Republic and Colombia between age 18 and 27. I did not touch a club for nine years due to where I was and what I was doing - and an extreme lack of accessible courses. Back in Canada now, I got back into it last summer when my job shut down and the addiction is right back to where it was. Played 80 rounds last year and have punched in 15 already this year. The only difference for me now vs growing up is that I have no desire to play competitively. Hell, I don't even keep score half of the rounds anymore. I enjoy the walk, I enjoy practicing, I enjoy striking the ball well and plotting around a course. I just no longer have the energy to get mad, upset or frustrated about shots - or chase 325 yard drives. I just want to get to the practice green or course and just relax and hit great shots. 

 

Before I stopped playing (2009), I had the Titleist CB 695's. Saved all winter to get them one year. Played them 3-PW. I feel like hybrids were not a huge thing then - I could be wrong. We did not have a golf shop anywhere near by and aside from a guy at the course having a TM rescue, I just do not remember seeing them much. Now of course, they are all over from 2i-7i. 

 

I used to take pride in hitting my 2 driving iron, 3i and 4i. Loved them to death. Naturally, I figured I would get back to where I left off and keep going. But it is no longer there. I am much more inconsistent with ball striking than I ever remember being and there is a gap between how good I remember being (in my head) and how good I actually am. Youtube videos (also new to me vs when I used to play and NEVER thought about instruction) are not helping either. 

 

The one thing that has held over from youth to adulthood and this restart has been my brutally low ball flight. My driver swing speed is 114 comfortably. I certainly do not drop off with my irons. Talking with friends and remembering back, we always just played the game keeping the ball extremely low. I do not hold greens with any club stronger than 38*, I never remember spinning a ball back - ever - on any green with any shot. Greenside play is exclusively bump and runs with 7i or 8i, rarely does a wedge come out ever. I always play to land short and run it up or let it release to the hole. It has not stopped me from scoring as I broke par when I was younger and now after a year back am in the 70's at 6,600 yards. For me it just is what it is. 

 

With all of that said, I am incredibly intrigued by hybrids. But not just long irons. I am looking at the Ping G425's 4,5,6 and 7 hybrid. I am way out the golf marketing game and have a lot to catch up in terms of buzz words and such, but what I have noticed is EVERYTHING tends to be focused on handicap and sometimes swing speed. 

 

"This club is great for high handicappers"

"Low handicappers should only play these clubs"

"Game improvement - the hell does that mean?"

"High swing speed only!"

 

When it comes to hybrids, it seems any review or discussion is centred around...

 

"I don't like them because they go left"

"I am a senior so I love them and they help me hit it higher"

"It sat closed so I do not like it"

"I would love to play them, but I just can't have 8 head covers in my bag"

 

There are comparison videos looking at hybrid vs long iron/wood, but very little about dispersion and consistency of hybrids vs irons - especially for low ball flight players. I could not give two s***'s about ego or what people think of my bag. I will do my own thing and enjoy it. But I am trying to figure out a downside - as an extremely low ball hitter - of loading up on hybrids and taking advantage of height and spin. 

 

I think the situation is somewhat unique to me because it is really around...

 

Can I be more consistent both with well struck contact and being able to land it on greens and hold the green using hybrids - despite the potential loss of control due to height and variables that brings in

 

vs.

 

Can I be more consistent with continuing to rely running the ball up and having sporadic contact - despite having repeatable distance control and tighter dispersion (I think?) with irons

 

If hybrids are so much easier to hit and elevate am I a prime candidate for using several of them? 

 

I don't know, I guess I am just confused and at worst this was just a terrible obscenely long worded question that felt good to type out and get out of my head. But maybe someone can relate and have answers. 

 

Rant over. 

 

Edited by jetandollie
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Did this come in paperback ?

Best way to find out is buy a couple of used hybrids and put them in the bag at the range and course.

Weird how all the PGA pros hit perfectly straight bombs with their hybrids, the same clubs that wrx'ers say only go left.   Maybe we just need to learn to hit hybrids.   I used to be a 3 hea

Best way to find out is buy a couple of used hybrids and put them in the bag at the range and course.

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8 minutes ago, Quasimoto said:

Best way to find out is buy a couple of used hybrids and put them in the bag at the range and course.

This is what I did.

 

I bought my son a beginner set and it came with a 3h and 4h. I had never seen one in person before and I was intrigued. So I got a couple Nikes off eBay for $15 each and really liked the VR Pro 4h. 

 

I got a Lazrus 24* that I enjoy. But I just got a GAPR Mid that is kind of a hybrid hybrid. Kind of a fat iron that I really like.

 

I got a couple Adams, but they were meh. Everything was less than $25 other than the $65 Lazrus. Get a couple that look cool and smack them around. 

 

As far as practice vs playing, you can call what I do way more practice than playing. It's me in a power cart hitting 3-4 balls either from my legit lie, or where it should have been, or just maybe a little further back for real challenge. My club is a short 9 holes (2 par 5's, 2 par 3's, 5 par 4's) but I am often either by myself on the course or as many as 2 other guys in the morning. 

 

I just try to hit greens with different clubs and try to dial in my yards.

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Posted (edited)

Golf WRX logic dictates that I should have a driver, 3 and 5 or 7 metal, a UDI, and the rest of the irons.  I don't have that set up because I need a club that launches high and lands soft from 250 yards that my 2 hybrid fits the bill.  It sure as hell will go left on my if I put a horrible swing on it.  I can hit my 3 metal off the tee but at times I have trouble off the deck therefore I forgo the higher lofted fairway metals.  Like you stated, you should play whatever clubs that gets you from the tee box to the in the fewest strokes possible even if that means adding more hybrids to your bag. 

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If you’re driver SS is 114 mph and you can’t hold a green with a 9 iron, you’re (obviously) radically delofting the club, and essentially driving the leading edge into the ground. If you do that with a hybrid, most will just snap-hook closed. Playing a whole bag of hybrids would likely be an unusual experience.

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14 minutes ago, Jeff58 said:

If you’re driver SS is 114 mph and you can’t hold a green with a 9 iron, you’re (obviously) radically delofting the club, and essentially driving the leading edge into the ground. If you do that with a hybrid, most will just snap-hook closed. Playing a whole bag of hybrids would likely be an unusual experience.

 

Can almost guarantee it. I have worked with a couple of pros and despite fully understanding what they suggest, I can never implement it on the course, just sort of forced myself to play as is. 

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Use or use not you should.

 

Yoda aside, LPGA players game the snot out of hybrids. Dispersion doesn’t seem to be an issue. I’m double digit handicap at the moment and my 3H may be my favorite club. Also watch what Spieth did with a hybrid yesterday.

 

Or hit long irons - whatever floats your golfing boat. 

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Posted (edited)

I don't think there is much in it dispersion wise hybrid vs long iron on a well struck ball. I think the additional spin and launch of a hybrid would actually give you a much tighter dispersion as a low ball hitter. I know for me with a longer club in hand, the low bullet misses left and right are far more destructive than higher softer landing misses. 

 

I really dont think youll lose too much control moving to a hybrid since I think the launch is going to help with control.

Edited by Flip4000
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I think the best thing for you to do would to try a Hybrid and some at a Modern Golf / TXG (seeing that you're from Canada) with on a Trackman / GCQuad to give you all the data possible. 

 

Sounds like you could be steering towards the larger UDIs like TM SIM DHY and Titleist U510 as well. In terms of high SS leading to high spin rate on Hybrid,  I have a Driver SS at 118 and had the SIM(1) Hybrid and with it properly fitted it the spin rate was fine. I did however revert back to the Driving Iron just strictly on looks and preference... 

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47 minutes ago, humps said:

I think the best thing for you to do would to try a Hybrid and some at a Modern Golf / TXG (seeing that you're from Canada) with on a Trackman / GCQuad to give you all the data possible. 

 

Sounds like you could be steering towards the larger UDIs like TM SIM DHY and Titleist U510 as well. In terms of high SS leading to high spin rate on Hybrid,  I have a Driver SS at 118 and had the SIM(1) Hybrid and with it properly fitted it the spin rate was fine. I did however revert back to the Driving Iron just strictly on looks and preference... 

 

interesting. Figured it would be more pronounced in the higher lofts, but I guess the right shaft can fix anything. 

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47 minutes ago, mookio said:

 

interesting. Figured it would be more pronounced in the higher lofts, but I guess the right shaft can fix anything. 

 

Yeah, I had this negative view with Hybrids with how High and how high of a Spin Rate I have with everything in my bag but SIM Hybrid was lower launching than most Hybrids I tried and had a 100TX Tensei Pro White with it and seemed to do the trick. Fitting session helped figure stuff out with what worked and what didn't work. 

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Posted (edited)

I would look for a used hybrid +/- 20 degrees and see how it goes before investing much.  If a used hybrid doesn’t work out you can just sell it and not lose much at all.  If you are a very low hitter with decent speed my concern would be that you would really have trouble not having an unplayable left miss.  Obviously I don’t know this, but it would be a worry.  What is your regular ball fight and if you have a consistent miss what is it?
It seems to me that you might be a really good candidate for game improvement irons, even though your scores would make more of a players club the normal choice.  Even though the lofts are very strong, from a flight perspective I’ve seen very high ball flights, from very strong lofted irons.  I’ve got some epic forged long irons in the bag and they are very high hitting.  The lofts on many of them may not be to your liking as they are likely to be very long but they will definitely go high.

 

If I were you I would consider a combo set using game improvement irons starting at 8 iron or so.  Look at the lofts more than the number stamped on the bottom if you decide to go that route.  For instance I have two 7 irons in my bag right now.  The gapping works out really well.  Most guys probably could not handle seeing two 7 clubs with a 7 stamped on the bottom in their bag and a 6 iron as their “5” iron.  However the club stamped 6 iron is 24 degrees of loft which is a really strong 5 iron, and it goes much higher than any players club in a similar loft.  If you are okay with theoretically having a bunch of hybrids, perhaps this sort of thing will not bother you (doesn’t bother me one bit).  
anyways, just something to think about.  You may be able to get some height with technology and still have a little extra control with your short irons.  Or you may find you have plenty of control with something like epic forged or ping g700 irons.  Sub 70 has some really nice priced irons and a combo set of 699’s/699 pros might work real well at a discounted price.  Or maybe hybrids won’t go left for you and that is a perfect solution.

Edited by jomatty
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I would suggest getting fitted. With that swing speed and scoring in the 70s there is definitely a disconnect between your swing and the clubs you’re swinging.  I don’t think a hybrid is going to contribute more to your game than a proper fitting. 

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Posted (edited)

Weird how all the PGA pros hit perfectly straight bombs with their hybrids, the same clubs that wrx'ers say only go left.   Maybe we just need to learn to hit hybrids.

 

I used to be a 3 headcover, 3w to 3i kind of guy, but as my golf ego has shrunken, so has my handicap as I've gone to 4w, 3h, 4h.  I never thought 180-210 would be reasonably reliable distances for me, but here we are.  

 

If you like your titleist stuff, check out the 818h2, it has a nice classic/smaller look and is pretty cheap now. If you like to build clubs the Maltby KE4 tour head is a nice hybrid too for a non-adjustable value proposition 

Edited by mcounci2
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move to Scotland where your game will work great on the windy links.

 

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I really think this choice comes to launch conditions.  A hybrid will launch much higher given the cg.  If your launch on a similarly lofted iron is high enough and can hold greens then you’ve got more options.  There are some additional options such as a GI iron with a low and back cg, this might be the compromise between the two if you just don’t prefer the look of a hybrid.  Good luck with your game!!

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I never really understood the "hybrids go left" thing. I have a U500, and I can hit that thing left of the planet, just like any other club that's not a driver or a putter. At the end of the day, your card doesn't care about your ego, just ask Webb Simpson holding that US Open trophy that we'd all kill for. Hybrido down to the 7-iron? Go for it. I don't think anyone will deny that hybrids let you get away with WAY more than a driving iron, and if you want that forgiveness down to the middle of your set, give'r!

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11 hours ago, mookio said:

114 ss I feel like you spin the piss out of a 5,6 and 7h. Might be wrong though

I'm 118 so I'm not that far off.  Most guys that have high ss will spin the ball quite a bit unless they are low launch and spin guys to begin with. 

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You can try most of the newest hottest hybrids out for $25 on Global Golf.  I tried the Ping G425 on their Utry and ended up with 3 of them.  They are simply push button easy to hit high and straight.  They are not for everyone I know.  I simply don’t have the game anymore to hit lower irons.  Golf is so much more fun with these clubs.  But I’ve always thought hybrids are a love \ hate thing.  I’m in the love camp.  YMMV

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Posted (edited)

I just got my first hybrid (sim 2 - 4 (22 degree) on Friday morning. Practiced with it Friday afternoon and played a tournament with it Saturday morning. Hit it probably six or so times during the tournament and won closest to the pin award on 185 yard par 3 16th. Hit a high cut. Throughout the round was able to hit it straight, high, low, hook it under a tree and a the beloved high cut.

 

when I got home I called the shop and ordered the 5. Only reason I haven’t ordered the six yet is they are going to have to order from TM and it will take a while to get out together. I’m holding out hope they can find one at another location sooner.

 

I was anti hybrid until recently and now it’s my favorite club, soon to be clubs. I had all those hook fears due to previous experiences over about 8 years ago.

 

bottom line is your swing and ability changes. Give it a try you may love it.

 

side not: I really had my eye on the new apex but the sim2 kicked its butt on the LM

Edited by CCTxGolf
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Posted (edited)

I played in a two man scramble and one of the gents in the other twosome had the lowest ball flight I've ever seen. It was an early season scramble, 32 degrees drizzling and windy. Dude hit everything 3 iron trajectory, quite effective in that weather. Really freaky to see a 40 ft. trajectory on a full 130 yard PW skip and stop. It was fascinating to watch his homemade swing produce good shots line drive after line drive.

 

Anywho, he didn't carry any stinking hybrids.

 

 

 

Edited by tannyhoban
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Demo a sub70 hybrid... the 939x is great. They just established a store in Canada, I believe... affordable and a great club... the 699 utility is also worth a look... 

 

if you just like practicing, get a hybrid and learn how to hit it... maybe it will help you elsewhere.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/14/2021 at 9:41 PM, jetandollie said:

I am not entirely sure what conclusion I am hoping to reach with this, but, based on my "enjoy practice more than playing" thread and how much interest it got, perhaps others here are in a similar mindset. 

 

A bit about me and my game...

 

I played an obnoxious amount of golf between age 6 and 18. I am in Canada, so there is no college system here - nor could I ever afford to go even if I wanted. Life took me to the Dominican Republic and Colombia between age 18 and 27. I did not touch a club for nine years due to where I was and what I was doing - and an extreme lack of accessible courses. Back in Canada now, I got back into it last summer when my job shut down and the addiction is right back to where it was. Played 80 rounds last year and have punched in 15 already this year. The only difference for me now vs growing up is that I have no desire to play competitively. Hell, I don't even keep score half of the rounds anymore. I enjoy the walk, I enjoy practicing, I enjoy striking the ball well and plotting around a course. I just no longer have the energy to get mad, upset or frustrated about shots - or chase 325 yard drives. I just want to get to the practice green or course and just relax and hit great shots. 

 

Before I stopped playing (2009), I had the Titleist CB 695's. Saved all winter to get them one year. Played them 3-PW. I feel like hybrids were not a huge thing then - I could be wrong. We did not have a golf shop anywhere near by and aside from a guy at the course having a TM rescue, I just do not remember seeing them much. Now of course, they are all over from 2i-7i. 

 

I used to take pride in hitting my 2 driving iron, 3i and 4i. Loved them to death. Naturally, I figured I would get back to where I left off and keep going. But it is no longer there. I am much more inconsistent with ball striking than I ever remember being and there is a gap between how good I remember being (in my head) and how good I actually am. Youtube videos (also new to me vs when I used to play and NEVER thought about instruction) are not helping either. 

 

The one thing that has held over from youth to adulthood and this restart has been my brutally low ball flight. My driver swing speed is 114 comfortably. I certainly do not drop off with my irons. Talking with friends and remembering back, we always just played the game keeping the ball extremely low. I do not hold greens with any club stronger than 38*, I never remember spinning a ball back - ever - on any green with any shot. Greenside play is exclusively bump and runs with 7i or 8i, rarely does a wedge come out ever. I always play to land short and run it up or let it release to the hole. It has not stopped me from scoring as I broke par when I was younger and now after a year back am in the 70's at 6,600 yards. For me it just is what it is. 

 

With all of that said, I am incredibly intrigued by hybrids. But not just long irons. I am looking at the Ping G425's 4,5,6 and 7 hybrid. I am way out the golf marketing game and have a lot to catch up in terms of buzz words and such, but what I have noticed is EVERYTHING tends to be focused on handicap and sometimes swing speed. 

 

"This club is great for high handicappers"

"Low handicappers should only play these clubs"

"Game improvement - the hell does that mean?"

"High swing speed only!"

 

When it comes to hybrids, it seems any review or discussion is centred around...

 

"I don't like them because they go left"

"I am a senior so I love them and they help me hit it higher"

"It sat closed so I do not like it"

"I would love to play them, but I just can't have 8 head covers in my bag"

 

There are comparison videos looking at hybrid vs long iron/wood, but very little about dispersion and consistency of hybrids vs irons - especially for low ball flight players. I could not give two s***'s about ego or what people think of my bag. I will do my own thing and enjoy it. But I am trying to figure out a downside - as an extremely low ball hitter - of loading up on hybrids and taking advantage of height and spin. 

 

I think the situation is somewhat unique to me because it is really around...

 

Can I be more consistent both with well struck contact and being able to land it on greens and hold the green using hybrids - despite the potential loss of control due to height and variables that brings in

 

vs.

 

Can I be more consistent with continuing to rely running the ball up and having sporadic contact - despite having repeatable distance control and tighter dispersion (I think?) with irons

 

If hybrids are so much easier to hit and elevate am I a prime candidate for using several of them? 

 

I don't know, I guess I am just confused and at worst this was just a terrible obscenely long worded question that felt good to type out and get out of my head. But maybe someone can relate and have answers. 

 

Rant over. 

 

My advice.   - As a person who’s been down every rabbit hole on earth.  - 

 

 

Try it and see for yourself.  
 

 

hybrids aren’t left biased.  I’ve played down to a 4 before ( g410). Snd dodnt spin them too much. You’re going to fit into a stout s or an x shaft with that speed.  Depending on your transition. And preference of flight.    Checkout the g410 for a great flat lie angle hybrid. Deep face and pleasing sound.  

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Couple of random thoughts:

1. At 114 mph swing speed you should have no problem hitting the ball in the air so you’re likely really delofting irons as another poster said. 
 

2. I love my two hybrids (20 and 23 degrees) to replace my 3i and 4i but the feeling of hitting a pure mid iron is just not replaceable with a hybrid which feel more like hitting fairway woods. 
 

3. Following up on #2, the purest in you “just enjoying practicing and walking around the course hitting shots” would likely not enjoy as much having a bag full of hybrids. 
 

4. As others have said, find a 3hybrid in the 20/21 degree range and give it a whirl and see what you think. Go from there up and down as needed…

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What's your gapping look like? 

 

I have a standard 3 wood, carry around 235, and a Cobra Utility 3I, which carries around 215.

 

My 4 iron goes about 190-195...but not much drop to my 5 iron, a little over 185.

 

I've decided to ditch the 4 iron and pick up a 4 hybrid. Should be more of a 200ish club after I get it adjusted (Apex 21 adjustable hybrid).

 

Gives me something to hit out of the rough or off the fairway on longer holes. And smooths out the gapping too. 

King F9 10.5, Hzrdus Smoke Black 60g stiff

King SZ 3 Wood @ 16, Hzrdus Smoke Yellow 70g stiff

King Utility Iron @ 20.5, Tour AD DI Hybrid 105X

Callaway Apex Pro 2019 Double Dot Tour Issue 4-PW, KBS Tour 120

Tommy Armour VCG 50/8, 56/12, 60/8, S200

Ping Craz-E

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Hybrids are great clubs to have.  What has helped me is going shorter and heavier with the hybrid shaft.  I've used a s300 in my 23* in the past, and dispersion has been really good with that.  With the 19* hybrids, I have found shafts in the 100g range work best for me as well.  

 

I personally have found that playing them in the same spot as an iron, and hitting them like an iron gives me the best results.  Anytime I've tried sweeping them, it's never good.  It's either a hook, or I come out of it, and it's think and a weak ball flight to the right.  

WITB
Driver: 10.5* SIM2 set 1 click lower- Attas Elements Earth 7f4 or Diamana Whiteboard 70s

Fairway: Cobra Radspeed Tour 5w turned down to 16.5* (Shaft TBD, but Motore F1 is solid)

Hybrids: 19* Adams Super Hybrid LS XTD Speeder Tour Spec 9.8 Stiff, 23* Adams Pro DGS300
Irons:  21* Wilson Staff Utility Speeder Tour Spec 9.8 stiff, 5-PW Ben Hoga PTx Pro:  All shafted with Modus 125s
Wedges: Cleveland Zipcore Wedges (All Raw with Modus 125 Wedge shafts) 48* bent to 49*, 52* Mid bent to 53*, 56* Mid bent to 58*. 

Putter: White Hot OG 7s or Kingston KP1 Carbon Oil Can Finish

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