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When to go into lag mode for putting?


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38 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

 

I entirely agree that the 3 foot circle is not really a good goal. For a start, 3 feet away from your target from 15 feet is not a very good putt. 3 feet away from 80 feet is really good. I'm reading OP's question as where should your target change from past the hole to on top of the hole. And I think it's right around where you hit around 3 feet of accuracy. 10% error level is a pretty good estimate of a "decent" player's range of error. That means from 100 yards you shouldn't finish more than 30 feet from your target (note that the majority of shots you'd hope would end up well inside that). From 30 feet that means 3 feet of error, so for a decent player 30 feet is around the point where you should be trying to hit it dead weight. Die it in the hole if you like. That's on the basis that three feet is around the point where "should hole it almost all the time" starts to move to "could miss it". If your putting skill level is bad, you might have a 20% margin of error, in which case, 3 feet is as close as you can reliably hit it from 15 feet away. Combine that with 18 inches being where you move from should hole it to could miss it and that's where you start talking about optimal strategy being hitting it dead weight from 10 feet away. 

I would say this is the scenario where you use the SG method to shape your practice routine vs employ on course strategy. I agree that ~30ft is around that area where your strategy changes (as do the statistics).

 

The OP is essentially saying 3-putt avoidance strategy should be employed for very short putts if you a really bad putter. If you need die in speed for 10-15ft putts, it's really not a strategy issue, its a skill issue and you should take the time to improve your putting.  Statistically speaking, putting is where pros and decent ams are actually closest in skill , it's also where rapid improvement is very easily attainable if you are really bad at it. Getting fit/getting a putting lesson can have very immediate/impactful returns.

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1 hour ago, Luv2kruz said:

Nobody is ignoring break. Just prioritzing distance control. 

 

I think that's an issue as well, though.

 

Let's say you're facing a breaking 30 foot putt.

 

You know that if you focus REALLY hard on prioritizing distance control, you're reasonably certain you can finish +/- 3 feet distance. 

 

Let's say that if you give equal weight to line, you can finish no more than 3' left or right of the cup. 

 

Well put the two together--if you finish 3' short AND 3' right, or 3' long AND 3' left, you're facing a putt of about 4'4" (thanks, Pythagoras!). Now you're outside your 3' circle. 

 

If you focus the bulk of your priority on distance control and don't prioritize the line very much, what does it do to your left-right dispersion? 4' left or right of the cup? Now your worst case is a 5' putt. If your worst dispersion on line is 6 feet left or right of the cup? Your worst case is a putt about 6'8" long. 

 

IMHO you should be giving equal weight to break and distance control. Do your best at both, because not giving 100% effort on break when you're doing so with distance is worse than 100% effort on both. 

 

Or, to put it more succinctly, try to make the putt. 

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7 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

I think that's an issue as well, though.

 

Let's say you're facing a breaking 30 foot putt.

 

You know that if you focus REALLY hard on prioritizing distance control, you're reasonably certain you can finish +/- 3 feet distance. 

 

Let's say that if you give equal weight to line, you can finish no more than 3' left or right of the cup. 

 

Well put the two together--if you finish 3' short AND 3' right, or 3' long AND 3' left, you're facing a putt of about 4'4" (thanks, Pythagoras!). Now you're outside your 3' circle. 

 

If you focus the bulk of your priority on distance control and don't prioritize the line very much, what does it do to your left-right dispersion? 4' left or right of the cup? Now your worst case is a 5' putt. If your worst dispersion on line is 6 feet left or right of the cup? Your worst case is a putt about 6'8" long. 

 

IMHO you should be giving equal weight to break and distance control. Do your best at both, because not giving 100% effort on break when you're doing so with distance is worse than 100% effort on both. 

 

Or, to put it more succinctly, try to make the putt. 

Another article that doesn't agree with this approach

 

https://www.golfwrx.com/547546/line-vs-speed-whats-really-more-important-in-putting/

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20 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

I think that's an issue as well, though.

 

Let's say you're facing a breaking 30 foot putt.

 

You know that if you focus REALLY hard on prioritizing distance control, you're reasonably certain you can finish +/- 3 feet distance. 

 

Let's say that if you give equal weight to line, you can finish no more than 3' left or right of the cup. 

 

Well put the two together--if you finish 3' short AND 3' right, or 3' long AND 3' left, you're facing a putt of about 4'4" (thanks, Pythagoras!). Now you're outside your 3' circle. 

 

If you focus the bulk of your priority on distance control and don't prioritize the line very much, what does it do to your left-right dispersion? 4' left or right of the cup? Now your worst case is a 5' putt. If your worst dispersion on line is 6 feet left or right of the cup? Your worst case is a putt about 6'8" long. 

 

IMHO you should be giving equal weight to break and distance control. Do your best at both, because not giving 100% effort on break when you're doing so with distance is worse than 100% effort on both. 

 

Or, to put it more succinctly, try to make the putt. 

Doesn't work that way unless it's a perfectly flat green When you miss low you miss farther away than missing high

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16 minutes ago, Luv2kruz said:

Another article that doesn't agree with this approach

 

https://www.golfwrx.com/547546/line-vs-speed-whats-really-more-important-in-putting/

What this assumes is that the high handicap player can make a 3-4 footer to avoid the 3 putt.  The problem is, high handicappers who have poor distance control have it because of inconsistency in their stroke.  You need to look at WHY the high handicap player 3 putts from 20 feet, is it because they hit it 6 feet past or is it because they stink at 3 foot putts?  How many times do they 2 putt from inside 10 feet....that's a better metric to improve, and it takes care of your lag problem, (Assuming the problem is hitting it close enough and not sucking at 3-4 footers).  I mean, your one chart suggests that high handicappers should lag it close starting from 6 feet so..... (you see what I mean, the high handicapper isn't hitting his 6 footer 6 feet past the hole).  He isn't three putting between 6-15 feet because he has a problem with lag, he is doing it because he sucks at short putts.  Lagging it close as a measure of three putt avoidance ONLY works if you make the majority of your putts from 3-4 feet.  Most high handicappers don't even practice these, they drop a sleeve of balls on the green before their round from 15 feet, miss all three, move on to another 15 foot hole, miss all three again and go to the tee never having made a putt.

 

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7 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

I think that's an issue as well, though.

 

Let's say you're facing a breaking 30 foot putt.

 

You know that if you focus REALLY hard on prioritizing distance control, you're reasonably certain you can finish +/- 3 feet distance. 

 

Let's say that if you give equal weight to line, you can finish no more than 3' left or right of the cup. 

 

Well put the two together--if you finish 3' short AND 3' right, or 3' long AND 3' left, you're facing a putt of about 4'4" (thanks, Pythagoras!). Now you're outside your 3' circle. 

 

If you focus the bulk of your priority on distance control and don't prioritize the line very much, what does it do to your left-right dispersion? 4' left or right of the cup? Now your worst case is a 5' putt. If your worst dispersion on line is 6 feet left or right of the cup? Your worst case is a putt about 6'8" long. 

 

IMHO you should be giving equal weight to break and distance control. Do your best at both, because not giving 100% effort on break when you're doing so with distance is worse than 100% effort on both. 

 

Or, to put it more succinctly, try to make the putt. 

 

Unless your definition of "try to make the putt" is hit it 18" by the hole. If you're trying to do that, you're necessarily going to have to use a straighter line. If you hit it hard and low, that's how it gets away from you big time. I'd also say big breaking putts are even more important to play dead weight. And err on the high side.

 

Incidentally, most people are much better at getting it started on line than they are on speed. 3 feet wide from 30 feet (unless it's a really big break) is a much less frequent occurrence than 3 feet long or short. The choices are more likely between 3' short to 3' long and 18" either side of the cup if you focus on both. If you spend less time worrying about your line, maybe it's 2 feet either side. If you spend less time worrying about speed, maybe it's 5' short to 5' long. People frequently say they got so focused on the line they forgot about speed. I don't ever recall anyone saying that they focused so hard on the speed they forgot to worry about the line. 

 

That means to me that it's more important on a 30 foot putt to worry about speed. Incidentally, Scott Fawcett would I think say that is why aimpoint express works. Because it gives you a decent idea of the line, but not perfect. The difference between one and two fingers on a 30 foot putt is significant relative to the size of the hole. Much more important to get the speed right. 

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2 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

 

Unless your definition of "try to make the putt" is hit it 18" by the hole. If you're trying to do that, you're necessarily going to have to use a straighter line. If you hit it hard and low, that's how it gets away from you big time. I'd also say big breaking putts are even more important to play dead weight. And err on the high side.

 

Incidentally, most people are much better at getting it started on line than they are on speed. 3 feet wide from 30 feet (unless it's a really big break) is a much less frequent occurrence than 3 feet long or short. The choices are more likely between 3' short to 3' long and 18" either side of the cup if you focus on both. If you spend less time worrying about your line, maybe it's 2 feet either side. If you spend less time worrying about speed, maybe it's 5' short to 5' long. People frequently say they got so focused on the line they forgot about speed. I don't ever recall anyone saying that they focused so hard on the speed they forgot to worry about the line. 

 

That means to me that it's more important on a 30 foot putt to worry about speed. Incidentally, Scott Fawcett would I think say that is why aimpoint express works. Because it gives you a decent idea of the line, but not perfect. The difference between one and two fingers on a 30 foot putt is significant relative to the size of the hole. Much more important to get the speed right. 

I'll take it further.  I think the BEST putters pick a line, set up to it and react.  They let their brain determine the correct speed for the line they chose.  It's why some die over the lip and others slam into the back.  I'm telling all of you, it's amazing what your brain is capable of it you get out of it's damn way!

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5 minutes ago, Luv2kruz said:

Another article that doesn't agree with this approach

 

https://www.golfwrx.com/547546/line-vs-speed-whats-really-more-important-in-putting/

 

Respectfully, I don't think that article disagrees with what I said at all. 

 

I'm speaking to intent and effort--to making sure that you approach every putt with the INTENT to hit the hole rather than the INTENT to get it close. 

 

Every putt is a combination of read and strike. 

 

If you're facing a 30 foot putt and you're 1-2 degrees off on the intended start line, AND you read the break perfectly, you'll be about 1 foot left/right of target. If you get your distance control correct, you're still in great shape with that putt. To be within 2" of center cup, the maximum necessary to go in, your face control on your putter has to be within about 1/3 degree left/right of intended line, and that's a remarkable amount of control.  

 

But reading break isn't automatic. How much dispersion on putts is not caused by strike, but caused by read?

 

If you're great at reading break (most high caps aren't), on a 30 foot breaking putt what does that give you... A dispersion of +/- another 1 feet? 

 

If you slack off on reading the break because you're prioritizing speed control, what are the odds that you add another foot of dispersion to your outcome? 

 

+/- up to 2 degrees face control plus +/- up to 2 feet of misread break and pretty soon your dispersion starts adding up. 

 

On a 30 foot putt I agree that most golfers cannot reasonably control the face enough to reliably make that putt, even on a perfectly level green with zero break. But we don't play perfectly level greens with zero break, so I would say golfers should prioritize reading the green for line and speed with equal weights.

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14 minutes ago, DShepley said:

I'll take it further.  I think the BEST putters pick a line, set up to it and react.  They let their brain determine the correct speed for the line they chose.  It's why some die over the lip and others slam into the back.  I'm telling all of you, it's amazing what your brain is capable of it you get out of it's damn way!

I consider myself a pretty decent putter and this my approach. I segment my putting routine such that I am only thinking of one thing over the ball. I pick my line, use a line on the ball to align to it, such that when I am over the ball all I am thinking about is speed. If you are contemplating line and speed while over the ball, I can't see that being a good thing. Not only in terms of make percentage, but also in terms of judging the outcome of a putt for the next one. Most bad putters are terrible at speed control because they don't roll the ball pure, so they can never self diagnose if they mishit a putt, picked a bad line, or just hit it too hard/soft, which only further inhibits learning good speed control.

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11 minutes ago, DShepley said:

I'll take it further.  I think the BEST putters pick a line, set up to it and react.  They let their brain determine the correct speed for the line they chose.  It's why some die over the lip and others slam into the back.  I'm telling all of you, it's amazing what your brain is capable of it you get out of it's damn way!

 

I think if they're doing that they're subconsciously factoring in speed when they pick their line. I suspect a lot of people who did that would get over it, subconsciously realize that they haven't picked a wide enough line and then either hit it really hard or subconsciously push or pull the putt to increase the line. I suspect that most really good putters do a bit of both. They'll pick a line based on how they want the ball to be moving at the hole (i.e. very slowly or with a little bit of speed), then forget about the speed part. Aim where they picked, take a look and then do the react thing, but I'd be certain that they know the speed the putt will be going at the hole when they pick their line. Otherwise they'd pick not the right line. I know if you look at the aimline that they have on the tv sometimes, the window is fairly wide for starting line for some putts, based on speed.

 

Have you seen Monte's voodoo putting thing?

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Just food for thought (and no deep analysis into this, so take it with a grain of salt)…

 

Might we be looking at this all wrong when asking how does the high capper reduces his 3putt occurrence?

·         Let’s look at Tour data from where the breakeven point is; ok it’s 32 feet…

·         Let’s see from where they’re automatic; got it, 3 feet

·         Let’s combine these two (without looking at compound effects) and draw a conclusion that high capper needs to get those longer putts to a 3 feet circle – and they’ll be golden, bu-bye 3 putts!

 

When looking at the average strokes from different distances and different skill levels, we see that:

·         Tour pros make as many putts from 10 feet as high cappers do from 3 feet (which hovers at around 40%!)… and we can easily see that our previous conclusion is flawed; high cappers aren’t making these 3-4 footer nearly as much as pros are -> they aren’t 3putts free if they get those long ones to that 3 feet circle

·         Same can be said with Tour pros from 6 feet and single capper from 3 feet;

·         Same can be said with Tour pros from 20 feet and high capper from 6 feet!

 

The first bullet is astonishing, and gives the Tour pros a much wider radius to convert the long ones into 2putts…

 

So, shouldn’t the focus be, to help high cappers reduce the 3putt occurrence, to practice the hell from 3-5-10 feet and try and get as good from this range as Tour pros… and you’ll solve your lag putting issues as a byproduct : with obviously a better putting stroke, distance control, line reading – compound effects…

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3 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

 

I think if they're doing that they're subconsciously factoring in speed when they pick their line. I suspect a lot of people who did that would get over it, subconsciously realize that they haven't picked a wide enough line and then either hit it really hard or subconsciously push or pull the putt to increase the line. I suspect that most really good putters do a bit of both. They'll pick a line based on how they want the ball to be moving at the hole (i.e. very slowly or with a little bit of speed), then forget about the speed part. Aim where they picked, take a look and then do the react thing, but I'd be certain that they know the speed the putt will be going at the hole when they pick their line. Otherwise they'd pick not the right line. I know if you look at the aimline that they have on the tv sometimes, the window is fairly wide for starting line for some putts, based on speed.

 

Have you seen Monte's voodoo putting thing?

I haven't seen Monte's thing no but I'll check it out.  The reaction to a line is something I learned from reading Rotella.  I wasn't a good putter and learned to be one.  The first thing I did was learn to develop a stroke that hits short putts on my line.  The second thing I did was start reading putts from the hole backwards, started paying attention to other people's ball when it got to the hole to confirm my read, and become much more reactionary.  I pick a line that I think the ball needs to roll on to make it into the hole, speed is factored into this line.  Next I pick an intermediate target close to my ball that would allow my ball to get to the apex of the break.  I then line my putter up to the intermediate target, take my stance, look to the hole and when my gaze returns to the ball, I react.  I also rarely practice long putts and spend the majority of my time running the circle drill inside 5 feet,...confidence is built by seeing yourself fill the hole up, not by missing putts, (Rotella).  Another thing to mention, is that most amateurs under-read break because they line up to the apex of the putt not realizing that there is break between their ball and the apex,...you have to pick a line that allows your ball to roll over the apex point.

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8 minutes ago, MtlJayMan said:

Just food for thought (and no deep analysis into this, so take it with a grain of salt)…

 

Might we be looking at this all wrong when asking how does the high capper reduces his 3putt occurrence?

·         Let’s look at Tour data from where the breakeven point is; ok it’s 32 feet…

·         Let’s see from where they’re automatic; got it, 3 feet

·         Let’s combine these two (without looking at compound effects) and draw a conclusion that high capper needs to get those longer putts to a 3 feet circle – and they’ll be golden, bu-bye 3 putts!

 

When looking at the average strokes from different distances and different skill levels, we see that:

·         Tour pros make as many putts from 10 feet as high cappers do from 3 feet (which hovers at around 40%!)… and we can easily see that our previous conclusion is flawed; high cappers aren’t making these 3-4 footer nearly as much as pros are -> they aren’t 3putts free if they get those long ones to that 3 feet circle

·         Same can be said with Tour pros from 6 feet and single capper from 3 feet;

·         Same can be said with Tour pros from 20 feet and high capper from 6 feet!

 

The first bullet is astonishing, and gives the Tour pros a much wider radius to convert the long ones into 2putts…

 

So, shouldn’t the focus be, to help high cappers reduce the 3putt occurrence, to practice the hell from 3-5-10 feet and try and get as good from this range as Tour pros… and you’ll solve your lag putting issues as a byproduct : with obviously a better putting stroke, distance control, line reading – compound effects…

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Any putt over 20-25 feet, I'm trying to get within 2 feet. Inside 20 feet, I'm trying to make it. Obviously, I try and make every putt but I'm realistic and know I make very few beyond 20-25 feet. I also don't measure putts but I have a good idea if I can read it right and give it a chance or it's just too long and I try and lag it close, sometimes they will fall in. I'm a 10 cap, so not a world class putter haha.

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27 minutes ago, DShepley said:

I haven't seen Monte's thing no but I'll check it out.  The reaction to a line is something I learned from reading Rotella.  I wasn't a good putter and learned to be one.  The first thing I did was learn to develop a stroke that hits short putts on my line.  The second thing I did was start reading putts from the hole backwards, started paying attention to other people's ball when it got to the hole to confirm my read, and become much more reactionary.  I pick a line that I think the ball needs to roll on to make it into the hole, speed is factored into this line.  Next I pick an intermediate target close to my ball that would allow my ball to get to the apex of the break.  I then line my putter up to the intermediate target, take my stance, look to the hole and when my gaze returns to the ball, I react.  I also rarely practice long putts and spend the majority of my time running the circle drill inside 5 feet,...confidence is built by seeing yourself fill the hole up, not by missing putts, (Rotella).  Another thing to mention, is that most amateurs under-read break because they line up to the apex of the putt not realizing that there is break between their ball and the apex,...you have to pick a line that allows your ball to roll over the apex point.

All makes sense and definitely agree with you about the apex thing. You need to aim at the tangent to the path at the ball, not at the apex. 

 

Incidentally, I do also agree that lots of people's putting issues with line and speed are the same (inconsistent stroke and strike). 

 

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I hit most everything outside 10 feet with lag pace I feel, but I'm still trying to make it. I have found better success dying it pretty close to the hole. I start moving to strictly lag mode on putts that I know can get away from me if I'm not careful, or putts that are so long that I'm not really even thinking about making them. 

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2 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Respectfully, I don't think that article disagrees with what I said at all. 

 

I'm speaking to intent and effort--to making sure that you approach every putt with the INTENT to hit the hole rather than the INTENT to get it close. 

 

Every putt is a combination of read and strike. 

 

If you're facing a 30 foot putt and you're 1-2 degrees off on the intended start line, AND you read the break perfectly, you'll be about 1 foot left/right of target. If you get your distance control correct, you're still in great shape with that putt. To be within 2" of center cup, the maximum necessary to go in, your face control on your putter has to be within about 1/3 degree left/right of intended line, and that's a remarkable amount of control.  

 

But reading break isn't automatic. How much dispersion on putts is not caused by strike, but caused by read?

 

If you're great at reading break (most high caps aren't), on a 30 foot breaking putt what does that give you... A dispersion of +/- another 1 feet? 

 

If you slack off on reading the break because you're prioritizing speed control, what are the odds that you add another foot of dispersion to your outcome? 

 

+/- up to 2 degrees face control plus +/- up to 2 feet of misread break and pretty soon your dispersion starts adding up. 

 

On a 30 foot putt I agree that most golfers cannot reasonably control the face enough to reliably make that putt, even on a perfectly level green with zero break. But we don't play perfectly level greens with zero break, so I would say golfers should prioritize reading the green for line and speed with equal weights.

It does disagree with what you wrote. You said equal weight on all putts and the article indicate an emphasis for line on short putts and an emphasis on weight for long ones. That's not equal.

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8 minutes ago, Luv2kruz said:

It does disagree with what you wrote. You said equal weight on all putts and the article indicate an emphasis for line on short putts and an emphasis on weight for long ones. That's not equal.

 

Of course, you have to understand the nuance. For example:

 

Putting to Make: There’s a distance range where line matters much more than speed. From these distances, golfers need to be focused on making the putt, which means they need to get the ball to the hole. Leaving the putt short on these putts is a serious error.

 

Sounds to me like distance control here is VERY important. Doesn't matter what line you putt on if you don't get the ball to the hole, right? Or if you hit it with enough force to go 10 feet past, because it'll hop right over the cup even if struck to the center. 

 

You may have more margin for error on distance control here than line, because a putt that would stop 6" past the hole will go in just as easily as a putt that would stop 18" past the hole if you're in the center of the cup. 

 

But you can miss a putt by getting either line or speed wrong, so you still need to get both right. 

 

Putts to 2-Putt:  There’s also a distance range where speed matters much more than line. On these putts, it’s not very important that you get the line exactly right, because it’s unlikely that you’re going to make the putt. What matters is that you give yourself a realistic chance to 2-putt.  Getting your putt to the hole is far less of a priority.

 

Sounds to me like you want to make sure you don't hit the putt hole-high, but 5 feet left or right of the cup. 

 

If you read it well, and strike it on your intended line, you have more margin for error on line than speed, because you're not expecting to make the putt; just to get it close. And hey, we're probably not often talking about putts that break 10-12 feet or more, which is WHY there's more margin for error on line; it's because the break on a putt that breaks 2 feet is a heck of a lot easier to read than on one breaking 15 feet or with a double break.

 

But "close" is just as important left-right as it is long-short, so you have to get both right. 

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3 hours ago, MtlJayMan said:

Just food for thought (and no deep analysis into this, so take it with a grain of salt)…

 

Might we be looking at this all wrong when asking how does the high capper reduces his 3putt occurrence?

·         Let’s look at Tour data from where the breakeven point is; ok it’s 32 feet…

·         Let’s see from where they’re automatic; got it, 3 feet

·         Let’s combine these two (without looking at compound effects) and draw a conclusion that high capper needs to get those longer putts to a 3 feet circle – and they’ll be golden, bu-bye 3 putts!

 

When looking at the average strokes from different distances and different skill levels, we see that:

·         Tour pros make as many putts from 10 feet as high cappers do from 3 feet (which hovers at around 40%!)… and we can easily see that our previous conclusion is flawed; high cappers aren’t making these 3-4 footer nearly as much as pros are -> they aren’t 3putts free if they get those long ones to that 3 feet circle

·         Same can be said with Tour pros from 6 feet and single capper from 3 feet;

·         Same can be said with Tour pros from 20 feet and high capper from 6 feet!

 

The first bullet is astonishing, and gives the Tour pros a much wider radius to convert the long ones into 2putts…

 

So, shouldn’t the focus be, to help high cappers reduce the 3putt occurrence, to practice the hell from 3-5-10 feet and try and get as good from this range as Tour pros… and you’ll solve your lag putting issues as a byproduct : with obviously a better putting stroke, distance control, line reading – compound effects…

Practice everything but to get better at lag putting you have to......practice lag putting.

 

Specificity rules all. 

 

3-8 feet and 30+ are the most important things to practice. I don't think becoming great from 3-8 automatically means your lag putting is going to improve. 

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I think a player needs a make'em all attitude to make less than 30 putts per round.  That way you'll improve lag putting because the ball will end up inches from the hole very often and when you get 4 feet past or short because of any reason, you'll be confident enough to make your decent amount of putts.  

 

Good putting comes from confidence mostly and some decent technique to square face to the target.  Usually poor putters overanalyse and lose touch and feel.  

 

I'm not sure if stats is a good starting point to improve your putting, especially because it can be a barrier to leave it closer or hole it out.  Like they say above, the best putters always play to make all the putts.  And the best thing about putting is you can become a good putter faster than a solid driver or iron player.  

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7 minutes ago, pinhigh27 said:

Practice everything but to get better at lag putting you have to......practice lag putting.

 

Specificity rules all. 

 

3-8 feet and 30+ are the most important things to practice. I don't think becoming great from 3-8 automatically means your lag putting is going to improve. 

I disagree, you can learn enough about pace staying around 10 feet. I'm telling you, your brain is an amazing thing if you stay out of it's way. Hit 50 putts before a round from inside 5 feet and you won't need to pay much attention to lag putting speed, you'll just start to trust yourself. 

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11 minutes ago, DShepley said:

I disagree, you can learn enough about pace staying around 10 feet. I'm telling you, your brain is an amazing thing if you stay out of it's way. Hit 50 putts before a round from inside 5 feet and you won't need to pay much attention to lag putting speed, you'll just start to trust yourself. 

Putting often requires different practice, depending on how you're  performing.  There are times when you need to check on your 3/5 foot putts, some other times you want to reinforce 10/15 footers because you feel you can make more than now and finally sometimes your lag putting becomes stale out of the blue and you need to go back to swinging through to 30/40 footers.

 

I went to the course today and there was my buddy and his son, both low single digits working their a..es out on the putting green.  They went through all their repertoire in 20 minutes.  

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4 minutes ago, DShepley said:

I disagree, you can learn enough about pace staying around 10 feet. I'm telling you, your brain is an amazing thing if you stay out of it's way. Hit 50 putts before a round from inside 5 feet and you won't need to pay much attention to lag putting speed, you'll just start to trust yourself. 

 

I agree with this and in fact never hit putts of more than 10 feet or so to a hole during practice.  I want my database of visual images to have more 'video' of putts made than missed.  I'm just mentally weak I guess...

 

My 'speed' work is done to discolored areas on the green, the collar, an old hole location, a tee, a plastic ball mark, etc.  In every case I'm trying to hit the ball to that EXACT location.  I recognize I will rarely accomplish that but won't give myself the luxury of saying, "Oh well, missed again, but I'm still good enough, smart enough, and doggone it, people like me..."

 

As a general rule, assuming there isn't tremendous break, if most balls end up a bit inside of 10% of the total distance from the hole in any direction ( e.g., ~4 ft for a 50 footer - both measurements guestimated...) then I go back to working on the putts that really matter - the 4-6 footers.

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3 minutes ago, Aviador Naval said:

 

I agree with this and in fact never hit putts of more than 10 feet or so to a hole during practice.  I want my database of visual images to have more 'video' of putts made than missed.  I'm just mentally weak I guess...

 

My 'speed' work is done to discolored areas on the green, the collar, an old hole location, a tee, a plastic ball mark, etc.  In every case I'm trying to hit the ball to that EXACT location.  I recognize I will rarely accomplish that but won't give myself the luxury of saying, "Oh well, missed again, but I'm still good enough, smart enough, and doggone it, people like me..."

 

As a general rule, assuming there isn't tremendous break, if most balls end up a bit inside of 10% of the total distance from the hole in any direction ( e.g., ~4 ft for a 50 footer - both measurements guestimated...) then I go back to working on the putts that really matter - the 4-6 footers.

Same! You've read some Rotella!

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13 minutes ago, pinhigh27 said:

Practice everything but to get better at lag putting you have to......practice lag putting.

 

Specificity rules all. 

 

3-8 feet and 30+ are the most important things to practice. I don't think becoming great from 3-8 automatically means your lag putting is going to improve. 

It is not automatic, but getting good at short ones it definitely helps long ones. I would say many poor lag putters are not good because they mishit the ball and it doesn't roll true, which makes speed control impossible to hone in since its hard to decouple if you mishit it or just judged the speed wrong. Rolling short ones pure and on line eliminates one of those variables 

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2 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

It is not automatic, but getting good at short ones it definitely helps long ones. I would say many poor lag putters are not good because they mishit the ball and it doesn't roll true, which makes speed control impossible to hone in since its hard to decouple if you mishit it or just judged the speed wrong. Rolling short ones pure and on line eliminates one of those variables 

Exactly!

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Just now, Krt22 said:

It is not automatic, but getting good at short ones it definitely helps long ones. I would say many poor lag putters are not good because they mishit the ball and it doesn't roll true, which makes speed control impossible to hone in since its hard to decouple if you mishit it or just judged the speed wrong. Rolling short ones pure and on line eliminates one of those variables 

Agreed. Better strategy doesn't mitigate poor mechanics.

 

I'm working on a modified ruler drill most days on an indoor putting mat. I realized nothing I do regarding analyzing line or speed will matter if the putt doesn't even go where I intend, and first things first are starting it on the aiming line. 

 

I've only been working that for a few weeks, and that coupled with pacing off all longer putts on the course has made my lag putting one of my strengths in my most recent round. 

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1 hour ago, pinhigh27 said:

Practice everything but to get better at lag putting you have to......practice lag putting.

 

Specificity rules all. 

 

3-8 feet and 30+ are the most important things to practice. I don't think becoming great from 3-8 automatically means your lag putting is going to improve. 

Agree on principles... but I think we need to define: being good at lag putting; if that means 3putts avoidance from 30ft+... then, by definition, becoming great at 3-8 footers  automatically means you are great at lag putting...

 

Otherwise, as indicated previously, high cappers make 40% of their 3-5 footer... and if definition of being good at lag putting is: getting it relatively close on the first putt... even if they get all their 30+ footers in that range - they 3putts more often than they 2putts...

 

 

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1 hour ago, pinhigh27 said:

Practice everything but to get better at lag putting you have to......practice lag putting.

 

Specificity rules all. 

 

3-8 feet and 30+ are the most important things to practice. I don't think becoming great from 3-8 automatically means your lag putting is going to improve. 

Yes, I agree that lag putting is a unique skill and requires a different mindset and technical skillset. To be good at lag putting you have to practice lag putting skills. Being a great short range putter doesn't fix lag putting issues. Those are different putting skills.

 

Regarding ranges of importance, I think its different for each level of golfer and one size does not fit all. In the Stickney article I posted, he states:

  1. One-putting more often from the statistical distances that makes sense to your level of play.
  2. Eliminating three putts from the statistical distances that make sense to your level of play.

That means the each person has a different 'one putt' range and 'three putt range' that they are working on. 8 ft+ and 30ft+ may only be appropriate for a more proficient golfer, but may be beyond the capability of the high handicapper. In the article he suggests high handicappers 6-10 feet and 20 feet.

 

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