Putts From The Fringe

[AMLemus]

Dumb statistics tracking question:

 

Do putts from the fringe or rough near the green count as regular putts or are they regarded as chips or shots from off the green (a normal stroke)? Thanks everyone!

[ThinkingPlus]

Chips

[davep043]

33 minutes ago, AMLemus said:

Dumb statistics tracking question:

 

Do putts from the fringe or rough near the green count as regular putts or are they regarded as chips or shots from off the green (a normal stroke)? Thanks everyone!

For most normal tracking, putts are only from the putting green.  However, if you're only using stats to evaluate your own game, you can make whatever decision gives you the best value.  If you putt over 2 inches of closely mown fairway, I'd probably want to evaluate that as a putt.  If for some reason you choose to use the putter from the rough, I'd probably count that as a chip.  If you're putting it from 10 feet off the green, I'd count it as a chip.  Its your data, for your use, you get to make the decisions.  

[nsxguy]

58 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Chips

 

Fish ?

[2bGood]

1 hour ago, davep043 said:

For most normal tracking, putts are only from the putting green.  However, if you're only using stats to evaluate your own game, you can make whatever decision gives you the best value.  If you putt over 2 inches of closely mown fairway, I'd probably want to evaluate that as a putt.  If for some reason you choose to use the putter from the rough, I'd probably count that as a chip.  If you're putting it from 10 feet off the green, I'd count it as a chip.  Its your data, for your use, you get to make the decisions.  

This is it. Stats are only for our own personal use, decide what make sense for you. I have not tracked stats for a long time, but many times tracked a "GIR" for a shot placed where I wanted it, even off the green and likewise not counted a ball hit poorly that ended up on the green far away from my target. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2021 by 2bGood

[jvincent]

1 hour ago, AMLemus said:

Dumb statistics tracking question:

 

Do putts from the fringe or rough near the green count as regular putts or are they regarded as chips or shots from off the green (a normal stroke)? Thanks everyone!

As others have said, do what you want since it's your stat.

 

Interesting note, for PGA tour stats if they putt a ball off the green every stroke after the initial putt, even if it's off the green and they use a wedge, counts as a putt.

[2bGood]

32 minutes ago, jvincent said:

As others have said, do what you want since it's your stat.

 

Interesting note, for PGA tour stats if they putt a ball off the green every stroke after the initial putt, even if it's off the green and they use a wedge, counts as a putt.

Had to read that twice - but makes sense. 

 

If they are putting on the green and the ball rolls off the green, the next shot is still considered a putt. 

[Shilgy]

42 minutes ago, 2bGood said:

Had to read that twice - but makes sense. 

 

If they are putting on the green and the ball rolls off the green, the next shot is still considered a putt. 

All I know is if someone in my group putts from the green and it rolls off it they owe everyone in the group a beverage.😀

[phil75070]

1 hour ago, jvincent said:

As others have said, do what you want since it's your stat.

 

Interesting note, for PGA tour stats if they putt a ball off the green every stroke after the initial putt, even if it's off the green and they use a wedge, counts as a putt.

Also, let's say you chip a ball with one of your wedges and it stops on the lip. Tap it in with the wedge and it is still considered a putt. Break your putter and putt with another club and those are still considered putts. So it isn't so much the club that is used that makes it a putt or a chip, but the place the shot takes place from with that PGA Tour stat mentioned the notable exception.

 

I might add that any stat capturing unit I have used, Game Golf, Game Pad and now Shot Scope count any shot with the putter from off the green in the short game stats - as a chip not a putt.

 

Stats are for one's own benefit so use them in a way that makes the most sense for you. 

[trilerian]

1 hour ago, Shilgy said:

All I know is if someone in my group putts from the green and it rolls off it they owe everyone in the group a beverage.😀

 

There are a couple of greens at one of the courses I play frequently, that with front flags this happens quite often.  I have attempted putts that went up and around the hole to come back down and roll off the green and down into the bunker.  

 

@OP

 

Any shot with a putter from the fringe I consider a putt.  From the fairway and rough it is a chip.  It is extremely rare for me to see someone use something other than a putter from the fringe.  So as the primary tool for balls on the fringe is the putter, and the primary job of a putter is to putt with, I say there are putts.  Yes, it does inflate your GIR, but I think counting them as chips makes your putts per round look better than it should.  

 

In the end, choose your own poison. 

[North Butte]

The definition of any statistic depends on the use to which you intend to put it. How are you going to interpret your "number of putts"? Ask yourself whether a putt from the fringe counting as another "putt" will lead to an incorrect interpretation or not. And ask yourself whether a putt from the fringe counting as a "chip" will lead to an incorrect interpretation or not. 

 

If you want to know how good you are at chipping per se (i.e. hitting short shots with an iron or wedge from around the green) then you probably ought to NOT count putts from the fringe as "chips". They aren't the type of stroke you're trying to evaluate. 

 

If you want to know how good your putting stroke is, you probably ought to count putts from the fringe as "putts" because they're part of what you use your putting stroke for. 

 

If you just are going to figure up "putts per round" or some other vague and useless counting stat, then do it either way it won't matter because you're not actually evaluating anything. 

Edited June 2, 2021 by North Butte

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, North Butte said:

If you want to know how good you are at chipping per se (i.e. hitting short shots with an iron or wedge from around the green) then you probably ought to count putts from the fringe as "chips". They aren't the type of stroke you're trying to evaluate. 

 

 

I did not quite catch the logic there. I guess you meant to write 'ought NOT to count' ?

[North Butte]

10 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

I did not quite catch the logic there. I guess you meant to write 'ought NOT to count' ?

Your correction is correct. 😃

 

So I corrected it, thanks. 

[596]

In our group if you putt anywhere from off the green or fringe its a one stroke penalty!!  Not really counted but that's what we always say.  One of our group putts sometimes from as far as 20 yards off the green on the approach.  

[davep043]

23 minutes ago, 596 said:

In our group if you putt anywhere from off the green or fringe its a one stroke penalty!!  Not really counted but that's what we always say.  One of our group putts sometimes from as far as 20 yards off the green on the approach.  

I've putted from 60 yards out at least once.  I'd never count that as a "putt" in any kind of statistic for my own use.

[Mr. Bean]

25 minutes ago, 596 said:

In our group if you putt anywhere from off the green or fringe its a one stroke penalty!!  Not really counted but that's what we always say.  One of our group putts sometimes from as far as 20 yards off the green on the approach.  

 

But are you allowed to putt with an iron or a wood?

[596]

Putt with anything other then a putter and it's no penalty.  He calls his putter a chipper in these cases 😂

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, Jbegz12 said:

putts

 

Not on PGA Tour.

 

[2bGood]

6 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Not on PGA Tour.

 

Sorry, I missed the part where the OP is on Tour. 😉

[Mr. Bean]

5 hours ago, 2bGood said:

Sorry, I missed the part where the OP is on Tour. 😉

 

Then again he did not say he is not 😎

[smashdn]

On 5/17/2021 at 9:45 AM, jvincent said:

As others have said, do what you want since it's your stat.

 

Interesting note, for PGA tour stats if they putt a ball off the green every stroke after the initial putt, even if it's off the green and they use a wedge, counts as a putt.

Curious how you would approach a scenario where the ball is putted into a hazard and a penalty is assessed.  How do you count the penalty putt for distance stats I wonder?

[jvincent]

4 minutes ago, smashdn said:

Curious how you would approach a scenario where the ball is putted into a hazard and a penalty is assessed.  How do you count the penalty putt for distance stats I wonder?

I think at that point the Shotlink computer catches fire.

[smashdn]

23 minutes ago, jvincent said:

I think at that point the Shotlink computer catches fire.

 

Charles Howell I think he who I was thinking of at Augusta.  ( I don't think they even use shotlink there but perhaps some other iteration.)

 

Anyhow, he putted into the water and had to drop and re-putt.  So he technically had a penalty putt I guess.

[LeoLeo99]

Personally, I count putts from the fringe as putts and as a GIR.  Otherwise it makes my putting and scrambling stats look better than they are and my irons look worse than they are.  

[RCGA]

On 6/4/2021 at 3:37 PM, LeoLeo99 said:

Personally, I count putts from the fringe as putts and as a GIR.  Otherwise it makes my putting and scrambling stats look better than they are and my irons look worse than they are.  

 

Same. 

 

My course has small greens and tucked pins. It's no uncommon for me to hit a "good" iron shot and "miss" the green but have a 10ft putt for birdie from the fringe. To me, that's more of a GIR than being technically on the green with a 60ft putt 

[rexroh]

If I recall a putt had to be on the green. Previous rules banned putting between legs (on the green) but it was legal off the green.  New rules ban playing any shot between the legs except to avoid standing on someone’s line. 

[davep043]

On 6/8/2021 at 2:33 AM, rexroh said:

If I recall a putt had to be on the green. Previous rules banned putting between legs (on the green) but it was legal off the green.  New rules ban playing any shot between the legs except to avoid standing on someone’s line. 

I'm wondering what the rules around croquet-style putting have to do with putting statistics.  Not trying to cause trouble, just wondering if there's something I'm missing here.

[rexroh]

1 hour ago, davep043 said:

I'm wondering what the rules around croquet-style putting have to do with putting statistics.  Not trying to cause trouble, just wondering if there's something I'm missing here.

Just trying to add to the idea that a putt is made on the green.  It is not a putt if off the green.  There was a distinction in previous rules if I remember correctly.  What I was saying that a certain style of putting on the green was illegal but off the green it was not as it was not considered putting.  Hence putting stats should be strokes made from the green.

However as long as one is consistent either way stats will then show progress.

[davep043]

1 minute ago, rexroh said:

However as long as one is consistent either way stats will then show progress.

This is my advice to anyone, if you're only using the stats to evaluate your own game, you should do it in the way that brings the most value to you.  

 

I'm not sure there's ever been a distinction or definition in the Rules over what a "putt" is.  There are different rules regarding strokes made from the putting green, as opposed to strokes from other areas of the course.  But you can use a putter from other areas of the course, and you can use clubs other than your putter for strokes on the putting green.  

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

Last time I checked. It was called a Texas wedge. So no it wouldn’t count as a putt.